WLS and addiction transfer

murphyraven

http://leafinc.org/179-2/

This subject has been on my mind ever since my first psych evaluation. I am only in my first month of dieting but I really want to do some in depth thinking on why I am addicted to food and how I can be honest with myself once I don't have the ability to eat like I used to. I'm pretty sure I am in a good state of mind about what I am taking on, plus I have fantastic support from my husband.

That said, if anyone has personal experience with addition transfer who wouldn't mind sharing their story I'd be grateful. Or maybe a moment where they realized they were headed down the path of addiction transfer and how they realized and managed to overcome.

pawoodhull

I personally never thought I was addicted except maybe to a few foods like ice cream. I ate what I wanted, when I wanted and the amount I wanted, becasue I was bored, sad, angry, happy, hungry, or just because it sounded/smelled good and I wanted it. Maybe that's more denial on my part, but I don't consider eating what and when and the amount I chose to addiction, just indulgence on my part. That said, I have a few foods that prior to surgery I just could not control myself with, like the ice cream, so I have chosen not to reintroduce them into my life since surgery. I don't miss them nor do I crave them. I don't feel deprived either, because I don't eat them by choice, my choice. And that's also why I hesitate to call my love of ice cream an additcion. I don't crave it, not even a little bit since the surgery.

What's changed since surgery? I no longer want to eat when stressed, upset, angray or just in a "I don't care about anything" mood. In fact, when I get like that I won't eat. If that means I don't get in what I need nutritionally for the day, I don't. Example, the husband and I had a huge fight a few weeks ago on a Sunday. If you look at my food log for the day you will see a snack of a bowl of Pumkin Flax Granola and milk. That's the only food on the log because that is truly all I ate that day and I only had that because I was light headed from not eating in almost 24 hours. I just didn't care.

What I still suffer from is "head hunger". Wanting to eat sometimes even if I'm not hungry or even sometimes when I'm still full from a meal. Please note, I said "wanting to eat" not "needing to eat" and to me, that's a big difference. And yes, I can tell head hunger from real hunger, and because I can, it makes it much easier to avoid.

I know there are some here who truly have food addictions. But I think some of us were obese because we chose to eat whatever, whenever, and never exercised. I can't blame my obseity on anything more than extreme overeating consistently and never exercising and making every excuse in the book about why I "couldn't" lose weight without even really trying until I was over 300 pounds and then having nothing work until WLS.

I don't know if this reply helped but there are others on here who can really speak to the adiction issue better than I can.

garber6th

When I got to 382 lbs, I had a moment of "WTF did I do to myself? This isn't normal." I started seeing a therapist shortly after that. I guess I hit my "rock bottom", combined with a lot of fear of not lasting on this earth much longer if I didn't change. I knew I needed help. saw my therapist for a year before I even felt ready to THINK about WLS. It's hard to say why one person or another is addicted to food, because we have all had different experiences, but I know that dealing with things I should have dealt with long ago helped me clear my head and see how I was using food to medicate myself. I don't feel that I transferred my addiction - I dealt with it and the issues I had connected with it, and it kind of became a non-issue. My therapist gave me tools to use to work though any feelings or situations that might have led me to bad decisions with food. If anything, now, I am addicted to a healthier lifestyle. I am totally ok with that.

murphyraven

You make a good point, Pawoodhull. Saying I am addicted to food isn't correct for the true definition of "addicted". I'm sure I medicate via food for emotions/stress/boredom and will be working to address those habits.

