10K strategy?

davemunger

On the spur of the moment I signed up for a 10K on Saturday April 19.

Just thinking out loud about strategy here, feel free to chime in!

It's been nearly a year since I ran a 10k, and that was on a muggy summer day (the Peachtree in Atlanta July 4). Assuming the weather is good I think I can do better than that day, except for a few pesky details:

1. The past 3 months have been focused on endurance for ultramarathons, not speed
2. I gained some weight in that time
3. In NC, in the spring, it can easily be hot and muggy, and I haven't had any time to become acclimatized to the heat.

So, assuming we have good weather, I think my strategy will be to go out at near-PR pace. I feel like my PR (39:18 on the same course I'll be running next week) is a little soft compared to what I did last fall in 5Ks (17:49 on a flat course). If you plug my 5K PR into McMillanRunning.com, it projects a 37:00 10k. I don't feel like I'm in that good of shape -- that would require running a 5:57 pace for all 6.2 miles.

A 6:20, however, might be doable, and that works out to just about my PR. If I'm feeling good at the end I can pick it up and definitely PR, and if not, I can probably still limp in under 40 minutes.

Unlike 5Ks, I don't really have a quick-and-easy way to assess fitness for a 10K. A couple days ago I did 3*1 mile repeats in 6:06, 5:54, 6:14. But I was really dying by the end of that last one. So I think I have a shot at a PR, but it will be close.

Any tips and pointers on ways to approach a 10k?

SonicDeathMonkey80

In for the replies. According to McMillan and the Daniels training table, I should be running a 10K at 43:30.... which I did in October (current PR). So I'm clueless. Maybe I've peaked lol

davemunger

One thing I'm particularly curious about is the start. In a 5K you can pretty much lose the race in the first mile if you don't start quick enough. But I'm wondering if anyone has had success in a 10K by easing off just a hair in the first mile -- maybe run it 10 seconds slower than target pace?

sjohnny

One thing I'm particularly curious about is the start. In a 5K you can pretty much lose the race in the first mile if you don't start quick enough. But I'm wondering if anyone has had success in a 10K by easing off just a hair in the first mile -- maybe run it 10 seconds slower than target pace?

I'm also interested in thoughts on this.

I have this question also and am working on a strategy for my 10K this Saturday. Based on my 5K time from almost 2 weeks ago (23:48) McMillan thinks I should do a 10K in 49:26 (7:57/mile). My goal for the race is sub 50:00 so at least McMillan thinks that's on target. Last Saturday I ran what was supposed to be an easy 6 mile run and I hit 6.2 at about 51:30ish (following a 10 mile run the day before). This further adds to my good feelings about breaking 50:00 on Saturday.

I was considering maybe shooting for 8:10 or 8:15 for the first mile and then kicking it up after that but I just don't know.

_Josee_

Good timing with that post! I have a 10K race on sunday...

McMillan is saying 46:19min (7:27) when I enter my last 5K result... I've only raced one 10K before (53:xx min)...

I'm not sure about holding 7:27 that long.. So I was thinking about negative splitting it... Not sure it is appropriate on a 10K though... It is a ''short'' distance, but it's also a long distance to push and feel miserable.. Going a bit slower on the first half may give me a chance to push a bit more at the end.

I'm curious to see what others do for 10Ks !

tappae

I have this question also and am working on a strategy for my 10K this Saturday. Based on my 5K time from almost 2 weeks ago (23:48) McMillan thinks I should do a 10K in 49:26 (7:57/mile). My goal for the race is sub 50:00 so at least McMillan thinks that's on target. Last Saturday I ran what was supposed to be an easy 6 mile run and I hit 6.2 at about 51:30ish (following a 10 mile run the day before). This further adds to my good feelings about breaking 50:00 on Saturday.

You're absolutely going to break 50 minutes! I think starting around 8:00 and seeing how you feel is a good strategy. I broke 50 a couple of years ago (before I broke 25 for the 5K).

For Dave, though, I'm afraid I have no advice, but I'm interested in seeing the responses. I did lose a lot of speed with my ultra training, but I never had speed like you to begin with, so maybe you'll be less effected (you gained less weight, too).

All I can remember thinking during my 10K was: is this race ever going to end? I passed the same guy something like 6 times after he kept sprinting past me and walking. I was totally surprised to get 3rd in my AG (my first running prize) with that 49:xx. Several people faster than me were disqualified for running the wrong race (they paid for the 5K). Also, I was in the 30-34 AG, and 6 guys in the 35-39s beat everyone in my age group!

davemunger

Okay, I was curious, so I took the second page of the Ukrops Monument Avenue 10K results for men and looked at their 5k splits versus net time. Here is what I found:



Their average net 5K time was 10 seconds *faster* than their second 5K. This could be because the 5K time point was a little off, but it also suggests that most people tended to slow down just a touch in the second half. 29 of the 44 runners who had 5K splits ran positive splits, and only 15 ran negative splits.

