Dead legs?
DonPendergraft
Posts: 520 Member
I don't know that there is any cure for this so it may just me whining. But there are many days when I get out the door early to run (e.g. this morning at 5am) I just can't run at a good pace. I use my Garmin with my heart rate monitor. When I feel good I push the pace a bit and my heart rate averages about 150 (I'm 49 years old for perspective) and I run at about a 12 min pace. Yes I'm out of shape! But other days (like today) I can't seem to make my legs go and I plod at a 17 minute shuffle and my HR averages 114. The legs feel dead. My cardio isn't holding me back as 114 is pretty low for running. But I just can't seem to make my legs work so well. This seems to happen more often on early morning runs. When I don't have to get up really early and hit the trails at say 8:30 or so, I seem to do much better. I can never predict when it will strike, but it happens more often than it doesn't. Does anyone have any suggestions about how I can get my legs to better bounce back and recover between runs? I'm hoping that losing weight will help. The legs will take less of a pounding if I could run at 180 versus my present 211 (I was 220). Maybe I should buy some Hoka's to ease the pounding. I don't know. There's probably not an answer to this, but I figured what the heck! Thanks all. 
0
Replies
-
A couple of things. How often are you running or attempting to run? Every day, every other day? Your post suggests that you suspect you might be having difficulty recovering between runs (and you do need to do that).
Does it ever occur later in the day? What kind of warmup cycle do you go through?
How about in the days after certain meals?
There are days when I just can't seem to make any headway (speed). I have less of those (now) because my body has become accustomed to a training routine that includes a lot of variation in distance.
Here's the thing: your cardiovascular system responds very, very quickly to stress (training). It's one reason when you start running or serious cardio walking you can see results, in just a few weeks. You heart and lungs just start building capacity.
One minor problem: major muscle groups don't build anywhere near this fast. For them, the timing is measured in months, not days and weeks. So our hearts, lungs and brains think we can take off. We can't. And if you are following some sort of training program and look carefully, if it's worth anything, there is never any step change more than about 10% unless it has a lot of rest and recovery built into. It will also include variable distances and variable paces to allow your systems to be stressed and then to recover. Its the recovery that seems to be key.
Oh, it gets worse. Your skeletal system (joints, cartilage, tendons) take even longer to adapt. Maybe a year. It's all about blood flow.Those systems with the highest blood flow adapt the quickest.
You are correct that less weight will also help. I dropped from 252 down to 228 with a moderate amount of walking. I dropped from 228 to 190 with a much more serious application of walking (~10 mile/day). I stayed at that weight for about 1 year (though the body I had at the beginning of the year and the one at the end were completely different: thinner, less fat, more muscle) before the final push to my maintenance level.
By the time I started running (again), I could walk continuously and fast (4.2 mph) for at least 4 hours. I couldn't run fast at first, though I could run 6 miles at a 12:00/mile pace (HRM reported about 165-174 depending upon terrain).
I took on the challenge of training for a marathon over 26 weeks. Ran 2 days during the week for 30-45 minutes. The weekend provided the time for the progressive buildup in endurance distance. Let me tell you, those rest days were important and very different from how I walked daily. But it was the slow progression (and the fact that I use Jeff Galloway's run/walk/run technique) that got me to where I am today.
Two marathons completed since Novmeber 2013 (5:10-5:12 times)
One half-marathon two weeks ago (2:13:47)
Two 5K's: September 2013 time= 28:03, March 2014 time= 25:32
Next marathon in a little over three weeks and I'm looking to drop under the 5 hour pace assuming the weather and everything else drops into place.
There is probably a cure, but it tends to take time.0 -
First, thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response. I appreciate it! I will try to address some of your questions. I really let myself go and haven't really run much in the last 2 years. Just off and on since my last 50K trail race in April of 2012 when I hurt my knees. I think I'm healed up and want to try it again, but at a lighter weight. My goal is to try to go long at 180 instead of running distance at 200 like before (or at 211 where I am now!).
Currently I am running 5 days a week. Since I'm just getting back into it, there is no distance. Just 3 or 4 miles a day depending on the day. I have a schedule I've mapped out and I will progressively build my mileage up. Also for reference, this is nothing really new to me. I ran about 1,600 miles in 2011 and it was happening to me then as well.
As to whether it happens later in the day, no not really. But almost all of my running is early morning except on weekends. Then it's later and I generally feel good. Or I'm running with a group and I'm forced to keep up. But it has happened before where on a weekend during the day my legs feel dead, but it's much more rare to feel this way at that time. I've not noticed anything regarding meals. I generally run fasted. I just get up and run. As for warmups, what are those? Heh. No warmups. I just take off. If I ever stretch, it's when I'm done. When I analyze my pace, I do start slower so I guess that's my warm up. I generally get faster the longer I run. Weird.
