Dating and the modern woman

Showgirlbody

I don't know if it's just me, but one aspect of going on dates that causes me anxiety is the issue of the bill. Maybe if you are from a more traditional area or background, it is easy because it's just known that the man pays. I have no idea what to do. (I do not have an issue with paying my own way, though I do think it's nice for the guy to treat the first couple times just for chivalry sake). I always offer to get the next thing or I make dinner sometime, etc. (That is if we are even actually going out on semi-dates and not just "hanging out" lol)
I know men that get offended if a woman tries to pay and I know men that get offended if she doesn't at least offer or reach for her wallet. If I'm meeting someone for coffee or something, I actually get there early and get my own drink so I don't have that awkard walk up to the counter not knowing if we are "together" or "separate". I once went to the movies with a guy and while we were in line, he stayed back as I went up to pay my ticket so it was obvious that we were paying our own way. At least no ambiguity there. The other night, I had drinks with someone and he had the bill when I went to the restroom and was putting in a 20 so I just asked how much it was and how much money I owed and he told me to pay the tip. Okay. Really not a big deal in theory, but it really, really distracts me. This bill thing makes me uncomfortable suggesting things to do, because I don't want to pick something beyond what he wants to spend if he wants to treat but tells me to choose.
Is it just me that gets distressed over this issue? I'm not a gold digger trying to get free dinners and stuff (and I know plenty guys who have been taken advantage of by them) and I respect that I'm a grown woman with a job, too. So, what are the rules? Do you hash it out on the phone before so you don't have that awkward bill moment? lol

JanieJack

You are NOT the only one who stresses about stuff like that!

I'm always prepared to cover it, and if it's not a clear "date" situation, I do like you: go get my own and let him stop me if he wants to. Funny thing is: I don't stress over it if it's a "date" but I *do* stress over it when it's a guy *I* still like who I suspect has already put me in the friend category (but I'm not sure) because I don't want a man who is 100% not interested spending a lot of money on me (to me that's a romantic thing), but I don't want to send him a signal that I'm no longer romantically interested by insisting I pay.

I'd like to know "the rules" myself... the guys in my office all get mad at women who don't offer to pay but, the few times I've offered to pay, it seemed like the guy got offended. If I invite him (like to a concert with friends, to a sporting event, to a get-together) then I'm paying for it , but I've never asked a guy on a dinner date. Sometimes I invite myself to something a guy is already doing, and in those cases I pay for myself (because he didn't ask me) unless he beats me to the punch.

JanieJack

What cracks me up is the guys I work with who want women to "reach for their wallet." I know many women who "reach" fully expecting the guy to stop them and when he doesn't they come up with some reason to get distracted, then go to the bathroom for an extended time (so he'll just pay it so they can leave).

Showgirlbody

I totally get what you are saying about wondering if it's a friend thing if there isn't any date type effort and that part of the romance is a guy wanting to take you on a date. We had the topic before about dating vs. hanging out, and that's the thing. Guys ask to hang out to get out of having to plan, execute and possibly be expected to pay. But I have noticed that the super beautiful girls that ARE the gold diggers or looking for free dinners (a million actress/model somethings here) do get asked on dates and get stuff planned out, and totally get wooed. So you do think that if they make no effort you are friend zoned or just gonna be friends with benefits. I just want to have someone to do things and enjoy company with and be shown that someone wants to spend time and get to know me and not just want to come over to "watch a movie". So the chill girls get nothing while the crazy golddiggers get all the effort. Seems not fair and gives the rest of us a bad name. Pay or no pay, I will pay my own way. But in some ways, there are some traditional things where you expect them to take the lead on showing if they are interested or not so finding out how to do that and have romance without busting out a calculator is really hard.

flimflamfloz

Women that offer to pay (alternating with me) are hot - blatant indicator of interest! :laugh: Makes me feel good, comfortable and fully focused on the moment too, since I know I'm not just paying because she was bored at home and wanted to get a free meal.

So if I get the first round of drinks, I fully expect the girl to say "I'll get the next one!" with a smile and that makes me a happy chappy :drinker:

There is no way I should have to pay for these girls. Dates are just that... Dates. You both just want to know if you are interested, and I'm glad society is changing its views on that. It was valid when women were just wives though.

I'm actually a generous person, but not an idiot (most of the time )

So, go for a drink first, offer to pay for the drink, if he refuses let him pay then offer to get the next one. Next round comes, offer to pay, if he refuses just smile and say something like "It's not 1900 any more don't worry * wink *" or "Please, I insist - I would like to buy you a drink". Basically just freakin' pay!!! :laugh: (at this point I'm thinking "Wow she's a nice girl, same mentality as mine about this issue").
I wouldn't think a girl was friend zoning me for doing that!

