Season 4 Ending
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DanOhh
Posts: 1,806 Member
No Stoneheart, NOONEUNDERSTAAANDS!!!
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Replies
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I'm OK with her not showing up yet, as long as she shows up eventually!
I read a very well-reasoned argument that it's the spirit of Azor Ahai that reanimates people (specifically Beric) and that the spirit passes to Catelyn when they find her body and that it will pass again, probably to Jaime. If that's true and the show leaves her out, we know for sure they're no longer following the books in any way at all and heading to a completely different conclusion, which is what I think is happening, anyway.
They've killed off too many characters that should still be alive for my comfort.0 -
I disagree, they haven't veered off from the books down a different direction. They are still headed the same way just a little off course than the original path. They have killed off minor characters that are still in the books but their actions can be filled by other characters. I'm sure Stoneheart will show eventually, I was just hoping that she would of been the "cliffhanger" for the season like she was in the A Storm of Swords. It would have really knocked TV watchers on their arses.0
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I read somewhere (wish I could recall) where the show producers flat-out stated they were going in a completely different direction. And yesterday I read a GRRM interview that makes it sound very much like he no longer has much say in the way the show is going.I disagree, they haven't veered off from the books down a different direction. They are still headed the same way just a little off course than the original path. They have killed off minor characters that are still in the books but their actions can be filled by other characters. I'm sure Stoneheart will show eventually, I was just hoping that she would of been the "cliffhanger" for the season like she was in the A Storm of Swords. It would have really knocked TV watchers on their arses.
The changes the show is making are not making a better story. Some of them are ridiculous. They claim money and time are an issue, but they had the money and time for that ridiculous Craster's Keep scene this season, which added nothing at all to the story but was a good excuse for some sex and graphic violence, I guess. That's what bugs me,
No one is supposed to know Arya is alive (for sure, anyway) and no one except Sam, Gilly, Rickon and Osha are supposed to know Bran is alive, but now Jon knows. Not that he seems to be concerned with that, which makes no sense ...
I have a feeling the show is going to just forget certain things (Benjen) because they just aren't convenient anymore. I see this show going the way of Lost.0 -
I enjoy the books and I enjoy the show. From what I've read GRRM gives the show his blessing and has even told D&D how the story will end. Obviously, the books are canon and the show parallels fairly close but has to change pace for viewers to keep them interested in certain plot lines. All I know is that I'm still waiting patiently for The Winds of Winter.
Benjen (Coldhands) was missed but not needed, to get Bran north.
One of my concerns is how they will play out the Theon/Reek and Jeyne Poole/Arya storyline since Jeyne was never introduced as a character back during the first season. I suppose they can just use anyone who looks similar to Arya.0 -
This article has a dissenting opinion on the Lady Stoneheart issue. Worth a read just for context: http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/06/15/game-of-thrones-finale-lady-stoneheart/
Also, the producers don't seem terribly fond of Lady Stoneheart so she may not make any appearance at all.0 -
Coldhands is not Benjen. And the show established that he is missing, so if they never revisit that, it's poor writing.I enjoy the books and I enjoy the show. From what I've read GRRM gives the show his blessing and has even told D&D how the story will end. Obviously, the books are canon and the show parallels fairly close but has to change pace for viewers to keep them interested in certain plot lines. All I know is that I'm still waiting patiently for The Winds of Winter.
Benjen (Coldhands) was missed but not needed, to get Bran north.
One of my concerns is how they will play out the Theon/Reek and Jeyne Poole/Arya storyline since Jeyne was never introduced as a character back during the first season. I suppose they can just use anyone who looks similar to Arya.0 -
This article has a dissenting opinion on the Lady Stoneheart issue. Worth a read just for context: http://popwatch.ew.com/2014/06/15/game-of-thrones-finale-lady-stoneheart/
Also, the producers don't seem terribly fond of Lady Stoneheart so she may not make any appearance at all.
There's a very strong theory about Lady Stoneheart that, if correct, the show is screwing the pooch by leaving her out. And since she has only made a slight appearance in the books and her true purpose is still in question, it's a little odd to leave her out entirely. I don't believe that GRRM just throws things in for fun. I think every aspect of the books is important down the road. He has already started tying things together in the books.
As for GRRM being happy about the show, that was the story in the first couple seasons. I read an interview with him that suggests he is no longer on the same page as the show producers and I suspect there will be some problems showing up soon and we may find he isn't as happy as everyone thinks.
I also read that the producers are planning a different ending from what's planned in the books.
