almost time for my 2nd half

CharliesInCharge

I run my second half in 18 days.. My first was in May of this past year and I did a 2:15, which I was proud of. The course had some hills but not a ton.. but a hill at like 11.5 miles was not fun.

This second one is totally flat. so my dream goal is to make a run at a 2hr

Questions;

1. How much did you improve from your first half to your second.. (I realize this may differ greatly due to time between races, course etc) just want to hear some stories
2. if you are going for a certain pace.. in my case 9;09 per mile to do a 2hr.. how far off that pace do you start.. assuming you want to shoot for negative splits?
3. is having a goal time for only my 2nd HM advisable? I have three "goals" in my head.. First , makeable.. to finish the race .. Second , to beat the 2:15 and third the dream of under 2hrs
4. Finally what did YOU learn most from your first half that you took into your second

any thoughts on any of these appreciated

_Waffle_

I still count my first mile as a warmup and don't push the pace on it. I've run this distance so many times now. (Pretty much every weekend) that I know starting out too fast ends up biting you in the end. This isn't a 5k. Give yourself a mile to just relax and have fun then start working on the speed. Even if the first mile is a 10:00 pace you're going to easily make up that minute over the course of the next 12 miles and you'll probably feel much better for it. If you run a 10:00 and then 6 at a 9:00 you're back under a 2 hour pace again. The half distance done correctly seems to build speed with each mile for me. Typically I keep it reigned in for the first 6 and then just run however I feel the second half.

Your goal times sound good to me.

What did I learn from the two races I actually did? You know both of my official halves sucked so much. Both were at around 80 degrees with rain and high humidity and wind. I suck at picking good races evidently. I did start out too fast on my first one. At mile 8 I was averaging an 8:30 pace. Then it quit raining and I got hot, hot, hot! I ended up walking some to cool down. I paced myself much better on the second one and kept things reigned in the first half. This was still brutal due to the heat that day but with the controlled front half I was still able to get a 1:54 time. Moderation on the front end pays off very nicely. It's great to hit mile 6 feeling like your legs are still fresh and raring to go.

The last 3 miles aren't a 5k but don't hold back too much on these. You're nearly there. You should be working pretty hard on these and if you saved some energy you'll be passing people left and right. That feels really good.

_Waffle_

One thing I should add that's helped me so much with pacing. Don't listen to music when you run. Maybe that's just me but the time goes by more quickly and I keep a much more constant pace without music.

litsy3

_Waffle_ - wouldn't you just do a warm-up before the race instead of wasting your first mile on warming up?

litsy3

And my answers to the OP questions would be:

1. about three or four minutes. I don't know exactly though as my timing chip didn't activate at the start line, so the official time I got was slightly slower than I actually ran. My goal had been to beat my time from the previous race, so I was happy either way.

2. I don't shoot for negative splits; the ideal would be totally even pacing but it is hard to achieve. I'd aim for the pace I was actually planning to run for the first mile. But I'd give myself a range - accidentally setting off 5-10 secs faster (easily done) and then easing back = okay, don't panic. Running the first mile 30 secs faster than planned = recipe for disaster.

3. Having a goal time is always advisable because otherwise how would you know how fast was too fast to set off?

4. To start nearer the front.

_Waffle_

_Waffle_ - wouldn't you just do a warm-up before the race instead of wasting your first mile on warming up?

I do for the 5k but I don't do much of that on the half. I do this more for fun than being competitive. I can do 1:50 on a good day probably but I'm not breaking any records so enjoyment is more paramount to me than knocking a minute off my time. I'm not saying go super slower but rather that killing yourself the first mile (Like so many people do in those races) never pays off for me.

rabblerabble

I'm running my second HM in a few weeks too. Ran my first one in July and made a few mistakes.

First was that I went out very fast. First couple of miles were just over a 9 minute pace, then I ran about 7 more miles at about a 10:30 pace. I then slowed to about 11:30 pace for a few miles and the last mile was well over 13 minutes (which was far slower than any of my training runs, even the long slow ones) as I was simply out of energy. I'm going to try to keep the pace slow in the first few miles this time and try to build speed slowly so I have energy at the end.

