Taxing churches
atomiclauren
Posts: 689 Member
Thoughts? Came across these lately - please post more if you find 'em..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/cashstrapped-cities-look-_n_812400.html\
http://www.alternet.org/story/153448/how_we_all_pay_for_the_huge_tax_privileges_granted_to_religion_--_it's_time_to_tax_the_church/?page=entire
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/cashstrapped-cities-look-_n_812400.html\
http://www.alternet.org/story/153448/how_we_all_pay_for_the_huge_tax_privileges_granted_to_religion_--_it's_time_to_tax_the_church/?page=entire
0
Replies
-
Don't need to read the links to know where I stand.
In my eyes government and religion are to be kept as separate as possible.
I'd like to tax churches. Really I would. Taxes are the price we pay to enjoy the standard of living we have in this country. If you use roads, call police and enjoy not being invaded you owe some money in taxes. Churches enjoy these privileges the same as individuals and businesses. Only difference being churches pay no taxes.
Would it be a hardship for churches? Sure some. But there are a whole lot of churches with fancy decorations, stained glass windows, gold everywhere and now some even have multi-million dollar media centers. Did Pat Robertson ever get that amusement park he was trying for?
I will support the NON-taxation of churches under the following guideline. That they start holding up their end of the bargain. A large part of the reason they aren't taxed is so that they have no influence in government. But it just isn't working that way. More and more churches want to have their voice heard in government affairs. Ok, well you're going to have to pay the cover charge.
If churches can stick to the pulpit and keep out of government affairs they can continue being a non-taxed entity. I will make that concession.0 -
Keep the churches out of government. They pay no taxes and reap no benefits.0
-
I am a ministry candidate in the Methodist Church. We are a local church with a congregation of about 60 people. On any given Sunday we might have 25-40 of those members in attendance. Just wanted to say where I came from before I voiced my opinion.
Two things - Pat Robertson and the like are NOT what the church and Christianity represents. At all. Trust me. That guy and all the people like him give Christians a bad reputation. The Bible clearly states that there will be TONS of these kinds of "false prophets" to lead people astray. This guy exemplifies it.
Secondly, the taxation of churches would not only all but destroy the ability for small town churches to function, but eliminate the good works that are done at this level. And believe me, small churches do a lot of good in these small communities. Stripping religious organizations of their tax exempt status is a direct violation of the U.S. Constitution. That document is the only thing we have as human beings that secure our rights and liberties.
Do some leaders of the church take advantage of this? Yep, some do. (Corruption can be found ANYWHERE!) Do other churches depend on their tax exempt status for survival? Yep, most do. But you can't punish everybody for something that a few people do.0 -
As the wife of a man who is studying to be ordaned a deacon in the Catholic Church (in a very small diocese where most of our area is rural) I 100% agree with you statement. Usually pastors and religious leaders who make the news regarding that close line between politics and religion are from metropolitan areas. And even that is such a small percentage of all religious leaders in the country (not even close to 1/4 of 1% would be my guess). Yes, most religious leaders are not Rev. Wright, Pat Robertson, Fr. Phleger, etc. and do not preach as they do.I am a ministry candidate in the Methodist Church. We are a local church with a congregation of about 60 people. On any given Sunday we might have 25-40 of those members in attendance. Just wanted to say where I came from before I voiced my opinion.
Two things - Pat Robertson and the like are NOT what the church and Christianity represents. At all. Trust me. That guy and all the people like him give Christians a bad reputation. The Bible clearly states that there will be TONS of these kinds of "false prophets" to lead people astray. This guy exemplifies it.
Secondly, the taxation of churches would not only all but destroy the ability for small town churches to function, but eliminate the good works that are done at this level. And believe me, small churches do a lot of good in these small communities. Stripping religious organizations of their tax exempt status is a direct violation of the U.S. Constitution. That document is the only thing we have as human beings that secure our rights and liberties.
Do some leaders of the church take advantage of this? Yep, some do. (Corruption can be found ANYWHERE!) Do other churches depend on their tax exempt status for survival? Yep, most do. But you can't punish everybody for something that a few people do.0 -
It would probably destroy my big city church as well. It sits on a very nice piece of land - the property tax alone would put them under I am sure of it. It is a plain church, nothing fancy, no stained glass or ornate decor - it just happens to be on prime property. Because of the location they are able to feed the city homeless every week and are very involved in the community and charity. We see the financials posted in every bulletin and are just getting by. I would hate to see them taxed and go under.
