Newbie to 75km Ultra??
taeliesyn
Posts: 1,116 Member
Ok so I know there is a wealth of knowledge here, so I figured I would try and draw on it.
I've been asked if I am interested in a 75km run next year (Fundraising run). I am putting some thought into it, but I worry I may break down in the ramp up to it.
Ok my 'stats' are
34yr old male. Picked up a Couch 2 5km program in august last year. Finished it mid October. I've been intermittent with my training since, but when I do run I'm around 20-25km per week. I've never run 10km without a walk break, but I haven't pushed to do it yet either.
Am I mad for even considering a 75km ultra with a year to prep for it?
I've been asked if I am interested in a 75km run next year (Fundraising run). I am putting some thought into it, but I worry I may break down in the ramp up to it.
Ok my 'stats' are
34yr old male. Picked up a Couch 2 5km program in august last year. Finished it mid October. I've been intermittent with my training since, but when I do run I'm around 20-25km per week. I've never run 10km without a walk break, but I haven't pushed to do it yet either.
Am I mad for even considering a 75km ultra with a year to prep for it?
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Replies
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Oh wow... How many months away is this? Is it in a trail? Are most of your runs currently in trails? For a 75k ultra, you would most likely not be running the entire way even if you were a pretty experienced runner. I think it could be possible. You are a big dreamer
I'm running my first 50k in 6 days then my first 50 miler in 4 months... I have ran 6 marathons, but 3 years ago is never ran over 4 miles. Idk, you could be healthy & ready if all the stars aleign... Feel free to add! 0 -
I would take a year to work up to a marathon first, then later a 50K, then later move up in distances. It's not impossible but you may put yourself on the road to injury. And there's a lot of other things to consider with ultras like a much different set of equipment needed, drop bags, crew support, etc. I've heard the book "Relentless Forward Progress" is pretty good (going to order a copy myself today).0
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Hiya,
I'm hugely inexperienced too but would you not even consider doing it in baby steps? so a few more 5, 10's, 1/2 marathons..see how you get on with them and then may be go for something bigger...
I am running ( nearly) a year have done a good few 10's a half and looking forward to my second half, for me it will probably be next year before I do a marathon no matter something as big as 75k.
My fear would be that you would do it or part of it completely hate the experience simply because you were not physically and mentally ready and then walk away from running altogether which would be a shame.0 -
but would you not even consider doing it in baby steps? so a few more 5, 10's, 1/2 marathons.
My fear would be that you would do it or part of it completely hate the experience simply because you were not physically and mentally ready and then walk away from running altogether which would be a shame.
OP obviously would progress from where he is now to
10k, half, full, then 75k I'd suggest.. Although he does not need to actually complete "races" in all these distances.
I'd recommend a timeline to you based on the date of your 75k.. Certain "benchmarks" you should be hitting to ensure you are physically prepared.0 -
I'll say it: you're nuts.
Even if you could maintain a nonstop 10min mi pace for 75K from the fitness level you're at now, you're looking at nearly 8hrs on your feet. A more realistic, yet still idealistic, 13min mi pace, would yield a 10hr finish. If the cause means that much to you, go for it.
I'd rather do door-to-door selling of wrapping paper and mixed nuts... in Compton.0 -
I'll say it: you're nuts.
Even if you could maintain a nonstop 10min mi pace for 75K from the fitness level you're at now, you're looking at nearly 8hrs on your feet. A more realistic, yet still idealistic, 13min mi pace, would yield a 10hr finish. If the cause means that much to you, go for it.
I'd rather do door-to-door selling of wrapping paper and mixed nuts... in Compton.
10 min per mile? I don't even think I'll be remotely close to that & I've BQed... My goal is 12/mile.. OP, I'd assume would be looking at more around 16/mile if not slower... Realistically, you'd be looking to finish in the allotted time allowed. You'd be running from sunrise to sunset most likely.
