Furry Friend Frustration....advice.
DayumStraightIAmEllie
Posts: 160 Member
Had one of my worst days today:(
I have three dogs.
A 14 year or so old cocker spaniel named Spunky who definitely is touchy about his space. He used to be the alpha male and is still trying to hold his own. Doesn't share food well and likes his space.
I have a calm yet love demanding rottie girl named Sassy who is about 10 years old. She lets the boys do what they do best, fight but tries to bud in to see what is going on.
Lastly the ego crazy puppy, Maxxie. He is a lab/basset hound mix. Maxxie is about a year old and loves to challenge the cocker spaniel. A couple months ago, maybe about 4 or 5 months, we took the cocker spaniel, Spunky, in for a hair cut. He does not like to be touched in most places so we have to take him in. But that was a shock to the puppy. And ever sense it has been extra worse with those two. They normally get along. But now the littlest thing gets the cocker spaniel to start growling at the puppy.
Two things that cause my frustration. Sometimes my father will be petting the Spunky my older male dog and my puppy will get jealous and start antagonizing Spunky. And they start fighting. Or the worst type of scenario is when they fight over food.
Today was pretty bad. The cocker spaniel found a piece of food and was checking it out when the puppy came over to see what was going on and Spunky jumped all over him. They fought like it was a death match. I dumped water on them and my dad yelled at them to stop. But nothing worked. They were really at it. Finally the older dog Spunky snuck under something and got away and i was able to grab the puppy and lock him up.
The older dog is now limping and was bleeding earlier but how bad was kind of hard to tell because he is touchy. He seems okay for now. We are keeping the puppy away from him so he can rest and heal up.
Anyone else have these problems? What do you do? My oldest dog is getting too old for this type of stuff. And i dont want my puppy learning this behavior. But they are both very much "male" dogs and they try to compete for the alpha male position. There are like 5 people in my household so trying to train him is incredibly hard because they all dont want to bother with the training and that's why it doesn't work.
Suggestions???
I have three dogs.
A 14 year or so old cocker spaniel named Spunky who definitely is touchy about his space. He used to be the alpha male and is still trying to hold his own. Doesn't share food well and likes his space.
I have a calm yet love demanding rottie girl named Sassy who is about 10 years old. She lets the boys do what they do best, fight but tries to bud in to see what is going on.
Lastly the ego crazy puppy, Maxxie. He is a lab/basset hound mix. Maxxie is about a year old and loves to challenge the cocker spaniel. A couple months ago, maybe about 4 or 5 months, we took the cocker spaniel, Spunky, in for a hair cut. He does not like to be touched in most places so we have to take him in. But that was a shock to the puppy. And ever sense it has been extra worse with those two. They normally get along. But now the littlest thing gets the cocker spaniel to start growling at the puppy.
Two things that cause my frustration. Sometimes my father will be petting the Spunky my older male dog and my puppy will get jealous and start antagonizing Spunky. And they start fighting. Or the worst type of scenario is when they fight over food.
Today was pretty bad. The cocker spaniel found a piece of food and was checking it out when the puppy came over to see what was going on and Spunky jumped all over him. They fought like it was a death match. I dumped water on them and my dad yelled at them to stop. But nothing worked. They were really at it. Finally the older dog Spunky snuck under something and got away and i was able to grab the puppy and lock him up.
The older dog is now limping and was bleeding earlier but how bad was kind of hard to tell because he is touchy. He seems okay for now. We are keeping the puppy away from him so he can rest and heal up.
Anyone else have these problems? What do you do? My oldest dog is getting too old for this type of stuff. And i dont want my puppy learning this behavior. But they are both very much "male" dogs and they try to compete for the alpha male position. There are like 5 people in my household so trying to train him is incredibly hard because they all dont want to bother with the training and that's why it doesn't work.
Suggestions???
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Replies
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If they fight over food, please feed them separately. Also I would separate them if you are not at home. I'm an Emergency Veterinary Technician, and I've seen this end tragically TOO many times.
I'm not a behaviorist, so I'll leave that to someone else. But I don't like treating preventable injuries like severe bite wounds. I also don't like having to euthanize either the aggressor or the victim because the injuries are too severe. It's heartbreaking. Just 2 weeks ago I assisted on a surgery on a pit bull who was having her THIRD bite wound repair. That's right, she'd been attacked 3 times before and the owners still left them alone together. This time, she was literally eaten. Her thighs were literally chewed and there were large chunks of muscle missing. As I work ER, they don't come back for wellness checks so I do not know how she fared this time.