Point is (I guess):
- If you are happy to be spoon fed, then find a man that likes to spoil you and buys everything.
- If you are not "old school", then find a guy who isn't either.
Everyone has got their preference.

As for "super beautiful girls", it's basically almost like prostitution (for lack of a better word) what you are describing - as a man, you basically pay because you (foolishly) hope that this will get you anywhere (and everywhere ). Then man fails, calls the girl a gold digger, but man was the one who was stoopid in the first place.

flimflamfloz

I just want to have someone to do things and enjoy company with and be shown that someone wants to spend time and get to know me and not just want to come over to "watch a movie".

This is true. This is also why, to me, you actually don't need to spend thousands, just a picnic in a park and you bring a bottle and some food that you prepared for the other person to try. Cheap as hell, and probably excellent date if you go along well with the other person!
I basically just want to enjoy your company! Then we can always watch a movie later with a massive belly if things were cool...

AnnaPixie

I always offer to pay my way. This will either be accepted or declined. No stress involved :bigsmile: What you thereafter think of the guy or what he thinks of you, is a separate issue. You can't beat being yourself. There are no rules. Everyone is different :flowerforyou:

DMZ_1

Now this is a great thread topic.

The pre 1970s United States viewpoint was that men were supposed to pay for dates. The social expectation was clear.

Now, things are a little less clear. First off, in urban environments in the US, childless women in their 20s make more than childless men in their 20s. The logic on why men should foot the bill can be shaky given this factor, at least for children born during the 1980s. Also, keep in mind that the current economic downturn has affected those under 30 more than any other age group, particularly the men of this generational cohort. A lot of dating still occurs within this age cohort, even in this era of delayed marriage.

I don't want to get too off topic here.

I'm not sure that a lot of women have put a lot of thought into some of the aspects I mentioned in the previous paragraph, and there is somewhat of a perceived expectation amongst a lot of men that they are to pay.

My solution is to set a cap on the amount that I am willing to pay on a first date. I do pay for early round dates, and I do try to keep costs down while planning fun activities and getting to know the person. Doing that can be challenging.

I really wish it were easier to take this part of the equation out of the picture until about date 3 or so. Trying to plan a date with absolutely no exchange of currency is great.

flimflamfloz

The pre 1970s United States viewpoint was that men were supposed to pay for dates. The social expectation was clear.

Now, things are a little less clear. First off, in urban environments in the US, childless women in their 20s make more than childless men in their 20s. The logic on why men should foot the bill can be shaky given this factor, at least for children born during the 1980s. Also, keep in mind that the current economic downturn has affected those under 30 more than any other age group, particularly the men of this generational cohort. A lot of dating still occurs within this age cohort, even in this era of delayed marriage.

I find this hilarious (although true), and I will definitely have to say something along those lines next time... :laugh: Can't wait to see the face of the (un)lucky girl.

I'm not sure that a lot of women have put a lot of thought into some of the aspects I mentioned in the previous paragraph, and there is somewhat of a perceived expectation amongst a lot of men that they are to pay.

My new goal in life is to teach them!

JanieJack

So the chill girls get nothing while the crazy golddiggers get all the effort.

Exactly. This is why I don't feel bad for expecting the man to pay when we're on a date. Because the same guys who gripe to me about golddiggers still go through great efforts to woo the next one that comes along. I'm worth wooing.

JanieJack

As for "super beautiful girls", it's basically almost like prostitution (for lack of a better word) what you are describing - as a man, you basically pay because you (foolishly) hope that this will get you anywhere (and everywhere ). Then man fails, calls the girl a gold digger....

And then he texts (not even calls) the "chill girl" who is always ok with "hanging out" and even a little intimacy though he spent no effort on her except for a last minute contact.

No thank you. There are plenty of other girls who are okay with this kind of thing, so you menfolk won't miss my absence ;-)

AllanMisner

I just find the whole bill thing so petty. So, I've gotten in the habit of just paying it, even when it's me out with friends. Now, if you're asking me to pay your rent or mortgage, then maybe I'd care. But it's a freaking meal. Move on.

La_Amazona

First dates, I let them pay usually. If we're drinking, I'll buy a round usually.

After 1st dates, I might get the bill. Usually the guys will be hestitant and if they insist, I won't but some will gladly accept. I like chivalry, love it actually but I I just see it as another way to let them know I like them and am interested.

natalie2355

My mom taught me this rule of thumb: ALWAYS offer to pay... but if they say they've got it, dont try and offer again and seem pushy. thats kinda what i've always done.

