Should we(I) admit it...

PatrickB_87

Found a great article on TheBusinessofLoosingWeight.com, a blog by another myfitnesspal user who has drooped a lot of weight and trained to become a triathlete. An amazing blog to read from the beginning.

He had a great article on food addiction and cheat days. I might not like to admit it, but a lot of it rang true. What do you think?
I'm still of two mind about occasionally letting yourself have a craving food. Does that mean i'm not dedicated? Is it possible to give into a craving in a healthy way (I can only think back to my NY Pizza night an remember how poorly I did)?

http://www.businessoflosingweight.com/you-wouldnt-give-a-drug-addict-a-cheat-day/

Well it's nearly 7pm so i should be off from my walk.

KarenZen

Great read! As a fellow food addict, I get this guy. I like to think that one day I will look at a donut and say, "I'm not putting that nastiness in my body," and I can see doing that with pizza (I'd rather make a flatbread version at home) or other junk food, especially drive thru fast food.

Is bit a" cheat" though to eat a piece of cake on my birthday? As a sugar addict , I know that piece of cake is a potential trigger and I need to be careful it doesn't spiral into a binge.

I guess the bigger question is... are you an addict? I disagree with the writer that every obese person is, but maybe I'm wrong. I know I'm a food addict, and FINALLY approaching weight loss from an addiction stance rather than a diet and moderation stance is making all the difference.

Thanks for sharing, Rat.

monmonof3

Thanks for sharing, Rat. I have never read such a great description of food addiction. I am not sure that everyone who is obese is an addict. That would be a personal discovery one would have to realize for one's self. I certainly see the signs of food addiction in myself. This will require more thought and research. In the meantime, no more (planned) cheat days for me!

PatrickB_87

I certainly agree that not all obesity is due to food addiction, but those of us who have gotten to this point for none medical reasons obviously have a bad and unhealthy relationship to our food and how we eat.

While i wouldn't like to say I am a food addict I think it might be safe to say about certain food. My last two screw ups have been evidence of that, at least to me. The pizza i didn't need to keep eating, the bacon cheeseburger i never needed to buy. I had the conversation in my head, i knew these were bad choices but i made them anyway. Thats a major problem. Even now i'm planning to go to the supermarket to pick up a few ingredients, some onions to caramelize for boca burgers, some baby powder, lettuce for salad, some cauliflower for cauliflower pizza dough. Already i'm fitting myself over discussions, the temptation to pick up a treat. I am hungry due to an unsatisfying dinner and have quite a few calories left and immediately my mind is filling in the gaps.

No Karen i don;t think that having a slice of cake is cheating on your birthday. The problem i would imagine for myself is their better be only one slice of cake or god help me in the morning. I am realizing that their are certain foods i can't trust myself around. Thats addiction.

KarenZen

"Certain foods I can't trust myself around... that's addiction." Oh yeah. You hit the nail on the head.

scubasuenc

I'm not sure whether or not I would qualify myself as a food addict. I definitely have an unhealthy relationship with food and use it to calm/cover emotions I don't want to deal with.

But I still don't believe in cheat days or meals. I watch what I eat and count my calories every day with every meal. If I want a piece of cake on my birthday, I plan for it and eat fewer calories during the rest of the day. If I want a piece of pizza I figure out how to work that into my day.

There are certain foods that tend to be trigger foods and I avoid them in many situations. Potato chips for example, I could sit at home in front of the TV and demolish a family size bag in one or two sittings. So I don't buy potato chips. However I have given myself permission that if I really want them, I can walk to the store and buy a single serving bag, then walk home and have it. I haven't craved potato chips since. Things I tend to over indulge in at home, I give myself permission only to eat out. For example I might make a huge bowl of ice cream at home, now I allow myself the occasional single scoop if it fits into my day.

He is right that we all have to learn how to manage our food issues. Whether you call it addiction, or a poor relationship with food, or whatever other label you want to call it, we have to take control and manage it. I do not expect there will ever be a day when I'm not managing it. Even when I lose the excess weight, I will still have to be very conscious of my food choices.

I'd rather focus on making good food choices and exercising that return to the 300+ lb. person I was 6 months ago. I imagine I will feel more strongly about that when I reach my goal weight.

KarenZen

Sue, I would love to have that kind of relationship with food where I can have a scoop of ice cream or a piece of cake and just work it into my meal plan for the day. This is where my identification as an addict comes in... I can't without major consequences. That small taste of concentrated sugar/fat, in me, sets off a chain reaction, such a strong, strong, strong biochemical urge, that I become obsessed. One piece of cake, and I am fighting horrible cravings for 24-36 hours. Then I give in to the craving, have "just one more" treat, and then "just one more day," and so on, and next thing you know, I've been binging on sugar for two weeks and have gained back 10 pounds (that just happened to me last month).