As I said, if I felt like the changes were improving the story, I'd be all for them. But they aren't. Sometimes it's painful to watch the added or changed scenes because even the actors seem to be uncomfortable and awkward in them. The quality is definitely nosediving.0 -
I'll go with you on the Coldhands is not Benjen (it's only a theory). But, then why is it so important that they revisit Benjen missing? Benjen only appears in the first book and is only mentioned through the rest of the books every now and then. Why is it poor writing that they don't revisit a character that has gone missing 30 episodes ago?
Coldhands is not Benjen. And the show established that he is missing, so if they never revisit that, it's poor writing.I enjoy the books and I enjoy the show. From what I've read GRRM gives the show his blessing and has even told D&D how the story will end. Obviously, the books are canon and the show parallels fairly close but has to change pace for viewers to keep them interested in certain plot lines. All I know is that I'm still waiting patiently for The Winds of Winter.
Benjen (Coldhands) was missed but not needed, to get Bran north.
One of my concerns is how they will play out the Theon/Reek and Jeyne Poole/Arya storyline since Jeyne was never introduced as a character back during the first season. I suppose they can just use anyone who looks similar to Arya.0 -
I'll go with you on the Coldhands is not Benjen (it's only a theory). But, then why is it so important that they revisit Benjen missing? Benjen only appears in the first book and is only mentioned through the rest of the books every now and then. Why is it poor writing that they don't revisit a character that has gone missing 30 episodes ago?
Coldhands is not Benjen. And the show established that he is missing, so if they never revisit that, it's poor writing.I enjoy the books and I enjoy the show. From what I've read GRRM gives the show his blessing and has even told D&D how the story will end. Obviously, the books are canon and the show parallels fairly close but has to change pace for viewers to keep them interested in certain plot lines. All I know is that I'm still waiting patiently for The Winds of Winter.
Benjen (Coldhands) was missed but not needed, to get Bran north.
One of my concerns is how they will play out the Theon/Reek and Jeyne Poole/Arya storyline since Jeyne was never introduced as a character back during the first season. I suppose they can just use anyone who looks similar to Arya.
Ah ... I see you've never heard, "If there's a gun on the wall in the first act, you better use it by the third act."
You don't set up a mystery like that and then never resolve it. Ever. Bad, amateurish writing.0 -
I'll go with you on the Coldhands is not Benjen (it's only a theory). But, then why is it so important that they revisit Benjen missing? Benjen only appears in the first book and is only mentioned through the rest of the books every now and then. Why is it poor writing that they don't revisit a character that has gone missing 30 episodes ago?
Coldhands is not Benjen. And the show established that he is missing, so if they never revisit that, it's poor writing.I enjoy the books and I enjoy the show. From what I've read GRRM gives the show his blessing and has even told D&D how the story will end. Obviously, the books are canon and the show parallels fairly close but has to change pace for viewers to keep them interested in certain plot lines. All I know is that I'm still waiting patiently for The Winds of Winter.
Benjen (Coldhands) was missed but not needed, to get Bran north.
One of my concerns is how they will play out the Theon/Reek and Jeyne Poole/Arya storyline since Jeyne was never introduced as a character back during the first season. I suppose they can just use anyone who looks similar to Arya.
Ah ... I see you've never heard, "If there's a gun on the wall in the first act, you better use it by the third act."
You don't set up a mystery like that and then never resolve it. Ever. Bad, amateurish writing.
Who says it won't be resolved? It hasn't been resolved in the books.0 -
WHELP
Michelle Fairley seems to confirm: no Lady Stoneheart in the show.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/25/game-of-thrones-lady-stoneheart-michelle-fairley_n_5530215.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular0 -
You asked me a question and I answered it. I don't KNOW if it won't be, but I have seen this pattern in television before and I have a strong feeling it isn't going to be. Obviously, I don't know that for sure. But you asked me specifically why it would be bad writing if they didn't address it and that was the question I was answering.
I'll go with you on the Coldhands is not Benjen (it's only a theory). But, then why is it so important that they revisit Benjen missing? Benjen only appears in the first book and is only mentioned through the rest of the books every now and then. Why is it poor writing that they don't revisit a character that has gone missing 30 episodes ago?
Coldhands is not Benjen. And the show established that he is missing, so if they never revisit that, it's poor writing.I enjoy the books and I enjoy the show. From what I've read GRRM gives the show his blessing and has even told D&D how the story will end. Obviously, the books are canon and the show parallels fairly close but has to change pace for viewers to keep them interested in certain plot lines. All I know is that I'm still waiting patiently for The Winds of Winter.
