Christianity and “Biblical” Hatefulness
kennethmgreen
Posts: 1,759 Member
A friend of mine posted this on Facebook today. I hadn't seen it before, pretty good stuff.
Clobbering "Biblical" Gay Bashing -
http://www.thegodarticle.com/7/post/2011/10/clobbering-biblical-gay-bashing.html
Clobbering "Biblical" Gay Bashing -
http://www.thegodarticle.com/7/post/2011/10/clobbering-biblical-gay-bashing.html
0
Replies
-
Really my only problem is a strict literal interpretation of the Bible. From a linguistic perspective alone, not to mention sociological and anthropological view, completely literal interpretations are ridiculous.
And while I'm on the topic, see how I used the term "the" Bible there?...as if there were only one? Yeah, about that...0 -
Agreed. As soon as someone wants to interpret "the" Bible as divinely-inspired unfallible words, all credibility is lost for me. It's a no-won situation at that point.
In the article, at the beginning of the Making Choices section, the guy writes:The point is this: most of us have matured enough theologically to recognize that we need to contextualize the writings of the Bible, and because of it we have moved passed using these examples as the end-all-be-all on acceptable practices of sexuality. However, somehow, we have not managed to apply the very same understanding to the Bible verses that have become known as the “clobber verses” in the Bible. “Clobber" because they are the verses most used to clobber people who are gay or who support gay rights.
That is really interesting when you consider that, of all the topics I just mentioned, sexual orientation is the only one that is not a choice. Polygamy, concubines, marrying your brother's widow? All choices, and we have decided to “get over” the biblical directives for them. Sexual orientation? Not a choice. (There are those who still argue otherwise, but the science is clear, so I'm not even having that discussion). So many Christians just aren't able to get past that one. Equally interesting to consider: it is actually more of a choice to judge and marginalize people over being homosexual, or, bi-sexual, or queer; than it is a choice to be homosexual, or, bi-sexual, or queer. Yet we judge them and not ourselves.
Why do people get SO hung up on sexuality? Are we really still that weirded out by anything to do with sex? Why do so many Christians cling to this one?0 -
There's a relatively large contingent, some of whom are very powerful, who seems to think that simply asserting something as true makes it true. I.E. "Traditional marriage has been the same for thousands of years." Obviously this isn't the case. The briefest and most rudimentary search in a library can supply plenty of evidence to counter this notion in approximately 10 minutes.
So it's not a huge leap for these same people to simply just believe that whatever random interpretation of biblical verse is from God's own mouth, and is therefore also true.
I sometimes like to ask these people if they think God gave them free will so that they could simply turn off their brains.0 -
Instead of working like I should be I took the time to read this & I looove it!!
Thank you for sharing!0 -
But I don't think it's stupidity. That's too dismissive, like a cop-out. I am genuinely perplexed by some tightly-held beliefs - perplexed at the beliefs themselves and why they are so tightly held.
I suspect many people get really uncomfortable (FEAR) having beliefs challenged in any way when those beliefs are something they have held onto as TRUTHS for years, often since childhood.0 -
As the old hymn goes: "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so".
Just a pity that his attributed "father" is recorded as being seen to hate everybody and everyone who didn't conform to his very strict, orthodox views and condemned most to the most horrific of deaths.
It's certainly an interesting article and one that deserves to be re-read in more depth methinks.0 -
People have used goofy passages in the bible to justify the hate they feel for centuries. Actually I think that's one of the main selling points for a lot of people. They used the bible to justify slavery, they used the bible to oppress women, now they use it to persecute gays.
Most of them don't have a clue what's in it. If they did they'd pick a better book to base their lives off of.
I forget the passage but the Old Testament said the cure for leprosy is to take a live bird and a dead bird, dip the live bird in the dead bird's blood and spray exactly 7 drops on the infected person. You know, to cure the leprosy.
