How do you define a "hilly" course
PeteWhoLikesToRunAlot
Posts: 596 Member
Just curious what your definition of "hilly" is. Doing the math, many of my runs around work can typically average 1.5 to 2% grade over a 6-7M course. I'd say that some of these definitely feel hilly.
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The marathon I am running in the fall has about 1200 feet of climb, with a 150 feet of climb mile at 22ish. To me, this is a hilly course. You roll for some of it, but are just simply climbing in other parts. Sure, you give most of the elevation back as you finish where you started, but, since you expend more energy going up than you save going down, I definitely consider courses like this hilly and tough!!!0
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By way of definition. I think any course I look at and think "this one is gonna need a hill module in training" is a hilly course
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Good question, in for answers0
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This is the description of my marathon:
"The MCM is a challenging Boston Qualifier that takes runners on a scenic trip through the historic mill district of the Granite State's largest city. Runners in the full and half marathon will enjoy an exhilarating climb to one of the city's highest points for fabulous views of the Queen City, surrounding areas, and beautiful fall foliage."
Pretty sure they wouldn't use words like challenging and exhilarating climb if it wasn't pretty hilly. Unfortunately I've been unable to find the elevation profile for the race so i don't know exactly what I'm dealing with.
I've noticed in New England for race descriptions they tend to use the word flat for small to medium hills and the words hilly and challenging mean "do some hill training".0 -
It's all relative. When I ran the National Half Marathon (Now Rock n Roll USA) a few years back, folks from Florida were complaining about "all the hills." I didn't see any significant hills. The cumulative elevation gain for that race was about 300 feet, or pretty much the same as I do in my usual daily 6-mile route, only over twice the distance.
I'd say a marathon is "hilly" when it has about the same amount of climbing or more per mile as I do in my daily runs, anything over about 1000 feet of cumulative elevation for 26.2. At marathon pace, those hills just seem tougher.
I'd call it "mountainous" if it has 3000 feet or more gain.
Of course, your mileage may vary!0 -
I did 12Km with a 300 metre cumulative elevation a couple of weeks ago that I'd probably describe as hilly, although that's a long climb, descent then back again.
Similarly I did a 24Km about a month ago with a 500 metre cumulative elevation, with a lot of repeats. Very different type of run than the 12Km but similarly one I'd describe as hilly.0 -
This is the 12k I did in May. Overall I call this a hilly course. The sections 2.5-4.0 and 5-7 miles are what i would call "rolling."
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For me its relative. I live in a hilly area so its rare that I don't run hills during a run (eg today's 7.6mile trail run had over 900ft of climbs). Hilly for me was the 7 mile race I did recently where the first 3 miles were all up hill (approx 1200ft climb), now that was hilly! But my local 10k has 1 short but steep hill and one slightly longer steady climb both of which you run twice, I didn't think twice about it but we had people come up from Cardiff who took one look at the hill and started walking as they trained pretty much on the flat.
I like hills as long as its not hot - I can do hills but heat kills me!0 -
I think it must be relative to what your training is, I don't think there is a standard used for races.
Living and training in Florida, I consider an overpass hilly, but someone living in the Sierra Nevada or Rocky Mountains would scoff at me.0 -
This is an interesting question. The marathon I am training for is described as "undulating"; not just by the organisers but also by past participants. That doesn't sound unduly challenging does it?
Having reviewed several runners Garmin traces, I see 550m of climb. I think that's pretty bloody hilly!
I suspect (as has been said above) that it's relative to where you live and therefore what is "normal" to you. I live in a fairly flat area and have to seek out hills, often doubling back to get enough elevation.0 -
It all depends on your perspective....
http://itsallaboutthevertical.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/kilians-world-view-hardrock-100/
If anyone out there can actually post the photo, that would be awesome. I'm technically challenged. As some background, Killian smashed the hardrock 100 course record yesterday (almost 33k of climb) all while taking pictures along the course and generally looking like he was out for an easy training run.0 -
As Supreme Court Justice Potter once said of p0rnography....I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core p0rnography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that. [Emphasis added.]
