Spina Bifida

becoming_a_new_me

Scenario: You or your SO is pregnant and the child has spina bifida. Would you keep it?

Me? Yes, I have suffered 11 miscarriages (documented) and would give any child life. What would you do?

castadiva

I assume you mean the form of spina bifida when disability, including paralysis, is almost certain, rather than the milder forms which often have no detectable effects? My intellectual response is that I would terminate the pregnancy - I know myself and my limits well enough to know that caring for a severely disabled child would drive me beyond what I could cope with, and would in no way be compatible with my professional life, which I have fought very, very hard for, and which is central to who I am. I have enormous respect for those parents who care for disabled children, but am aware of my own limitations in this regard. Emotionally, I don't know how I would react - I hope I never have to find out.

adrian_indy

How early can they detect Spina Bifida?

KimmieBrie

How early can they detect Spina Bifida?

Blood tests, Ultrasound, and amnio... but I think not till 11-12 weeks along.

fbmandy55

Of course. I don't see it as right to abort a child, especially if the reasoning is because he/she is flawed.

KimmieBrie

Oh and I would keep the child. I've also miscarried. I would keep any child. Those tests are not definitive and I wouldn't take them.
Amnio and other intrusive tests that could possibly cause miscarriage I won't do... ultimately it wouldn't change my decision anyway so I wouldn't have that test done.

nehtaeh

Hypothetical situations aren't really good to judge what someone would do...I would never know unless presented with that situation.

I have a friend who was told multiple times during her pregnancy that she should abort. However, they never could give her a good indication of what was wrong with the child, just that something was. She didn't. She had a child with hydrocephalus who is now a beautiful 11 year old. That said, who could say they'd do the same thing if they've never been in that situation.

adrian_indy

As I've said in previous abortion threads, to me, a mother's rights to supercede a fetus that is too young to survive outside the womb. I do not consider that a human being yet. However, once it has reached the threshold that it is a human life that can now sustain itself, it has equal rights to any other human being on the planet in my book. Socioeconomics or health have no affect on my view. I could care less if the kid grows up to be Albert Einstein, Hitler, Tebow or Charles Manson. And I don't care if the baby grows up in a slum or in a mansion. That argument has no bearing to me.

As far as what my wife and I would do, I'll give the kid a fighting chance. There is no gaurantee that this child will have a miserable life do to this abnormality. Will the child suffer, sure, varying with the severity of the Spina Bifida, but I tend to be an optimist and in a relatively short amount of time, care for people with this disablity has improved.

fbmandy55

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

nehtaeh

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

Not all just do it. And, that's your opinion, you have every right to think any person is sick. I tend to not judge those people and let them have their choice to do what is best for them.

mikajoanow

There is no way anyone could know what they would do when really in that situation. Even women who are anti choice still have abortions and I know fiercly pro choice women who have and carried to term children with down syndrome.

nehtaeh

I am pro-choice and opted not to have those tests that would have told me if my twins had issues. Unless an u/s showed me a major issue I wouldn't have known about it to make that choice.

castadiva

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but in my view, it would be my job as a parent to provide my child, or children, with the best quality of life I possibly could. If I knew the foetus I was carrying would experience a significantly reduced quality of life because of a medical issue, I'd be thinking very hard about whether or not it was right to continue the pregnancy, and what the best choice I could make for that potential child, as his or her parent, might be. I would also be thinking about how I would be as a mother to a child with significant disabilities, and whether I could be a good mother to that child, which is a deeply personal issue requiring serious thought and self-knowledge. My life and the lives of my partner and or any other children I had would also be significantly adversely affected, and that's something I'd have to consider also.
I know we differ on our views as to when a foetus becomes a separate entity with its' own rights, but from my perspective, the needs and rights of those already living as independent organisms have as much, if not more, bearing on this question than those of the foetus. I don't think that's sick, that's responsible.

Many parents of disabled children do cope, but many others struggle, and sometimes are unable to handle the situation, with catastrophic results. If one has the option of foreknowledge, and the self-knowledge to know that this situation is beyond your ability to handle, then I believe this is a valid choice.

mikajoanow

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but in my view, it would be my job as a parent to provide my child, or children, with the best quality of life I possibly could. If I knew the foetus I was carrying would experience a significantly reduced quality of life because of a medical issue, I'd be thinking very hard about whether or not it was right to continue the pregnancy, and what the best choice I could make for that potential child, as his or her parent, might be. I would also be thinking about how I would be as a mother to a child with significant disabilities, and whether I could be a good mother to that child, which is a deeply personal issue requiring serious thought and self-knowledge. My life and the lives of my partner and or any other children I had would also be significantly adversely affected, and that's something I'd have to consider also.
I know we differ on our views as to when a foetus becomes a separate entity with its' own rights, but from my perspective, the needs and rights of those already living as independent organisms have as much, if not more, bearing on this question than those of the foetus. I don't think that's sick, that's responsible.