Edit: I know my post comes across as preachy. And I'm not saying you are a bad owner or comparing you to the pit bull's owner. I just thought you should know.0 -
I have no training in animals, but I have had the pleasure of sharing my life with furry friends for the last forty years.
This will sound harsh and preachy, but if you don't take the time to train, no matter how many people in the house then you should not have the dogs. It's not fair to them. They will be happier and healthier with good boundaries and so will you. We currently have five and they all get along, but when there are issues they know if we step in they need to listen. Yes we have had fights when everyone was younger, but even those were rare. Relationship is key and you don't need to hit or use physical force. We use squirt bottles, hand clapping and a can with pennies or pebbles works well. (we also have six cats that share the house with the dogs, the horses have to stay in the barn, the house is too small :-) We feed them apart and although it's a little extra work, it works well for all. We have a pitbull, 3 healer mixes and a border collie/cattle dog mix. All assertive hard working dogs and by providing structure, timeouts and a lotta love they coexsist peacefully. Do they get enough excercise to keep them from getting bored or anxious? A physically fit dog is a happier dog too. Find a behavorist through your vet. You'll probably make up the cost by reducing vet bills in the future. Good luck, hope it works out.0 -
Well first, we dont hit our animals. I think my dad was trying to get my puppy off the other dog. Like i said, i used water to try and separate them.
Second, we do feed them separately but if food gets dropped or one of the dogs finds something not really edible they still fight over it like its food.
I have trained my puppy. He lays downs and sits and i got him to walk on a leash. He has even stopped biting me because i trained him not too. He knows i dont allow that. He still bites my dad however because my dad plays with him and his actions encourage Maxxie even though my dad thinks its not true. I have TRIED believe me to get my dad to work with me on this but he wont and thinks im arguing with him.
I am still going to try and train him.
Thank you both for you posts:)0 -
See, this is my point. I remember once a dog was killed by it's housemate over a potato that the owner had accidentally dropped. This situation is deadly serious and has already turned tragic for your older cocker spaniel as he sustained injuries the last time. I can only imagine being beaten up and having to hide behind or under something to get away. It can't be pleasant.Second, we do feed them separately but if food gets dropped or one of the dogs finds something not really edible they still fight over it like its food.0 -
OK, this is gonna sound harsher, and it's not my intention to be harsh, but it's my honest opinion. (also a previous dog owner; currently the owner of 4 very different cats with their own hierarchy issues -- which we, as a household, manage.)
Like StevLL said, if your household is unwilling to and if you're unable to redirect this energy, retrain, recondition, and restructure the hierarchy in your "pack", then ... find a new home for the puppy. I don't think it's fair to the older dog, not to mention it's just outright dangerous at this point (from the sounds of what his recent injuries are like).
We had similar issues with our oldest cat and our youngest cat when the youngest was first introduced. They've settled into their "territories" and have a grudging respect for each other now. The newest cat (2nd youngest) also had a rocky introduction that resulted in a trip to the vet for the oldest cat. Yes, we contemplated giving away the newest cat (he was a stray off the street that we took in). We carefully monitored interactions for several weeks, fed separately, pet the oldest cat first, etc. etc. etc. until they figured out neither was going to threaten each other. They now sleep together and share territories. Now we have issues with the #3 and #4 cat ... the biggest cat likes to chase the littlest around. We have squirt bottles around the house for when the chasing gets too "rambunctious". It's a neverending cycle to ensure peace in this household, but it has not escalated anymore beyond the usual occasional hissing spats, and we're okay with that. But still always vigilant. It's part of our responsibility as cat owners, and we undertake it joyfully for our furry companions.
Owning pets is a huge responsibility and it has to become a household responsibility, not just yours. You're all in it together. If the household can't understand it, then healthy change won't take place and someone WILL get seriously injured/killed (whether human or animal). Figure out if your household has the dedication to fix this. If not, then the puppy should go before anything more happens.
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OK, Apparently the pup is trying to be alpha, he wants control over the household., when it should be you who is in control. Aggression comes from pent up energy in their mind, and sometimes their body. Daily , CONTROLLED walks can really helps with this. Especially when you are walking both of the problem dogs together. How do you feed them? do you just throw the bowls down and let them eat? or do you make them back up and wait until you give them permission to eat? If the dogs already know basic commands they should be working for their food. do a short down-stay while you fill their bowls and them release them to eat. this puts you in a powerful position, because you are in control of something that they need to live. I have been training dogs for 5 years now, and my specialty is pit bulls, so i have dealt with this issue many times and if you want to solve it , EVERYONE needs to be on board, otherwise you are fighting a losing battle. So you need to take control of your dogs and your entire house hold, make the rules and then follow them. For the sake of your old dog, please exercise the young one as much as possible, constantly do obedience, even though he knows the commands he still needs refreshers here and there, and that will release mental energy. I know it is hard to get people to follow the training rules but you have to put your foot down!
