religion, reincarnation, deja vu, etc.
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Interesting premise, can you request excommunication? Hmmm.0
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Hmm...that seems really stupid. Why would they want someone who clearly wants nothing to do with them? Makes no sense. Then again, a lot of stuff in religion doesn't. Not trying to be rude, just my simple observation.
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whoops, sorry, double post.0
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Well I may have been raised as a Catholic, but BELIEVE ME you sure can leave the church. It's an easy enough process:
1. Stop believing.
2. Stop attending.
And there you have it. Whatever meta-physical claims the Catholic church wants to make on your soul or whatever are pretty meaningless if you make the decision for yourself that you don't believe it anymore. The only power someone has over you is the power you give them.0 -
Well I may have been raised as a Catholic, but BELIEVE ME you sure can leave the church. It's an easy enough process:
1. Stop believing.
2. Stop attending.
And there you have it. Whatever meta-physical claims the Catholic church wants to make on your soul or whatever are pretty meaningless if you make the decision for yourself that you don't believe it anymore. The only power someone has over you is the power you give them.
Well, the poster obviously feels strongly about even the church considering him Catholic, so I'm looking into Canon Law. Of course anyone can stop attending mass and calling himself Catholic, but I think we're looking for the church's position.0 -
Well I may have been raised as a Catholic, but BELIEVE ME you sure can leave the church. It's an easy enough process:
1. Stop believing.
2. Stop attending.
And there you have it. Whatever meta-physical claims the Catholic church wants to make on your soul or whatever are pretty meaningless if you make the decision for yourself that you don't believe it anymore. The only power someone has over you is the power you give them.
Well, the poster obviously feels strongly about even the church considering him Catholic, so I'm looking into Canon Law. Of course anyone can stop attending mass and calling himself Catholic, but I think we're looking for the church's position.
I'd be curious to know what you find out. My catholic side of the family always told me that once a Roman Catholic, always a Roman Catholic, but whether this is a matter of Canon law or not, I'd be interested to find out.0 -
Well, the poster obviously feels strongly about even the church considering him Catholic, so I'm looking into Canon Law. Of course anyone can stop attending mass and calling himself Catholic, but I think we're looking for the church's position.I'd be curious to know what you find out. My catholic side of the family always told me that once a Roman Catholic, always a Roman Catholic, but whether this is a matter of Canon law or not, I'd be interested to find out.
Roger that. Do let us know what you find. My gf's mother also says "Once a Catholic always a Catholic."0 -
1. Atheist/Humanist
2. Clearly the answer here is no, I don't believe in reincarnation, karma, etc.
3. Déjà vu is easily explained - it's caused by a glitch in the Matrix. :flowerforyou:0 -
what is your religious background and current affiliation (if any)? I went to a Baptist church as a kid now I belong to an Independent Baptist church.
do you believe in reincarnation and karma in future lives? (if so, how does this tie into your aforementioned beliefs?) I believe that when we die we either go to Heaven or Hell but I don't believe we live again on earth as ourselves or someone esle.
deja vu: have you experienced it? have stories? how do you explain it? (and again, how does THIS tie into your beliefs?) I have experienced deja vu in the past. I don't know how to explain it though but I don't believe it's because I've lived this life before.0 -
I'd be curious to know what you find out. My catholic side of the family always told me that once a Roman Catholic, always a Roman Catholic, but whether this is a matter of Canon law or not, I'd be interested to find out.
In discussions with theologians, the interpretation of this goes something like this: Baptism is a mark on your soul that you cannot reverse. It's like saying you don't want your parents to be your parents. You were born to them, and they'll always be your parents, whether you claim them or not. You can decide to become an atheist, and no longer consider yourself Catholic or recieve any of the benefits of being a Catholic. The term "once a Catholic, always a Catholic" is really meant to be a way of saying, "You're always family and welcome to come back to the church". So, let's say someone was baptized Catholic, then became atheist, but later decided to be Catholic again, he would not need to be baptized all over again. He could attend reconciliation, and be welcome back with open arms.
Regarding actual Canon Law/declarations, I'm still looking into that.0 -
I've never understood why people say they can't "leave" the Catholic church. I know, you're baptized and stuff...but if you TRULY do not believe, then why would you even think that you can't leave it? Just disassociate yourself from it.
Why can't you leave the Catholic church?