I'll give you an example of how insidious it is... on Sunday, I cooked some chicken breast that was a little dry and tasteless, so I dug through the cupboard and found a jar of blueberry pepper jam I'd bought in Vermont and thought, Hmmmm... I can put some of this on the chicken. I dumped a tablespoon in the pan, let it melt around the chicken, YUM. All day yesterday I kept thinking about how good that chicken was. Twice I opened the jam jar and stuck my finger in it for a taste. Last night, cooking more chicken, I thought, YAY, I can put some more jam on it, and I did, and then rolled my brussel sprouts around in the leftover jam juice on my plate. As I was lying in bed last night, I thought, Maybe I should by some pork so I can put jam on it.... what else can put the jam on? where can I get more jam? can I make my own jam? should I freeze the jam or can it? how many jars of jam should I make? jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam jam!!!!

That jam was the first taste of sugar I've had in over two weeks. Less than a tablespoon. 40 calories. It made me crazy. Even now, typing "jam," I have a battle going on in my head over whether I should throw out the rest, freeze it, or find something to eat it on, or give it away, or... aaarrghhhh.... it's just fricking JAM! what the hell????

I am normally a sane, logical, reasonable, well-educated, articulate woman. Give me one of my food triggers and I turn into a lunatic. That's the addict.

scubasuenc

Karen - That is definitely different than what happens with me, and I'm not sure it ever did. Which I think gets back to that point that not all obese people are food addicts. We all over ate, but what drove us to over eat varies.

That is one of the things I love about MFP and the people here. Most recognize that the method for weight loss varies from person to person. Yes, at the lowest level it is simply calories in vs calories out. However the mix of foods, or more importantly the mental changes we need to make to sustain that deficit are different. What works for me, might not work for you, and what works for you might not work for me. However I like the sharing of ideas and support from the people here.

julieworley376

I thought the article was great although I think there is a danger in it. Much as I love the idea of not eating it at all, it perpetuates that old roller coaster for me of eating great, oh no I slipped up and ate something so weeks later I am still trying to get back on a diet because of the guilt the slip up caused.

There are foods I absolutely have a huge problem with, chocolate is one example and once I start I literally can't stop till I go to bed. I eat chocolate early, the whole day is screwed. Apparently this is because I am hypoglycemic like my Dad was and my son is and the sugar causes a massive high and then a low dip so I need more.

The frustrating thing is that my husband simply doesn't understand and refuses to listen. He uses his diabetes as an excuse to have candy bars in the house, there are other things he can use, it doesn't have to be chocolate. I don't want it in the house, I have asked him several times to hide it because I know at a low point I will eat some. He says, I don't understand, if you don't want to eat it, don't eat it! Sigh.

KarenZen

Interestingly, Sue, although my sister and mother are both morbidly obese, both identify as emotional eaters and neither identifies herself as a food or sugar addict.

Both my mom and sister keep chocolate in the house at all times (my mother hides hers away like a squirrel--a hershey bar tucked into a kleenex box, rolos in her shoes, that kind of thing; my sister keeps hers in the freezer unless I am staying with her--then she hides it in her bedroom closet). Both have told me that they feel "uneasy" unless they have some in the house. I'm just the opposite. If it's in the house, I'm uneasy until it's gone.

I think as the years go by and we learn more and more about human biology and the brain, we'll have some better answers about the mechanisms, physical and psychological, of obesity. For now, I agree, sharing with others and hearing about different approaches is awesome and really, really helpful!

PatrickB_87

Much as I love the idea of not eating it at all, it perpetuates that old roller coaster for me of eating great, oh no I slipped up and ate something so weeks later I am still trying to get back on a diet because of the guilt the slip up caused.

Sounds like its the guilt that needs as much work as the food choices. You can't allow yourself to get railroaded by guilt at each mistake. If this journey is going to take a couple of years then their is going to be plenty of missteps along the way, we don't have to like it but we can except it. Not giving myself hard time when i do misstep has been a hard thing for me, its destroyed attempts in the past and all I have learned is that the guilt does nothing for me. It doesn't help the situation and its sure as heck not a motivator.

This might sound corny but as part of my yoga practice I am suppose to keep a gratitude journal (not the most exciting idea for a 26yo male). Each day i add one or more points of things i'm grateful for. Anything from a wonderful meal i'm eating to my support network. I use an app for the iphone called Gratitude365. It helps me get past any sense of guilt. I try to add entry when I am happy, but when I am upset with myself I make sure I add an entry about the positive I find iI'm grateful that I have other choice, that I can start again the moment after I make a bad choice, that the unhealthy food I ate is no more satisfying then a good meal, that their is nothing I have done in the past 25 days that I can't do for 25 more.