By controlled walk I mean " the dog is walking in the heel position the entire time, you do sits and downs when you stop. he is not allowed to sniff or potty until you release him to"
I hope this helps.0 -
OK, Apparently the pup is trying to be alpha, he wants control over the household., when it should be you who is in control. Aggression comes from pent up energy in their mind, and sometimes their body. Daily , CONTROLLED walks can really helps with this. Especially when you are walking both of the problem dogs together. How do you feed them? do you just throw the bowls down and let them eat? or do you make them back up and wait until you give them permission to eat? If the dogs already know basic commands they should be working for their food. do a short down-stay while you fill their bowls and them release them to eat. this puts you in a powerful position, because you are in control of something that they need to live. I have been training dogs for 5 years now, and my specialty is pit bulls, so i have dealt with this issue many times and if you want to solve it , EVERYONE needs to be on board, otherwise you are fighting a losing battle. So you need to take control of your dogs and your entire house hold, make the rules and then follow them. For the sake of your old dog, please exercise the young one as much as possible, constantly do obedience, even though he knows the commands he still needs refreshers here and there, and that will release mental energy. I know it is hard to get people to follow the training rules but you have to put your foot down!
By controlled walk I mean " the dog is walking in the heel position the entire time, you do sits and downs when you stop. he is not allowed to sniff or potty until you release him to"
I hope this helps.0 -
OK, Apparently the pup is trying to be alpha, he wants control over the household., when it should be you who is in control. Aggression comes from pent up energy in their mind, and sometimes their body. Daily , CONTROLLED walks can really helps with this. Especially when you are walking both of the problem dogs together. How do you feed them? do you just throw the bowls down and let them eat? or do you make them back up and wait until you give them permission to eat? If the dogs already know basic commands they should be working for their food. do a short down-stay while you fill their bowls and them release them to eat. this puts you in a powerful position, because you are in control of something that they need to live. I have been training dogs for 5 years now, and my specialty is pit bulls, so i have dealt with this issue many times and if you want to solve it , EVERYONE needs to be on board, otherwise you are fighting a losing battle. So you need to take control of your dogs and your entire house hold, make the rules and then follow them. For the sake of your old dog, please exercise the young one as much as possible, constantly do obedience, even though he knows the commands he still needs refreshers here and there, and that will release mental energy. I know it is hard to get people to follow the training rules but you have to put your foot down!
By controlled walk I mean " the dog is walking in the heel position the entire time, you do sits and downs when you stop. he is not allowed to sniff or potty until you release him to"
I hope this helps.0 -
OK, Apparently the pup is trying to be alpha, he wants control over the household., when it should be you who is in control. Aggression comes from pent up energy in their mind, and sometimes their body. Daily , CONTROLLED walks can really helps with this. Especially when you are walking both of the problem dogs together. How do you feed them? do you just throw the bowls down and let them eat? or do you make them back up and wait until you give them permission to eat? If the dogs already know basic commands they should be working for their food. do a short down-stay while you fill their bowls and them release them to eat. this puts you in a powerful position, because you are in control of something that they need to live. I have been training dogs for 5 years now, and my specialty is pit bulls, so i have dealt with this issue many times and if you want to solve it , EVERYONE needs to be on board, otherwise you are fighting a losing battle. So you need to take control of your dogs and your entire house hold, make the rules and then follow them. For the sake of your old dog, please exercise the young one as much as possible, constantly do obedience, even though he knows the commands he still needs refreshers here and there, and that will release mental energy. I know it is hard to get people to follow the training rules but you have to put your foot down!
By controlled walk I mean " the dog is walking in the heel position the entire time, you do sits and downs when you stop. he is not allowed to sniff or potty until you release him to"
I hope this helps.0 -
i don't know why it posted so many times, my computer is crazy.0
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No idea why your computer went whacko, but good advice, kimclaws.