I picked the second page of the leaderboard because these are obviously very fast, presumably experienced runners, but not likely to be running a strategic race (e.g. deliberately playing position and running slow at the start). They were not going for an overall victory, so therefore they were just trying to run the race as fast as possible. So the proper strategy may be to head out at a pace just faster than the desired goal, at least over the first 5k (I'd love to see mile-by-mile splits for this group, but Ukrops only gives 5k splits).

Edit: And I should add that the first half of this race is a gradual uphill, with the second half a gradual downhill, so if anything there should be a bias towards negative splits, but that is the opposite of what we find.

PeteWhoLikesToRunAlot

Tagging along too. Pacing my next 5K is going to be a nightmare, as I'd like to hit ~20mins. I don't start out at sub 7:00s very well, takes a good mile or two to loosen up. Obviously I've gotta do more speed work.

sjohnny

Tagging along too. Pacing my next 5K is going to be a nightmare, as I'd like to hit ~20mins. I don't start out at sub 7:00s very well, takes a good mile or two to loosen up. Obviously I've gotta do more speed work.

Would a good warm-up help with that?

sjohnny

You're absolutely going to break 50 minutes! I think starting around 8:00 and seeing how you feel is a good strategy. I broke 50 a couple of years ago (before I broke 25 for the 5K).

This is likely what I'll end up doing. I'm planning to park at my office which is a mile and a half from the start/finish line and use that distance as a warm-up run so I should be good to hit the starting line at 8:00ish. If I'm still feeling good at 5K I can pick it up and do a negative split.

Odds are any strategy will go straight out the window and I'll be trying to do math in my head while sprinting along at wildly unplanned and varying speeds.

But I like having a plan.

PeteWhoLikesToRunAlot

Tagging along too. Pacing my next 5K is going to be a nightmare, as I'd like to hit ~20mins. I don't start out at sub 7:00s very well, takes a good mile or two to loosen up. Obviously I've gotta do more speed work.

Would a good warm-up help with that?

Probably. I honestly never warm up at all before a race. I should definitely look into it, though I have no idea how much, or at what pace, I should do it.

_Josee_

Okay, I was curious, so I took the second page of the Ukrops Monument Avenue 10K results for men and looked at their 5k splits versus net time. Here is what I found:



Their average net 5K time was 10 seconds *faster* than their second 5K. This could be because the 5K time point was a little off, but it also suggests that most people tended to slow down just a touch in the second half. 29 of the 44 runners who had 5K splits ran positive splits, and only 15 ran negative splits.

I picked the second page of the leaderboard because these are obviously very fast, presumably experienced runners, but not likely to be running a strategic race (e.g. deliberately playing position and running slow at the start). They were not going for an overall victory, so therefore they were just trying to run the race as fast as possible. So the proper strategy may be to head out at a pace just faster than the desired goal, at least over the first 5k (I'd love to see mile-by-mile splits for this group, but Ukrops only gives 5k splits).

Edit: And I should add that the first half of this race is a gradual uphill, with the second half a gradual downhill, so if anything there should be a bias towards negative splits, but that is the opposite of what we find.

This is VERY interesting! Mmmmm.....

Anyone have any idea how accurate is McMillan for a 10K time using a 5K time ?

sjohnny

Tagging along too. Pacing my next 5K is going to be a nightmare, as I'd like to hit ~20mins. I don't start out at sub 7:00s very well, takes a good mile or two to loosen up. Obviously I've gotta do more speed work.

Would a good warm-up help with that?

Probably. I honestly never warm up at all before a race. I should definitely look into it, though I have no idea how much, or at what pace, I should do it.

I can't remember where I saw it but somewhere I read that a good warm-up for a 5K is to do a mile or two at or around 10K pace. And then I saw a recommendation somewhere to throw a few strides in there too. I did this before my last 5K and felt like I was able to jump to a faster pace more quickly.

davemunger

This is VERY interesting! Mmmmm.....

Anyone have any idea how accurate is McMillan for a 10K time using a 5K time ?

The closer to the desired race the better. I'd say assuming you have sufficiently trained for a 10k, the 5k should be a very good predictor of 10k time. I find it does well for me up to about a half marathon.

davemunger

I can't remember where I saw it but somewhere I read that a good warm-up for a 5K is to do a mile or two at or around 10K pace. And then I saw a recommendation somewhere to throw a few strides in there too. I did this before my last 5K and felt like I was able to jump to a faster pace more quickly.

Wow, I wouldn't go quite that fast! I just run an easy mile or two, not even fast enough to get out of breath, then do several strides at roughly 5k pace as close as possible to the race start time.

_Josee_

I can't remember where I saw it but somewhere I read that a good warm-up for a 5K is to do a mile or two at or around 10K pace. And then I saw a recommendation somewhere to throw a few strides in there too. I did this before my last 5K and felt like I was able to jump to a faster pace more quickly.

Wow, I wouldn't go quite that fast! I just run an easy mile or two, not even fast enough to get out of breath, then do several strides at roughly 5k pace as close as possible to the race start time.

I did that at my last 5K... Just to get my legs lose. I was ready to run hard when the race started without losing energy before the actual race!

