Eating for future you method
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heybales
Posts: 18,842 Member
This started as a Message Boards Topic, and several comments to start a group for ones to post fears, success, concerns.
Lot of questions and comments there.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/471769-an-easier-way-to-setup-goal-calories-eating-for-who-you-wi
This started from researching back over my time racing when I needed to lose a 10 lb winter gain, and later in life losing 42 lbs in 4 months. In looking over my diary back then, I noticed I had none of the problems commonly brought up on the boards, losing the final 5, or getting stalled, while exercising massive amounts, and eating at a steady calorie level. I observed that I accomplished back then what I've learned through reading research in later years, and wanted to figure out a way to incorporate it into MFP's tools, though it ends up not totally, but mostly, using their tools.
This is long because of extra explanation, the actual method is simple and spreadsheet is available, but please read and appreciate. This can get you over the dreaded plateau effect too.
Why not just tell MFP the weight you want to end up at, select the activity level you are really at, select weight loss goal of maintenance, and just eat at the recommended, and don't enter exercise calories?
You would be eating at the level for the person you want to be. Isn't that what you will do eventually?
Problem, selecting that activity level. Only 4 levels, which one is right? Need a better way to estimate correctly, because the math for deficit always starts with what that number is. Also called Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE).
Problem, there would be no tracking of current weight, and the encouragement from that progress.
Problem, the actual gap in calories between current and future you may not be that big, must maximize the deficit.
Can you manually adjust the goal calories to accomplish the same thing?
You bet.
Couple of interesting points, in case not known.
BMR, why so important to not be eating below it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate
"energy in this state is sufficient only for the functioning of the vital organs, the heart, lungs, nervous system, kidneys, liver, intestine, sex organs, muscles, and skin."
If you constantly provide less than BMR in net calories, your body can NOT get this from itself, it will eventually slow it down to require less.
And considering a healthy BMR probably burns more calories than your exercise, perhaps your exercise and normal daily activity, do you really want it slower? If you lower your BMR by 200 calories below what it could be burning, what % of your daily exercise is 200 calories, 40-50%? Plus, with slower metabolism, all your actual calorie burning for daily and exercise activities is less too.
The Harris and Mifflin calculations (gender, age, weight, height) for BMR are pretty accurate for those already in the healthy average range - meaning when you get to goal weight. When you are outside of that healthy weight, it loses accuracy.
The Katch calculation (weight, bodyfat %) for BMR is more accurate during all times, and doesn't need exact BF% to be within 50 calories of BMR. But it also was based on study of people already within healthy range. Underestimates when more fat for metabolism to support.
So the MFP Mifflin BMR calc is probably as accurate as you need it - when you are at your goal weight. But probably not right now.
The MFP (and others) activity level selection is 4 broad categories which can make it difficult to get right.
But using sedentary and entering all exercise calories could be very off too.
Having a big amount of calories on some days to make up is difficult to eat.
So here is a much easier method. Basic steps. Homework mainly on step 2.
1. Calculate your BMR for the weight you want to be.
2. Calculate your current activity level with better accuracy and include exercise in that estimate.
3. Arrive at TDEE calories for the person you will be eating as eventually.
4. Set MFP Net Calories Consumed Goal amount.
5. Don't log exercise calories, just the activity and time for tracking that goal, but 1 calorie.
Spreadsheets for doing the above steps. Post below on improvements to manual method. Sample data included.
Excel - http://home.everestkc.net/mbales/
Google (stay in yellow fields or might delete a formula) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amt7QBR9-c6MdGZlcmNCNmhJWFhtUGl0ZEk1RFd1c0E
To understand what is being done, please keep reading before using spreadsheet.
1. Use this site for calculating BMR for your goal weight.
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html
Use the gender, age, height, and goal weight.
2. Enter in your normal sleep and TV time, normal desk job, normal walking, normal weight lifting, normal intense exercise time, avg hours per day. This method WILL underestimate the calories you exercise. Do not underestimate yourself. Use walking speeds referenced as comparison.