GREAT book! TOOOTALLY written by the divine creator of the universe!0 -
Kenneth__Thanks for posting this. I took the time to read all of it. While I have no problem with faith, I find that religion often gets in the way of common sense.0
-
Speaking of this, I want to recommend the documentary "For the Bible Tells Me So" (http://www.forthebibletellsmeso.org). It introduces several religious families each coming to terms with their religion and homosexuality while also discussing how different interpretations of the Bible have been used to persecute different groups of people at different points in history. A very moving film. I think I saw it streaming on Netflix this past summer. I'm not sure if it is still available there, but check it out if you can.As the old hymn goes: "Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so".0 -
"for the bible tells me so" is an amazing documentary. People who interpret the bible literally aren't going anywhere. Just ignore them. God made you the way you are. My best friend is a gay man and he has such an internal struggle over this because of the environment he was raised in. He is so scared he is going to hell. The fact anyone ever made him feel that way breaks my heart and made me cry so much to even think about. There is no way the greatest person I have ever met is going to hell yet the people so filled with hatred towards him are going to Heaven.0
-
I suspect many people get really uncomfortable (FEAR) having beliefs challenged in any way when those beliefs are something they have held onto as TRUTHS for years, often since childhood.
Yup
For me, it was exactly this- I'd been told over and over and over again that homosexuality (or transgender or what have you) was wrong, evil, deviant, whatever. I created this 'don't even go there' wall. I'm not sure I can really explain it... but I just wasn't willing to even let myself consider that maybe God didn't really feel the way about homosexuality that my church leaders said he felt.
It was really hard to take the wall down. It had nothing to do with intelligence. I'm a science nerd. I can handle the 'thinking' part. It was... something... some artificially created barrier... built by fear and conditioning.
But I did it. Others have too. It takes a special courage to question what we're taught never to question (lest we be damned!!!). But fortunately for me, I just can't believe in a God that can be as hateful as some of his supposed people are.0 -
Thanks for sharing this article! I love when I read things that I agree with, it gives me the warm fuzzies.
:smooched: 0 -
A friend of mine posted this on Facebook today. I hadn't seen it before, pretty good stuff.
Clobbering "Biblical" Gay Bashing -
http://www.thegodarticle.com/7/post/2011/10/clobbering-biblical-gay-bashing.html
Great Blog!0 -
Here's the thing...people claiming to be christians who use religion to justify hatred of any kind (child abuse, mysogeny, homophobia, racism, ablism, classism, etc.) Are not following the words or examples of Jesus. He said love your neighbor as yourself. He did not add an addendum that aid "except if they are queer". Supposedly, for christans, jesus' words overrde the ancient laws of an eye for a eye, kill those not like you, etc. His whole point was : love each other. Treat everyone with respect, even if you can't see where they are coming from. Do good things for others. Respect yourself.
I am not a christian, but i have respect for the teachings of great teachers such as Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed, Martin Luthar King, Gandhi, and a ric diversity of other people of wisdom, some of whom I don't know of yet.
I have difficulty when people paint a very personal relationship to the devine with broad stereotypical brush. Sometimes I find myself doing that, and I try to catch myself and remind myself that the LGBTQ+ comunity has some very strong allies in communities of faith and it is as unfair of me to say "all Christians are homophobic" as it is for someon to say "lesbians hate men". (That is a discussion for another day!).
Some of our allies include: the UnitedChurch of Christ, the Unitarian Universalist Church, Dignity, Discipls of Christ (I think that is their name), Metropolitan Community Church, there are also individual churces throughout the world that are "welcoming and affirming", there are also countless individual people of faith who go to bat for us evry day in small ways, as part of their faith and spiritual path.
My best friend is a lesbian UCC minister at a church with a large population of transgender, lesbian, gay, bi, questioning folks who praise their god together in deep loving, worshipful ways and words.
It is just as wrong for us to acuse another group with a blanket stereotypical knee jerk assumptions. As an out ad proud lesbian for over twenty years, I get angry when I hear someone refer to "the gay lifestyle". What is that? Bar hopping and promiscuity, or I it comforting your child when they have a skinned knee or get teased for having two dads? How is broadbrushing the whole of christandom any better than broadbrushing those of us who love someone different than what is expected of us? How can we point fingers of accusation when it ishappening here, now among our own?
