The power of this forum
juliebccs
Posts: 233
My GP and surgeons all use the average wls data for the first year then the second year etc.
So they all told me I could expect to lose 30-50% of my excess weight in the first twelve months and 60-90% in the twelve months following (so by 2 years out)
I am confused by this. Most folk on here have left that far behind. I have lost 83lb's. My excess weight was approx 150lb's. So I have already reached 55% loss of my excess weight so far at less than 5 months out. I expect of course to slow down even more but I cannot imagine not losing at least another 20-30lb in the next 6 months. Actually I have no doubt of this tbh. Which would make my loss in the first 12 months approx 75%. I honestly believe I can reach 100% loss in time. So why do they say 90% at most?
We on this forum seem to beat those odds from what I have read so far. Of course I suspect we are the motivated ones, logging in daily , keeping diaries.
So I want to say that this forum is a big part of the success I feel so far. My GP when he did my weigh in about 2 months ago told me I would only lose about another 22lb's in the next 10 months. Try an extra 40lb and definitely still counting.
I understand Dr's trying not to get our hopes up too high. But there is also such a thing as us reducing our goals to suit their expectations. Just accepting that the statistics say we will still be overweight. On here we don't actually compete but we do support and watch others achievements and joy. Greatest motivators!!
So they all told me I could expect to lose 30-50% of my excess weight in the first twelve months and 60-90% in the twelve months following (so by 2 years out)
I am confused by this. Most folk on here have left that far behind. I have lost 83lb's. My excess weight was approx 150lb's. So I have already reached 55% loss of my excess weight so far at less than 5 months out. I expect of course to slow down even more but I cannot imagine not losing at least another 20-30lb in the next 6 months. Actually I have no doubt of this tbh. Which would make my loss in the first 12 months approx 75%. I honestly believe I can reach 100% loss in time. So why do they say 90% at most?
We on this forum seem to beat those odds from what I have read so far. Of course I suspect we are the motivated ones, logging in daily , keeping diaries.
So I want to say that this forum is a big part of the success I feel so far. My GP when he did my weigh in about 2 months ago told me I would only lose about another 22lb's in the next 10 months. Try an extra 40lb and definitely still counting.
I understand Dr's trying not to get our hopes up too high. But there is also such a thing as us reducing our goals to suit their expectations. Just accepting that the statistics say we will still be overweight. On here we don't actually compete but we do support and watch others achievements and joy. Greatest motivators!!
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Honestly, WLS is to force someone from obesity to overwt with a surgical procedure and a recommended dietary plan. Achieving normal wt has nothing to do with surgery but a pt's healthy coping with food addiction and life and moving into a state of remission and maintenance. At 180 lbs I could have completely started eating 1450 calories a day and stopped there. I realized that the surgical effect was pretty much done and I would have to choose to stick to 1000-1100 carefully measured a day In order to continue to lose. I have chosen me and my health. I have chosen the disciplined struggle to live a healthy wt for my life. I don't think they are trying to quash dreams but be open and honest about a surgical technique. Sadly, so many people really think WLS is EASY and Automatic involving no work0
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Warning: some geekery ahead.
I have had similar questions and went looking for actual numbers. I was interested to see if the poor outcomes (weight regain or minimal weight loss) was driving the average way down, and lots of the 'successes' were losing 100% of their excess weight. The best article I have found with actual numbers and distributions suggest that there are very few who really lose 100% of their excess weight (not sure if that is defined as a BMI in the middle of the healthy range, the top of the healthy range or what).
Figure 1 in the linked article shows the distribution of 84 patients who had VSG. The dot in the middle is the average (50% percent) weight loss, the top of the box shows the point where 68% did worse/32% did better and the T at the top is where 95% did worse/5% did better. So it looks like very few people actually lose all of their excess weight.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3217142/
The other charts a figures are interesting as well, talking about (Table 3) qualitative improvement in self-esteem, social interaction, activity, ability to to work and interest in sex.
Another figure that was interesting to me is Table 5, which shows the breakdown of success (as defined by the BAROS scale) by gender. No men were in the Excellent category, while 17.5 percent of women were in the Excellent category, and 50% of women were Excellent or very good, while only 19% of men were Very Good. I resolve to be a pioneer for my gender like some of our other male successes here!