It helps turn those negative emotions into positive ones and gets your way of thinking out of that rut.

cekennon

Hello All!
I haven't read the article yet but I read all your posts. I just love this - look at us sharing and talking honest. I am a food addict...more I have an unhealthy relationship with food - today I ate a small piece of twix someone had and Im ok...I dont need another but let that bucket be in MY office and I would eat it constantly. If I dont see it - I am ok - and I am learning if I really want a treat - I will eat it - I am diabetic and it is under control but I dont know if I could say "I give it all up" - I tried to do the 21 day challenge here - didnt work - I think the key is everything in moderation. I can count out 20 potato chips and eat them - but then the rest of the bag has to go away. I cannot eat 1/2 cup of ice cream - but I can have a cup from outside and be ok with it.
But I love all food..and truth is when I was 100 pounds thinner - I thought I was fat and ugly and now I am 235 and I think I am beautiful and fabulous - I think its different for all of us - it depends what the root it...what happened or what triggered the unhealthy eating, bad relationship with food, over eating , stuffing, hiding - it all comes from somewhere.
Many people who get surgery to loose weight gained it because they dont get to the bottom of the eating - the physiological part..you cant just staple your stomach and not address the emotional.
I am in this for the long haul...I dont want to say something is off limits because I have to be in the real world of food - what I want to learn is portion - a bite, a piece, not the whole thing.
You know drug addicts and other addictions - you can live without the rest of your life - you can even never be around it and live - but food...you cant - you have to be around it and you need it to survive - which makes this addicts tough but I know it can be done and Im not giving up and this group really helps me!!!!!!!!
Im going to read the article now

BodyByChipsAhoy

I can't speak for any other morbidly obese person out there, but I most definitely consider myself a food addict. Karen, your post resonated very much with me. It describes my relationship and reaction to sugar perfectly. I struggle between feeling like I have to stay away from it completely, while wondering if that is just setting myself up for failure. But I really believe I have a genuine physiological (along with psychological) addiction to sugar. No matter how much I eat, it's never enough. I can eat chocolate or other sweets all day long until I'm sick. Then the next day, when I feel better, I'm right back at it again. This to me screams addiction.

I have never struggled with any other type of addiction so I cannot say for sure what kind of addiction is worse. However, it seems logical that a food addiction is harder to overcome. Most other addictions have an expectation of complete abstinence but you cannot do that with food. Makes it that much tougher.

cekennon

Ok I just read the article and I loved it and didnt - and I had to comment - and this is what I wrote to him

Hello,
I am on MFP and someone posted your link to read. I love it. I totally agree with many things that you say. I think food addiction is the worst kind because it is the only substance you cannot live without. You are also around it all the time. I am addict. I have unhealthy relationship with food. It stems from something else and this is how it has manifested itself. I am becoming healthier day by day – first I had to work from the inside out – you can change the way you look but that won’t change the way you feel. Today I love myself and feel I am worth taking care of. I look and see a beautiful woman of God. 80 pounds ago I hated myself , thought I was ugly and fat.

You say "Cheat days or even meals for an obese person are a sign that someone doesn’t truly want to change themselves" - that’s is HUGE statement and you just spoke for everyone. I think you can only speak for yourself. To you it was a cheat day - do someone it is eating in moderation and portion control - I know tons of obese people who did Weight Watchers and nothing was off limits. You also said "Once you decide to change, then shed your old ways and never look back" and you referenced the bible and Joel Olsteen - I am a follower of Christ - I was born again and have shed the old me - but food itself is not a sin - gluttony is – Please know I am not trying to be mean spirited or ugly – I totally get what your saying – and you have done an amazing job but if I may – I think it would be better to speak how you feel – how it did or didn’t work for you.

Just like food addiction is not like drug addiction in the fact that you have to live with it – its about changing your inner self and how you view yourself. Diabetics shouldn’t eat sugar but there are tons of recipe books for no sugar recipes – they are modified for the diabetic. There is no modification for a heroin addict.

Again, please know..I am not trying to be combative at all – I just think when people post about their journey in anything – it should be kept to their testimony, what worked for them how they feel and think – so that line where you said "Cheat days or even meals for an obese person are a sign that someone doesn’t truly want to change themselves" could have read “for me I felt if I had cheat days, I wasn’t really trying to change my old habits so I could not allow myself a cheat day”

julieworley376

Nice! Because I totally get where you are coming from. Cutting things out altogether doesn't work for me, losing guilt and making allowances occasionally is still a work in progress for me. But I was thinking this morning that one size doesn't fit all. That is why in this group I try to challenge with questions to get your own thought processes going because I think each one of us has something to offer to encourage and inspire the others.