Easiest to add up your normal hours for the whole week of varies levels (pay attention to the description), and then divide by 7.
ie - 1 hr cardio x 5 days = 5 hrs weekly / 7 = 0.7 hrs daily avg to enter under Heavy.
Please see topic on How to use the activity calculator for example.
3. That is the Total calories you would probably be eating as maintenance at your goal weight doing that level of activity on avg each day. I say probably, the goal is you'll have so much extra muscle, it'll be higher.
4. Now in MFP, use the Tools - BMR Calculator to estimate your current BMR, note this figure.
Now, Home - Settings - Update diet/fitness profile.
Confirm Current and Goal weight and other body stats are correct.
Set Normal daily activities to Very Active or Active, depending on what you saw from activity calculator. This has no bearing on setting goals now, only the encouragement you receive when the food diary is Completed, and you receive "in 5 weeks you'll weigh...".
Enter your planned exercise goals, again, no bearing on any math.
Change What is your goal? to Maintain current weight. This also has no bearing on the math, as you will manually set the goal.
My Home - Goals - Change Goals - Custom - Continue - change Net Calories Consumed to that Total Calories maintenance from the ExRx site.
Change Calories Burned / Week to 0, since you will no longer log exercise calories, and click Change Goals.
The Profile activity level and weight loss goal no longer matter, because MFP is looking at non-exercise calories, you just set the goal to include those, so math will be totally off.
5. Now when you log Exercise, just enter activity and time for tracking if desired, but only 1 calorie burned. Put in the Diary notes if really desired to know calories. Might be good for spot checks. I record exercise calories and subtract that from eaten calories for Net calories for that day. Allows for easy confirmation using MFP Reports and view a weeks Diary Notes.
Spreadsheets for doing the above steps. Post below on improvements to manual method. Sample data included.
Excel - http://home.everestkc.net/mbales/
Google (stay in yellow fields or might delete a formula) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amt7QBR9-c6MdGZlcmNCNmhJWFhtUGl0ZEk1RFd1c0E
You may want to review your Exercise Diary a month down the road to confirm the hours spent match the estimate you gave for activity level, and if it should be updated up or down.
You may also want to record in your Food Diary Notes, the daily times for each level you entered in the ExRx calculator.
When you Check-in for your weight, you can create new measurement for current BMR that MFP told you. Be careful using that MFP BMR calculator again, it seems to reset everything. Maybe it won't for you, very annoying when testing these settings.
And now your Food Diary Daily Goal Calories will always reflect the same number, no credits for exercise, no big makeups to eat, ect. If you know a big dinner is Sat night, you can always cut back 200 on Fri, 200 on Sun, and balance on Mon for instance. Or in place of that, add 15 min to workouts that week. Just keeping in balance for a week at a time.
But normal fluctuations in missing a workout, or adding in a extra one, or extra time, don't have to be worried about beyond learning how to skip or add a snack, exactly like you'll have to learn to do when this is your maintenance lifestyle.
Only if the routine is changing, schools out, added a spin class, added 30 min 3 days a week, ect. Then recalc to get it right.
Otherwise, set it and forget it.
And you are eating for the person you will become.
Now, why are you getting a maximized calorie deficit from this method? Because the ExRx calculator underestimates almost all calories, except Rest. So what should happen if spot checked, is on big workout days, calories eaten minus actual exercise calories burned is below current BMR figure. Small workout days is at or slightly above. Non-workout days is recovery. Your body only gets as strong as the rest it gets.
So what this means is almost all your better estimated non-exercise daily activity is truly going unfed. But since it is exactly the type of activity that uses fat mainly, that is where the deficit has always come from.
Sadly, MFP just has a problem not only using that up, but going well below your BMR also.
BTW, I tested a bunch of different body types, and only infrequently did the maintenance calories for the person you will become, end up lower than the current BMR, so safe. Only in obese situations, and that is exactly when that is safer, to pull that routine for a little while.
Otherwise, do you really want to lose 20-30% of your daily calorie burn (300-600 calories) by lowering your metabolism and BMR because of under eating constantly?
