Standing on a trainer?

broadsword7

I have issues with standing on my new fluid trainer. I love the trainer, and the fact I can get workouts in the winter on my own bike. But...every time I stand it wobbles. And I feel like I am not getting enough resistance on the pedals even in my highest gear. What's up? Is this normal, or do I need to adjust the tension more. Right now, the wheel is pushing my rear tire in about 1/8 of an inch, which is what my LBS guy told me to do. Any thoughts mucho appreciato!

TheBigYin

did the trainer not come with an instruction booklet - both systems I've had have had VERY detailed instructions with respect to setting up the trainer, resistance and so forth. Normally, you'd ensure that (for 700c 23mm tyres) you'd get around 100-110 psi in the tyre, then wind the roller up to to the recommended friction level. I would usually do a "rolldown" test every time I dropped the bike in the trainer - get up to 25mph, and stop pedalling, and time the back wheel to when it stops. If it takes longer than this datum level, you either need more air in the tyre, or more friction on the roller. If it takes less time, wind the friction down a bit and repeat. At least this way the workout levels should be comparable.

It's difficult to advise more than this without knowing the particular trainer you're using - I've basically only used 4 types

1 - my Cateye cs1000 which had a adjustable magnetic eddy current braking system and a small air resistance fan. It had a lever on the front, in front of the handlebars, which allowed resistance from what you'd get as wind resistance on the flat, through to something like a 15% gradient.

2 - the original "turbo trainer" which just had a big fan vane mounted on the roller, no flywheel effect to speak of and was essentially resistance free until the rear wheel was doing 20mph then ramped up exponentially until at 30mph you needed to be pushing out 600w of power to keep it spinning

3 - a simple brake resistance unit which just had a lever that mounted to the bars, and operated the brake using a bowden cable to adjust the drag. Again, similar to the Cateye, you'd need first gear and to stand on the pedals to turn a crank on the higher settings.

4 - my Bushido, which can provide resistance up to a sustained 900w or so, depending on rider weight etc. This translates to "impossible to turn the cranks over even in 34t front ring and a 25 at the rear" and usually kicks in half way around a hairpin bend on one of the Real Life Videos like the Mortirolo or the Stelvio...

As far as the wobbling - have you got one of those Wheel Block things for the front wheel ? I find that they definitely help by keeping the bars at their normal height relative to the saddle...

I'd search the internet for a instruction book on the trainer, if you haven't allready got one - or perhaps see if the manufacturer has a support forum where you can get specific advice for your specific model.

broadsword7

The only book that came with it was the instructions to assemble it. Which I didn't have to do because my LBS guy basically sold me one right off his counter, already assembled. Nothing on their website that I can easily see. But here is the trainer:

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/gear/product/cyclotron.fluid.comp.trainer/555/36919/

TheBigYin

not massively detailed, is it - though in fairness, it doesn't look like theres much in the way of adjustment to be done in any case, other than getting the tyre friction right....

broadsword7

Yes that's right. I have the rear wheel centered, the only other adjustment to make is the tension knob for the friction. It's pressing the rear tire in about an eighth of an inch. I suppose I could experiment and add more tension and see how for it will go. On a spin bike in class, you can get the tension so high while you are standing that when you sit back down, you can barely pedal. I don't expect I will be able to do that, but it would be nice to be able to stand and feel a lot of resistance. I was just curious about other riders with similar trainers, if they have issues with standing.

TheBigYin

Well - to be honest, I doubt that you'd be able to get that kind of resistance from stationery out of any fluid damped turbo - though - as with the man carrying a pair of orthopedic shoes - i'm prepared to stand corrected!

I always thought that the Magnetic resistance jobs were more suited to the low revs/high resistance type work, though to be honest, I tend to prefer to do more fast paced, turning the cranks over quickly and getting my cardio system pumping stuff on the stationery trainer - mainly because I'm not 100% happy swinging about standing on the pedals at my current weight - it puts an awful lot of stress through the trainer's frame, and relys a hell of a lot on how sticky the rubber under my wheel-lifting device is... That's one bit I liked the Cateye for - it actually replaced the front wheel - you bolted the bike onto a frame which held the front end of the bike stock still...

broadsword7

Nice set up! I will keep working on it. I wish I had enough dough to get a new wheelset now (next year's tax return), because what I would like to do is get new rubber too, and then put a training tire on the old wheel and use it exclusively on the trainer. As it is now, the Conti GP tire I have on the rear wheel is on it's last days, and the more wear and tear I put on it while it's on the trainer, the less I am inclined to take the bike off the trainer if I happen to get decent riding weather. All convoluted logic, yes, but it's the way my brain works. I am putting so much stress on that tire now that I know for certain as soon as I take the bike off the trainer and head out on the road with it, it will blow. So I have committed to just use the trainer and break out the MTB I bought and learn to ride it.

As for standing, I will continue to try to do it on my trainer, but fortunately I am also taking a spin class and standing on those spin bikes is no problem whatsoever!

