Squat form

Care76

Hi all! I know there are a ton of threads about squat form, but I really need help. If any of you remember me from about 6 months ago, I was really having issues with squat form. Basically I can't keep my heels on the ground unless my feet are pretty far apart and my toes are pointed out. I've been doing a lot of stretching and BW squats working on form.

I just joined the gym and there trainer said my legs going out the way they do is just wrong, but no matter what we tried I couldn't do it without turning out or staying more straight but my heels lifting far. He said I was better to lift my heels and it was OK to do barbell squats that way.

Can anybody tell me if that is true? Because from MFP forums I have read it was OK to point out a bit. I am so confused. This guy was right in one thing. When I do squats with my k and legs going out I'm not feeling it in my behind, I feel it on the tops of my thighs. So I'm wondering if I should try it his way...

krokador

Heels raising on squats is not good. For one once you get to heavier weights it'll throw you way off balance. Secondly the more forward your weight is, the more you'll feel it in the quads, and the more your knees will take a beating.

Now when you say really wide and toes pointed out, how far are we talking? It's possible that you may have really long legs compared to your torso or something that makes it so that your form doesn't look like what the "guys at the gym" would consider good form, and given what he's told you I wouldn't really trust him on that. But if you're so far out because of a mobility issue, it could be damaging to your knees and back long term so you don't wanna keep that up, either! If you could manage to get a video of your squatting it would help in trying to give you pointers.

Off the top of my head it sounds like you have tight hips, hamstrings and ankles, so that's something you might want ot really work on. One of my favorite squat stretch mobility exercise is the golbet squat sit with a heavyish DB or KB up in front. (there's a pic and description in this blog post http://www.travisstoetzel.com/2squattricks/). If you find you can't do that, start working one side at a time with a big lunge and "pushing" your knee out from the inside while keeping your foot flat on the ground.

Always keep the weight on the heels and the outside of the foot when squatting. Until you get the flexibility issue sorted out, you could squat with your feet on 2 5lbs or 2.5lbs plates to try and compensate a bit (but make sure you stay as upright as possible).

I hope that helps!

Care76

Thanks krokador!

I do not have long legs. Probably the opposite. But I walk with my feet out and on my toes when at home. My knees naturally turn out when I bend.

I have been stretching my hip flexors, ankles (lots and lots of work on my ankles and calf), and legs. For 6 months now. I'm starting to wonder if it's the way I'm built. The trainer seemed to think I was incapable of learning to move my legs the correct way. My mom told me when I was little the doctors talked about putting braces on my legs, but they never did.

I have a old video posted in the form check thread. But I don't have anybody right now to video me. We are not aloud cameras at the gym.

No matter how much I practice, I just can't feel it in my glutes.

krokador

Can you do box squats? Find something about knee height, put it a bit behind you and try to touch your butt to it without actually sitting on it (it'll help keep the contraction/butt tight).

I have a foot that naturally turns way out and have to consistently check it because my knee complains a lot if I don't! Turns out while a wider stance and toes pointed out was more comfortable and I was stronger at it, but bringing my feet a bit closer in and reducing the angle my toes are pointed at has forced me to really learn to keep everything tight while going down and the posterior chain takes up the work once I hit below parallel and push myself up. Funnily enough, I feel it more when I front squat.

So maybe goblet squats could help you a bit since the counter balance gives you a bit more leeway on pushing your butt back (thus you'll feel it more in the glutes/hammies/PC) and at the same time teach you to keep the whole thing super tight in order to not let your quads do all the work. Another cue that may help you not lean forward is to picture yourself pushing the ground away rather than the bar or your body) up.

aplhabetacheesecake

sounds like you have same issues at me!!!
I have a shortened achilles tendon and very short and tight calf muscles!
As a child I always walked on my tip toes!

my legs hyper extend at the knee, so they bend forward and back to a degree

my ankles roll in and i am slightly knock kneed

my shin muscles make up for my issues and I often get wicked shin splints when running

I wear corrective custom orthotics with a heel lift- newbalance shoes with at least an 8-12mm heel drop and this stops my heels from lifting cause essentially I am bring the ground up to my heels.