Second mistake I made was that at about the 10 mile mark was the only steep uphill of the entire race. It was only about a block long and I tried to push hard up the hill. Once I made the turn at the top of the hill onto a flatter stretch I immediately lost energy. I know better this upcoming race to take it easy on the uphills when I encounter them.

lporter229

I think your goal sounds very doable, assuming you have been putting in the training. I have learned that I can run a HM at least 20-30 seconds per min faster than my fastest (long) training run, and I suspect even more than that because I don't feel like I have really ever exerted myself to the fullest. I would suggest splitting the difference between your goal pace and your fastest training run for your first few miles and adjust it from there. There is so much written on the subject of race planning, but I think it really all comes down to starting off smart then going with how you feel.

essjay76

Having a time goal for your 2nd half is a great idea! You know how the distance feels like now, and assuming you've done more training since the first, it's always a good goal to beat your last time.

I would say, race with as even of an effort as possible. If your race has some hills you might not hit that exact pace on those hills - but the following downhill miles might be faster.

Personally - I don't race like that. I'm terrible at even pacing and even effort. I have concluded that I'm just better at racing a negative split. I learned not to go out too fast to bank time - I need to bank energy for the last few miles. It works best for me. I was able to shave off 7 minutes in a few months. All I really did was up my mileage during marathon training. (That also resulted in a huge 19 minute full marathon PR!)

Good luck!!!

Edited to add: Sorry, I just saw that you said this race will be flat. So even better!! Yay!

litsy3

I was just thinking back to my first half and I've remembered that I had absolutely NO idea what I was doing so I didn't know people generally run faster in races than they do in training. I had assumed I'd be slower because it was the furthest distance I'd run.

Anyway, two minutes in, I realised I'd been wrong, wove my way through a load of people running at what HAD been my target pace, and accelerated through the next 13 miles all the way to the finish line, where I nearly puked.

So yeah, I agree with essjay - the second one is a great chance to have a more sensible target!

Zekela

I cut about 30 minutes from my first half time at the second half. But then again, I've only ran about 5 half races in my lifetime. Lesson learnt: have fun and enjoy it. It's pretty cool having water and Gatorade along the way for a long run.

STrooper

I run my second half in 18 days.. My first was in May of this past year and I did a 2:15, which I was proud of. The course had some hills but not a ton.. but a hill at like 11.5 miles was not fun.

This second one is totally flat. so my dream goal is to make a run at a 2hr

Questions;

1. How much did you improve from your first half to your second.. (I realize this may differ greatly due to time between races, course etc) just want to hear some stories
2. if you are going for a certain pace.. in my case 9;09 per mile to do a 2hr.. how far off that pace do you start.. assuming you want to shoot for negative splits?
3. is having a goal time for only my 2nd HM advisable? I have three "goals" in my head.. First , makeable.. to finish the race .. Second , to beat the 2:15 and third the dream of under 2hrs
4. Finally what did YOU learn most from your first half that you took into your second

any thoughts on any of these appreciated

Q1:
Depends upon how much you trained. My first HM was a 2:13 in March 2014 (after running two full marathons and preparing for the third) and was relatively flat. My second HM in May 2014, was 2:06 (after completing the thrid full marathon and a 10-miler). The course was relatively hilly. The third one was in June 2014 on a much hillier course than the previous two and was 2:08. The 4th HM was in early September in really high humidity, and though the course was relatively flat, I finished in 2:03. My last one was two weeks ago on basically the same course as my third and I ran it in 2:01.

I will be running on 10/19 in Myrtle Beach. Can you say flat?

Q2. In the first 2 miles try to hit that pace if the weather is right. You'll know pretty quickly whether you can do it or not. DO NOT go too fast, you'll never make that time up even on a flat course because you'll burn-out at between mile 10-11 (YMMV).