The BAROS scale is used to grade outcome which is a points based scale that covers excess weight lost (-1 to 3 points), Medical condition resolution (-1 to 3 points) and the quality of life results (-3 to +3 points) and a score of +7-+9 is deemed Excellent.
http://www.obesityteam.com/baros/BAROS_Oria.pdf
I found it interesting to delve into the definitions and numbers of success, but I believe that Mango has it right, after the surgery, it is up to the person to decide to change themselves to get to a healthy point.
Rob0 -
I’d never heard it put that way- that the goal of WLS is get a person from morbidly obese, to just overweight, but it makes sense. I’ve also noticed the gender gap, and heard the stat that the success rate 5yrs out- is less than 2%. Meaning most people, when they are able to eat normally- go right back to their old habits. I think you are right that we are the exception- we are engaged every day and very focused on being successful. I had surg a little over four months ago and am down over 80lbs, I know someone of similar starting weight/height who had it the week after is only down 40lbs. I know it’s not a competition- and everyone loses at a different rate- but I also know she’s not working it as diligently as she could- and I’m sad to see her frustrated without making the connection between her behavior and her progress. I know I’m going to stall out again at some point, put I also know that if I stay diligent and keep good habits- I’ll meet my goals.
I love the forum- the geek talk (what great stats work!)- and everyone who puts the effort into this community every day.0 -
Well said Julie! And thanks for the stats Rob. I think Julie is right and the folks dedicated to succeeding and losing more than the average 70% of their excess weight are the people we see here. Mangopickle is also right, there comes a point when it isn't the surgery that's causing the weight loss anymore.
So here's to us! The folks who don't want to settle for getting some of the exces weight off but are determined to get it all off. My doctor said he expected me to get to 200 and then bounce back up to 220 and stay there. I told him that wasn't acceptable to me. My personal goal was to get and stay somewhere below 200. The closer I get to 200 however the more I think I can make it all the way to goal which is 160. Yes 160 is still in the overweight category for me, but I really think I can do it. Might take me another 3 years, but that's OK.0 -
Yes 160 is still in the overweight category for me, but I really think I can do it. Might take me another 3 years, but that's OK.
I think our individual targets factor into the percentages as well. Digging through the BAROS paper, it looks like the percentages are calculated versus an 'ideal' weight of BMI=22 (the center-ish of the normal range). My target of 180 pounds down will put me in the overweight category, but I imagine I will be ecstatic when I get there. That will be 76% of my excess weight, but I cannot imagine what I would look like at 185 lbs (BMI=22 for my height)!
Now that I know (think I figured out) the base number that the Excess Weight is calculated from, the percentages make a lot more sense. I doubt that very many of the 'successful' folks really set their ideal weight as their target.
Rob0 -
I think a lot of people in this group are great examples of people who are committed to being in this for the long haul. I know that it will always be work, and I will always have to be conscientious of my habits. Like others have said, surgery is the tool, but we have to use it to the best of our abilities to get optimum results. I have addressed my eating issues through therapy, I am continuing therapy to help me stay on track, I do what my surgeon and his team tell me to do, I go to support groups regularly, I will keep using MFP to keep me accountable, and I will stay connected to this group because I can learn from those who have been there, and maybe I can help someone who is trying to get there. I will do whatever I need to do to keep this tool sharp!!0
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I think a lot of people in this group are great examples of people who are committed to being in this for the long haul. I know that it will always be work, and I will always have to be conscientious of my habits. Like others have said, surgery is the tool, but we have to use it to the best of our abilities to get optimum results. I have addressed my eating issues through therapy, I am continuing therapy to help me stay on track, I do what my surgeon and his team tell me to do, I go to support groups regularly, I will keep using MFP to keep me accountable, and I will stay connected to this group because I can learn from those who have been there, and maybe I can help someone who is trying to get there. I will do whatever I need to do to keep this tool sharp!!
Garber6th, your before and after pictures are a true inspiration and a true look at what persistance and determination can do. You have much to be proud of my friend!0 -
That final number is tricky, and I'm still not sure what my goal is....I'm 5'7" and started at 325. The surg said get under 200lbs and stay there, the NUT said 140lbs. I feel like I would have to be dead for six months to weigh 140lbs, but I guess it's possible. Right now - after loosing about 85lbs and 25% of my excess weight- I'm thinking that weighing between 160-180lbs- five years out from my surg would be a sucess. I'll keep evaluationg it as I make progress. It used to bother me tha the end number seems so fluid- but now that I'm getting better with the concept of this beig a life style change- I'm Ok with the idea that it may fluctate, but I will still be in control.0
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That final number is tricky, and I'm still not sure what my goal is....I'm 5'7" and started at 325. The surg said get under 200lbs and stay there, the NUT said 140lbs. I feel like I would have to be dead for six months to weigh 140lbs, but I guess it's possible. Right now - after loosing about 85lbs and 25% of my excess weight- I'm thinking that weighing between 160-180lbs- five years out from my surg would be a sucess. I'll keep evaluationg it as I make progress. It used to bother me tha the end number seems so fluid- but now that I'm getting better with the concept of this beig a life style change- I'm Ok with the idea that it may fluctate, but I will still be in control.