There is a lot of discouragement around new runners trying ultras or marathons in the distance runner community. I say, if you want it, go for it. It's going to be basically your entire life from now until the race, but if it's what you reAlly want to do, yes, you are totally capable if you are smart about training & manage to stay healthy for it.0 -
The recommendations I've seen for new runners generally suggest a couple of years before your first marathon, so that seems really aggressive to me. The year after, yes. I think you'd have enough time to build up to the distance.0
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Isn’t pretty much every walking/running event (from 1 mile walks up) involved with some charity or another? Charity alone isn't a good reason to to risk your health to run nearly 47 miles in a day – this sort of race should be the culmination of years of disciplined preparation, progressing methodically through increasingly longer distances, not an impulsive “hey this sounds cool” type of endeavor.0
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No way. You're asking for an overuse injury. I strongly discourage this.0
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I echo most of the sentiments here. It depends a lot on your personality and the nature of the race. But, for the average runner and the average kind of ultra, this sounds like a really, really big jump.0
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I also don't think it's a good idea.
I did my first first marathon within a year of starting to run - big mistake. I ended up with overuse problems in my feet and finally an injury that took me off running for three months. It takes a long time to build up the muscles and endurance and train your body for the pounding it's going to take. I am considering a 50K next summer and by that time I will have three years of running and a few marathons behind me.0 -
Ok so I know there is a wealth of knowledge here, so I figured I would try and draw on it.
I've been asked if I am interested in a 75km run next year (Fundraising run). I am putting some thought into it, but I worry I may break down in the ramp up to it.
Ok my 'stats' are
34yr old male. Picked up a Couch 2 5km program in august last year. Finished it mid October. I've been intermittent with my training since, but when I do run I'm around 20-25km per week. I've never run 10km without a walk break, but I haven't pushed to do it yet either.
Am I mad for even considering a 75km ultra with a year to prep for it?
"Who dares, wins." (That's from your side of the pond…)
As a new runner, you will have a very hard time understanding if you're feeling pain from the normal process of overload//repair or if the pains you will feel are because you are developing an overuse injury that will bring you to a screeching, screaming halt.
Within a year you could see a good improvement in your cardiovascular system so the "engine" will get markedly better but you will also need to improve "the chassis" and that takes lots of time, even at your young age.
A big question, for me anyway, would how would you feel (emotionally) if you started training for this, spent 3, 6 or 8 months training and then got hit with an injury that caused you to drop out of the race?
Another question - why do you want to take on something that's so demanding? Is this somethings that's a "Wow, would that be cool!" or is it something that may become an historical moment in your life?0 -
I would be hesitant to try this race. There is a ton of training to do to be ready for a race of this magnitude. Work your way up to it. Take your time at different distances. You'll know when you are ready for it but I think a year is too soon.0
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originally i thought that this would be totally do-able. But then i stopped to think! It took me 18 months to go from sitting on the couch to doing my first full- and my training for that entire time was planned, methodical and rigorous. Also, i never trained with the intention of running the full. My first goal was the 5k, then as that loomed i thought i could reach for the 10k, etc.
I think that training for 75k would be killer. you would run the risk of never seeing anybody for over a year, because all of your spare time will be taken up with training. It's bad enough for a full, but for a 75k you'd have to ramp it up even further. I also think that you run the risk not only of injury, but to outrun your love of running. Which will make it really difficult to get up and run when you'd rather cut off your own feet.
But good luck with it. You'll already know what you want to do, so whether youre game enough to crack on with it or sensible enough to aim for the following year, have fun!0 -
Ok mega reply coming up, thanks for the feedback everyone!
No argument here!I'll say it: you're nuts.
Oh wow... How many months away is this? Is it in a trail? Are most of your runs currently in trails? For a 75k ultra, you would most likely not be running the entire way even if you were a pretty experienced runner. I think it could be possible. You are a big dreamer I'm running my first 50k in 6 days then my first 50 miler in 4 months... I have ran 6 marathons, but 3 years ago is never ran over 4 miles. Idk, you could be healthy & ready if all the stars aleign... Feel free to add!
It's 50 weeks away, yup already worked that out. Yes it is a trail ultra, though it's a fundraising run, more than a competitive ultra marathon. Probably 25% of my runs currently are trail and it's easy for me to increase that (Turn right at point X, rather than go straight on LOL)
I do a 5k most weeks, not full blown race but a bit more than a training run (the joys of parkrun!!I'm hugely inexperienced too but would you not even consider doing it in baby steps? so a few more 5, 10's, 1/2 marathons..see how you get on with them and then may be go for something bigger...