Benjen (Coldhands) was missed but not needed, to get Bran north.
One of my concerns is how they will play out the Theon/Reek and Jeyne Poole/Arya storyline since Jeyne was never introduced as a character back during the first season. I suppose they can just use anyone who looks similar to Arya.
Ah ... I see you've never heard, "If there's a gun on the wall in the first act, you better use it by the third act."
You don't set up a mystery like that and then never resolve it. Ever. Bad, amateurish writing.
Who says it won't be resolved? It hasn't been resolved in the books.
Lift -- there was a FB discussion on that yesterday and someone pointed out she could be putting out a red herring, that they could still bring Stoneheart on because technically, Catelyn is dead and Stoneheart is someone else. I don't know. I didn't like the "extraneous characters" comment. It seemed disrespectful to ASOIAF. I don't think GRRM writes extraneous characters.0 -
I agree that not using Lady Stoneheart as the final scene was a fail! The PERFECT mic drop! Can you imagine what the non-reader fandom would be thinking? they'd be talking about it the entire off-season! it's just not very smart writing OR marketing to leave her out.
My passion to the show has cooled quite a bit...it's pretty apparent that the showrunners are more concerned about stuff happening than character development. I'm along for the ride, but I'm not thrilled (I imagine GRRM is the same...I'm sure he's in a tight spot in not saying much because he wants the income/publicity from the show). I recall reading GRRM's statement when the show gave us that horrific Jaime-rapes-Cersei scene, where he clearly states that's not what he wrote in his books, but falls short of blaming or even defending the director or show writers.
Well, maybe next season she'll show up. Fairley might be throwing us off the scent with her use of the word "character..." I hope so! Late Lady Stoneheart is better than none at all!0 -
If there's no Lady Stoneheart I'll be disappointed, but I thought the biggest omission from the finale was Tysha!
Tyrion's mental state next season should be severely rocked by what Jamie was supposed to tell him in the cell and what he realizes about his life for the last 10? years or so. I really didn't feel like he was given enough reason to do what he did.0 -
Stoneheart could still show. It isn't impossible. I'm not concerned that she wasn't in season 3, but I'll be annoyed if she isn't in at all.
I'm stuck on the show, though it's quickly losing quality. The acting, the scene settings, everything is perfect. And then you get to the story/writing and it falls apart, which is sad. It could be so great, as the first two seasons were (even with the changes made in those seasons).
I'm annoyed that they write in brand new characters while leaving out important book characters and then claim budget restraints. They add worthless scenes that don't move story at all and leave out important scenes that do and, again, yell budget constraints. It rings hollow. They just need to admit they're going rogue and don't care about the books anymore.0 -
I agree! they're just doing what they want at this point. And imagine how good the show would be if they managed to incorporate the themes that GRRM has written....shows like Mad Men, Breaking Bad do a really great job of having a good story, but also a lot of symbolism and dialogue.
the dialogue though makes me want to rip out my hair sometimes. it's so cliche and trite sometimes that I'm ready to scream. and i mean there are some lines there that the character would never say. Brienne calling someone a ****? Jaime raping his sister during his redemption arc? Sansa going backwards and forwards in her character development? Never mind the character assassinations of Stannis and Littlefinger.
Sigh....I sound crazy, but the actors are so SO good! Can you imagine if they had good lines to say??0 -
Banana, 100% I agree!
Someone on one of the FB pages was critical of Emilia Clarke's acting this past season, but she had such lousy material. I think she did the best she could with it because she's been excellent in past seasons. The show is really doing a serious disservice to that character.0 -
Someone on one of the FB pages was critical of Emilia Clarke's acting this past season, but she had such lousy material. I think she did the best she could with it because she's been excellent in past seasons. The show is really doing a serious disservice to that character.
I'm not quite as skeptical about the direction of the show as you guys are, but this I agree with.0 -
I don't know... Littlefinger is creeping me out even in the beginning while I'm reading the books and rewatching the series.0
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My whole thing with the way the series wrote Littlefinger is that everyone knows that he's a tricky b*stard. In the books though, he's just this amiable guy who makes funny quips and plots so well that no one knows what he's up to.
And book Littlefinger would never be stupid enough to threaten Cersei with knowing her "secret" as to who the father of her children are. Or even antagonize Varys so much. Idk it rings false....Litllefinger is so successful in his plotting because no one thinks about him much.0