Showgirlbody

So there are still different schools of thought. I think if you invite anyone whether you or male or female to something specific then the inviter should pay. "Would you like to go to xyz with me tomorrow?" Even Dear Abby agrees that if the woman does the asking, she should pay. But it seems if it's kind of a first meeting or getting to know you (especially from online) where you mutually agree to meet up for a drink or something, then it's more ambiguous so I fully expect to pay my own way. Most guys and girls I know think it's acceptable for maybe the guy to treat the first couple times, and then alternate after that. But I have had the experience of a guy who felt emasculated and thought you were a feminazi just for offering to pay so I don't insist if they want to, I just try to get them back in another way like cooking some other time.

So guys, if you are of the equality camp, how do you go about it if a woman is fully expecting you to foot the bill? Do you say "well, your share is..." after you get the check or just begrudgingly pay it? I knew girls in college who never even brought their wallet to bars or restaurants. lol

thecarbmonster

I try to avoid any "who pays for dinner" awkwardness by offering to give my card to pay half. If they say "no, my treat", I'll offer to buy dessert or coffee afterwards. Most times the guy will still pay for both, but it shows I'm appreciative and want to reciprocate.

I think it can be a bit embarrassing to pay, even if I offered since it may imply "he's just not that into you", but I have a very strong opinion-ed male friend who believes "why should i put down a down payment if I don't know if I'm going to purchase yet?" lol.

pa_jorg

My mom taught me this rule of thumb: ALWAYS offer to pay... but if they say they've got it, dont try and offer again and seem pushy. thats kinda what i've always done.

I agree with this. The bill issue is just one of the many reasons I prefer a coffeeshop for a first date - it won't break the bank.

flimflamfloz

So guys, if you are of the equality camp, how do you go about it if a woman is fully expecting you to foot the bill? Do you say "well, your share is..." after you get the check or just begrudgingly pay it? I knew girls in college who never even brought their wallet to bars or restaurants. lol

1. Suppose we plan on going to a restaurant (which I will avoid as someone said above: coffee or drink is fine, and it's annoying to talk with food in your mouth and have it smelling of garlic later on), you can always ask: "What's your limit/budget?" to the girl, or something similar, or if you go for a drink first then see she can't pay for it, you don't go to the restaurant later.
Might feel awkward, but basically the point is to know if the girl can pay for her stuff, how she feels about paying, and how much she can put. If she has got no wallet, to be fair, I don't really care if the girl finds me rude for asking - goes a long way to show her personality.

2. I still don't understand why I should buy the girl respect with my money on a first date. The idea is foreign to me. If the girl likes me enough, it should not be (and will not be) because I treat her like a princess. Princesses (aka high maintenance girls) are not the kind of girls I'm into anyway. I know they exist, I am fine with that, they are not what I am looking for, and other men that want them will find them. You can't please everyone.
If the girl offers to pay, then to me that means she 1. is not a princess 2. feels like me about this 3. likes me enough to treat me right as well. Massive bonus points for her!
As the person above said, I don't know if I'm purchasing yet on a first date. I would invite you on a second or third date anywhere, but suppose 80% of my first dates fail, that's a really bad move to pay for everything.

thebigbige

I come from a background that women have value, intrinsically, now personally I will always pay for the woman when we go out. Especially a first date, it's not that I'm expecting anything from her, I just want her to know that she is valuable and worth something to spend time with, but it's not like I tell her that straight out, because that could make for a strange conversation.

But for me I always reach for my wallet when the bill is put down, and often I don't let her see what the tab cost, I don't want her to think that she should be responsible or guilty or feel the need to chip in anything for the joy and opportunity to spend time with her, but that's just me.

JanieJack

I'm curious about something... would those of you who have replied to this thread privately message me how many dates you've been on in the last 3 months, and how many of those were repeats?

Thanks.

foremant86

I don't really put too much thought into it and every first date i've ever been on, the guy has paid without question. If he wanted me to pay my half i'd be ok with that too, i always bring money for that reason.

I've been seeing a guy for about 2 months now and he's paid for the dates we've been on except last week when i suggested we go to breakfast i also offered to pay for both of us.

I don't really expect a guy i'm with to continue to pay for everything, i'm always willing to pay as well.

I'm independent enough to be able to pay for myself but if a guy wants to pay('cause some men still do want to pay, makes them feel manly or whatever lol) then i'm ok with that too.

christine24t

I've been on one date in my life. The guy offered to treat because he had a coupon for buy one get one. Wasn't sure how I felt about a coupon on the first date.