We name homophobia for what it is...fear of LGBT people and sometimes that takes on a very prsonal, hateful and painful form that often starts,but does not always end with hateful words because of lck of understanding, fear and bing unable t see us as equals, or even to look us in the eye or having an honest conversation with us about what it means t be queer in a hostile world. How is bashing those of faith any different? We fear "them" for what we have heard or experienced in the past. We group all of "them" into one category, falling under the umbrella of that which we fear and therefore distain. And, like me so many of us walk in th straight world, keepingthis beloved queer side of us in the shadows for fear of being branded "other", there are many in the LGBTQ community who also feel that within this beloved community of diversity and queerdom, they have to keep their faith, that part of them that feeds their soul in a different way, hidden in the shadows for fear of being branded "other".
Sorry for the rant. I just believe that speaking truth to those we agree with is just as important as speaking truth to power and confronting injustice and homophobia where we see it.
Is there a way to make this a safe space for all of us, free of judgement and stereotypes?0 -
The only issue I had to deal with when my daughter came out to me was my religious background. I was terrifed she would burn in hell for all eternity.
I prayed, and read, and prayed and read............and continued to love and support my beautiful daughter
One day a woman from the church was railing (sp) about gays and "them people" who tear up there body(transgender).......how they are an 'abomination before God"...................:brokenheart:
It occured to me at that very moment she had had 2 children out of wedlock, had a tummy tuck and botox injections, and was filled with hate.
It was at that moment He revealed himself to me. He is That was my last time at church. I pray more now then ever before and feel closer to God than ever in my life.
More on topic, I remember Phil Donahue had on a racist family.......scratch that-a hate filled HORRIBLE family. There were 3-4 children sitting at a kiddie table coloring. The parents were in chairs, 2 couples holding hands in chairs behind their children.
They LOOKED like hate
(isn't God supposed to make us happy?)
I was 16 at the time, and my mom had dated black men, so I had dealt with hatred. One of the children said the N word and it made me cry. Hate from a baby was so sad for me.
Then Phil asked them where in the bible they were told that whites should be only with whites, and that people of any other color were below them, as he had studied the bible and not read this anywhere.
The nasty woman in the middle pulled out 'The' bible and pointed out one line. O N E LINE! It was about separating the races because He was going to save his people from slavery and death. If they mixed, then they would die with the sinners.
Deuteronomy 7:3-4 ESV / 8 helpful votes
You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly.
These people on stage, their children, their friends, had their entire lives set up based on ONE misinterpreted line in the bible.
All of this came back to me when my daughter came out. I am so thankful "Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so"0 -
The only issue I had to deal with when my daughter came out to me was my religious background. I was terrifed she would burn in hell for all eternity. I prayed, and read, and prayed and read............and continued to love and support my beautiful daughter
One day a woman from the church was railing (sp) about gays and "them people" who tear up there body(transgender).......how they are an 'abomination before God"...................:brokenheart:
It occured to me at that very moment she had had 2 children out of wedlock, had a tummy tuck and botox injections, and was filled with hate.
It was at that moment He revealed himself to me. He is That was my last time at church. I pray more now then ever before and feel closer to God than ever in my life.
More on topic, I remember Phil Donahue had on a racist family.......scratch that-a hate filled HORRIBLE family. There were 3-4 children sitting at a kiddie table coloring. The parents were in chairs, 2 couples holding hands in chairs behind their children.
They LOOKED like hate (isn't God supposed to make us happy?)
I was 16 at the time, and my mom had dated black men, so I had dealt with hatred. One of the children said the N word and it made me cry. Hate from a baby was so sad for me.
Then Phil asked them where in the bible they were told that whites should be only with whites, and that people of any other color were below them, as he had studied the bible and not read this anywhere.
The nasty woman in the middle pulled out 'The' bible and pointed out one line. O N E LINE! It was about separating the races because He was going to save his people from slavery and death. If they mixed, then they would die with the sinners.
Deuteronomy 7:3-4 ESV / 8 helpful votes
You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the Lord would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly.
These people on stage, their children, their friends, had their entire lives set up based on ONE misinterpreted line in the bible.