TheBigYin

My preferred climbing style has always been to sit in and spin to be honest, and with all the knee troubles I've had this year, i'm sticking as rigorously as I can to continuing in that manner. With all the excess upper body weight as soon as I stand my power at the back wheel goes up a few % points, but my HR hits the roof... still - 76lb of excess lard gone, and things are getting better, and who knows - by next summer, I might even be able to "dance on the pedals" myself

broadsword7

I KNOW you will! Last year, I could barely stand for a few seconds at a time in the saddle. That was at 275 pounds. Now at 195-200 (it goes up and down), I can stand for an entire hill. In fact, I love it. I have tricky knees also, so I am careful, but this year I climbed one of the steepest hills around in my area, and I stood the entire time. It felt great. So during my winter training, I am trying to mix it up. Because next spring, I wanna take on an even tougher, longer, threatening climb. I like threatening and treacherous. I like being able to put those terms back in their place. Yeah, I am sick.

zoom2

I think it has to depend upon the individual trainer--even the same model. My hubby has a CycleOps fluid trainer...it is awful. The resistance is so high that I am guaranteed to work MUCH harder for 3mph slower than I would on the road. I've ridden another of the same model and the opposite was true--I couldn't get enough resistance with that one.

I prefer magnetic trainers. I like being able to adjust the resistance to my needs.

thcri

I have the Cycle Ops Fluid Squared. It does work you a lot harder than the street does but even with that standing up is not easy and you seem to flop around so I don't much other than to get blood flow going again. I have fixed up my old mountain bike plan on riding outside throughout the winter if I can handle the cold here in Minnesota.

zoom2

I have the Cycle Ops Fluid Squared. It does work you a lot harder than the street does but even with that standing up is not easy and you seem to flop around so I don't much other than to get blood flow going again. I have fixed up my old mountain bike plan on riding outside throughout the winter if I can handle the cold here in Minnesota.

This is true, too. I imagine the taller and heavier a person is, the more noticeable this is, as well.

Like you, I hope to get outdoors this year...even if only for 10 miles/week. The last 2 winters I only had a road bike, but now I have the CX bike (which can take studded tires) and the mtn. bike. Cold will really be my only limiting factor...and if the snow is so deep that the roads are rendered narrow by the snowbanks on the sides. I don't even like running, then.

TheBigYin

Just spent the last half hour watching the RLV (Real Life Video) simulation for my Tacx Trainer of the climb up Alpe d'Huez... it certainly looks like I'd better get used to standing up, at least for the hairpins - I know I had to when I rode it back in my 20's - though that was on my old Bob Jackson with a 53/39 Record chainset up front and a 13-24 at the back... I can feel my knees throbbing at the prospect of that gearing just typing the numbers, never mind at the end of something like the Marmotte :noway:

pinkgigi

Careful about putting too much resistance on your back tyre, I've shredded tyres on the wind trainer before, and now have a spare wheel with a specific wind trainer tyre on it for the purspose.

GG

thcri

Careful about putting too much resistance on your back tyre, I've shredded tyres on the wind trainer before, and now have a spare wheel with a specific wind trainer tyre on it for the purspose.

GG

Absolutely. Good thought. I have a Trainer Specific Tire. Hard as can be to get on and off though. Luckily you only do it twice a year.

TheBigYin

Well - I had a proper go at hill-climbing on the Bushido - I decided i'd have a reconnaisance run up the Alpe D'Huez I mentioned above. Now - I'm a realist, and I knew there was no way that I was going to get up a hill that climbs 3517ft in a single 8.6mile drag of 7.8% average grade, with occasional 12.4% peaks.

Course was 13.84 miles in total, and started wth a run down the last 800 feet/5.2 miles of the Lautaret - just as a warmup spin. Then - you hit the village and the slope just goes BOOM...

So - knowing I wasn't going to get up there on my bike with gearing suitable for my local roads (50/36 and a 11-25 if anyones interested) - I took the option of reducing the % power requirements of the hill - effectively scaling it down to 60% of its real effect. To calibrate the Bushido, I'd previously borrowed a cycleops ANT+ powertap wheel from a mate at the LBS for a couple of days, rode my regular road loop with the powertap wheel, then imported the ride into the bushido, and adjusted things until riding at the same speed on the VR trainer gave the same power figure on the bushido, and the powertap wheel.

And even at 60% I did around 7.5 miles of solid climbing before my legs just said "no more sunshine, no more!" It's still the hardest i've worked on a bike in years, and the figure is completely NOT reflected in the calorie consumption, because the elastic on my HRM strap went "ping" at around mile 2 - so all the fancy kit thinks I rode up that hill at a nice steady HR of 0 :laugh:

And YES, I did have to stand up for the 12% bits, and YES, I was scared daft while doing it, and NO I'll not be trying the hill at 60% again for a couple of thousand miles and at least another 100lb's shed. I'll give it a go at 45% (just to get a complete ride in that I can chase!!) when I find my legs again - I'm sure they were attached earlier today, but they seem to have gone missing at the moment!

pukekolive

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