Home, I'm also 5'7" and weighed 160 in high school (a thousand years ago!). Then I was told I was 20 pounds overweight. So yes, 140-145 is an "ideal" weight for us. My doc says my goal is 160 because of my height and age. I am in my late 50's now and evidentally they expect you to weigh more when you are older. Whatever! I too feel that almost anything under 200 is successful. I can't imagine what I will look like at 160 either, but the closer I get to that 200 mark, the more I think what's another 40? I can do another 40 and hit that 160. If I decide I don't like the look on the way down I can stop. But I really think I'm going to go for it.0 -
That final number is tricky, and I'm still not sure what my goal is....I'm 5'7" and started at 325. The surg said get under 200lbs and stay there, the NUT said 140lbs. I feel like I would have to be dead for six months to weigh 140lbs, but I guess it's possible. Right now - after loosing about 85lbs and 25% of my excess weight- I'm thinking that weighing between 160-180lbs- five years out from my surg would be a sucess. I'll keep evaluationg it as I make progress. It used to bother me tha the end number seems so fluid- but now that I'm getting better with the concept of this beig a life style change- I'm Ok with the idea that it may fluctate, but I will still be in control.
Home, I'm also 5'7" and weighed 160 in high school (a thousand years ago!). Then I was told I was 20 pounds overweight. So yes, 140-145 is an "ideal" weight for us. My doc says my goal is 160 because of my height and age. I am in my late 50's now and evidentally they expect you to weigh more when you are older. Whatever! I too feel that almost anything under 200 is successful. I can't imagine what I will look like at 160 either, but the closer I get to that 200 mark, the more I think what's another 40? I can do another 40 and hit that 160. If I decide I don't like the look on the way down I can stop. But I really think I'm going to go for it.
I am 5'4", I started at 382, I will be 51 this year, and my surgeon's PA told me I should aim for 150 lbs. I am ok with that and I know I can get there, but for me, that doesn't have to be a concrete number. It's about 44 lbs away, and I will see how I look and feel as I lose the next 40ish lbs., but as Pat said, what's another 40? I am just wondering how many lbs of excess skin I have and will have - how does that factor into a goal weight??0 -
I set my ticker at 135 but I'm thinking that I may have 10 lbs of skin which would be 145. My permanent lifestyle goal is to never go over 150 lbs. I am only 4 lbs away. That is over wt but with little health impact.0
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That final number is tricky, and I'm still not sure what my goal is....I'm 5'7" and started at 325. The surg said get under 200lbs and stay there, the NUT said 140lbs. I feel like I would have to be dead for six months to weigh 140lbs, but I guess it's possible. Right now - after loosing about 85lbs and 25% of my excess weight- I'm thinking that weighing between 160-180lbs- five years out from my surg would be a sucess. I'll keep evaluationg it as I make progress. It used to bother me tha the end number seems so fluid- but now that I'm getting better with the concept of this beig a life style change- I'm Ok with the idea that it may fluctate, but I will still be in control.
Home, I'm also 5'7" and weighed 160 in high school (a thousand years ago!). Then I was told I was 20 pounds overweight. So yes, 140-145 is an "ideal" weight for us. My doc says my goal is 160 because of my height and age. I am in my late 50's now and evidentally they expect you to weigh more when you are older. Whatever! I too feel that almost anything under 200 is successful. I can't imagine what I will look like at 160 either, but the closer I get to that 200 mark, the more I think what's another 40? I can do another 40 and hit that 160. If I decide I don't like the look on the way down I can stop. But I really think I'm going to go for it.
I am 5'4", I started at 382, I will be 51 this year, and my surgeon's PA told me I should aim for 150 lbs. I am ok with that and I know I can get there, but for me, that doesn't have to be a concrete number. It's about 44 lbs away, and I will see how I look and feel as I lose the next 40ish lbs., but as Pat said, what's another 40? I am just wondering how many lbs of excess skin I have and will have - how does that factor into a goal weight??