I agree with staying out of government.0 -
I think that they should hold the ones who preach politics accountable. Outside of that I would be fine with no taxation.0
-
I am a ministry candidate in the Methodist Church. We are a local church with a congregation of about 60 people. On any given Sunday we might have 25-40 of those members in attendance. Just wanted to say where I came from before I voiced my opinion.
Two things - Pat Robertson and the like are NOT what the church and Christianity represents. At all. Trust me. That guy and all the people like him give Christians a bad reputation. The Bible clearly states that there will be TONS of these kinds of "false prophets" to lead people astray. This guy exemplifies it.
Secondly, the taxation of churches would not only all but destroy the ability for small town churches to function, but eliminate the good works that are done at this level. And believe me, small churches do a lot of good in these small communities. Stripping religious organizations of their tax exempt status is a direct violation of the U.S. Constitution. That document is the only thing we have as human beings that secure our rights and liberties.
Do some leaders of the church take advantage of this? Yep, some do. (Corruption can be found ANYWHERE!) Do other churches depend on their tax exempt status for survival? Yep, most do. But you can't punish everybody for something that a few people do.
I don't listen to anyone who says "Oh THEY'RE not REAL Christians!" I don't care if you're talking about Pat Robertson or the Westboro Baptists. "If every Christian someone else said wasn't a Christian dissappeared, there would be no more Christians."
There's another church out there right now pointing to your ministry and saying it's a pack of lies and false prophets.0 -
I am a ministry candidate in the Methodist Church. We are a local church with a congregation of about 60 people. On any given Sunday we might have 25-40 of those members in attendance. Just wanted to say where I came from before I voiced my opinion.
Two things - Pat Robertson and the like are NOT what the church and Christianity represents. At all. Trust me. That guy and all the people like him give Christians a bad reputation. The Bible clearly states that there will be TONS of these kinds of "false prophets" to lead people astray. This guy exemplifies it.
Secondly, the taxation of churches would not only all but destroy the ability for small town churches to function, but eliminate the good works that are done at this level. And believe me, small churches do a lot of good in these small communities. Stripping religious organizations of their tax exempt status is a direct violation of the U.S. Constitution. That document is the only thing we have as human beings that secure our rights and liberties.
Do some leaders of the church take advantage of this? Yep, some do. (Corruption can be found ANYWHERE!) Do other churches depend on their tax exempt status for survival? Yep, most do. But you can't punish everybody for something that a few people do.
I don't listen to anyone who says "Oh THEY'RE not REAL Christians!" I don't care if you're talking about Pat Robertson or the Westboro Baptists. "If every Christian someone else said wasn't a Christian dissappeared, there would be no more Christians."
There's another church out there right now pointing to your ministry and saying it's a pack of lies and false prophets.
yep, I went to one of those crazy far right churches at one point. They say the same exact thing about other churches.
For me, if someone says they're a Christian I don't have much reason to doubt them.0 -
No. Freedom of religion and not taxing our churches is an american tradition. It would be impossible to assess which churches were politically active vs. those who weren't, therefore I feel the tax would be a punishment for all churches just to get at some of the more obnoxious ones. If americans want religion out of their politics, they need to punish politicians who stump using and abusing religion for votes by not voting for them. Besides, religion is nothing more than an organized belief system. I do not see where we could draw the line since you would be taxing people organized to run a church, but not the wiccans coven (or whatever they call it), agnostics and atheists. We all in a sense wield political power, I know as an atheist I find it hard to ever vote for a Holy Roller.0
-
"If every Christian someone else said wasn't a Christian dissappeared, there would be no more Christians."
This is my Quote of the Day!!!!!0 -
While I was in college in the midwest, where I also happened to grow up, I read an editorial in the school newspaper about a controversial proposition that was coming in an election. The author quite literally said, "I'm voting the way my pastor tells me to."
1. People who refuse to think for themselves shouldn't be allowed to vote, but that's a different topic,
and
2. Why the hell (don't bother pardoning the pun) is your pastor telling you how to vote?
Yes, tax them.