All of this came back to me when my daughter came out. I am so thankful "Jesus loves me this I know, for the bible tells me so"
This brought tears to my eyes. A few years ago I worked with a young woman, at first I was undecided as to her physical gender. She was and is lesbian and was at that time dressing in a very masculine manner. I was the charge nurse and she was one of the aides. We had butted heads a few times about work quality. Many months later we were there for an extended period because of weather and other employees were unable to get there to relieve us. We sat and talked and found we both had misconceptions about each other. She thought when I reprimanded her it was based on her lifestyle. It wasn't and I thought she was a rude disagreeable person. She was defensive because she'd caught alot of attitude about her orientation. In fact she was a nice person. She was very young and had been rejected by family members. She asked me if I would allow my daughter to be around her. (daughter was about 5 at the time). I told her I saw no reason why not. She cried! This young woman expected to be rejected. How sad! She came from a very religious family...I do understand that not all people of faith would react in the same way.0 -
This is one of my favorite tumblrs. http://gaychristian.tumblr.com/resources If you are interested in reconciling Christian faith with homosexuality, it's a great resource.0
-
thank you so much for sharing this! i have bookmarked the page. i also sent the link to my mom. she's a christian and is having trouble being an ally.0
-
My viewpoint on this subject; the Bible is full of contradictions and you can find a verse to back up any side of an argument in it. I'm a Catholic and I do have faith but I don't like people trying to justify hatred or intolerance of any type by referencing one line from the Bible. For every verse that appears to refer to condemning people; there are just as many that tell us to be accepting of all people.John 15:12
12 - This is my commandment: that you love one another as I have loved you.
Basically, people will always try to justify their own opinions by referencing one verse. However, if they widen their reading of the Bible they will find a totally opposing viewpoint.0 -
My viewpoint on this subject; the Bible is full of contradictions and you can find a verse to back up any side of an argument in it. I'm a Catholic and I do have faith but I don't like people trying to justify hatred or intolerance of any type by referencing one line from the Bible. For every verse that appears to refer to condemning people; there are just as many that tell us to be accepting of all people.John 15:12
12 - This is my commandment: that you love one another as I have loved you.
Basically, people will always try to justify their own opinions by referencing one verse. However, if they widen their reading of the Bible they will find a totally opposing viewpoint.
my favorite bible verse. thank you for sharing 0 -
Where I stand, the bible is a historical document. The words were written by human hands....and as we know, humanity is nowhere near perfect.0
-
http://events.r20.constantcontact.com/register/event?llr=qtc56meab&oeidk=a07e5cwwj990ae9597f
Their main website is http://www.lhohcf.ca/
They are located in Vancouver, BC Canada and the workshop is scheduled for Feb. 4, 2012 from 10am-4pm.
I'm attending with friends and former pastors of Living Water Fellowship of Kenmore, Washington, USA, Susan and Debbie George.Guest Speaker: S.S. Shaw of Shaw Ministries Dallas, TX
Have you been told homosexuality is a sin?
Were you taught that the Bible condemns homosexuals?
Have you heard there is no such thing as a gay Christian?
Have you been told that being gay is an abomination and gay people will go to hell?
In this one day workshop, Shaw will share her own journey mixed with an infectious sense of humor and solid biblical knowlegde to dispell the myths & mistranslations that have kept so many separated from a relationship with God.0 -
Netflix has a great movie: "Fish Out of Water" (streaming)
"Spurred by director Ky ****ens's own coming-out story, this playfully animated documentary confronts the slippery topic of homosexuality head on, homing in on Bible verses oft-cited as condemnatory and opening them to fresh interpretation. A cartoon narrator guides a broad-minded exploration of the thorny issue as a range of individuals in red states and blue, from theologians to barbershop denizens, weigh in with their experiences and beliefs."
I highly recommend it.0 -
"Spurred by director Ky ****ens's own coming-out story,
I don't know whether to laugh or cry that MFP edited the name D ! C K E N S.0 -
What in the world? sigh.
"Spurred by director Ky ****ens's own coming-out story,
I don't know whether to laugh or cry that MFP edited the name D ! C K E N S.0
This discussion has been closed.