Drinking Age - Increase, decrease, or none at all?
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OK, I've got about half an hour before I finish work for the day... Tell me your reasons "why the hell not" - I'm sure I can oblige with some debate! :-)
I should probably add that I am sitting backstage, waiting for the lighting designer to cease having a hissy fit, so doubt much more work will get done today anyway ;-)0 -
Ha! Sorry....just saw your reply.
If the legal age is lowered to 18, what would keep 16 year olds from wanting the same? What about 14 year olds if it became legal at 16? At what point do we decide teenagers are mature enough to handle the freedom of purchasing and drinking alcohol freely? Lacking maturity can absolutely affect how one handles an altered state of mind. I realize that many 21 year olds believe they are invinsible, but this is very true of most teenagers.0 -
Ha! Sorry....just saw your reply.
If the legal age is lowered to 18, what would keep 16 year olds from wanting the same? What about 14 year olds if it became legal at 16? At what point do we decide teenagers are mature enough to handle the freedom of purchasing and drinking alcohol freely? Lacking maturity can absolutely affect how one handles an altered state of mind. I realize that many 21 year olds believe they are invinsible, but this is very true of most teenagers.
So you trust an 18 year old to utilize a firearm, allow him to put himself in harm's way for your freedoms, buy a home or enter into other legal contracts, but you don't want them to have a drink? Come on.0 -
Ha! Sorry....just saw your reply.
If the legal age is lowered to 18, what would keep 16 year olds from wanting the same? What about 14 year olds if it became legal at 16? At what point do we decide teenagers are mature enough to handle the freedom of purchasing and drinking alcohol freely? Lacking maturity can absolutely affect how one handles an altered state of mind. I realize that many 21 year olds believe they are invinsible, but this is very true of most teenagers.
So you trust an 18 year old to utilize a firearm, allow him to put himself in harm's way for your freedoms, buy a home or enter into other legal contracts, but you don't want them to have a drink? Come on.
Where did I say that I supported 18 year olds joining the military? Don't make that assumption.0 -
I am in favor of lowering the legal age to 18, and doing like several European countries, where parents/guardians are allowed to give drinks to their kids (must be physically present - can't just give permission). Parents are responsible for their kids, and there are severe consequences if they let their kids get drunk.
Since 18 is considered an adult for just about everything else (legal age of consent, for contracts, etc.), I feel it should apply to drinking independently as well.
This sums it up for me pretty well. I know I sure didn't wait until 21, or even 18, to try alcohol. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who did, though there are some. Whose parents never slipped them at least a sip?
There's just no way around that logic. You can't say someone is mature enough to fight to the death for their country, but not responsible enough for a Miller Lite. It's flat out wrong.0 -
This sums it up for me pretty well. I know I sure didn't wait until 21, or even 18, to try alcohol. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who did, though there are some. Whose parents never slipped them at least a sip?
There's just no way around that logic. You can't say someone is mature enough to fight to the death for their country, but not responsible enough for a Miller Lite. It's flat out wrong.
I do not think 18 year olds are mature enough to be handed a firearm and told to kill people to defend their country, either.
"Whose parents never slipped them at least a sip"? Mine. And I've never slipped mine a sip, either.0 -
Ha! Sorry....just saw your reply.
If the legal age is lowered to 18, what would keep 16 year olds from wanting the same? What about 14 year olds if it became legal at 16? At what point do we decide teenagers are mature enough to handle the freedom of purchasing and drinking alcohol freely? Lacking maturity can absolutely affect how one handles an altered state of mind. I realize that many 21 year olds believe they are invinsible, but this is very true of most teenagers.
But surely if one has had the opportunity to experience the potential effects of alcohol in a safe setting, with parents who provide guidance about what is reasonable and treat this as an adult, ergo mature, responsibility, one is more likely to make the mature and rational decision not to drink to excess. It could well be argued, as with many other things (including chocolate for those on diets!) that forbidding something merely makes it more attractive.
The reality is that 16 year olds, and some 14 year olds, do drink, and often to excess, precisely because it is forbidden and exciting. They can rarely get alcohol and so when they do, they consume too much in the momentary thrill of the forbidden. They have no wider, sane adult context because of draconian prohibition-era laws, so altering the age of legality would not really change that. As I said earlier I drank a little with my parents from an early age, and learnt early on to respect the effects of alcohol. Like anything else in life, drinking responsibly requires education and it's an individual learning curve. It seems to me that the US laws fail to recognise that, and instead prohibit learning until a notional age is reached, at which point the young drinker is free to do as he or she likes, with no context and little information.