[/quote]Hmm...that seems really stupid. Why would they want someone who clearly wants nothing to do with them? Makes no sense. Then again, a lot of stuff in religion doesn't. Not trying to be rude, just my simple observation.Well I may have been raised as a Catholic, but BELIEVE ME you sure can leave the church. It's an easy enough process:
1. Stop believing.
2. Stop attending.
And there you have it. Whatever meta-physical claims the Catholic church wants to make on your soul or whatever are pretty meaningless if you make the decision for yourself that you don't believe it anymore. The only power someone has over you is the power you give them.
Will just try to address all of these points in one post.
Obviously I am not a Catholic, however the Catholic church still has me 'on the books' and while you may think this is irrelevant if I don't believe I strongly disagree. I'll expand on this in a second.
Up until recently, it was possible to leave the Catholic church officially. You filled in a form, sent it to the Bishop and you were removed. After the child abuse scandals broke, there was a big movement here in Ireland to do this process and disassociate from the church called 'Count me out' http://countmeout.ie/. 40,000 people did this in a short space of time and more were lining up as things got worse. In response to this the Catholic church removed this option and it is no longer possible to leave the church.
Someone asked above why the church would do this? Why they would want people who didn't believe? A naive but valid question. It's not about belief, if it were then confirmation would take place at an age where someone is old enough to know what they want. For the catholic church, it's a numbers game.
Why do the numbers matter if you don't believe? Numbers=power. The numbers make the church one of the biggest in the world, this gives them power. Think of them going to under-developed countries with little education and saying 'Most people believe this' etc.
On a more personal note, it makes a difference to my life. The numbers of the catholic church means it still has power in my country, Ireland, though it's diminishing (not quickly enough). Their numbers mean the vast majority of schools (over 90%) are Catholic schools. What does this mean? It means that most children/parents have no access to non-denominational education. It also means that teachers don't have access to non-denominational jobs. As a teacher, I could be fired for being an atheist, or gay etc etc. So most keep quiet. That's just one example. Another is that non religious people cannot marry at the weekend, there is no provision for them to do so. Why would there be sure most people are 'Catholic'.
So, yes, for me the numbers matter. No, I'm not a catholic, but they still use me and others like to for power and to spread their influence.
That is why it sickens me.0 -
Well I may have been raised as a Catholic, but BELIEVE ME you sure can leave the church. It's an easy enough process:
1. Stop believing.
2. Stop attending.
And there you have it. Whatever meta-physical claims the Catholic church wants to make on your soul or whatever are pretty meaningless if you make the decision for yourself that you don't believe it anymore. The only power someone has over you is the power you give them.
Yep. That's exactly what I was thinking, as well. They can't hold claim over someone unless that person lets them.0 -
Yep. That's exactly what I was thinking, as well. They can't hold claim over someone unless that person lets them.
Addressed in the post above. They can still use you, and affect your life, whether you believe in them or accept them or not.0 -
Raised Jewish, but if we're talking about belief, then I've been an atheist for my whole life. I remember going to synagogue with my parents when I was a kid - the rabbi would start a reading, "And Jonah lived in the belly of the whale for three days." I just couldn't take it seriously, and God kind of sounded like a jerk to me.
I like the idea of reincarnation, but ultimately I feel that after death, there is nothing - just as we came into existence, we cease to exist. That's why it's so important for me to live my life to the fullest and enjoy every waking moment.0 -
Yep. That's exactly what I was thinking, as well. They can't hold claim over someone unless that person lets them.
Addressed in the post above. They can still use you, and affect your life, whether you believe in them or accept them or not.
I read that post. I still stand by what I said, and agree with the person I quoted. They have no claim over you whatsoever unless you let them.0 -
Right, so despite the fact that they can get me fired from my job and decide when I can marry(just 2 examples) they've no power over me cos you say so? Okey dokey....0
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As a teacher, I could be fired for being an atheist, or gay etc etc.
Are you saying that you're a teacher in a Catholic school? If so, then it seems reasonable to me that you'd lose your job for being an atheist or speaking out about how the Catholic church "sickens" you.0 -
Right, so despite the fact that they can get me fired from my job and decide when I can marry(just 2 examples) they've no power over me cos you say so? Okey dokey....
Where do you work that the Catholic church can get you fired from your job? And other than legal age of consent and all that, how do they decide WHEN you can marry?0
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