Because I was warned by the psychologist about transferal addiction I was more trying to prepare myself for what I might possibly have to face after WLS. Fortunately, the place I am getting the surgery from has a 2 year care program included to make sure it sticks, as well as some support groups in my area.

rpyle111

Our information session touched on the high percentage of folks that turn to alcohol after surgery. Not sure if it is related to an addiction transfer or more tied to the other thread on post-surgery depression, but it was certainly something that made me sit up and pay attention.

authorwriter

I've had the impression that addictive personalities might turn to alcohol, or drugs, I suppose, to fill the void that food used to. I'm sure all of us who are overweight, from holding onto an extra 20 pounds to super morbidly obese have a certain addiction to food, or at the very least, an inability to stop when we've had enough. I'm not sure that translates into an addiction. I know that I was hungry all the time, like a teenager, but without the metabolism. And I do know that I ate well past full if I was eating a food I really liked. But I do know that often those hunger signals were real because I would eat what was available, even stuff I might not have normally really cared for, when I was truly hungry.

I do know that since the surgery, there are times I wish I COULD eat because the food tastes good, but I don't have that constant hunger monster driving at me. I am hungry in the morning, but once I have breakfast, those hunger feelings are sparse and fleeting, so long as I eat on a regular schedule. What fills me up now and tames the hunger monster? Half a veggie burger and a poached egg. About 150 calories worth. I'm still a member of the Clean Plate Club, but there's a whole lot less on the plate and I'm not going back for seconds.

I think if people know themselves to be addictive, they've had issues with alcohol or nicotine, or other drugs, they know it going into WLS. On the bright side, that addiction might transfer to something healthy, like exercise or quilt-making, gardening or writing.

msleelee35

I can honestly say that I'm not addicted to food. What I did notice is that I made really bad choices of what I ate and when I ate it. For example: I seem to couple watching a good tv show with snacking on a good snack. After surgery, I knew I had to make better decisions. Although it may be okay to couple those two things, I now try not to. If by chance I desire to watch tv and eat a snack, it's a healthier choice. Something like a piece of cheese, half of my protein bar, or not at all especially since I'm generally doing this at night and will not have the chance to burn the calories off. I've found that drinking water or crunching on ice helps with that crave as well. It's really about choice for me but only you know if you're actually addicted to something. If you are addicted, I encourage you to get the help you need now because as you know, the surgery is only a tool. You still have to do the work.

garber6th

Saying I am addicted to food isn't correct for the true definition of "addicted". I'm sure I medicate via food for emotions/stress/boredom and will be working to address those habits.

The term "addiction" seems a little loose and maybe even a little strong, but I think most of us that have had, or are planning to have surgery, have done a lot of what you mentioned - using food for emotion/stress/boredom etc. I think maybe instead of addiction, we can think of it as habit, and we all need to change the habit if we want to be successful.

pawoodhull

Saying I am addicted to food isn't correct for the true definition of "addicted". I'm sure I medicate via food for emotions/stress/boredom and will be working to address those habits.

The term "addiction" seems a little loose and maybe even a little strong, but I think most of us that have had, or are planning to have surgery, have done a lot of what you mentioned - using food for emotion/stress/boredom etc. I think maybe instead of addiction, we can think of it as habit, and we all need to change the habit if we want to be successful.

True words!

rpyle111

My version of 'addiction' (I never really think of my relationship with food as an addiction, though) is best seen with things like plates of cookies or donuts at work.

Talking with close coworkers/friends who are thin, we have discussed how fat people view that plate of yummy things very differently. We would all get one, but I would constantly be thinking of having another one, the only thing stopping me was the fact that others might comment or think badly of me for having more. The thin folks, however, seem to have one and that was it. They never gave the stuff a second thought. I would find a reason to go back into the conference room after folks left to have another, sneak a second one, etc.

That's the kind of behavior I could see being called an addiction. That conversation (a few years ago) helped me to understand a lot about myself. Now, I feel proud that I could have one if I wanted, but it would cause an impact to what i could eat later and stay at/under my goal.

therejohn

I rarely post to the forum and a dissenting opinion is not an easy post, but I am going to go out on a limb and disagree, at least with the majority of those who have replied.