KarenZen

Good timing on this discussion! I just returned from my therapy session with my eating disorder shrink, and we talked about this very issue. While it's true that we can't completely give up food (although after her stroke, my grandmother lived for seven years on isocal that we fed her through a feeding tube), we CAN completely give up certain types of food. If you go to food addicts anonymous meetings, they require ninety days of complete abstinence from sugar, white flour, white rice, and I think potatoes as well as a whole bunch of other foods that have a high glycemic index before you're even allowed to speak at meetings.

When I read my jam jam jam post to my shrink today, she said, "I finally get it. You can't have sugar, can you?" Then she said, "You know what happens now? One day at a time." Then she wrote down my quit date, because it's important that I celebrate my anniversaries. So the rest of the jam went into the trash, and as of this moment I am sugar abstinent. I'm okay with this. It's not for everybody, but it's necessary for me. Mind you, my shrink has been a huge proponent of the all things in moderation meal plan. And she really did not want me to restrict any food type. What's changed for her is reading the new Yale studies and listening to me describe experiences with sugar that are similar to an alcoholic's experience with booze.

In some ways, I'm freaked out about this decision to abstain from sugar, but in other ways I'm relieved to finally face the problem and make the commitment to address it. I feel at peace.

As far as the guilt of eating "bad" food, I try not to use that language any more. I make choices that are healthier for me, choices that my body does or doesn't respond well to. I refuse to beat myself up over any of this now and am not a "bad" person no matter what I eat. That said, the reality is that if I want to be a healthy weight, I need to make healthy choices and exercise regularly, so I praise and reward myself for doing those things consistently, and when I get off track, I give myself a reality check that doesn't involve negative self talk but does reinforce my goals and consequences .

Hahahahahaaa! Oh my God, I posted this and then re-read it and realized I need to put a HUGE disclaimer on here. It should say, "when I have my Sh#t together, which is rarely, I do all this"!!! If I truly was this together, I'd be thin by now!!! Work in progress. Start where you are; Use what you have; Do what you can.

KarenZen

Rat, LOVE the idea of a gratitude journal!

debunny34

I totally wish I had of read this yesterday before we went out for dinner. I am an addict also, but there isn't really a trigger food for me. It is everything!! My husband and I talked and decided that we would have one "cheat" day a month, and yesterday was it. We went out to Golden Corral buffet, and the rest is history. I felt absolutely horrible for the rest of the evening. We both overate and wanted to kick ourselves for completely losing it like we did. I was so embarrassed and ashamed that I didn't even want to put my foods on my diary. I did end up putting them on there and boy was it an eye-opener!! A MASSIVE amount of calories...all for nothing. Just one friggin meal that made me feel horrible because I ate too much. Thankfully by the time we started desserts I was already getting full so I only took a bite out of all of the desserts piled on my plate, except the bread pudding there, I think I could be exploding and I would still make room for that stuff....ugh. When I got home, I read this article and thought to myself how that may have helped me before I went. I forwarded it also to my husband so that he can read it this evening when he gets home. On the way home last night, as we were both miserable, he actually came out and said, you know, we can't do this anymore. I agreed and told him I felt like all the work I have been doing trying to keep track of calories and move more, would be thrown out of the window if we do crap like that to ourselves anymore. So thankfully, I think it making us so miserable may have been the key for us to know we CAN NOT do buffet's.

I can totally relate though to being a food addict. If it is there and I even semi-like it, I WILL eat it. So for us, that means we can't have the unhealthy things in our house at all. I hope one day we get strong enough to be able to moderate our eating and actually be able to go out to a buffet again, but I know it will not happen any time soon. If we go out, it will have to be a restaurant that has some healthier choices, and you get one plate of food.

KarenZen

Bunny, good for you for putting that food in your food diary! And writing about it here. My husband and I have had some of those never again moments too. Guess what? We still go out and can eat a healthier meal and love being waited on and enjoy each other's company. And have more energy to fool around after because we aren't full to bursting with food, LOL!!!

I'm trying to rethink this idea of" cheat" or" treat" to see what it might look like for me too.

debunny34

LOL Karen, maybe that is how I need to look at it also, about not being so full so we can fool around after !!! I know neither of us even wanted to move last night when we got home; much less fool around haha. Definitely a new way to think when we go out I will be telling him that one when he gets home this evening to maybe motivate us both a little more into not cheating lol