Many parents of disabled children do cope, but many others struggle, and sometimes are unable to handle the situation, with catastrophic results. If one has the option of foreknowledge, and the self-knowledge to know that this situation is beyond your ability to handle, then I believe this is a valid choice.

Very nice post.

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

Some women, especially ones in their late thirties and beyond know themselves well enough to know what kind of parent they would be to a child with a disability that is severe like that. I have a child with a disability that is mild compared to spina bifida and it was so hard on us we almost got divorced, I gained 50 pounds, and spent night after night sobbing on the internet and reading many many books trying to find help. My husband had his own issues. I have found countless other people who didn't fair much better. The costs alone were ridiculous and we make a good living and have supposedly good insurance. When someone who is in general a thoughtful person and who knows themselves tells me that they can't handle something I tend to believe them.
I have zero idea what I would do in that situation, because I think going in knowing that your child will be more than likely disabled their entire lives and will probably have to have multiple surgeries throughout their lives would change your expectations. You would have more time to make peace with it.

MikeSEA

Yeah I think it really depends on the situation. When I was growing up, our neighbors (a young couple in their 20s) had a baby girl with Spina Bifida. As far as I'm concerned she lead a tortured existence. After several operations, it was a lost cause. The couple eventually divorced after her passing.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I wonder how early that likely outcome could have been predicted these days and what affect aborting would have had on their relationship.

LuckyLeprechaun

I would terminate the pregnancy.

My husband is 20 years my senior, we have already decided that the existing 5 children he had with his ex-wife are all the children we are going to have. Any pregnancy at this point in my life would be unwanted. Add to that all the difficulties and challenges this diagnosis would bring, there would be no hesitation on my part.

I would never judge anyone for their own decision on this extremely difficult matter, but I'm fairly certain how I would react. Motherhood is not in the cards for me. Motherhood to a disabled child sounds like the worst, scariest thing I can imagine.

I respect deeply those who have the patience, dedication, tireless devotion it takes to parent, care for, and educate those children whose lives have been changed by their disability. I know better than to imagine that I am capable of it. I am not.

fbmandy55

So for thsoe who would terminate, what if the child was BORN with an issue that was not previously found? What would you do in that scenario?

fbmandy55

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

Many parents of disabled children do cope, but many others struggle, and sometimes are unable to handle the situation, with catastrophic results. If one has the option of foreknowledge, and the self-knowledge to know that this situation is beyond your ability to handle, then I believe this is a valid choice.

Many parents of normal children and perfectly healthy babies also struggle, also divorce and also have terrible issues. Many people with healthy children stress to they point where they become abusive. But it is justified if your baby has a disability?

LuckyLeprechaun

Place the child for adoption.

I grew up being babysat by a woman who was also a foster mother. She had extra love to give and purposefully chose to foster children whose disabilities were severe. She fostered probably 100 children in the 25 years we knew her. They were better cared for and more well loved than many "regular" kids. She dealt with disabilities like autism, blindness, mental retardation, fetal alcohol syndrome, and lots of physical ones as well.

There are a million stories about awful foster homes. I think the bad ones get a lot of attention, while the good ones do not. My mother was raised in a foster home from her mid-teens, and her experience was wonderful, especially compared to the situation it rescued her from.

But, this hypothetical would never come to be. At this point in my life, I have no intention of becoming pregnant, so I make sure I will never be faced with such an agonizingly difficult decision.

MikeSEA

As someone who's pro choice, I would also mention though that I'm glad that my mother, who found out she had cervical cancer the same day she found out she was pregnant with me, chose not to abort. However, I recognize that it was her choice.

It's not exactly the same thing, I realize.

mikajoanow

So for thsoe who would terminate, what if the child was BORN with an issue that was not previously found? What would you do in that scenario?

I would consider terminating and more than likely would if I knew about it very early.

For me personally if I found out too late or gave birth and then found out I would make peace with the situation and try to give it the best life that I could. But at that point to me you're dealing with a person who has rights and feelings just like anyone else. I don't look at a 12 week fetus the same way I do a child who is born. (or even close to being born)

Nopedotjpeg

Scenario: You or your SO is pregnant and

You can stop right there because my answer is going to be the same no matter what at this stage in my life.

LuckyLeprechaun

Scenario: You or your SO is pregnant and

You can stop right there because my answer is going to be the same no matter what at this stage in my life.

me too. But I confess I was afraid to admit it. :ohwell:

Bahet

I'd abort.