I would be hard pressed to adequately "define" hilly, but I sure do know it when I'm running it!! 3 races come to mind immediately in my neck of the woods, The Shamrock 15k (in the Cuyahoga VALLEY National Park (down & then back up out of the valley), Jim Klett 10K (also in Valley, reasonably flat until the last mile with a *miserable* hill!!), and the Great New Year's Eve race in Stow, OH. All three events are run by the same group and I swear they are trying to KILL people!0 -
This is the 12k I did in May. Overall I call this a hilly course. The sections 2.5-4.0 and 5-7 miles are what i would call "rolling."
I love the word "rolling". I ran a leg of a relay that described the leg as having "rolling hills". I imagined gentle inclines and declines. It was what I would call "hilly" and probably similar to your definition of rolling.0 -
I live in an area with a lot of hills. Neighborhood runs, even the short ones, mean you're getting at least 400 feet of elevation. I only recently started focusing on hills in my training. I have since learned that the local runners' definition of "flat" or "hilly" and MY definition are very different, because they are all very used to hills and my hardest hill run doesn't even make them slow down or get winded (I ran with the local group once, and everyone had to wait for me to huff and puff my way up a hill as my pace slowed down by minutes. One of the runners offered me jelly beans afterward, I must have looked destroyed!)
I remember one of them describing one of the races I ran recently as being a fun, flat-and-fast race. I would not describe it the same way. I would describe it as having rolling hills.
Hilly is definitely subjective.0 -
Here's y next race description
Start and finish at base camp. This is a single loop course in mountainous terrain, with 11.7 miles of fire roads and 4.0 miles of single-track trails. (This loop includes the 4-mile Bulldog Mountain climb to 2,528 ft. elevation.)
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Like everyone else is saying, honestly it's all relative.
Where I live, my normal weekly runs average about 10km & 170+m of elevation. When I started it was hilly hell. Now I can acknowledge others find it hilly, it's heading more into the 'normal' range for me.
Where I do my parkrun, it has a total of about 40m elevation for the 5km. I've head it described as hilly, I've heard people complain about the hills. I even acknowledge it has rises, but it is not hilly to me. Undulating maybe at a stretch.0 -
As Supreme Court Justice Potter once said of p0rnography....I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core p0rnography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that. [Emphasis added.]
I would be hard pressed to adequately "define" hilly, but I sure do know it when I'm running it!! 3 races come to mind immediately in my neck of the woods, The Shamrock 15k (in the Cuyahoga VALLEY National Park (down & then back up out of the valley), Jim Klett 10K (also in Valley, reasonably flat until the last mile with a *miserable* hill!!), and the Great New Year's Eve race in Stow, OH. All three events are run by the same group and I swear they are trying to KILL people!
And I chose that area for my first 100 (burning river in 3 weeks) particularly because it is not reputed to be challenging in terms of elevation gain/loss: it is a relatively "easy" first 100 and Western States qualifier...the 32miles of the first day of the Western States training runs had more elevation change than all of Burning River. And Western States is not even a qualifier for Hardrock which just concluded today- it does not expose the runner to the challenges faced at HR. Everything is definitely relative!0 -
Here's another classic -- a bunch of ultramarathons compared to the Boston Marathon -- often considered a very hilly marathon:
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Heartbreak hill doesn't seem like such a heartbreaker....0
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Definitely agree that it's relative. I live in a hilly neighborhood with some pretty steep grades, so I'm used to them I guess. People love to talk about how bad "Cardiac Hill" is in the Peachtree Road Race here in Atlanta. I ran it last week and didn't find it all that challenging. But when I first started running in another city, my usual trails were practically flat and I had a much harder time on any hills during races.0
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This was the first half of my first half marathon. It was an out and back so we got to do most of that twice. I considered it pretty ****ing hilly. Not compared to stuff in more mountainous areas but it was really tough. It didn't help much that it was in the 70s and humid (nice December weather). It was fun though.
Like others have said, everything's relative. There are "hills" in almost all of my runs in my neighborhood. Most of them aren't very high but they're steep for short distances.
This is a 5K loop from my house. This is the direction I usually run it but sometimes I'll go the other way. Some days it feels hillier than others. Usually depending on whether it's an easy run or if it's closer to 5K pace. At race pace it's pretty hilly.