I do think most of us are addicted to food. By definition, addiction is a condition that results when a person ingests a substance (alcohol, cocaine, nicotine) or engages in an activity (eating) that can be pleasurable but the continued use of which becomes compulsive and interferes with ordinary life responsibilities, such as work or relationships, or HEALTH.

Being morbidly obese impacted my relationships, my job and most certainly my health. I'd bet my next paycheck if answering honestly, most would answer the same.

Food is meant to fuel our bodies, and eating because we don't want to or can't face emotions or because we are lonely, bored, etc. is an unhealthy and addictive behavior.

Do WLS patients transfer the addiction? I don't know, but I can tell you one year post op I still struggle with managing emotional eating (we can still eat the wrong foods, even if in smaller portions). Now when I get stressed, I go work out. It's good for me, but if used to avoid emotion, it is a type of transfer.

None of us became morbidly obese by making healthy choices and we most certainly did not use food as only fuel for our bodies. As such the logical conclusion is we are/were addicted to food. Each of us has our own demons to face and overcome if we will maintain our weight loss well into our futures.

I wish you the very best!!!

pookeyism

One of the trickiest things with this journey is failing to weigh (pun intended) every aspect of what is happening with the serious evaluation and contemplation it deserves. The misunderstanding of transfer addiction in the process of losing weight – whether or not you had surgery – is important to understand.
There is a book The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business by Charles Duhigg.
I recommend reading that book inside and out and again. It does not go directly into addiction but gives a very sound understanding to habits, why they exist, how they exist and why they recur or sometimes won’t stick no matter how bad you want a habit to do so.
A lot of people only think of an addictive personality in people who are already, in some way falls into what their perception of an addict is. However, whether or not you have been overweight all your life, or intermittently, or just recently gained that first substantial amount that will not come off, you have the makings of an addictive personality. There are many people that can point out disability, or medications, work or even a metabolism that refuses to catch fire as a part of the reason for being obese – but only a part. Whether or not you ate badly or just a lot of the healthy foods, you overate – you overate for your needs. One person’s overindulgence might be 4,800 calories a day and another 2000, but you are where you are because you could not set a base limit and stick to it. Overindulgence. Tripping some sort of pleasure principle that you could not give up – not unwilling – could not. Addiction. “I can stop whenever I want” so said the alcoholic. So said the 300 lbs. future WLSer.
There is no shame in this – only opportunity. Once you can begin to understand and accept that you need more change than you alone can produce, which you have done by opting for WLS, you are already well on your way to addressing this issue.
Now – this is not accusatory! This is just a part of understanding what a possibility of a transfer addiction means – and how it could, possibly apply to you. Unfortunately there is much more out there to transfer your feeding on than a literal drug. Some people transfer to cutting themselves, shopping, promiscuity, exercise, the internet, passive-aggressive behavior, etc. the list goes on.
Basically the important thing is being aware, and being observant. Making sure the things you are doing when you would have been eating are positive for you.
What your needs are, to understand and be mindful of this and successful in that, will vary from the person next to you. This is one of the things you have to look in yourself much more than look out. This is the problem that hits you while you are in the weigh-loss high, and therefore doesn't hide in a shadow, it is overlooked in the bright sunshine of an emerging you.
Good luck.
VSG’er since 01/04/2012

authorwriter

There was a commercial a few years back of people who were quitting smoking trying to do simple tasks. I laughed until tears rolled down my cheeks because I remember being at a loss when I quit smoking. I sat down at my desk and it was like I didn't even know what to do because lighting a cigarette was code for "Ready. Set. Go!"

My morning coffee lost its savor. I left things in rooms and couldn't remember where I'd put it, go to get something and leave emptyhanded. And driving...ANYWHERE? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I was a mess without that little cylinder between my fingertips or my lips.