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

Isn't it also "shopping for a good one" with wannabe adoptive parents who only want a healthy white newborn? Most people who are looking to adopt won't even consider a minority (unless they are one), a handicapped child, or an older child. Do they make you sick too?

fbmandy55

I'd abort.

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

Isn't it also "shopping for a good one" with wannabe adoptive parents who only want a healthy white newborn? Most people who are looking to adopt won't even consider a minority (unless they are one), a handicapped child, or an older child. Do they make you sick too?

Apples and oranges. Aborting your blood child because it has a flaw and adopting a child that isn't yours are two very different things. You aren't obligated when looking into adoption, when deciding to conceive, well you pretty much are.

LuckyLeprechaun

I don't necessarily agree that conception creates an obligation.


Also, How many people "decide" to conceive vs. how many people realize they have conceived after the fact?

My bc pills are 99% effective, but if somehow a pregnancy happened to me, then I have an obligation? What obligation is that? And why?

mikajoanow

I'd abort.

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

Isn't it also "shopping for a good one" with wannabe adoptive parents who only want a healthy white newborn? Most people who are looking to adopt won't even consider a minority (unless they are one), a handicapped child, or an older child. Do they make you sick too?

Apples and oranges. Aborting your blood child because it has a flaw and adopting a child that isn't yours are two very different things. You aren't obligated when looking into adoption, when deciding to conceive, well you pretty much are.

Number one they don’t have an obligation if they are within a time frame that is legal during pregnancy, not everyone views an embryo as a person like you do. Number two, you might not agree with people who would abort for medical reasons, but people who were trying to conceive and found out that something was terribly wrong with their pregnancy aren't exactly happy with their situation. Its not as petty as you make it sound, it is heartbreaking for the people who were trying to bring a child into the world.

kit_katty

I've realized that personally I'm very much in the quality of life camp. As such, I would likely abort the child (assuming I knew early on).

fbmandy55

I'd abort.

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

Isn't it also "shopping for a good one" with wannabe adoptive parents who only want a healthy white newborn? Most people who are looking to adopt won't even consider a minority (unless they are one), a handicapped child, or an older child. Do they make you sick too?

Apples and oranges. Aborting your blood child because it has a flaw and adopting a child that isn't yours are two very different things. You aren't obligated when looking into adoption, when deciding to conceive, well you pretty much are.

Number one they don’t have an obligation if they are within a time frame that is legal during pregnancy, not everyone views an embryo as a person like you do. Number two, you might not agree with people who would abort for medical reasons, but people who were trying to conceive and found out that something was terribly wrong with their pregnancy aren't exactly happy with their situation. Its not as petty as you make it sound, it is heartbreaking for the people who were trying to bring a child into the world.

As I stated "WHEN TRYING TO CONCEIVE". Isn't "trying to conceive without obligation' kind of an oxymoron? Unless you are a surrogate that is...

mikajoanow

I'd abort.

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

Isn't it also "shopping for a good one" with wannabe adoptive parents who only want a healthy white newborn? Most people who are looking to adopt won't even consider a minority (unless they are one), a handicapped child, or an older child. Do they make you sick too?

Apples and oranges. Aborting your blood child because it has a flaw and adopting a child that isn't yours are two very different things. You aren't obligated when looking into adoption, when deciding to conceive, well you pretty much are.

Number one they don’t have an obligation if they are within a time frame that is legal during pregnancy, not everyone views an embryo as a person like you do. Number two, you might not agree with people who would abort for medical reasons, but people who were trying to conceive and found out that something was terribly wrong with their pregnancy aren't exactly happy with their situation. Its not as petty as you make it sound, it is heartbreaking for the people who were trying to bring a child into the world.

As I stated "WHEN TRYING TO CONCEIVE". Isn't "trying to conceive without obligation' kind of an oxymoron? Unless you are a surrogate that is...

And the difference is? If you are trying to conceive and nature takes a turn for the worst you do not have an obligation to continue with the pregnancy.

Nopedotjpeg

I'd abort.

Everyone knows that having a child with disabilities would be difficult. More than I can imagine. But parents of those children don't just say, "I can't do it.." They JUST DO IT. To me, aborting a child because it has a deformity or disabilty is sick. It's like shopping for a good one- "I don't like this one, or this one or this one... Oh, this one is good. I'll keep it."

Isn't it also "shopping for a good one" with wannabe adoptive parents who only want a healthy white newborn? Most people who are looking to adopt won't even consider a minority (unless they are one), a handicapped child, or an older child. Do they make you sick too?

Apples and oranges. Aborting your blood child because it has a flaw and adopting a child that isn't yours are two very different things. You aren't obligated when looking into adoption, when deciding to conceive, well you pretty much are.

Nope. This is 2012 and there are now options. A choice is a choice is a choice. Also, there's the defining line between "child" and "fetus" as well.