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Here's a link to the first half I ever ran:
http://www.mapmyrun.com/us/monticello-ky/runthebluegrass-half-marathon-course-route-34638284
I had a Marine friend look at it and read the elevation map for me - I didn't know what those numbers would translate to and needed an experienced runner to help. He told me "gentle rolling hills and the second half would be mostly flat". I thought COOL and signed up.
OH. EM. GEE.
Gently rolling my butt. Flat? Are you kidding me? It was AWFUL. I knew I was in trouble when I was standing in line at the porta potties and the girl behind me goes "yeah, I run 30 halfs a year and this one is the hardest".
I made it though, and learned a couple things. 1. Every other run in my life can be considered flat. 2. Never again will I trust someone who runs stairs for fun to read an elevation chart.0 -
Here's a link to the first half I ever ran:
http://www.mapmyrun.com/us/monticello-ky/runthebluegrass-half-marathon-course-route-34638284
I had a Marine friend look at it and read the elevation map for me - I didn't know what those numbers would translate to and needed an experienced runner to help. He told me "gentle rolling hills and the second half would be mostly flat". I thought COOL and signed up.
OH. EM. GEE.
Gently rolling my butt. Flat? Are you kidding me? It was AWFUL. I knew I was in trouble when I was standing in line at the porta potties and the girl behind me goes "yeah, I run 30 halfs a year and this one is the hardest".
I made it though, and learned a couple things. 1. Every other run in my life can be considered flat. 2. Never again will I trust someone who runs stairs for fun to read an elevation chart.
Bwahahaha.... sorry I know I shouldn't laugh, but once I looked at the course elevation map, I realised I probably would have given you a similar response as your marine friend. I think my 10k local street loop is as hilly if not worse than the entirety of your half.0 -
Here's a link to the first half I ever ran:
http://www.mapmyrun.com/us/monticello-ky/runthebluegrass-half-marathon-course-route-34638284
I had a Marine friend look at it and read the elevation map for me - I didn't know what those numbers would translate to and needed an experienced runner to help. He told me "gentle rolling hills and the second half would be mostly flat". I thought COOL and signed up.
OH. EM. GEE.
Gently rolling my butt. Flat? Are you kidding me? It was AWFUL. I knew I was in trouble when I was standing in line at the porta potties and the girl behind me goes "yeah, I run 30 halfs a year and this one is the hardest".
I made it though, and learned a couple things. 1. Every other run in my life can be considered flat. 2. Never again will I trust someone who runs stairs for fun to read an elevation chart.
Bwahahaha.... sorry I know I shouldn't laugh, but once I looked at the course elevation map, I realised I probably would have given you a similar response as your marine friend. I think my 10k local street loop is as hilly if not worse than the entirety of your half.
LOL I'm really interested to see how my perspective changes when I run this race again in 2015. The elevation chart didn't really do it justice though. The actual vs the expected was totally different. As a first time racer, it was definitely a doozy, and it didn't help that it poured rain and was 35* F the whole time. Cold, wet, hilly, and miserable. But, like I said, I'll be back to run it again next year - it will be a real test of how much I've grown as a runner!0 -
It all depends on your perspective....
http://itsallaboutthevertical.wordpress.com/2014/07/12/kilians-world-view-hardrock-100/
If anyone out there can actually post the photo, that would be awesome. I'm technically challenged. As some background, Killian smashed the hardrock 100 course record yesterday (almost 33k of climb) all while taking pictures along the course and generally looking like he was out for an easy training run.
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Copper Mountain. ???? LOL0
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Lmao I'm a wuss. If I run 7 miles and it's a 100+ foot climb its hilly. 200 super hilly... 300+ hills of death.. 0-50 flat lol0
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Thanks for posting, likitisplit! Silverton ---> Telluride = Flat....bwahahahahaha!0
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Nevermind :blushing:0
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If I put it on Map My Run and the hill elevation line starts to look more and more straight up... that's hilly. For me, it's not so much the elevation as the distance of that elevation, if that makes sense. A few hundred feet over a mile is fine. A few hundred feet over .1-.3 of a mile? Ouch. (Starting to fear the 1/3 mile 7-9% incline of the Bix 7 that's coming up in a couple weeks. Ooooooh boy. Doing steep, rolling hill repeats to prepare.)0