Look at the Mormon church's involvement with prop 8 in CA.0 -
I will paraphrase what Bill Maher said once in his New Rules: If the church doesn't want to pay taxes, then it can't expect the city's fire department to help them put out any of their fires.0
-
Churches are not allowed to endorse candidates. There is nothing in the law that prohibits them from discussing morality and laws that go against their teachings. And if you do take away their tax exemption you WILL be hurting the poor since most of the donations will have to go toward paying taxes than helping those in need.While I was in college in the midwest, where I also happened to grow up, I read an editorial in the school newspaper about a controversial proposition that was coming in an election. The author quite literally said, "I'm voting the way my pastor tells me to."
1. People who refuse to think for themselves shouldn't be allowed to vote, but that's a different topic,
and
2. Why the hell (don't bother pardoning the pun) is your pastor telling you how to vote?
Yes, tax them.
Look at the Mormon church's involvement with prop 8 in CA.0 -
Bill Maher, the epitomy of someone who has a lot more anger than love in his heart. Why he's so damaged, I don't know. But if his logic were applied I'm sure he'd be shocked at how many fire departments would still help a religious place of worship in the case of a fire.I will paraphrase what Bill Maher said once in his New Rules: If the church doesn't want to pay taxes, then it can't expect the city's fire department to help them put out any of their fires.0 -
]Churches are not allowed to endorse candidates. There is nothing in the law that prohibits them from discussing morality and laws that go against their teachings. And if you do take away their tax exemption you WILL be hurting the poor since most of the donations will have to go toward paying taxes than helping those in need.
The rights of others, I use rights here liberally as marriage is an interpreted right (by scotus) and not technically a constitutional right as such, trump religious teachings. Sorry.
Useful contributions of the church don't mitigate abuses of their power. We don't need churches to be charitable.0 -
Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. And you really think our society (and government) does not need the charities provided by religious institutions? Seriously, you really have no idea the depth of how these institutions help those in need.]Churches are not allowed to endorse candidates. There is nothing in the law that prohibits them from discussing morality and laws that go against their teachings. And if you do take away their tax exemption you WILL be hurting the poor since most of the donations will have to go toward paying taxes than helping those in need.
The rights of others, I use rights here liberally as marriage is an interpreted right (by scotus) and not technically a constitutional right as such, trump religious teachings. Sorry.
Useful contributions of the church don't mitigate abuses of their power. We don't need churches to be charitable.0 -
The rights of others, I use rights here liberally as marriage is an interpreted right (by scotus) and not technically a constitutional right as such, trump religious teachings. Sorry.
Useful contributions of the church don't mitigate abuses of their power. We don't need churches to be charitable.
[/quote]Freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. And you really think our society (and government) does not need the charities provided by religious institutions? Seriously, you really have no idea the depth of how these institutions help those in need.
Freedom OF religions *is* freedom FROM religion. The fact that you think otherwise is borderline offensive. I agree there's a need for charities. I don't agree that there's a need for Church's to fill that role. Do they currently fill a role? Sure. Do they need to be the ones to do it? There's no particular reason for it to be that way.
No one *needs* a church for charitable reasons.0 -
Freedom OF religions *is* freedom FROM religion.
LoL no it isn't!!! you have no right to never be exposed to religion. You do have a choice though. Stay locked up in your spider hole.
And the fact that you would say that is out right offensive. Every person in the US has the right to practice their religion as they see fit and they also have the right to speak to others about it. They also have a right, and in christian religions, a duty to God to help those in need and support the local community as an outreach. You Do not have a right to never hear about someone else s religion
You have zero right to Isolate others because you dont want to be exposed to religion. Get Real0 -
Churches shouldn't be supporting a candidate for any office. However; Churches should be preaching directly about the immoral things in today's culture. There is nothing new under the sun. Its all be done before. Its the Pastors job to focus his preaching so that it is in direct correlation to things that his congregation can relate to in their everyday life. IF preaching about something come in direct opposition with a political or governmental position He has no obligation to adjust his preaching to avoid what is going on in the world in fact he should use those worldly events to preach on.
If you think you can tax churches all you will find happening is that churches will disband and turn into smaller groups meeting in homes and when that happens the churches will only begin to grow and get stronger.0 -
Freedom OF religions *is* freedom FROM religion.
LoL no it isn't!!! you have no right to never be exposed to religion. You do have a choice though. Stay locked up in your spider hole.
