Is this all just my stupid glycogen? Help!
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SillyC2
Posts: 275 Member
A bit of background - I'm an ultrarunner, and I took that up back in 2010. Since then, I've been running around 2,000 miles per year (not particularly high mileage for an ultrarunner, but about average). With that, I typically do 3 long runs a month of above 20 miles.
And I gained about 12 lbs since 2010. I want to lose some of it, but slowly so I don't end up with stress fractures and that glorious female athlete triad.
I'm 5'2" and I weigh 120 right now, FWIW.
I'm using the "eat back my calories" method here, and while I've definitely taken off 5 lbs since January... that's not very impressive AND it's been really difficult. Set at a 1/2 lb per week, that brings me to 1390 net a day. I go to bed most nights super hungry, and I keep feeling like my blood sugar is really low, like if I were racing, I'd probably want to drink a coke at the next aid station. I last a couple of weeks like that, and then I can't handle it, and I have a normal meal and up goes the scale again.
In the past two weeks, I've gained back 2 lbs and it is literally impossible for that to be fat. I realize I didn't log for about 2 days during that time, but I wasn't binge eating. I didn't go crazy. I just had the third slice of pizza rather than stopping at 1 and a banana.
Am I just running through my glycogen every time? And making no progress because, since I'm a distance runner, I store TONS of it? If so, how do I get past this? Or should I just quit and stay 120?
And I gained about 12 lbs since 2010. I want to lose some of it, but slowly so I don't end up with stress fractures and that glorious female athlete triad.
I'm 5'2" and I weigh 120 right now, FWIW.
I'm using the "eat back my calories" method here, and while I've definitely taken off 5 lbs since January... that's not very impressive AND it's been really difficult. Set at a 1/2 lb per week, that brings me to 1390 net a day. I go to bed most nights super hungry, and I keep feeling like my blood sugar is really low, like if I were racing, I'd probably want to drink a coke at the next aid station. I last a couple of weeks like that, and then I can't handle it, and I have a normal meal and up goes the scale again.
In the past two weeks, I've gained back 2 lbs and it is literally impossible for that to be fat. I realize I didn't log for about 2 days during that time, but I wasn't binge eating. I didn't go crazy. I just had the third slice of pizza rather than stopping at 1 and a banana.
Am I just running through my glycogen every time? And making no progress because, since I'm a distance runner, I store TONS of it? If so, how do I get past this? Or should I just quit and stay 120?
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My weight fluctuates like crazy. Like a 7-8 pound range. It's frustrating as hell but I know there is no way I can be actually gaining it, I'm not eating enough to gain. Usually if I spend a week eating less carbs than normal and well under my calorie goal it disappears. So it's just water weight. I find the harder I am training the harder it is to lose. You have to fuel the machine, right? I think in order to effectively lose weight I would have to really scale back my exercise and focus on eating at a major deficit. So I would say you are experiencing the same. Water weight/glycogen storage. Are you unhappy with how you look? If not, I would just throw the scale out and focus on your running and eating well to support that.0
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My weight fluctuates like crazy. Like a 7-8 pound range. It's frustrating as hell but I know there is no way I can be actually gaining it, I'm not eating enough to gain. Usually if I spend a week eating less carbs than normal and well under my calorie goal it disappears. So it's just water weight. I find the harder I am training the harder it is to lose. You have to fuel the machine, right? I think in order to effectively lose weight I would have to really scale back my exercise and focus on eating at a major deficit. So I would say you are experiencing the same. Water weight/glycogen storage. Are you unhappy with how you look? If not, I would just throw the scale out and focus on your running and eating well to support that.
Not exactly, but I don't want to have to buy all new clothes. My weight had hit that tipping point in December.0 -
I found that strictly using the MFP formula and eating back calories was good initially after I had lost ~10lbs the scale stopped moving. I started deducting BSR from the calorie estimates for my workouts and things worked much better.