Lot of questions and comments there.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/471769-an-easier-way-to-setup-goal-calories-eating-for-who-you-wi
This started from researching back over my time racing when I needed to lose a 10 lb winter gain, and later in life losing 42 lbs in 4 months. In looking over my diary back then, I noticed I had none of the problems commonly brought up on the boards, losing the final 5, or getting stalled, while exercising massive amounts, and eating at a steady calorie level. I observed that I accomplished back then what I've learned through reading research in later years, and wanted to figure out a way to incorporate it into MFP's tools, though it ends up not totally, but mostly, using their tools.
This is long because of extra explanation, the actual method is simple and spreadsheet is available, but please read and appreciate. This can get you over the dreaded plateau effect too.
Why not just tell MFP the weight you want to end up at, select the activity level you are really at, select weight loss goal of maintenance, and just eat at the recommended, and don't enter exercise calories?
You would be eating at the level for the person you want to be. Isn't that what you will do eventually?
Problem, selecting that activity level. Only 4 levels, which one is right? Need a better way to estimate correctly, because the math for deficit always starts with what that number is. Also called Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE).
Problem, there would be no tracking of current weight, and the encouragement from that progress.
Problem, the actual gap in calories between current and future you may not be that big, must maximize the deficit.
Can you manually adjust the goal calories to accomplish the same thing?
You bet.
Couple of interesting points, in case not known.
BMR, why so important to not be eating below it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate
"energy in this state is sufficient only for the functioning of the vital organs, the heart, lungs, nervous system, kidneys, liver, intestine, sex organs, muscles, and skin."
If you constantly provide less than BMR in net calories, your body can NOT get this from itself, it will eventually slow it down to require less.
And considering a healthy BMR probably burns more calories than your exercise, perhaps your exercise and normal daily activity, do you really want it slower? If you lower your BMR by 200 calories below what it could be burning, what % of your daily exercise is 200 calories, 40-50%? Plus, with slower metabolism, all your actual calorie burning for daily and exercise activities is less too.
The Harris and Mifflin calculations (gender, age, weight, height) for BMR are pretty accurate for those already in the healthy average range - meaning when you get to goal weight. When you are outside of that healthy weight, it loses accuracy.
The Katch calculation (weight, bodyfat %) for BMR is more accurate during all times, and doesn't need exact BF% to be within 50 calories of BMR. But it also was based on study of people already within healthy range. Underestimates when more fat for metabolism to support.
So the MFP Mifflin BMR calc is probably as accurate as you need it - when you are at your goal weight. But probably not right now.
The MFP (and others) activity level selection is 4 broad categories which can make it difficult to get right.
But using sedentary and entering all exercise calories could be very off too.
Having a big amount of calories on some days to make up is difficult to eat.
So here is a much easier method. Basic steps. Homework mainly on step 2.
1. Calculate your BMR for the weight you want to be.
2. Calculate your current activity level with better accuracy and include exercise in that estimate.
3. Arrive at TDEE calories for the person you will be eating as eventually.
4. Set MFP Net Calories Consumed Goal amount.
5. Don't log exercise calories, just the activity and time for tracking that goal, but 1 calorie.
Spreadsheets for doing the above steps. Post below on improvements to manual method. Sample data included.
Excel - http://home.everestkc.net/mbales/
Google (stay in yellow fields or might delete a formula) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amt7QBR9-c6MdGZlcmNCNmhJWFhtUGl0ZEk1RFd1c0E
To understand what is being done, please keep reading before using spreadsheet.
1. Use this site for calculating BMR for your goal weight.
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html
Use the gender, age, height, and goal weight.
2. Enter in your normal sleep and TV time, normal desk job, normal walking, normal weight lifting, normal intense exercise time, avg hours per day. This method WILL underestimate the calories you exercise. Do not underestimate yourself. Use walking speeds referenced as comparison.
Easiest to add up your normal hours for the whole week of varies levels (pay attention to the description), and then divide by 7.
ie - 1 hr cardio x 5 days = 5 hrs weekly / 7 = 0.7 hrs daily avg to enter under Heavy.
Please see topic on How to use the activity calculator for example.