THAT's what life post-surgery is like. For me, there's been an impulse to order take-out from that new place on the next block, but...no, I can't. Or to sit down to a movie with the family and be uncertain what to do with my hands because dipping them into a bowl of popcorn wasn't an option. I scour the grocery ads every week like I used to, but now I'm only looking for the family because much as I love mango, I can only eat a small portion of a single fruit, and steak won't be on my personal menu for months. Even vegetables are necessarily limited by the size of my stomach. I used to walk into the garden and eat a whole tomato straight off the vine.

It's not torture. It's just...different. And I hope the difference stays. I hope I always feel different.

And thinking about that got me thinking about whether or not food truly was an addiction for me. Seeing people's further explanations here, I have to say that it was. If the bombs were falling and the zombies walking, I'd be really upset if all I could find was a bottle of olives. Not sure I'd deck a little old lady to get to the last box of Cheerios, but I'll bet the temptation would have been pretty darned strong.

Now? Notsomuch. A bottle of olives could last a while with a sleeved stomach.

relentless2121

I'm on the same page as therejohn.

I turned to food to numb the pain of childhood trauma at a very young age. I didn't get to 321 lbs. without not being about to stop eating. Like any other addiction, once you have gone overboard with a habit from occasional or recreational to dependency, that is the definition of addiction. Step 1 in any 12 step program is that (alcohol, drugs, food, gambling) has made my life unmanageable.

I am 49 years old and absolutely feel blessed to be given the gift of being sleeved in a few months.I have been working very hard to prepare myself and my mindset for surgery. I know that the surgery (or anything else) won't fix the problem for life. I am in recovery for another addiction and have 6 years of abstinence. I feel blessed to be a 12 Stepper and have a great support system.

These past 6 years I have tried program after program to try and lose weight. I think my body is resistant to losing weight at this point since I have yoyo dieted all my life. I can't seem to get past losing 10 or 15 lbs and then I get so frustrated because I am trying so hard.

I'm not looking to debate anything or offend anyone here. Just offering my own experience as I do identify with being a "Compulsive Overeater." I learned that term when I attended Overeaters Anonymous for a few years.

It doesn't seem to matter how little I eat at this point. I know that I can't do it on my own and every time I try I seem to set myself up for more failure and disappointment.

Now I don't want people reading this to think that I currently eat what I want, when I want and how much I want. But like my other addiction that I am in recovery for and have 6 years of abstinence, I will always consider myself to be a compulsive overeater. From what I have learned, once we are at the dependency stage, there is no going back to controlled use (and I'm not talking about anyone's current weight or or eating habits). Not living in the problem is called living a life of recovery. Once we have gone overboard with food, it is my belief that we can easily slip back into it. Unless you are in recovery and working your program and have a great support system.

I don't expect everyone here to agree with me. But I am a 12 Stepper, and if not for "therejohn's" post, I wasn't going to write this for fear of offending others.

This is my journey and how I have come to understand my relationship with food after much therapy and 12 Step Meetings.
I hope and pray that the surgery will help alleviate the food obsession I've lived with all my life, but I'm not relying or counting on that. I know that in order to be successful in recovery it's a lot of hard work and this journey is for life.

I haven't had the surgery yet, but I have heard others talk about how it doesn't change the mind. It's only a tool and we must do our part and continue to do our part to have continued success. Of course not everyday is going to be perfect, we are human. It's the coping strategies we must be develop to be kind to ourselves, forgive ourselves and not let the shame and guilt consume us.

If you are interested in finding out more about food addiction, a good website to check out is www.oa.org
Their view is that just like an alcoholic having one drink, when a Compulsive Overeater eats trigger foods like sugar and carbs, it can wake up that sleeping dragon within us (or the beast) and set off compulsive overeating. They preach abstinence from trigger foods.
Just as an alcoholic cannot only have 1 drink, many of us cannot stop at 1 potato chip or cookie.