Good point about the excess skin. My PCP, who is not a bariatric doc said he estimated what I have right now in excess skin to be about 20 pounds. My bariatric doc said he estimated that losing the full 226 I needed to lose to get to goal would leave me with about 30 pounds in excess skin, so I needed to stop losing when I hit 190. Following that thought, if I hit 160 and had it all removed, I would weight 140 or so. I can live with that! :laugh:0 -
I forgot about the skin. That makes sense though- and I'll probably feel the same way- after so much loss- I probably will feel like going for that last 20-30lbs.0
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I was told the same thing by my surgeon. I think it's a combination of the types of folks who seek daily support in a forum of this type, (determined folks), and a bit of Dr's padding their numbers so they can claim "successful" WLS patients. I was originally told I should lose 100 pounds, from 235 to 135. I''m 5'6". At my 6 month appointment still rocking about 160 pounds and officially "overweight", I was told I was a "success" and if I didn't lose another pound, not ot worry about it. My health was improved, I was off all meds and co-morbidities were gone. Though I felt great about the progress, I didn't feel like I was near done yet. I continued to lose with my team's blessing and finally adjusted my goal UP by 10 pounds when I hit a size 4 in pants\jeans. So today, I've lost 90 pounds and am in my goal range. I've adjusted my calories to my BMR and try to eat back my exercise calories now, but I'm usually not successful, (usually a bit under), so we'll see, that last 10 may come off yet to get me to an even 100 pound loss. Either way, I'm good with it! Never in a million years did I think I'd look and feel this good!0
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I am 6 months out. I have lost about 70-75 pounds since the surgery. I am very happy with the results so far. I am at 220 right now-- I would REALLY like to get to 199... and if I could see 190, that would be AWESOME (I have not weighted that little since I was in college!!). That being said... I have spent the 20 years prior to WLS obsessing about food and my body and my weight. I had surgery, in part, to liberate me from that obsession to a degree. I was not expecting a magic cure or anything--- just wanted "leverage". That being said, I am aware of my goals numbers-wise, but I am not married to them. My actual goals are to learn to make healthy eating my "normal" way of life and to make regular exercise (as in 4-5 times per week) a habit. Everything else is gravy as far as I am concerned. I am less focused on losing and more focused on how to make this STICK.
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i am 2.5 months out and down 44 pounds. So far, I don't feel like this is real effective. I also don't believe people can just go right back to their pre-surgery weights after losing a lot without concerted effort on their part. the stomach is small. To gain weight, I'd have to eat donuts and shove them down to the point of pain and puking.
So, i'm not gaining weight, that's a plus. But I'm not impressed with my weight loss so far and I think threads like this, that intimate somebody must be losing slowly because they aren't being diligent are kind of presumptuous. I used to et angry when people assumed I got fat because I sat around and ate twinkies all day long. I don't know why I'm losing slowly, I just am and am resigned that the restriction is what it is and there won't be any dramatic weight loss for me.
Some of us are just like that.0 -
Authorwriter, not to discredit your feelings at all, but it seems like 44 lbs in two and a half months is pretty good progress! That's an average of about 4 lbs a week. I know I was never able to lose that much before surgery. I know it's hard when you have certain expectations, and no one wants to be the one that doesn't lose at the rate other people do, but I think you are doing great!0
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I lost 47 lbs in that time frame so I think your progress is fabulous. You appear right on target in my opinion. As for gaining wt back I could completely go back to grazing on a 2 lb bag of chips all day (5000calories) and get right back to 250 in 8 months or less. Sad, but true, I know me very well.i am 2.5 months out and down 44 pounds. So far, I don't feel like this is real effective. I also don't believe people can just go right back to their pre-surgery weights after losing a lot without concerted effort on their part. the stomach is small. To gain weight, I'd have to eat donuts and shove them down to the point of pain and puking.
So, i'm not gaining weight, that's a plus. But I'm not impressed with my weight loss so far and I think threads like this, that intimate somebody must be losing slowly because they aren't being diligent are kind of presumptuous. I used to et angry when people assumed I got fat because I sat around and ate twinkies all day long. I don't know why I'm losing slowly, I just am and am resigned that the restriction is what it is and there won't be any dramatic weight loss for me.
Some of us are just like that.0 -
i am 2.5 months out and down 44 pounds. So far, I don't feel like this is real effective. I also don't believe people can just go right back to their pre-surgery weights after losing a lot without concerted effort on their part. the stomach is small. To gain weight, I'd have to eat donuts and shove them down to the point of pain and puking.