) I haven't done proper 10k's or above, but I do do OCR's (Tough Mudder, Spartan etc) so the time on the feet for those distances isn't a major concern
This is actually one of my concernsAs a new runner, you will have a very hard time understanding if you're feeling pain from the normal process of overload//repair or if the pains you will feel are because you are developing an overuse injury that will bring you to a screeching, screaming halt.
probably pretty shatteredA big question, for me anyway, would how would you feel (emotionally) if you started training for this, spent 3, 6 or 8 months training and then got hit with an injury that caused you to drop out of the race?
I'm a bit crazy and love a challenge. I'm sure I'll end up doing it one day, even if I don't do it next year.Another question - why do you want to take on something that's so demanding? Is this somethings that's a "Wow, would that be cool!" or is it something that may become an historical moment in your life?
It will be about 20 months from when I hit 5k to when the ultra would be.originally i thought that this would be totally do-able. But then i stopped to think! It took me 18 months to go from sitting on the couch to doing my first full- and my training for that entire time was planned, methodical and rigorous. Also, i never trained with the intention of running the full. My first goal was the 5k, then as that loomed i thought i could reach for the 10k, etc.
I think that training for 75k would be killer. you would run the risk of never seeing anybody for over a year, because all of your spare time will be taken up with training. It's bad enough for a full, but for a 75k you'd have to ramp it up even further. I also think that you run the risk not only of injury, but to outrun your love of running. Which will make it really difficult to get up and run when you'd rather cut off your own feet.
But good luck with it. You'll already know what you want to do, so whether you're game enough to crack on with it or sensible enough to aim for the following year, have fun!
Seriously thanks for the advice everyone
Going by the program I've designed (basically Bridge to 10k, then an abridged version of Hal Higdons Novice Supreme,(cut the first 8 weeks out).Then a 20week 80m ultra program) I've got about 5 months until I am up to the 60ish a week with a 25km long run.
It's a Rotary team challenge. I'm not even sure if I will be in the team yet (Quick way to kill the idea) But the question was put to me if I would be interested. I'm not sure what the plan is for the run. I believe it may be run 10km/walk 1 or something along those lines.
I'm sure it's not a proper race, though there would be some race aspect. There is a run option & a walk option. A team of friends did the 50km walk last year and apparently rocked it, and are being guided to the 75km run. One of the ground crew is who asked me about doing the 75km run.
I'll keep my training up until I know what the go is, at which point I'll probably find a coach to at least look over the program I've made up, if I'm invited to the team.0 -
I didn't read the other replies. I jumped from half marathon to 55k pretty quickly, then 50 miler right after. It's not impossible. Plus no one runs the whole way in an ultra, even the elite runners. I know, I've seen the winners chilling at the aid stations. Think about 8 hrs for a trail 50 miler for the winner.(depending on the course, obviously).
a newbie could easily take between 12-15 hrs (some course have limits though, if a longer race isn't being run concurrently)
Read Relentless Forward Progress, it's pretty good and has some training plans that will give you an idea of what you'll have to do to do the bare minimum of training (for finishing without injury). for my first few ultras I was only putting in about 30 miles per week, mostly less than that, on 4 runs per week. The important runs (for finishing) were doing back to back long runs 18-22 miles one day, 10-15 the next. all that's covered in the book though.
Good luck on whatever you decide. If you want to motivate yourself, go the finish line about 3 hours before the cutoff for a 50 mile race. you'll be so surprised at how many absolutely ordinary people can do such amazingly extraordinary things. 0 -
I went from Couch to 50K in less than a year so it is possible. That said you will need to be 100% dedicated to the goal of finishing the race or it won't happen. You are right to be worried about the training; it will be tough. It is possible just not probable. I would recommend going out and volunteering at an ultra to see what you are in for before you commit to anything.0
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Thanks to everyone for the advice, anecdotes and new friends.
I've decided that pushing for a 75km ultra will take too much time for training and that I may indeed, not be able to tell the difference between an over use injury and just the plain old pain from racking up those miles.