As for what you say about my body taking time to catch up with my cardio, I do think that you are correct and I will have to be careful. I do really want to start running longer. I just lost interest in running when I couldn't go far because of injury. So I'm anxious to get back to it. I've only run 1 marathon and that was in 2004. It was in about the same time you ran it. I'm nowhere near that now I'm sure. But I hope I can get back to it. I'm really exited about getting back on the trails for some long runs again.
Thank you for your comments on this. I hope to get it sorted because a 5 minute variation on pace seems a tad extreme.0 -
This one really isn't complicated. Your body is dictating to you what pace it can run based on your level of muscular fatigue. Listen to your body. If it wants to run slow, run slow. There is no need to "push it" unless you have a plan with a specific training goal in mind. Like, today I'm going to do work at my AT. Another day, I may do something to help with running economy and form. Most days, most miles, like 85% of them, the goal is to build aerobic base and RECOVER. This means running easy and listening to your body.
For example, my easy run pace ranges from 8:30 per mile, up to 11:00 per mile depending on how fatigued I am on a given day. I don't fight it. I don't fret it. I just run it and log it.0 -
@cyprian64
So, it sounds to me that you may be running past your current capacity and that shows up as dead legs. I would consider losing two days a week of running for several weeks and just go with 3 days per week. And on the running days, run a specific distance (say 4 miles) and see what pace that allows me to go. Its hard to make exhausted muscles work and even the muscles that you rely upon after those primary ones are exhausted.
On those rest days maybe walk or cross-train. While walking uses some of the same muscles as running, you use them in a different way. You might find that your dead legs get better. But be careful adding back more volume of running before you are really ready.0 -
I agree with STrooper. If you are coming back from a long layoff and you're having "dead legs", I'd consider backing off on a couple of days of running and adding some cross-training. Are you doing any kind of strength training? Riding a bike? Walking? Swimming? Other things? I like to dance, so usually one of my XT days is doing that. I also enjoy yoga.
You can always build back up to running 5x a week, but it sounds like it's not working for you right now.0 -
This seems to happen more often on early morning runs. When I don't have to get up really early and hit the trails at say 8:30 or so, I seem to do much better.
For what it's worth, I am faster in the afternoon and evenings. My early morning runs are always slower than my later runs. It just takes my me and my legs extra time to get going in the morning. For me, part of it is physical, just stiff and groggy in the early morning but a larger part of it is mental. Sometimes is just harder to get "me" going in the morning.
Start slow and as your legs loosen see if you can pick up the pace, if you can great, if you can't just go with it.0 -
This one really isn't complicated. Your body is dictating to you what pace it can run based on your level of muscular fatigue. Listen to your body. If it wants to run slow, run slow. There is no need to "push it" unless you have a plan with a specific training goal in mind. Like, today I'm going to do work at my AT. Another day, I may do something to help with running economy and form. Most days, most miles, like 85% of them, the goal is to build aerobic base and RECOVER. This means running easy and listening to your body.
For example, my easy run pace ranges from 8:30 per mile, up to 11:00 per mile depending on how fatigued I am on a given day. I don't fight it. I don't fret it. I just run it and log it.
Typical of me to overthink something pretty simple! I do think that it's most likely my body rebelling at the abrupt change in the amount of exercise it's seeing. I will just listen to my body and go with the flow. I do have a 50K circled, but it's still at least 30 weeks away (late October) so I have plenty of time to ease into it. It's just that I have to fight my desire to do more distance and to run faster. I just need to be smart about it.0 -
@cyprian64
So, it sounds to me that you may be running past your current capacity and that shows up as dead legs. I would consider losing two days a week of running for several weeks and just go with 3 days per week. And on the running days, run a specific distance (say 4 miles) and see what pace that allows me to go. Its hard to make exhausted muscles work and even the muscles that you rely upon after those primary ones are exhausted.
On those rest days maybe walk or cross-train. While walking uses some of the same muscles as running, you use them in a different way. You might find that your dead legs get better. But be careful adding back more volume of running before you are really ready.
I do have a nice new elliptical that I bought for the family. I don't use it because I prefer running. Would that count as cross training? It would still tax my legs, but I guess it's a matter of degree. They would get exercised, but without any pounding. Perhaps substitute a couple running days with elliptical until my body starts to better adapt to what I'm asking of it?0