Before you ask, BSR represents the calories you would have expended if you had done nothing. I use a BSR of 100 calories per hour, if you use google you can find more info and estimate yours.0 -
A bit of background - I'm an ultrarunner, and I took that up back in 2010. Since then, I've been running around 2,000 miles per year (not particularly high mileage for an ultrarunner, but about average). With that, I typically do 3 long runs a month of above 20 miles.
And I gained about 12 lbs since 2010. I want to lose some of it, but slowly so I don't end up with stress fractures and that glorious female athlete triad.
I'm 5'2" and I weigh 120 right now, FWIW.
I'm using the "eat back my calories" method here, and while I've definitely taken off 5 lbs since January... that's not very impressive AND it's been really difficult. Set at a 1/2 lb per week, that brings me to 1390 net a day. I go to bed most nights super hungry, and I keep feeling like my blood sugar is really low, like if I were racing, I'd probably want to drink a coke at the next aid station. I last a couple of weeks like that, and then I can't handle it, and I have a normal meal and up goes the scale again.
In the past two weeks, I've gained back 2 lbs and it is literally impossible for that to be fat. I realize I didn't log for about 2 days during that time, but I wasn't binge eating. I didn't go crazy. I just had the third slice of pizza rather than stopping at 1 and a banana.
Am I just running through my glycogen every time? And making no progress because, since I'm a distance runner, I store TONS of it? If so, how do I get past this? Or should I just quit and stay 120?
2 pounds is within tolerance for "maintenance" (±2% according to the weight loss industry, IIRC) but I some empathy for you having experience the frustration that can come with gaining even a little weight back.
Insofar as glycogen is concerned, it's found in small amounts in our body - highly trained athletes eating 75% carbs only have 550 grams during training and are able to push that to 880 grams by carboloading. As we improve our cardio fitness, our body is able to store more glycogen, up to the amounts cited above, but excess glycogen is stored as fat.
Should you stay at 120? Can't say. That's a healthy weight and, if you are comfortable, why not stay at that weight?
OTOH, if you want to get the most you can out of running, drop some weight. Elite women runners are 8% body fat. As Matt Fitzgerald argues in his book on nutrition, the easiest way to improve your running performance is to lose weight. I don't think he quotes it but the commonly accepted figure is that every pound "costs" us about 2 seconds per mile. With that figure in mind, dropping 5 pounds could take almost 4 ½ minutes off your marathon time (10*26.2 = 262 seconds = 2:22)0 -
A bit of background - I'm an ultrarunner, and I took that up back in 2010. Since then, I've been running around 2,000 miles per year (not particularly high mileage for an ultrarunner, but about average). With that, I typically do 3 long runs a month of above 20 miles.
And I gained about 12 lbs since 2010. I want to lose some of it, but slowly so I don't end up with stress fractures and that glorious female athlete triad.
I'm 5'2" and I weigh 120 right now, FWIW.
I'm using the "eat back my calories" method here, and while I've definitely taken off 5 lbs since January... that's not very impressive AND it's been really difficult. Set at a 1/2 lb per week, that brings me to 1390 net a day. I go to bed most nights super hungry, and I keep feeling like my blood sugar is really low, like if I were racing, I'd probably want to drink a coke at the next aid station. I last a couple of weeks like that, and then I can't handle it, and I have a normal meal and up goes the scale again.
In the past two weeks, I've gained back 2 lbs and it is literally impossible for that to be fat. I realize I didn't log for about 2 days during that time, but I wasn't binge eating. I didn't go crazy. I just had the third slice of pizza rather than stopping at 1 and a banana.
Am I just running through my glycogen every time? And making no progress because, since I'm a distance runner, I store TONS of it? If so, how do I get past this? Or should I just quit and stay 120?
2 pounds is within tolerance for "maintenance" (±2% according to the weight loss industry, IIRC) but I some empathy for you having experience the frustration that can come with gaining even a little weight back.