Hope this helps. Feel free to private message me if you want more information.
Good luck on your journey and I look forward to reading your posts.:flowerforyou:

Mangopickle

When I feel hungry and it is not time to eat I immediately ask myself " Ok self, What is wrong? What is stressing you? You have had your healthy meal, you have not been more active so you cannot possibly be actually hungry" This is my food addiction rearing its head. The desire to medicate stressors with food instead of dealing with them using healthy behaviors.

relentless2121

Thanks Mangopickle. Last night was my last of 4 "Craving Change" classes that is part of my program.
We learned the valuable tool of identifying the 3 stages of Hunger: Stomach Hunger, Mouth Hunger and Heart Hunger.
It was a very valuable strategy to learn in class along with a list of strategies to try when we are have urges.
Have a great weekend everyone and once again thanks for all of your feedback.

MyOwnSunshine

While "addiction" to food probably is not the correct terminology and is often disputed by health care providers and lay people alike, there is definitely a "compulsion" that is driven by reward circuits and neurotransmitter activity in our brains. (See any of Stahl's neuropsychiatry texts for more information.)

I have seen many people in my online WLS support circle succomb to substance abuse (drug and alcohol), excessive sexual promiscuity, have affairs (online and real life), and develop excessive shopping and spending habits. Many have also sunk back into food compulsion and weight gain.

This is a very real deal, and everyone who has WLS should be aware of their post-op behaviors. Again, and like always, get some therapy during the process!

MyOwnSunshine

I also wanted to add that "addiction" is not frequently used in clinical mental health any more. The new DSM-V refers to previous addiction labels as substance abuse labels now because "addiction" has always been poorly defined and difficult to prove. Substance abuse (which includes sex and gambling behaviors) is much easier to diagnose definitively. One can certainly "abuse" food and misuse can certainly cause negative consequences. My opinion is that overeating that results in morbid obesity is a "compulsive behavior" as well and based in the reward circuits and dopamine receptors in our brains.

Mangopickle

http://leafinc.org/179-2/

This subject has been on my mind ever since my first psych evaluation. I am only in my first month of dieting but I really want to do some in depth thinking on why I am addicted to food and how I can be honest with myself once I don't have the ability to eat like I used to. I'm pretty sure I am in a good state of mind about what I am taking on, plus I have fantastic support from my husband.

That said, if anyone has personal experience with addition transfer who wouldn't mind sharing their story I'd be grateful. Or maybe a moment where they realized they were headed down the path of addiction transfer and how they realized and managed to overcome.

Whatever you do don't rely to heavily on the "I won't have the ability to eat like I used to' I could at 6months out return to eating 95% of what I used to albeit more slowly

MyOwnSunshine

http://leafinc.org/179-2/

This subject has been on my mind ever since my first psych evaluation. I am only in my first month of dieting but I really want to do some in depth thinking on why I am addicted to food and how I can be honest with myself once I don't have the ability to eat like I used to. I'm pretty sure I am in a good state of mind about what I am taking on, plus I have fantastic support from my husband.

That said, if anyone has personal experience with addition transfer who wouldn't mind sharing their story I'd be grateful. Or maybe a moment where they realized they were headed down the path of addiction transfer and how they realized and managed to overcome.

Whatever you do don't rely to heavily on the "I won't have the ability to eat like I used to' I could at 6months out return to eating 95% of what I used to albeit more slowly

Agreed. At 3 years out, I can easily eat enough to gain weight. Easily!

garber6th

I also wanted to add that "addiction" is not frequently used in clinical mental health any more. The new DSM-V refers to previous addiction labels as substance abuse labels now because "addiction" has always been poorly defined and difficult to prove. Substance abuse (which includes sex and gambling behaviors) is much easier to diagnose definitively. One can certainly "abuse" food and misuse can certainly cause negative consequences. My opinion is that overeating that results in morbid obesity is a "compulsive behavior" as well and based in the reward circuits and dopamine receptors in our brains.

I was talking to my therapist about this topic and he said the same thing, that addiction might not be the right term to use but compulsion definitely is.