And the fact that you would say that is out right offensive. Every person in the US has the right to practice their religion as they see fit and they also have the right to speak to others about it. They also have a right, and in christian religions, a duty to God to help those in need and support the local community as an outreach. You Do not have a right to never hear about someone else s religion
You have zero right to Isolate others because you dont want to be exposed to religion. Get Real
Yay, straw man arguments are fun! In no way did I mention isolating others. Actually yes, I do have a right to never be exposed to religion. Think of it is a null set. You can have a set of religious beliefs, one happens to be empty and the other happens to have something in it. Having no religion *is* taking a stance on religion, and I have a right to not have anyone else's religion forced on me.
You have no particular right to speak *to me* about anything. You have a right to freedom of speech. You have no particular right to be listened to by me or anyone else. Anyone's duties to a Christian God are irrelevant. Your call to witness and covert are only meant to be permitted, not aided by the law.If you think you can tax churches all you will find happening is that churches will disband and turn into smaller groups meeting in homes and when that happens the churches will only begin to grow and get stronger.
So? And really, no church is going to do that. And as far as pastors preaching about morality goes in a legal/governmental context, you seem to feel as if there's a greater connection to law and morality as there is or should be. QED if we look at your apparent views on freedom of religion.0 -
The First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
If the first amendment was intended to just allow the freedom to worship, then there would not have been a clause entered in it pertaining to religion because the freedom to gather and worship would fall under the clause for people to peaceably assemble. But it doesn't it protects the rights of religion to NOT have the government intervene. Parts of the new healthcare law are violating this and it will be interesting to see if and how the scotus will rull on it (in case you are wondering what part, it's the part requiring religious institutionsto go against their consciences and cover contraception and sterilization in their health insurance plans or be penalized monetarily for not doing so). But i would recommend you talk to constitutional experts about what exactly the First Amendment means.0 -
It's not "Churches shouldn't be supporting a candidate for office." It's churches CANNOT support a candidate for office. They also cannot devote a substantial part of their activities to attempting to influence legislation. The Mormon churches against CA's prop 8 risked their tax exempt status. I'm also rather stunned that the Westboro idiots have managed to keep their tax exempt status as well.Churches shouldn't be supporting a candidate for any office. However; Churches should be preaching directly about the immoral things in today's culture. There is nothing new under the sun. Its all be done before. Its the Pastors job to focus his preaching so that it is in direct correlation to things that his congregation can relate to in their everyday life. IF preaching about something come in direct opposition with a political or governmental position He has no obligation to adjust his preaching to avoid what is going on in the world in fact he should use those worldly events to preach on.
If you think you can tax churches all you will find happening is that churches will disband and turn into smaller groups meeting in homes and when that happens the churches will only begin to grow and get stronger.0 -
I couldnt help but wonder what would happen to my little towns church run food bank.Since its the only thing serving people in my community. Im pretty on the fence about this. I dont like how some mega churches are rakeing in the money,and lining their pockets with it. But I would hate to see what would happen to the little churchs since they are the ones usually doing for others.0
-
I stand firmly in my belief that churches and other religious institutions should not be taxed. If there are large profits being made, as in the case of the mega-churches and the like, then the rules are different.
In practice, I don't know how to differentiate between the two, though. Maybe once a congregation reaches a certain critical mass it becomes a taxable entity? I don't know. But that's complicating the issue. Tax the churches? No.
*My background - I don't go to church. I don't have a house of worship or practice for my beliefs. So my opinion isn't biased by my own needs.0 -
Freedom OF religions *is* freedom FROM religion.
LoL no it isn't!!! you have no right to never be exposed to religion. You do have a choice though. Stay locked up in your spider hole.
And the fact that you would say that is out right offensive. Every person in the US has the right to practice their religion as they see fit and they also have the right to speak to others about it. They also have a right, and in christian religions, a duty to God to help those in need and support the local community as an outreach. You Do not have a right to never hear about someone else s religion
You have zero right to Isolate others because you dont want to be exposed to religion. Get Real
Yay, straw man arguments are fun! In no way did I mention isolating others. Actually yes, I do have a right to never be exposed to religion. Think of it is a null set. You can have a set of religious beliefs, one happens to be empty and the other happens to have something in it. Having no religion *is* taking a stance on religion, and I have a right to not have anyone else's religion forced on me.
You have no particular right to speak *to me* about anything. You have a right to freedom of speech. You have no particular right to be listened to by me or anyone else. Anyone's duties to a Christian God are irrelevant. Your call to witness and covert are only meant to be permitted, not aided by the law.