Insofar as glycogen is concerned, it's found in small amounts in our body - highly trained athletes eating 75% carbs only have 550 grams during training and are able to push that to 880 grams by carboloading. As we improve our cardio fitness, our body is able to store more glycogen, up to the amounts cited above, but excess glycogen is stored as fat.
Well, this is along the lines of what I was thinking..... If I eat a 200 calorie deficit, do I even touch the fat in the first place? Or is my body just saying, "Oh, 200 calories? We got this. Let's just burn some of ALL THAT GLYCOGEN you forced us to store, mobilize, store, mobilize....."
The thing is? Before it bumps back up - seemingly 3 lbs overnight - my weight has NOT fluctuated. When I've gotten down to 118, it was 118 in the morning. 118 at night. 118 the next day, no matter how much I drank. Which led me to think I had just scraped the bottom of the barrel with my stored glycogen.0 -
2 pounds is within tolerance for "maintenance" (±2% according to the weight loss industry, IIRC) but I some empathy for you having experience the frustration that can come with gaining even a little weight back.
Insofar as glycogen is concerned, it's found in small amounts in our body - highly trained athletes eating 75% carbs only have 550 grams during training and are able to push that to 880 grams by carboloading. As we improve our cardio fitness, our body is able to store more glycogen, up to the amounts cited above, but excess glycogen is stored as fat.
Well, this is along the lines of what I was thinking..... If I eat a 200 calorie deficit, do I even touch the fat in the first place? Or is my body just saying, "Oh, 200 calories? We got this. Let's just burn some of ALL THAT GLYCOGEN you forced us to store, mobilize, store, mobilize....."
The thing is? Before it bumps back up - seemingly 3 lbs overnight - my weight has NOT fluctuated. When I've gotten down to 118, it was 118 in the morning. 118 at night. 118 the next day, no matter how much I drank. Which led me to think I had just scraped the bottom of the barrel with my stored glycogen.
The ratio of CHO to fat is driven, in an individual, by the level of exertion and by the ability to metabolize fat instead of CHO. The key to this is that our body gets energy from different source according to the demand placed on it. The demand varies with intensity and duration. Sprinters use CHO for a couple of seconds and never burn fat - they burn up their 8 seconds (±) of "adenosine triphosphate" and burn CHO for a couple of seconds. Faster endurance races require lots of CHO whereas ultras are a very high percentage of fat. As we run more (endurance), our body tends to burn fat instead of CHO. That's a good thing 'cause we have only about a pound of glycogen but lots of adipose tissue that we can convert to energy.
I use a Garmin HRM and software called FirstBeat Athlete. Here are some screenshots that will provide more detailed info:
cbeinfo.net/running/images/hr_vs_fatpercentage_walking_20130127.jpg
cbeinfo.net/running/images/hr_vs_fatpercentage_running_20130125.jpg
Readings from sitting at desk, then walking up and downstairs.
cbeinfo.net/running/images/hr_vs_fatpercentage_sitting_20130213.jpg
This is from the America's Finest City Haf in San Diego. The start is a very fast 3 miles down with a steep hill about a mile from the finish
cbeinfo.net/running/images/fat_percentage_half_marathon_20130818.gif
This is the trace from a Half at Huntington Beach. Mostly flat (one hill at mile 3). With the exception of the hill at mile 3, the times for most of the first 7 miles were ±4 seconds. Miles 8 -11 were 8 seconds faster, on average, and were ±2 seconds. The last two miles were 30 seconds faster, and 45 seconds faster than mile 11. The increased pace of the last few miles is reflected in the increasing amounts of CHO that I was burning (the trace shows fat burning so CHO burning is going up when the trace drops)
cbeinfo.net/running/images/fat_percentage_half_marathon_20140202.gif
This was a training run - lower level of exertion so I'm using less CHO:
cbeinfo.net/running/images/fatexpenditure_20130721_13.1_miles.gif
The higher level of exertion required more CHO than during the training run.
cbeinfo.net/running/images/fatexpenditure_20130818_13.2_miles.gif0 -
How does it have any idea what you're burning?0