3. That is the Total calories you would probably be eating as maintenance at your goal weight doing that level of activity on avg each day. I say probably, the goal is you'll have so much extra muscle, it'll be higher.
4. Now in MFP, use the Tools - BMR Calculator to estimate your current BMR, note this figure.
Now, Home - Settings - Update diet/fitness profile.
Confirm Current and Goal weight and other body stats are correct.
Set Normal daily activities to Very Active or Active, depending on what you saw from activity calculator. This has no bearing on setting goals now, only the encouragement you receive when the food diary is Completed, and you receive "in 5 weeks you'll weigh...".
Enter your planned exercise goals, again, no bearing on any math.
Change What is your goal? to Maintain current weight. This also has no bearing on the math, as you will manually set the goal.
My Home - Goals - Change Goals - Custom - Continue - change Net Calories Consumed to that Total Calories maintenance from the ExRx site.
Change Calories Burned / Week to 0, since you will no longer log exercise calories, and click Change Goals.
The Profile activity level and weight loss goal no longer matter, because MFP is looking at non-exercise calories, you just set the goal to include those, so math will be totally off.
5. Now when you log Exercise, just enter activity and time for tracking if desired, but only 1 calorie burned. Put in the Diary notes if really desired to know calories. Might be good for spot checks. I record exercise calories and subtract that from eaten calories for Net calories for that day. Allows for easy confirmation using MFP Reports and view a weeks Diary Notes.
Spreadsheets for doing the above steps. Post below on improvements to manual method. Sample data included.
Excel - http://home.everestkc.net/mbales/
Google (stay in yellow fields or might delete a formula) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amt7QBR9-c6MdGZlcmNCNmhJWFhtUGl0ZEk1RFd1c0E
You may want to review your Exercise Diary a month down the road to confirm the hours spent match the estimate you gave for activity level, and if it should be updated up or down.
You may also want to record in your Food Diary Notes, the daily times for each level you entered in the ExRx calculator.
When you Check-in for your weight, you can create new measurement for current BMR that MFP told you. Be careful using that MFP BMR calculator again, it seems to reset everything. Maybe it won't for you, very annoying when testing these settings.
And now your Food Diary Daily Goal Calories will always reflect the same number, no credits for exercise, no big makeups to eat, ect. If you know a big dinner is Sat night, you can always cut back 200 on Fri, 200 on Sun, and balance on Mon for instance. Or in place of that, add 15 min to workouts that week. Just keeping in balance for a week at a time.
But normal fluctuations in missing a workout, or adding in a extra one, or extra time, don't have to be worried about beyond learning how to skip or add a snack, exactly like you'll have to learn to do when this is your maintenance lifestyle.
Only if the routine is changing, schools out, added a spin class, added 30 min 3 days a week, ect. Then recalc to get it right.
Otherwise, set it and forget it.
And you are eating for the person you will become.
Now, why are you getting a maximized calorie deficit from this method? Because the ExRx calculator underestimates almost all calories, except Rest. So what should happen if spot checked, is on big workout days, calories eaten minus actual exercise calories burned is below current BMR figure. Small workout days is at or slightly above. Non-workout days is recovery. Your body only gets as strong as the rest it gets.
So what this means is almost all your better estimated non-exercise daily activity is truly going unfed. But since it is exactly the type of activity that uses fat mainly, that is where the deficit has always come from.
Sadly, MFP just has a problem not only using that up, but going well below your BMR also.
BTW, I tested a bunch of different body types, and only infrequently did the maintenance calories for the person you will become, end up lower than the current BMR, so safe. Only in obese situations, and that is exactly when that is safer, to pull that routine for a little while.
Otherwise, do you really want to lose 20-30% of your daily calorie burn (300-600 calories) by lowering your metabolism and BMR because of under eating constantly?
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Replies
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For those curious about the comment the Harris-Benedict calc for BMR is off, here is quick reference, and you can also read through the 200 page study if desired, very interesting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris-Benedict_equation
The equation does not take into account calories burned by existing large amounts of muscle mass, nor does it account for the additional calories provided by excess body fat—so the equation is more effective for individuals at an ideal body weight or close to it.[2]
So the calculation is just fine for the future you most likely (unless you are going to be really muscling it up!), but more inaccurate at current you.