I do stretching 3-5 times a day in the form of a calf stretch standing straight leg and bent leg, heel drops and raises and IT band hip stretching

I also attend physiotherapy 2x a week

I always wear my shoes and orthotics while lifting hope that helps!

hnsaunde

I found the old video for everyone's reference:

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Care76/media/videos/video-2013-11-27-20-05-52_zps5f905bfb.mp4.html

Care, do you still squat the same way as in that video or has there been any differences you've seen while working on form in the last 6 months?

muroo

I'm also interested in knowing how far out your toes were pointing...I also thought a little out was okay! And I think I even posted that since I thought it was, at least versus your knees going in. My legs are a little knock-kneed so sometimes my form looks more wrong than it should, or I have to do some things a little "wrong" so that my joints do the right thing.

Care76

Krokador, I'll look into trying different squats. I have tried to squat over a chair a few times, yesterday the trainer was still baffled at my form with even doing that. I wish it wasn't so hard for me.

Thanks for the tips aplhabetachee! I definitely can't afford physio or orthodics right now, but I'll keep it in mind for future reference. I do stretches multiple times a day already.

Rugbyplayer85, I'm not sure, probably. I was mainly just doing BW squats so yesterday was the first time with the bar in about 6 months. I will be honest, I can't really tell if I'm doing them the same. I look in the mirror, but I'm not sure.

The trainer said I might be best to change it up and do lunges with the bar instead of squats. But would I still get the same workout? I didn't think that would be as effective. But if I can't get my form right maybe I need a change?

Care76

Muroo, I point them quite a bit, but that causes my knees to push out to watch, which he said causes me to use my legs instead of my glutes.

krokador

I'm also interested in knowing how far out your toes were pointing...I also thought a little out was okay! And I think I even posted that since I thought it was, at least versus your knees going in. My legs are a little knock-kneed so sometimes my form looks more wrong than it should, or I have to do some things a little "wrong" so that my joints do the right thing.

Toes out a bit is perfectly fine, but once you get past 30 degrees out or so you're essentially changing the movement and not really preventing the knees from caving in - it just doesn't look like they are because of the foot placement. It might work for some people, but ideally it's not what you wanna shoot for!

krokador

The trainer said I might be best to change it up and do lunges with the bar instead of squats. But would I still get the same workout? I didn't think that would be as effective. But if I can't get my form right maybe I need a change?

Lunges will actually work the glutes/hamstrings a bit more than the squat. But IMO they're actually harder to keep good form with because of the whole balance thing. Stride length is also different for everyone. And if your knee caves in on squats, it will most likely do the same thing on a lunge. So just be mindful of that if you decide to try them out, and definitely go for bodyweight first.

I'm sure you'll figure it out, though. Nothing's impossible!

hnsaunde

Hmm, based on that video and your descriptions, I would try sumo squats. You need a super wide stance with them, so it basically forces your knees far apart. Also (you may already be doing this) but do a body weight squat, stick your elbows between your knees, and push your knees apart when you're in the bottom of it. Hopefully your feet will start to get used to it and not point out as much.

Front squats your feet are actually supposed to point out more (I think) so maybe give those a shot as well?

muroo

Toes out a bit is perfectly fine, but once you get past 30 degrees out or so you're essentially changing the movement and not really preventing the knees from caving in - it just doesn't look like they are because of the foot placement. It might work for some people, but ideally it's not what you wanna shoot for!

Got it, thanks! I'll pay more attention next time. I tried a bit today just from reading earlier in this thread and I guess I see what you mean. I'll try to do it more like a narrow horse stance.

Care76

I talked to them about giving me a different trainer. One that is very familiar with barbell squats and women lifting heavy. The one I saw wanted me to use machines, which I did. But I want to get these squats right so I can continue.