The Winter Soldier
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Considering Fury's 'situation' not that far into the movie there really wouldn't have been time or anyone else to call on any of the other Avengers.
That's what I thought too.0 -
Saw it for my birthday yesterday - it was pretty good although the Winter Soldier was pretty flat as a character. The strike team leader had a better part in my opinion, or just acted better.
Also my wife raised a good point - where does Black Widow keep her straighteners because I don't know many single men, let alone Falcon who have straighteners.0 -
Happy Belated, mruntidy!
The Winter Soldier was probably the least explored character, you're right, but I suspect we'll get more on him in the next one.
Qwee "straightener"?0 -
Sebastian Stan is under contract for 9 Marvel films, so we'll definitely get to see more of Winter Soldier/Bucky!
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Hoo boy, am I the only person who didn't like it?
*spoiler alert*, just in case...
It started off so promising with the topical theme of data protection, but it really, really annoyed me that the main plot point turned out to be that of course Americans would never be that evil independently, it's still Nazis all these years later. Communist Nazis, if the red star is anything to go by. So just a giant propagandafest. I suppose that's Captain America's theme anyway, but come on!0 -
Actually, I felt that way a little about the first CA film, but this one felt different to me. The point that this film (and some other recent stories) seemed to be making is one that I've always felt was true... that the urge to dominate one's fellow man is opportunistic and a common failing of our species, and one against which we have to remain continually vigilant or else it will keep happening over and over again. The Nazis didn't invent it, although they have become an arguable poster child for it. The callback to Nazis in this film is natural because that was the era in which we met Cap in the first film, and here in the second one it's decades later and instead of fighting the spread of this kind of menace, the powerful in America have picked up the fœtid baton and decided it's not all that unreasonable if you look at it a certain way and of course, just because the Nazis let it get ugly doesn't mean we have to, etc. etc. (ETA: think of Old Georgie in Cloud Atlas, whispering and cajoling and enabling the worst that is in people to try and deter them from being fully human, fully themselves.)
Cap didn't just keep taking orders, he took a stand, and in doing so became an example of the kind of patriotism I can actually get behind; the man who keeps standing for what his country should be instead of mindlessly defending whatever it is or threatens to become.
Not sure if this is making sense as I had to take a back pill with dinner, but thought I'd try anyway.0 -
Sebastian Stan is under contract for 9 Marvel films, so we'll definitely get to see more of Winter Soldier/Bucky!
Nine, really?!? Well, works for me. I love where they left his character in this one, looking forward to the next.0 -
Happy Belated, mruntidy!
The Winter Soldier was probably the least explored character, you're right, but I suspect we'll get more on him in the next one.
Qwee "straightener"?
Oh thanks
And the scene at Falcons house - they both have a half assed wash then shes sat on the bed towel drying her hair - next scene it's perfectly straight. Where were the continuity team on that one!0 -
Actually, I felt that way a little about the first CA film, but this one felt different to me. The point that this film (and some other recent stories) seemed to be making is one that I've always felt was true... that the urge to dominate one's fellow man is opportunistic and a common failing of our species, and one against which we have to remain continually vigilant or else it will keep happening over and over again. The Nazis didn't invent it, although they have become an arguable poster child for it. The callback to Nazis in this film is natural because that was the era in which we met Cap in the first film, and here in the second one it's decades later and instead of fighting the spread of this kind of menace, the powerful in America have picked up the fœtid baton and decided it's not all that unreasonable if you look at it a certain way and of course, just because the Nazis let it get ugly doesn't mean we have to, etc. etc. (ETA: think of Old Georgie in Cloud Atlas, whispering and cajoling and enabling the worst that is in people to try and deter them from being fully human, fully themselves.)
Cap didn't just keep taking orders, he took a stand, and in doing so became an example of the kind of patriotism I can actually get behind; the man who keeps standing for what his country should be instead of mindlessly defending whatever it is or threatens to become.
Not sure if this is making sense as I had to take a back pill with dinner, but thought I'd try anyway.
Well, yes, I agree that's the good patriotism, but it would be a much more powerful message if he were indeed taking a stand against his own people, rather than the kind of cheaty shortcut of "Nazis" - that's lazy shorthand. And it leaves them a way to keep the "real" Americans pure. Which rankles a bit. Maybe I see it differently not being from the US?0 -
I mean, if he's really a superpatriotic superhuman, let him do something about Guantanamo...0
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Depends how you view it, I would say the Marvel franchise is trying to keep things fairly high level when it comes to issues like terrorism. If he's that superpatriotic he would surely believe his government is doing the right thing otherwise he's stepping into antihero territory.0
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Maybe I need to see it again to understand how you might see it as a campaign against just a small enclave of Nazis and no "real Americans", because I didn't see it that way at all.