The MFP site uses a BMR calculation by Mifflin that is considered about 5% more accurate when you are in the final healthy range.
That might come into play when you are within pounds of goal weight.
Then again, using the ExRx site and using bodyfat% might be better then too, because you may just have more muscle than the avg healthy person the formulas are based on! Here's hoping that is true.
In which case, you may be as thin as you want, and 5 lbs of extra lean muscle is very desired.0 -
So what are some things about this method that might be view as a benefit?
This is not to take away from MFP method, if you find that easy enough, and have accurate exercise calorie estimates to eat back, and MFP has not set your goal net below your BMR actually, and you don't mind potential big eating days, you can indeed benefit from following it.
But for this method, other reasons.
Biggest thing is trying to have your net calories really hit your BMR on avg for a week. Some days will be less, some more. But your metabolism should never see a need to massively slow down and waste free calorie burn.
So this means if you have a lot to lose, you automatically have factored in bigger deficit. (current maintenance 2500, future maintenance 1800)
Less to lose, smaller deficit. (current 2000 when you reach that point, future 1800) Which is considered safer and more sustainable.
Have a lot of specific workouts, but not much other daily activity - factored in.
Few if any specific workouts, but lots of daily activity - factored in.
Mix - factored in.
Don't have to worry about logging exercise calories. If you have accurate as possible estimates from good HRM, great, record in exercise notes, but log 1 calorie for the workout. This will allow you to spot check that indeed, on those workout days, maintenance calories minus known exercise calories is probably netting around BMR level. Big days under, light days above, no workout day is recovery.
The ExRx calculator estimates on activity is underestimated by a decent amount.
Plus the estimates are based on goal weight activity, not your increased burn now at current weight.
Another thought regarding the idea of eating back exercise calories the MFP way. Even if you have really accurate estimate from great Polar HRM, that 60 min say is really a total of what would have been normal activity calories during that time, plus extra from exercise. If the idea is to correctly eat exercise back, you must actually take the HRM calories minus the normal maintenance calories already figured for that time. This method avoids that need to be so exact.
On any day that is not a workout day, you get an increased day of calories ("spike day") if you think about it. At least if you have a heavy exercise routine and 1 day off. If you don't, you get a few spud days. If no specific workouts but daily activity, I guess you get constant mash days.
Since this is a weekly balance method, if you know you need a big splurge day for special occasion and possibly a lot of calories, lighten up by known amount day before, have big day, lighten up for the balance. MFP Diary daily goal will show green on light day, red on big day, just match up. Workout or non-workout day doesn't matter with weekly balance.
You get used to eating a normal daily amount. Know a big dinner is coming, eat a lighter lunch and skip the snack.
You know you can include a bit of desert with dinner, and not pig out, because you get to have it tomorrow too.
I'll add more as they come up, just wanted to place to discuss benefits folks find.0 -
Understand how to do your hours under the activity calculator.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/477753-how-do-i-do-activity-level-and-calculator
But now I made a spreadsheet that includes the ExRx BMR and activity calculator.
It uses both the current weight and goal weight together, plus conversion from metric.
It uses a more recent and estimated about 5% more accurate Mifflin BMR estimate for your goal weight.
It also uses it for current weight, or allows using the bodyfat% stat for Katch-McArdle estimate.
It splits the activity calculator up much easier to enter separate workout days and such to get weekly total and daily average.
It shows the goal weight and current weight total calories.
It shows exactly what to change in MFP to see the most encouragement and manual goal change.
It gives a week of food and exercise calories to see what happens through the whole week.
It gives a day for confirming what happens on heavy, or light, or no workout days.
Here is an online Google Spreadsheet version. Just be careful of the fields with formulas, stick to the yellow boxes.
Use the Future You tab for this plan.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amt7QBR9-c6MdGVTbGswLUUzUHNVVUlNSW9wZWloeUE
It is filled with sample data so you can see what it is doing.0
This discussion has been closed.