I'm still going to push forward with my training. Finish off the Bridge to 10k program, stabilise training for a few weeks and then push onto either a 15k or half marathon plan and continue from there. I'm sure I'll find a race or somewhere in there to aim towards.0 -
Thanks to everyone for the advice, anecdotes and new friends.
I've decided that pushing for a 75km ultra will take too much time for training and that I may indeed, not be able to tell the difference between an over use injury and just the plain old pain from racking up those miles.
I'm still going to push forward with my training. Finish off the Bridge to 10k program, stabilise training for a few weeks and then push onto either a 15k or half marathon plan and continue from there. I'm sure I'll find a race or somewhere in there to aim towards.
Great plan. Best of luck to you as you build mileage. Running is a lifetime activity, like tennis. There is no need to rush into all the races right away. Do this the right way and you'll be running for a long time.0 -
Forgive me all if any of this is repetitious but I have not read all of the other responses.
It is difficult to give any conclusive answer about whether it is right for you to do the 75k as it kind of depends on what level of base fitness and endurance you have. Now I know you have only just started running but have you done any kind of endurance activity (riding a bike, anything) before for a sustained period of time? This will give an indication of your level of endurance. Of course you have a year in which to build this endurance and this is predominantly what you will be doing.
Important things about ultras. Very few people will run an entire ultra. Usual is for people to stomp-walk the uphills and trot the flat and downhills.
You do NOT train for an ultra run like you train for a marathon. You do NOT try and hit peak ultra distance in training like you do with a marathon. For an inexperienced runner, to do this you would create injuries that would inevitably prevent you from doing the race. You are not going to try and win it I assume and therefore this is an act of getting round as it will be for all but those fighting for podiums.
In ultra training it is not all about running. For instance, whilst it is obviously important for you to keep running in training, this will not be the only thing you do. You should also strength train at least once a week (dead-lifts, squats, lunges classically) and possibly two if you are up to it. It is also perfectly acceptable and often better for you to run shorter runs throughout the week (1-2 hours) but instead of the marathoners long run, you can load up a back pack and hike for a few hours. It is important that you get used to wearing a backpack so wear it all the time with the kit that you will be required to carry. Quite quickly your brain will forget you are wearing a pack, it will just be normal.
Classic ultra training plan would look a bit like this: Day off Monday | 1-2 hours Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday | Day off Friday | 6-7 hours (hiking, hike/trot or trot) Saturday | & 4-5 hours (hike, hike/trot or trot) on Sunday. Weights can be done on a day off or a short run day. It must also be said that for a newbie, the long distance back-to-back weekends should only be every two or three weeks as you will find them fatiguing. It is for you to judge.
If you don't have a big endurance base built over at least a couple of years then most certainly there is no call for speed work because what you are trying to achieve is a big endurance base. Speedwork is for increasing your speed and lactate threshold, neither of which will be required as a newbie. Of course increasing one's lactate threshold is always good but it is not for now as speedwork/intervals etc will knacker you out and take away from your steady base training. Train in your zone 2 heart rate and when you race your heart should stay in your zone 1-2 heart rate which will allow you to eek out your fuel. As for fuel, well that's another message!!
In terms of can you do it. Yes. It will be harder than I suspect you think it will be because only putting your body into that place and dealing with the head stuff and fatigue etc can be understood once you have done it but you only get experience by trying. It is worth accepting also that many seasoned ultra runners DNF too. Until you are there, you cannot completely tell what will happen to your body once you get into ultra time. But yes I would say with a year and doing the right training you can do it. Final word is that the training is only a part contributor to your success at ultra, the mental stuff is definitely the greatest determinant of how you get on...and you don't know how that is going to play out until the day!!0 -
Great plan. Best of luck to you as you build mileage. Running is a lifetime activity, like tennis. There is no need to rush into all the races right away. Do this the right way and you'll be running for a long time.
Thanks Carson. My initial plan when I got into running more than just finishing C25K was a 10k within the first year, HM in the second and a FM in the 3rd year at the earliest. It may change, but I'm not going to rush into things.0 -
Great plan. Best of luck to you as you build mileage. Running is a lifetime activity, like tennis. There is no need to rush into all the races right away. Do this the right way and you'll be running for a long time.