SonicDeathMonkey80

Tagging along too. Pacing my next 5K is going to be a nightmare, as I'd like to hit ~20mins. I don't start out at sub 7:00s very well, takes a good mile or two to loosen up. Obviously I've gotta do more speed work.

Would a good warm-up help with that?

Probably. I honestly never warm up at all before a race. I should definitely look into it, though I have no idea how much, or at what pace, I should do it.

I can't remember where I saw it but somewhere I read that a good warm-up for a 5K is to do a mile or two at or around 10K pace. And then I saw a recommendation somewhere to throw a few strides in there too. I did this before my last 5K and felt like I was able to jump to a faster pace more quickly.

Damn. My warm up was a 10min mile in my trainers, then threw on my racing flats and did it again with some strides thrown in. People looked at me like I was weird, but I got first dibs on the cookie selection

davemunger

Damn. My warm up was a 10min mile in my trainers, then threw on my racing flats and did it again with some strides thrown in. People looked at me like I was weird, but I got first dibs on the cookie selection

I love to warm up in my trainers and just wear the flats starting about 15 minutes before the race. It gives you a real boost to put on the lightweight shoes right before the race.

sjohnny

I can't remember where I saw it but somewhere I read that a good warm-up for a 5K is to do a mile or two at or around 10K pace. And then I saw a recommendation somewhere to throw a few strides in there too. I did this before my last 5K and felt like I was able to jump to a faster pace more quickly.

Wow, I wouldn't go quite that fast! I just run an easy mile or two, not even fast enough to get out of breath, then do several strides at roughly 5k pace as close as possible to the race start time.

Maybe slowing down on my warm-up would have kept me from running out of gas before the end of the race :laugh: :laugh:

I'll be going much slower warming up on Saturday.

davemunger

Just took another look at the data and it looks like I made a mistake. There is still a net positive split but there is only 3 seconds difference between the first 5k and second 5k. Still, since it is a downhill finish, I think there may be something to starting a little faster than your goal pace.

davemunger

I decided to write this up on Science-Based running. Pretty fascinating stuff:

http://sciencebasedrunning.com/2014/04/should-you-start-out-slow-in-a-10k/

sjohnny

I decided to write this up on Science-Based running. Pretty fascinating stuff:

http://sciencebasedrunning.com/2014/04/should-you-start-out-slow-in-a-10k/

Interesting.

So. Are you planning a faster start? And if so what are your thoughts on by how much?

davemunger

So. Are you planning a faster start? And if so what are your thoughts on by how much?

Yes, if it was a totally flat course I would definitely try to start out at a 6:15 pace instead of 6:20. I will have to look at the course map to be sure; there will be a few adjustments for hills. But I think the biggest hill is in the second half so if I'm shooting for a 6:20 overall pace I may need to start even just a touch faster than that.

sjohnny

I drew the map for the course so I could get an idea of the elevation profile and it's not exactly flat and the hills are pretty well dispersed through the whole thing

sjohnny

I just saw that they're going to have pacers.......? Is that even a thing? Pacers at a 10K?

davemunger

I drew the map for the course so I could get an idea of the elevation profile and it's not exactly flat and the hills are pretty well dispersed through the whole thing

That looks to me like it's got a mostly downhill finish. So maybe shoot for an even pace the whole way? The extra work on the front half will probably match the effort of a fast start.

I just saw that they're going to have pacers.......? Is that even a thing? Pacers at a 10K?

I've been at one 10k with pacers. But my pacer had bitten off more than she could chew and couldn't keep up the required pace, so I ended up finishing way ahead of her!

sjohnny

Yeah. I'm thinking even pace and then if I have anything left at the end open it up.

Thanks for the input.

But my pacer had bitten off more than she could chew and couldn't keep up the required pace, so I ended up finishing way ahead of her!

I can see this being pretty common in shorter races.

sjohnny

The hills were a LOT worse in person than they were on the map. A LOT worse. The 85% humidity didn't help much either. 51:38 was my watch time. Still a 3 minute PR but not quite the sub 50 I was hoping for.

actlc

Congratulations!

humidity definitely played a role and made it difficult & slower. I always find myself slower or higher heart rate when running in high humidity.

The hills were a LOT worse in person than they were on the map. A LOT worse. The 85% humidity didn't help much either. 51:38 was my watch time. Still a 3 minute PR but not quite the sub 50 I was hoping for.

sjohnny

Congratulations!

humidity definitely played a role and made it difficult & slower. I always find myself slower or higher heart rate when running in high humidity.

The hills were a LOT worse in person than they were on the map. A LOT worse. The 85% humidity didn't help much either. 51:38 was my watch time. Still a 3 minute PR but not quite the sub 50 I was hoping for.

Thanks!

It's usually humid here in the spring/summer/fall but I just haven't had a chance to get re-acclimated to it after our "exceptionally cold" winter.

sjohnny

Sorry, Dave. I kinda jacked your thread. But the timeliness of it was just too good for me to pass.