Oh look he took a logics class in high school *claps*
No you dont have a right to, never be exposed. Disagreeing doesn't make the statement untrue. No one is forcing it on you. If you were captured and tied up and forced to listen that's one thing. But no one can stop me from approaching you on the street and starting a conversation and the only thing you can do is walk away. OMG you were exposed start a SCOTUS case Quick!!! You have zero right to never be exposed. I have a right to speak to you about anything I want and in turn you have a right to walk away as soon as I open my mouth. But know you dont have a right to never be exposed. If I walk up to you and say, "Jesus Loves you." There is nothing you can do; NOTHING. I have the right to say that. If I consistently Harass you that's harassment not exposure to religion. ...and actually your attempt to prohibit anyone from speaking about a religion in public so you dont have to be exposed to it IS in fact Isolating them. You dont want to be exposed isolate yourself.If you think you can tax churches all you will find happening is that churches will disband and turn into smaller groups meeting in homes and when that happens the churches will only begin to grow and get stronger.
So? And really, no church is going to do that. And as far as pastors preaching about morality goes in a legal/governmental context, you seem to feel as if there's a greater connection to law and morality as there is or should be. QED if we look at your apparent views on freedom of religion.
[/quote]
You cant tax a church that doesn't exist and yet the things taking place will continue to take place and in fact increase. Taxing the church will break them up and make the Church (the people) more prolific and stronger. Why wouldn't they do that? Thats the way the early church started and that is the way the church functions in nations that restrict religion. Privately held meetings in peoples homes. More to the point. Small churches will do it immediately cause they cant afford otherwise. Large churches are more in it for the profit but that is why they will disband because its less profitable.
Nearly all laws on the books legislate morality. That's the point...Here is this law its here to make you act appropriately according to society. Weather its my morality or your morality that's the question of whose morality is getting legislated. All laws are based on someones view of what is moral and right.0 -
It's not "Churches shouldn't be supporting a candidate for office." It's churches CANNOT support a candidate for office. They also cannot devote a substantial part of their activities to attempting to influence legislation. The Mormon churches against CA's prop 8 risked their tax exempt status. I'm also rather stunned that the Westboro idiots have managed to keep their tax exempt status as well.Churches shouldn't be supporting a candidate for any office. However; Churches should be preaching directly about the immoral things in today's culture. There is nothing new under the sun. Its all be done before. Its the Pastors job to focus his preaching so that it is in direct correlation to things that his congregation can relate to in their everyday life. IF preaching about something come in direct opposition with a political or governmental position He has no obligation to adjust his preaching to avoid what is going on in the world in fact he should use those worldly events to preach on.
If you think you can tax churches all you will find happening is that churches will disband and turn into smaller groups meeting in homes and when that happens the churches will only begin to grow and get stronger.
Actually they can; but then they will lose their 501c3 status. Some churches have thought about doing that just so they can. See The government is restricted from pushing religion but churches aren't restricted from pushing anything.0 -
Oh look he took a logics class in high school *claps*
No you dont have a right to, never be exposed. Disagreeing doesn't make the statement untrue. No one is forcing it on you. If you were captured and tied up and forced to listen that's one thing. But no one can stop me from approaching you on the street and starting a conversation and the only thing you can do is walk away. OMG you were exposed start a SCOTUS case Quick!!! You have zero right to never be exposed. I have a right to speak to you about anything I want and in turn you have a right to walk away as soon as I open my mouth. But know you dont have a right to never be exposed. If I walk up to you and say, "Jesus Loves you." There is nothing you can do; NOTHING. I have the right to say that. If I consistently Harass you that's harassment not exposure to religion. ...and actually your attempt to prohibit anyone from speaking about a religion in public so you dont have to be exposed to it IS in fact Isolating them. You dont want to be exposed isolate yourself.
You're exactly right. You can go up to people and preach at them against their will.
Just as I have the right to stand outside your church and let all the nice people leaving know they've just wasted their time listening to fairy tales. Jesus never existed and if he did was probably a homosexual. The church you frequent exists mostly to collect money from silly people scared of dying. So they try to bribe their way into a paradise that was clearly dreamed up by someone not very bright.
I have that right. Nothing could stop me. I could sit outside any church I want with signs and the whole deal. Just like street corner preachers/prosthelityzers/nut jobs do.
I don't. Because it's horribly rude. I would never want to do that.
I wish religious people could show the same amount of respect.0 -
Freedom OF religions *is* freedom FROM religion.
LoL no it isn't!!! you have no right to never be exposed to religion. You do have a choice though. Stay locked up in your spider hole.