Damn, Carson, well said!
Enjoy the journey. 75k races will still be there in a couple of years.0 -
Late to enter this thread, but I'd agree that you should try to move forward gradually.
After a year of running intervals 20-25 minutes (about 10 each running and fast walking on the treadmill) at a time a few times a week I started Couch to 5K last winter. Eventually moved on, did a 10K a month ago, and am now training for a half-marathon in July. I'd like to move on to a marathon but will likely hold off doing so until next year.
I'd say progress slowly and if you feel like moving onto an ultra (which is essentially 2 marathons) that sort of race will still be there in another year or two.0 -
Have you read the book "Ultramarathon Man" ? I have a feeling you would like it 0
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I didn't read the other replies. I jumped from half marathon to 55k pretty quickly, then 50 miler right after. It's not impossible. Plus no one runs the whole way in an ultra, even the elite runners. I know, I've seen the winners chilling at the aid stations. Think about 8 hrs for a trail 50 miler for the winner.(depending on the course, obviously).
a newbie could easily take between 12-15 hrs (some course have limits though, if a longer race isn't being run concurrently)
Read Relentless Forward Progress, it's pretty good and has some training plans that will give you an idea of what you'll have to do to do the bare minimum of training (for finishing without injury). for my first few ultras I was only putting in about 30 miles per week, mostly less than that, on 4 runs per week. The important runs (for finishing) were doing back to back long runs 18-22 miles one day, 10-15 the next. all that's covered in the book though.
Good luck on whatever you decide. If you want to motivate yourself, go the finish line about 3 hours before the cutoff for a 50 mile race. you'll be so surprised at how many absolutely ordinary people can do such amazingly extraordinary things.
I'm with her^^^. I think you can do it, if you invest in the training time. Make sure that as you are doing your long run training, that you keep to the trails for the long runs, and walk the uphills, relax and coast down hills (don't brace or your quads will be angry, and do an easy jog on the flats. Enjoy the journey. Remember that this is far different from marathon training.
Read this, if you don't buy RFP (but if you do decide on the 75k, definitely buy the book!): http://www.extremeultrarunning.com/1stultra.htm
The author, David Horton, is an incredible runner and has coached many students in his advanced running class through their first ultramarathon. He posted the FKT (fastest known time) on the pacific crest trail, and is the race director of several ultras.
My personal running timeline: first run (3mi) 3/24/12, first 13.1 8/5/12, first 26.2 3/16/13, first 50k (training run) 4/20/13, first 50mi 6/1/13. Since then I have completed 2 more official 50ks (plus several 30+mi training runs,) another 50 miler, and a 24h timed race where I completed 75 miles and finished 4th female. I intend to win the ultra series that includes an 8hr timed race, the 24, an overnight 50 miler, and a 12h timed event. I have been running two years and two months, and I will have my first 100miler in August. So my perspective is that with 50 weeks, 75k is completely doable.
Volunteer at an ultra. See what it's like. Aim to volunteer near the end of the course. It is a different sort of struggle than a 10k. I just did my first short distance race 10 days ago (a 5miler) and it was HARD. Not hard for long, but very different from an ultra. An ultra is certainly about training, but more about perseverance. And paying attention to your physical state/keeping yourself comfortable over long stretches of time, especially if you will be encountering extreme weather conditions. Get a good pair of shoes. I HIGHLY recommend Hokas. I went from an Asics gel nimbus to hokas, and the foot pain I experienced on runs longer than 20 miles went away, my legs felt fresher after long runs...they are amazing if you plan to cover distance.
And just remember that a 50 miler (80k) is not as hard as two marathons. It's different. Not as intense as a marathon- unless you are front of the pack- and not as strenuous on a minute by minute basis. Even in your training, you'll walk, and that's ok. I had a friend who finished his first 100miler 5 weeks ago, and he did an 8:2 run/walk with some 7:3 in rough spots...he actually finished 10th overall out of 100+ starters and first in his age group.
Whatever you ultimately decide, good luck!0