I agree that the first step NEEDS to be household commitment ... without it, the rest will fail. Kim's advice about walking/training/energy is also great. 0 -
But they are both very much "male" dogs and they try to compete for the alpha male position.
first a question- is everyone- including the 1 yo 'puppy' fixed? because if not you are fighting a battle that cannot be won and is dangerous to everyone in the entire house. there is only one solution to that.
if they are~ ignore the above, i just got a sense from that line that maybe they weren't. (and from the time frame you gave of when the real fights started- would have been right when the puppy reached sexual maturity...so i had to ask that first).
when fights have gotten so out of hand that injuries are happening- this is past your abilities to handle. you need a professional desperately. if that is not possible then re-homing the puppy is the only right and fair thing to do. your senior dog should not have his waning years ruined by a newcomer. sorry.
btw- water rarely breaks apart dogs that a really going at it~ it is better to grab the comforter off your bed and throw it over them and then you can separate them w/o getting bit yourselves.
just an aside for anyone else reading because they ave issues w/ dogs fighting~ if you have one dog (okay like a pittie) bite-locked onto another all you have to do to break the death bite is squirt dish soap down their throat, they HAVE TO gag, they have no control over that at all, and it is physically impossible to hold a bite while gagging. it is the safest, surest way. and its not as hard as it sounds- if a fight has gotten to death grip stage the thrashing around in a ball of limbs and teeth has stopped and they are still enough to shove the soap in the mouth of whichever one has the grip on. the worst that can happen is they let go of the grip to bite the dish soap bottle, but hey that works too, lol.0 -
It sounds like they are fighting for dominance. I would make certain that my presence as a pack leader was exerted. No way I could worry that my dogs would fight over a dropped cheerio. If the dogs feel that they both follow you as the pack leader, they won't have such fights.
I also second the above posters comments about walking walking walking. A tiered dog is a good dog! And I think they should defnitly be walked together to stregnthen the pack and pack leader dynamic. And defnitly feeding seperately but, i don't think that will solve the problem. The dogs need proper training.
Good luck! Its hard when our fluffy little buddies aren't happy.0 -
Hey everyone. I was away for a while and just got time to read these.
First i want to thank all of you for your honest replies. Thank you for taking the time to answer:)
We have not had any problems lately. Changed the treats to giving it to them separately and when i put food down i remove the puppy who tends to start the problems.
To answer a few questions.
kimclaws You asked how i feed them. We have trained the puppy to lay down and only grab his treat when we saw so. I never thought to do it with food so i will try that with him first. Since he is the biggest problem that i can fix at the moment. Great advice. Thank you.
Our dogs, since we have three are left outside. My step mother is allergic so that is another reason why they stay outside. She is also a clean freak, so again, dogs stay outdoors. We have a really big backyard. Even with all of the cars back there, they are always running back and forth chasing birds or cats or each other. So i dont want to give you all the impression that they are locked inside all day. But additional exercise is a must i completely agree.
Another issue was whether or not they were fixed. The girl dog, the rottie is not fixed because it was too expensive and doing it now would be too hard on her. But BOTH boy dogs are fixed. The older dog was fixed years ago though he still tries. And the puppy was fixed as soon as he got old enough and big enough that they allowed us to get him fixed. So yes they both are fixed.
It is also hard to walk them both together because the cocker spaniel will not let us touch him except in certain areas. He was abused as a puppy before we got him. So he does not wear a harness. He has to walk on a straight lease. Because of that i have to walk slower and walk less to prevent as much pulling as i can since walking on a leash obviously hurts animals when they pull. Since he is older i walk him less time than the puppy.0 -
I'm sure this may get me some judgement here but, have you tried putting the pulling doggie on a pinch collar ? And dogs live in teh right now so even tho you feel like he is sad or scarred from being abused, he is over it. Just so long as he has discipline and love now and is balanced, he isn't too concerned.
It must be hard having them fighting. I am glad its getting better!0 -
Another issue was whether or not they were fixed. The girl dog, the rottie is not fixed because it was too expensive and doing it now would be too hard on her.
and there is the problem.
it is harder on her to remain unfixed than it is to have the simple surgery. ending up at ER at 3 am one night because she has a pyo (pyometra: http://www.squidoo.com/pyometra ) that will cost thousands of dollars to correct (yep, emergency spay) and treat to keep her alive is far far more expensive and a matter of life and death.
a male dog can smell a female in heat from miles away- those hormones right in their face is going to drive the males nuts, fixed or not. behavior can and will be unpredictable from all.
i would suggest stopping by your local shelter and talking to staff there- they will know of a low or no cost option for getting her spayed. it is NOT too late, it is ALWAYS better to spay than not. rotties seem to be especailly prone to pyo's too- i've had to emergency spay dogs as old as 17 at ER and they did fine if not too far gone from a closed pyo rupture or the like.
read the link i gave you above, k?
i hope you will be able to find a way to get her spayed for her health and well being (and for peace in household).0
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