Transgender Woman Sues CrossFit
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When you weigh that against the choice to institutionally shun someone because of their sexuality (something they have no control over) it seems quite petty.
I agree wholeheartedly. Institutionally shunning someone for their sexuality is indeed petty and it is discrimination. However, CrossFit did not single this person out for her sexuality. She was removed from competition due to the very strong case that she has an advantage over female opponents for having spent about 28 years developing as a man. Even if she no longer has the real time advantageous effects of muscle recovery and growth from male levels of testosterone, it is almost certain that she is taller with broader shoulders and bigger lung capacity than had she never had developed with male levels of those anabolic hormones.0 -
Why can't she look up the work outs, time herself and see where she stacks up?
If the games are privately owned, it's the owner's decision how they interpret THEIR rules. She has the CHOICE not to participate.0 -
Her status as a transgender woman is part of her sexuality and is the root of why she was kicked out. I also take issue with there being a "strong case" for her having an advantage given that the research has been at best inconclusive. Again, I would rather they error on the side of inclusiveness than being narrow minded. As for her shoulders/lung capacity those are genetic traits which could not be helped. I'm sure there are many high level female athletes who have broader shoulders and greater lung capacities than your average woman, perhaps even more so than Chloie Jonsson who is only 5'4" so I don't think that your perceived advantage is really significant at all.
I agree wholeheartedly. Institutionally shunning someone for their sexuality is indeed petty and it is discrimination. However, CrossFit did not single this person out for her sexuality. She was removed from competition due to the very strong case that she has an advantage over female opponents for having spent about 28 years developing as a man. Even if she no longer has the real time advantageous effects of muscle recovery and growth from male levels of testosterone, it is almost certain that she is taller with broader shoulders and bigger lung capacity than had she never had developed with male levels of those anabolic hormones.When you weigh that against the choice to institutionally shun someone because of their sexuality (something they have no control over) it seems quite petty.
I don't know if CrossFit Inc wholly owns the Games themselves but the main sponsor (Reebok) is owned by a public company (Adidas) FWIW. It is a bad look, that's for sure.Why can't she look up the work outs, time herself and see where she stacks up?
If the games are privately owned, it's the owner's decision how they interpret THEIR rules. She has the CHOICE not to participate.0 -
Here is a newspaper article with a lot of pics. I have to say she doesn't look like she would have a distinct physical advantage over other women...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576016/Transgender-woman-sues-CrossFit-competition.html0 -
I understand CF's argument, I just don't think it's going to work. If the Olympics allow transgendered athletes, CF is going to have a tough time explaining why they can't.0
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The arguments about advantages because of development during puberty and prior to gender reassignment surgery and testosterone suppression don't seem to hold water.
I think that it is extremely premature to make that judgement. This is an emotionally and even politically charged situation. No one wants to limit the rights of citizens through discrimination. But here is the problem. In this instance, if we snap to a decision without full scientific investigation because it isn't politically correct, the outcome is that it could interfere with fair play in sport. The fact is, there is not a large body of scientific research on whether the transgendered have an advantage or not. The arguments for and against both have merit but when we are looking at just a few cases over several decades, the evidence has very little scientific weight.
It appears that quite a bit of evidence exists from the other posts. It is not Crossfit specific but has been dealt with by other sports organizations for a very long time.
CF is going to end up reversing course or getting whipped in court on this one.0 -
I watched a documentary years ago about a Canadian Mountain Biker M-F who was appealing to be classed as a woman in a competition. Evidence actually showed she didn't have an advantage being born a man due to the hormone therapy that she underwent (so no more testosterone) if anything when she first underwent therapy she had a disadvantage as any excess muscle she had previously carried turned to fat. CrossFit are absolutely in the wrong with this one, they should let her compete as a woman, not exclude based on outdated values and they should be working to discourage this type of discrimination.0
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Here is a newspaper article with a lot of pics. I have to say she doesn't look like she would have a distinct physical advantage over other women...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576016/Transgender-woman-sues-CrossFit-competition.html
The Daily Mail's status as a newspaper is highly debatable ;-) By all means look at the pictures but don't believe a word they write...0 -
CrossFit tends to act without thinking everything through. That may have been ok when they were a small business but they are huge now and it just is not appropriate. If they just let her compete I doubt it would have been a big deal. The chances that she gets to regionals are slim not to mention the chances of even going to the games is even a sliver of that. If CrossFit just let it go, it would not have even materially impacted the outcome of the competition, and regarding the precedent, this did not come up for 7 years so why are they concerned that it will surface more often?0
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CrossFit tends to act without thinking everything through. That may have been ok when they were a small business but they are huge now and it just is not appropriate. If they just let her compete I doubt it would have been a big deal. The chances that she gets to regionals are slim not to mention the chances of even going to the games is even a sliver of that. If CrossFit just let it go, it would not have even materially impacted the outcome of the competition, and regarding the precedent, this did not come up for 7 years so why are they concerned that it will surface more often?
wouldn't have affected anything this time around. but in 5 years? when perhaps several transgendered women are competing? and a couple MIGHT actually be good enough to go to the games? then what...0 -
The sensible thing would have been to let her compete now and then write a policy later.0
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CrossFit tends to act without thinking everything through. That may have been ok when they were a small business but they are huge now and it just is not appropriate. If they just let her compete I doubt it would have been a big deal. The chances that she gets to regionals are slim not to mention the chances of even going to the games is even a sliver of that. If CrossFit just let it go, it would not have even materially impacted the outcome of the competition, and regarding the precedent, this did not come up for 7 years so why are they concerned that it will surface more often?
wouldn't have affected anything this time around. but in 5 years? when perhaps several transgendered women are competing? and a couple MIGHT actually be good enough to go to the games? then what...
Then good for CrossFit, good for the transgendered women competing, good for equality.
I really don't get why so many people are hung up on this. At all. If the IOC and the NCAA can establish guidelines for transgendered athletes, there is no valid reason for CrossFit (or any other athletic organization) not to follow suit.0 -
Your response was fine and dandy but was completely irrelevant to the previous post's argument and to my response.0
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Legal or not she's got a natural born muscular advantage. Btw, 151 is fairly heavy for a woman who is 5'4, but it's a pretty average weight for a man of the same height. I'm 5'4 and 115#. That extra muscle weight is natural for her.
You would be one of the smallest women at my box. Our top woman is 5'5" 175 and most of the rest of the female top 20% are about 5'4" to 5'5", 135-160.0 -
I saw this come thru on my TMZ feed and just had to share... thoughts?
http://www.tmz.com/2014/05/19/crossfit-transgender-chloie-jonnson/0 -
Seems like Crossfit seems to enjoy shooting itself in the foot in regards to this case.
Simple redirect from her attorney. "So, the entire point of Crossfit is systematically improving yourself across a wide range of modalities, correct?"
"Yes"
"So you are saying that even though she was on the lower end of the performance spectrum in 2013 that this could not have changed going forward as she continued to work on her strength and skill in relation to Crossfit?"
They are going to lose big here, and of no good reason except institutional arrogance. They need to get a few women into the top ranks of their organization to pop their bubble and talk some common sense.0 -
I saw this come thru on my TMZ feed and just had to share... thoughts?
http://www.tmz.com/2014/05/19/crossfit-transgender-chloie-jonnson/
It doesn't matter because you're crap anyway? What a horrible thing to say, and against the 'community spirit' that seems prevalent at most boxes and is the reason so many people like it.0