And the fact that you would say that is out right offensive. Every person in the US has the right to practice their religion as they see fit and they also have the right to speak to others about it. They also have a right, and in christian religions, a duty to God to help those in need and support the local community as an outreach. You Do not have a right to never hear about someone else s religion
You have zero right to Isolate others because you dont want to be exposed to religion. Get Real
Yay, straw man arguments are fun! In no way did I mention isolating others. Actually yes, I do have a right to never be exposed to religion. Think of it is a null set. You can have a set of religious beliefs, one happens to be empty and the other happens to have something in it. Having no religion *is* taking a stance on religion, and I have a right to not have anyone else's religion forced on me.
You have no particular right to speak *to me* about anything. You have a right to freedom of speech. You have no particular right to be listened to by me or anyone else. Anyone's duties to a Christian God are irrelevant. Your call to witness and covert are only meant to be permitted, not aided by the law.
Oh look he took a logics class in high school *claps*
No you dont have a right to, never be exposed. Disagreeing doesn't make the statement untrue. No one is forcing it on you. If you were captured and tied up and forced to listen that's one thing. But no one can stop me from approaching you on the street and starting a conversation and the only thing you can do is walk away. OMG you were exposed start a SCOTUS case Quick!!! You have zero right to never be exposed. I have a right to speak to you about anything I want and in turn you have a right to walk away as soon as I open my mouth. But know you dont have a right to never be exposed. If I walk up to you and say, "Jesus Loves you." There is nothing you can do; NOTHING. I have the right to say that. If I consistently Harass you that's harassment not exposure to religion. ...and actually your attempt to prohibit anyone from speaking about a religion in public so you dont have to be exposed to it IS in fact Isolating them. You dont want to be exposed isolate yourself.If you think you can tax churches all you will find happening is that churches will disband and turn into smaller groups meeting in homes and when that happens the churches will only begin to grow and get stronger.
So? And really, no church is going to do that. And as far as pastors preaching about morality goes in a legal/governmental context, you seem to feel as if there's a greater connection to law and morality as there is or should be. QED if we look at your apparent views on freedom of religion.
You cant tax a church that doesn't exist and yet the things taking place will continue to take place and in fact increase. Taxing the church will break them up and make the Church (the people) more prolific and stronger. Why wouldn't they do that? Thats the way the early church started and that is the way the church functions in nations that restrict religion. Privately held meetings in peoples homes. More to the point. Small churches will do it immediately cause they cant afford otherwise. Large churches are more in it for the profit but that is why they will disband because its less profitable.
Nearly all laws on the books legislate morality. That's the point...Here is this law its here to make you act appropriately according to society. Weather its my morality or your morality that's the question of whose morality is getting legislated. All laws are based on someones view of what is moral and right.
[/quote]
You only have the right to say something at me in public, without government interference. That's it. This isn't just about free speech regardless. Legislating morality (see prop 8) does, in fact, force religion on the masses for no justifiable reason. Feel free to read up secular humanism if you need more hints on how to be moral without being religious.
And your random assertions about what churches would do while being taxed are baseless, if for no other reason than we don't live in the past. The argument "Why wouldn't they do that?" doesn't exactly hold up. For instance, they might not do as you suggest because they don't feel that they need to. That's why. Thanks for the clap on logic class. Technically, it was freshman English, though. Perhaps you should go back to HS yourself.
My ability to wear noise cancelling head phones while religious zealots, falsely claiming to be Christians, blather on about Jesus's love without actually practicing it equates to me having the right to never be exposed to religion.
Be bitter if you like. It doesn't really matter. Since you seem to be fond of mocking people, try this out. Religious conservatives are losing ground, and I think I'll just sit back and continue to enjoy the show.0 -
Oh look he took a logics class in high school *claps*
No you dont have a right to, never be exposed. Disagreeing doesn't make the statement untrue. No one is forcing it on you. If you were captured and tied up and forced to listen that's one thing. But no one can stop me from approaching you on the street and starting a conversation and the only thing you can do is walk away. OMG you were exposed start a SCOTUS case Quick!!! You have zero right to never be exposed. I have a right to speak to you about anything I want and in turn you have a right to walk away as soon as I open my mouth. But know you dont have a right to never be exposed. If I walk up to you and say, "Jesus Loves you." There is nothing you can do; NOTHING. I have the right to say that. If I consistently Harass you that's harassment not exposure to religion. ...and actually your attempt to prohibit anyone from speaking about a religion in public so you dont have to be exposed to it IS in fact Isolating them. You dont want to be exposed isolate yourself.