But yes, being form the US I would see it differently, and I am hoping you are able to allow for the possibility that it's not necessarily because I've been "brainwashed". Not everyone here is a kneejerk nationalist. Nothing short of complete self-excoriation for simply being American is good enough for some people and I hope you're not one of them. It is actually all right, and I would suggest constructive, for those Americans who have been dismayed by what America has been doing to once again have an *authentically* positive image to embrace. That is why I found it so refreshing and heartening, and a nice contrast to the first CA movie.
As for "shutting down Guantanamo"... he's one fricken guy, and it took most of the movie for him and his team to substantially inconvenience a crypto-fascist corporate empire... IMO the kind of enemy the whole planet should be paying close attention to. As the allegory for this hero's mythical journey, I thought it was a useful and timely choice.
It sounds to me like you resent the movie for the enjoyment you *imagine* it provided for the more caricatured Americans you dislike. And if that's the case, maybe from where you stand it will not be possible for you to see the value this movie might have apart from sheer entertainment.0 -
Plus it was all to no avail with the final cut scene during the credits cut off one head and all that0
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It sounds to me like you resent the movie for the enjoyment you *imagine* it provided for the more caricatured Americans you dislike. And if that's the case, maybe from where you stand it will not be possible for you to see the value this movie might have apart from sheer entertainment.
Hey, I lived in the US for years. I've experienced the culture there, and found it creepy. All this flag waving.
I agree that it's good to portray that unthinking belief in your government is not the way forward, but I think it would have a lot more value as a true "enemy from within" film than taking the easy way out by saying they've been infiltrated by outsiders. Nazis are lazy scriptwriting, there's enough of that kind of thing still going on in the world without it explicitly coming from them, which is the scary thing.0 -
It sounds to me like you resent the movie for the enjoyment you *imagine* it provided for the more caricatured Americans you dislike. And if that's the case, maybe from where you stand it will not be possible for you to see the value this movie might have apart from sheer entertainment.
Hey, I lived in the US for years. I've experienced the culture there, and found it creepy. All this flag waving.
I agree that it's good to portray that unthinking belief in your government is not the way forward, but I think it would have a lot more value as a true "enemy from within" film than taking the easy way out by saying they've been infiltrated by outsiders. Nazis are lazy scriptwriting, there's enough of that kind of thing still going on in the world without it explicitly coming from them, which is the scary thing.
I will probably end up seeing it again at some point and will try to see what you're talking about, but for now I have to just disagree with you on the idea that the Nazis in TWS represented some kind of easy out for America to keep its emotional hands clean. I agree that Nazis are invoked cheaply a lot of the time, it's the modern "beasting" (using any old alphabet to prove that someone is the antichrist based on the numerology of a leader's name, etc.) . But in this case it was a fully contextual choice, because Captain America emerged in the era of the Nazis and also for its allegorical value. There were, and probably still are, plenty of Germans who could not believe such a thing could happen in their country, both those who went along and those who resisted. They weren't paying attention and didn't recognize the warning signs of an internal poison until it was too late. I do not believe the Nazis were used in this movie they way they were when Cap was created in 1941. Just because the comic has its roots in propaganda (propaganda that was appropriate and unfortunately necessary then, BTW, and wasn't just about glorifying the US) doesn't mean that's all it is now.0 -
Happy Belated, mruntidy!
The Winter Soldier was probably the least explored character, you're right, but I suspect we'll get more on him in the next one.
Qwee "straightener"?
Oh thanks
And the scene at Falcons house - they both have a half assed wash then shes sat on the bed towel drying her hair - next scene it's perfectly straight. Where were the continuity team on that one!
I don't recall that scene, might have been noticing someone/something else. Kind of thought automatic and effortless hotness was one of Natasha's superpowers, so it might not have jumped out at me 0 -
Speaking of countries, this came out on the interwebz a while back. Apparently Cap's "to do" list varied depending on where the movie was playing. Thai food and everything below was always the same but there were some differences.
USA. This is the one I saw in the movie theater. also noticed this was the only list that had a line through Star Wars.
UK verison. Image is a bit cut off at the top but it reads "Sherlock BBC"
Russia. lol @ disco.
South Korea. Dance dance revolution. XD
France. Daft Punk and Fifth Element? win.
Italy
Mexico
Spain.
Australia
Brazil. can't make out the top of this list.
also, at a panel some where when they were promoting the movie the actors were asked....
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Oh the journal thing is so cool. But I'd have to google some of that stuff!
I had to google Redtube. Not glad I did LOL.0 -
That's a neat little easter egg!0
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The Captain sure fell a lot. Down through a building, several times off an airship, finally into the Potomac. If they did not kow what to do next, they kicked him off something really tall.0
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Oh the journal thing is so cool. But I'd have to google some of that stuff!
I had to google Redtube. Not glad I did LOL.
You had to google redtube, you mean it's not in your history?0 -
Nope, I had no idea what it was
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