Q3. Nothing wrong with having a goal as you have some sense of how you did and felt after the first one. It depends upon how your training has gone. Most of my HM's are training for the full, so the HM gives my body a sense of what it's going to take to run at a faster pace during the full 26.2 miles. I expect to pass through 2 hours in Myrtle Beach but won't be disappointed if I don't because, again, its just a training taper speed run for the full that I'll run on 11/2. As I run the longer distances in training and races, the HM has become easier for me.

Q4. A consistent pace without going out too fast is much more satisfying than going out so fast that I feel like I'm just hanging on at the end. In my first, I went out just a little faster than I wanted, slowed a bit in the middle but had enough to really kick it up a notch in the last two miles. In the HM that I ran in early September in the high humidity, there was a group coming for me as I approached mile 13 (I had my sights on two people in front of me). When I realized that they were gaining on me I was able to kick it up a notch, catch the two guys in front of me and keep going. Only one person in the group that was trying to chase me down was able to catch and pass me right at mile 13. That lasted only as far as being able to get 15 feet in front of me and then I ran past him at a very nice clip and through the finish chute. That was a nice feeling knowing that I had power left in the tank for the very end.

I don't like the feeling of being totally wasted at the end, but knowing that I ran well, and could still run faster this time and the next.

One other thing. I start a warm up process approximately 30 minutes before the race. No sprinting but a progression from a walk to a slow jog and then a faster jog. Not constantly in motion during the 30 minutes but enough to get the muscles and the heart going.

SteveTries

1. How much did you improve from your first half to your second.. (I realize this may differ greatly due to time between races, course etc) just want to hear some stories

1st - 2hrs 10m
2nd - 1hr 56m [3 months after 1st]
3rd - 1hr 49 [6 months after 2nd]

2. if you are going for a certain pace.. in my case 9;09 per mile to do a 2hr.. how far off that pace do you start.. assuming you want to shoot for negative splits?

There are negative split predictors online you can find.
Personally I like to determine my average pace and then stick to it from start to finish.

3. is having a goal time for only my 2nd HM advisable? I have three "goals" in my head.. First , makeable.. to finish the race .. Second , to beat the 2:15 and third the dream of under 2hrs

I think the first race is a huge learning curve. You don't know what to expect, you don't know how to pace yourself. You aren't really sure what good feels like at the 50% mark, the 75% mark etc.
By your second you have a little bit more of an idea just how much you can push yourself. And of course you've been training and getting fitter in the meantime.
By my 3rd I had a good sense for how hard I could push and I got to the finish line and dry-heaved for a few minutes. Felt great! I'm not fast but I KNEW I had performed at my very best. :-)

Your goals sound good, but you're going to need to pick one and prepare accordingly. If you go out at 2hr pace when that's not realistic, you risk crashing and burning out half way and slowing down so much you'll be slower overall than if you just went out at 2hr 15 pace.

Race pace calculators are good for that and some simulation runs. You might want to try doing the final half of your weekly long run at 2hr pace. If you can do that, then I'm sure that on race day, after a restful taper week, good eating and in a race environment you can sustain that pace.

4. Finally what did YOU learn most from your first half that you took into your second

a) I really didn't need that camelbak, or gels. They gave me confidence for my 1st but weren't required. If you're well hydrated and fed you've got plenty of fuel on board and a few sips at the water station are fine
b) find some people at the start with a similar target pace and hang on to the back of them

greypilgrimess

Good luck on your second half! I have completed 3 so far, 6 months apart. I learned from both of the first two. My training wasn't great for any of them (less mileage than you) but it did improve each time and I got a PR each time too.

1. My first half was 2:13, my second was 2:07. Third was 2:01. So close!

2. I'm not an expert but I would say try and hit an even pace, so begin with the pace you need rather than start out slower with the hope of catching up later. You definitely don't want to start too fast either.

3. I think you learn a lot from your first half so if you trained well (it sounds like you did) then you're very likely to PR. Definitely good to have a goal to shoot for on your second.

4. I learned how to fuel on the race. Actually I learned this after the second. Personally if I don't take in any fuel at mile 6 (energy drink for me), even if I feel fine, then by mile 9 I'm completely flagging. Also I drink at every water stop, even if it's only a few sips.