You're exactly right. You can go up to people and preach at them against their will.
Just as I have the right to stand outside your church and let all the nice people leaving know they've just wasted their time listening to fairy tales. Jesus never existed and if he did was probably a homosexual. The church you frequent exists mostly to collect money from silly people scared of dying. So they try to bribe their way into a paradise that was clearly dreamed up by someone not very bright.
I have that right. Nothing could stop me. I could sit outside any church I want with signs and the whole deal. Just like street corner preachers/prosthelityzers/nut jobs do.
I don't. Because it's horribly rude. I would never want to do that.
I wish religious people could show the same amount of respect.
We feel the same way about the ever so open, tolerant, and free thinking liberals and atheists. "We are accepting and supportive of everyone"... lies. "Oh dont make fun of the Islam that's a sacred religion"....But its OK to piss on a nativity scene and call it art. "The Koran is sacred"....but burn this bible. If Christians started chopping heads when people ran their mouths about Christianity they might get the respect Islam does.
Did I strike a nerve your response is so vile and filled with hate. Not very tolerant. I've seen you hold yourself up on so many other topics standing up for others beliefs and choices unless its Christianity then its a different story. You are no different. Just like the WestBoro Church filled with hate over someone's choices, how strange.
You do have that right to make belittling and derogatory statements. I didn't call the poster I was responding to ignorant but your inference that its a fairy tale and that we are silly suggests that all Christians are ignorant morons. So Im guessing since we have stooped to name calling that's your way of debating. you have nothing valid to offer so lets just make up lies and call names.
You dont know me or the church I frequent and you couldn't be further from the truth. The church I was a member of 2 years ago had about 15 total families in attendance. On a Sunday morning there would be maybe 40-50 people. I was actively involved in the administration. I know exactly how much money came in and where it went. I know exactly how much our pastor was making per week. I know how much money and time was spent giving to others. This Church, I'm sure it was solely there to rake in the cash.
Id love for you to come and protest my current church I'm sure you would see a response that you weren't quite expecting. The service would probably be halted so that we could go out and talk with you.
No one in my church is required to give money. Money isn't a requirement for getting into heaven. I could go to my church for the rest of my life and never give a dime. Id still go to heaven. It wouldn't be right of me to do that, but I could.
There is nothing rude about talking with people about things you believe in. I dont prohibit you from doing it and I dont even frown on it. Come protest! Its your right. I think its WestBoro Baptists right to do what they do....They are in extremely poor taste and its disgusting the reasoning they do it. But they have that right.
But if I stop you on the street and ask you if you have a few minutes to answer some questions and you say yes and I talk to you about Christianity and your eternity how is that rude of me? If you dont want to talk walk away. That's not rude of me that's ignorant of you for not knowing when you dont want to listen anymore. The same is true of politics. If I dont want to listen to your bleeding heart liberal drivel I leave the thread or I debate. I dont call my Lawyer and say....HE MADE ME LISTEN TO HIS LIES!!!
If you dont like whats on TV Brett turn the channel dont cry about it to your neighbor.
If you dont like the way the US constitution works Ill bet another country would love to have you.0 -
I couldnt help but wonder what would happen to my little towns church run food bank.Since its the only thing serving people in my community. Im pretty on the fence about this. I dont like how some mega churches are rakeing in the money,and lining their pockets with it. But I would hate to see what would happen to the little churchs since they are the ones usually doing for others.
This!
There are a couple of smaller churches in my area that are running a soup kitchen a few times a week. When I drive by the days they're running the soup kitchen the line is quite long. Unemployment in my area is right now 11% (that doesn't include the long-term unemployed or underemployed).
The small church in my hometown helped me when our home burned down (and my father passed) - they helped with a variety of things: funeral arrangments, clothes, meals, etc... I sure needed their assistance at that time. I had been 18 for about a week and was pretty much homeless, no money, no nada.
I don't know how it would work to tax churches w/out impacting the smaller churches the most. I think it's the smaller churches that make the greatest (positive) impact especially in those smaller, more rural communities.
For some folks it may be the only place available to get help, there may not be a Red Cross, homeless shelter, etc... in their area. There wasn't anything like that in the town I grew up....0
This discussion has been closed.