So, i'm not gaining weight, that's a plus. But I'm not impressed with my weight loss so far and I think threads like this, that intimate somebody must be losing slowly because they aren't being diligent are kind of presumptuous. I used to et angry when people assumed I got fat because I sat around and ate twinkies all day long. I don't know why I'm losing slowly, I just am and am resigned that the restriction is what it is and there won't be any dramatic weight loss for me.
Some of us are just like that.
You are doing fine! My goal is to lose 8 to 10 pounds a month! I work out 6 days a week, and add activities like bike riding, hiking, and dancing. I lose slow, compared to others! But I am losing! My doctor told me that I am doing exceptional, and he expects me to lose 2 pounds a month! His goal for me at 1year out is 195. I am at 3 months out, and I am down 50 pounds, 195 is 23 pounds away! I plan to be there on my 6 month checkup.0 -
I think that all of us on this forum are diligent in doing our food logs and following our prescribed plans. We also have this great group of support on this forum. We voice our frustrations, share our victories, and we all truly care and understand everyone is on a journey to get healthy and lose weight! I have acquaintances who have had surgery and they are not as successful, because they do not work out and do not follow their prescribed plan.
We will succeed!0 -
I'm really sorry if you felt this post targeted slow losers in a negative way. It's actually contrary to its intended purpose. Tbh I think 44 down at 2.5 month's out is not really what I would term slow losing. My concern was Mir directed at wondering why the wl specialists don't encourage us to aim higher than their stats when clearly on this forum so many members appear to have higher success. As I stated, I can only assume the forum is an additional tool in our new arsenal that many may not have.i am 2.5 months out and down 44 pounds. So far, I don't feel like this is real effective. I also don't believe people can just go right back to their pre-surgery weights after losing a lot without concerted effort on their part. the stomach is small. To gain weight, I'd have to eat donuts and shove them down to the point of pain and puking.
So, i'm not gaining weight, that's a plus. But I'm not impressed with my weight loss so far and I think threads like this, that intimate somebody must be losing slowly because they aren't being diligent are kind of presumptuous. I used to et angry when people assumed I got fat because I sat around and ate twinkies all day long. I don't know why I'm losing slowly, I just am and am resigned that the restriction is what it is and there won't be any dramatic weight loss for me.
Some of us are just like that.0 -
i know my loss looks pretty good on paper, but i'm stalled for a weeks now. I'm trying not to be anxious, but there hasn't been any loss in a long time. I don't think this thread targeted me in particular in a negative way, but I think doctors don't go rah rah and tell us to aim higher because they know the truth of this procedure. People lose weight, some lose a lot. Some not so much and they don't want people getting depressed because they aren't losing much. I'm sure there are plenty of diligent people out there who just aren't doing so well. The worst for me is I'm hungry again already. I thought I'd get more time without hunger.I can't eat much, so the hunger isn't such a big deal, and it's not like it was pre-surgery. So do I regret surgery? No. Do I think it's all that and a bag of chips. No. I think it's a last measure for those of us who can't lose any other way. Just like the doctors say.
I was part of a staged procedure, the idea to do a bypass later if my weight loss wasn't so good, but I don't want the bypass. This experience hasn't been good for me and I don't want more surgery.0 -
I'm sorry the sleeve experience hasn't been a good one for you. I can't honestly say I feel that way. Stalls definitely cause me stress too. I also have moments where a dripping chocolate fudge cake would make me happier than beef strips. But for me, I will cry it from the rooftops. I feel privileged to have had this opportunity where so many who want/need it can't have it. I'll continue to look at it as a gift.i know my loss looks pretty good on paper, but i'm stalled for a weeks now. I'm trying not to be anxious, but there hasn't been any loss in a long time. I don't think this thread targeted me in particular in a negative way, but I think doctors don't go rah rah and tell us to aim higher because they know the truth of this procedure. People lose weight, some lose a lot. Some not so much and they don't want people getting depressed because they aren't losing much. I'm sure there are plenty of diligent people out there who just aren't doing so well. The worst for me is I'm hungry again already. I thought I'd get more time without hunger.I can't eat much, so the hunger isn't such a big deal, and it's not like it was pre-surgery. So do I regret surgery? No. Do I think it's all that and a bag of chips. No. I think it's a last measure for those of us who can't lose any other way. Just like the doctors say.
I was part of a staged procedure, the idea to do a bypass later if my weight loss wasn't so good, but I don't want the bypass. This experience hasn't been good for me and I don't want more surgery.0