I'm not just saying 'lower the drinking age', I'm saying 'make it legal for kids to drink with parental supervision' so that they have the opportunity to learn their own limits and the effects of overindulgence in a safe environment. Then you will have the majority of 18 year olds ready and educated to make rational, mature decisions about alcohol consumption, and in all likelihood, far fewer alcohol-related problems.
On that note, I have just been released, so I'm off to lose the corset and the wig! Bliss! Have a lovely weekend :-)0 -
I do not think 18 year olds are mature enough to be handed a firearm and told to kill people to defend their country, either.
"Whose parents never slipped them at least a sip"? Mine. And I've never slipped mine a sip, either.
That's fair. If you raise the military age to 21 there's no more hypocrisy in the law. But I'm willing to bet a whole lot of generals would fight that one! 18 year olds are at their physical prime, that's who the hawks like to send into battle.
And like I said, it isn't everyone. Some people go their whole lives without a drink. That's cool. Whatever choice you want to make with your life provided it doesn't affect mine. That's generally my personal yardstick and how I think a country as diverse as ours can keep on the path of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Live your life as you see fit and allow others the same courtesy.0 -
Do we have a problem with 14yos wanting the driving age lowered? If the reason not to lower it is because 16yos will want it lowered further, that's just a silly reason. 16yos want to have it lowered to 16 now. They want to be legal adults now. Since when do we pass laws based on what a teenager wants? If that were the case no one over the age of 40 would be allowed to have anything to do with making any law. :laugh:Ha! Sorry....just saw your reply.
If the legal age is lowered to 18, what would keep 16 year olds from wanting the same? What about 14 year olds if it became legal at 16? At what point do we decide teenagers are mature enough to handle the freedom of purchasing and drinking alcohol freely? Lacking maturity can absolutely affect how one handles an altered state of mind. I realize that many 21 year olds believe they are invinsible, but this is very true of most teenagers.
18 is legal adulthood. They can sign contracts and are legally bound by them. If they commit a crime it's automatic that they are prosecuted as an adult. They can join the military. Most are high school graduates. Many live on their own or away at college. If they want to keep the drinking age at 21 then all of those other things need to move up to 21 as well. That will radically change things for a LOT of people. I had a 4yr college degree when I was 21. If I'd have still been a minor that would have been all but impossible as I lived at school and in my own apartment.
My husband makes mead (honey based wine -- can range from very sweet to very dry) We've let both our boys (ages 14 and 11) have small sips. I've let the 14yo have a small glass (about a shot worth of mead, watered down to make a small wine glass amount) every once in a great while. When they get older I'll have no problem at all if they want to have small amounts every once in a while at home while we are there.
That's the way they do it in Europe. It makes much more sense than saying "NO! Absolutely not!" for 20 years then suddenly giving them a green light on their 21st birthday. Can you imagine doing that with anything else? "No dating, no kissing, no boy/girlfriend until you are 18." Then suddenly you are allowed to be sexually active. "No driving, no sitting in the driver's seat, no backing out of the garage." then on their 16th birthday they are given the keys and set loose. Sounds ridiculous right? But that's what many Americans do with alcohol. At 18 most kids are still living at home. At 21 most aren't. If the drinking age is 18 it gives the parents the opportunity to further supervise their kids' alcohol consumption in a safe environment.0 -
Consuming alcohol alters one's state of mind. That is totally different than allowing an 18 year old to drive, see a rated R movie, sign a contract, or buy an M video game. Consuming alcohol to the point of having an altered state of mind leads to impaired judgement. I do not believe 18 year olds (of whom many are still in high school) are mature enough to understand the ramifications of an altered state of mind.
I agree that 18 year olds are too young to be taught how to kill people in battle.0 -
That's the way they do it in Europe. It makes much more sense than saying "NO! Absolutely not!" for 20 years then suddenly giving them a green light on their 21st birthday. Can you imagine doing that with anything else? "No dating, no kissing, no boy/girlfriend until you are 18." Then suddenly you are allowed to be sexually active. "No driving, no sitting in the driver's seat, no backing out of the garage." then on their 16th birthday they are given the keys and set loose. Sounds ridiculous right? But that's what many Americans do with alcohol. At 18 most kids are still living at home. At 21 most aren't. If the drinking age is 18 it gives the parents the opportunity to further supervise their kids' alcohol consumption in a safe environment.
Hopefully by age 21, parents have taught their children the responsible use of freedom. By no means do I believe that just because the legal drinking age is 21 that those younger do not drink. In fact, my 19 year old is "21 in the state of Georgia" (I found his fake ID). I hope that because it's illegal, it's a deterent at least.0 -
Hopefully parents have spent every year of a child's life teaching them to be responsible. What you teach them about responsibility betwee ages 18-21 isn't going to make a bit of difference if you haven't already taught them prior to age 18.
The fact that alcohol alters one's state of mind is all the more reason to lower the age to one when the child is more likely to still be living at home under parental supervision than out on their own with no supervision.0 -
I do not think 18 year olds are mature enough to be handed a firearm and told to kill people to defend their country, either.
"Whose parents never slipped them at least a sip"? Mine. And I've never slipped mine a sip, either.
That's fair. If you raise the military age to 21 there's no more hypocrisy in the law. But I'm willing to bet a whole lot of generals would fight that one! 18 year olds are at their physical prime, that's who the hawks like to send into battle.
And like I said, it isn't everyone. Some people go their whole lives without a drink. That's cool. Whatever choice you want to make with your life provided it doesn't affect mine. That's generally my personal yardstick and how I think a country as diverse as ours can keep on the path of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Live your life as you see fit and allow others the same courtesy.
And the other issue with raising the age to enroll in the military is that many if not most 18 year olds use it instead of doing the whole college thing. They're relying on the military for their schooling and pushing the age back to 21 would create a whole lot of issues.
I just think that my thing is that if an 18 year old is able to legally buy a house or buy a car etc, they should legally be allowed to have a beer. And honestly, someone is an irresponsible brat at 18, they're not going to change that much between then and age 21.0 -
Hopefully parents have spent every year of a child's life teaching them to be responsible. What you teach them about responsibility betwee ages 18-21 isn't going to make a bit of difference if you haven't already taught them prior to age 18.
The fact that alcohol alters one's state of mind is all the more reason to lower the age to one when the child is more likely to still be living at home under parental supervision than out on their own with no supervision.
There is a great difference in maturity from the ages of 18 to 21. I totally agree with you that teaching children the responsible use of freedom should begin at a very early age, and the freedom given should always be age appropriate.
I find no compelling argument that would lead me to believe supervising my under age children to drink is to their benefit.0 -
and honestly, someone is an irresponsible brat at 18, they're not going to change that much between then and age 21.
I've seen many teenagers go from being irresponsible, immature high school students, to mature responsible college students.0 -
and honestly, someone is an irresponsible brat at 18, they're not going to change that much between then and age 21.
I've seen many teenagers go from being irresponsible, immature high school students, to mature responsible college students.
It is really case by case. Some will never mature. I was mature at a young age, working full time while carrying a full load at high school. I believe that in a lot of cases young adults mature more rapidly when giving the responsibility and chance to prove themselves.
There are some really good points in this thread. In general, I think it should be 18 across the board. The reason I do not believe in raising the age of joining the military to 21 is because many young adults go into the military for financial and education reasons. The military takes care of you, and if you do not have parents who will support you after 18 this can be a very viable and saving grace option.0 -
There's a great deal of maturity difference between 21 and 25 too. There's a great deal of maturity difference between 25 and 30 too. Perhaps the drinking age should be raised to 30.0
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There's a great deal of maturity difference between 21 and 25 too. There's a great deal of maturity difference between 25 and 30 too. Perhaps the drinking age should be raised to 30.
I'm sure you would grant that there is a huge difference between 18 and 30.0 -
I think 18 should be the legal age. If you're old enough to serve in the military you're old enough to drink
I agree with this, but... age has nothing to do with having the maturity to drink responsibly. Seen 18 yr olds in the service be responsible. Seen 50 yr olds sloppy drunk....behind the wheel.0 -
All the more reason to raise it to 30. Heck, since some can never really handle it, just do Prohibition all over again.There's a great deal of maturity difference between 21 and 25 too. There's a great deal of maturity difference between 25 and 30 too. Perhaps the drinking age should be raised to 30.
I'm sure you would grant that there is a huge difference between 18 and 30.0
