Rights

adrian_indy

This isn't really a debate topic as much as it is a huge pet peeve of mine that happens quite often in debates (thankfully only here once I can remember).

Have you ever been in a debate with some yahoo, and you know their argument is crumbling because their answers keep getting more generalized and idiotic? It is only a matter of time before they always say some variation of this:

"Well that's your opinion, and this is mine, and I have the right to that opinion because I have the freedom of speech!"

OK dunderhead, it's usually the deathknell of any debate. What this person is really saying is "Yes, I am aware that now confronted with logic, facts and reason my argument seems ridiculous, but my pride will not let me concede the possibility of defeat so I will get huffy and puffy, play the victim, and act as if my civil liberties are getting trampled."

"That's your opinion (no crap) and this is my opinon (really, I sort of assumed that since YOU were saying it) and I have the right to that opinion (please point to any preceding part of the debate where I told you that you couldn't have that opinion) because I have the Freedom of Speech ( I know, that is why we are arguing, we both have the right to do so)"

Sorry, I know this isn't really a debatable topic, but this just gets under my skin.

Espressocycle

In the end, most people start with opinions and then craft arguments to defend them.

fbmandy55

Or when people keep using the same argument that is invalid, such as Obama and the birth certificate. :noway:

My biggest pet peeve is conspiracy theorists. I had to delete a friend from facebook because he was constantly posting 9/11 inside job theories. Then two of my best friends started posting on my wall about the Illuminati and how they were fans of Michael Moore. I had the urge to defriend them in real life.

Grimmerick

see that's what you get for cheating on us with other debate sites on the internet, lol

adrian_indy

Or when people keep using the same argument that is invalid, such as Obama and the birth certificate. :noway:

My biggest pet peeve is conspiracy theorists. I had to delete a friend from facebook because he was constantly posting 9/11 inside job theories. Then two of my best friends started posting on my wall about the Illuminati and how they were fans of Michael Moore. I had the urge to defriend them in real life.

I believe in conspiracy theories to an extent. Enough have been proven like The Gulf of Tonkin Incident or the fact that in the 1930s, industrialist scum bags tried to convince a highly decorated Marine, Smedely Butler to assemble 50,000 vets and over throw our gov and make us facist. That stuff is real and a matter of public record. My problem with the conspiracty theorists is they forget what a theory is. Theories have a basis in reality. As far as 9/11 goes, I believe we were lied to, of course. Every time one of the Bushies got on the air waves saying "We had no idea this could even possible happen," I thought, wow the memo you just got a few months ago from the CIA that "Osama Bin Laden likely to attack skyscrapers with big ****ing planes" wasn't a warning?! And the Gov does itself no favors because to this day it supresses information of the attack.

But this is where the me and the Conspiracy guys differ. They think that Bush and Cheney some how orchestrated or let 9/11 happen because they are controlled by the satanists at the UN and Zionist Jews and blah blah blah.

Here's my theory. We elected a richie rich retard who spent much of his first year as a president on vacation. He sucked at his job and having the largest terrorist attack happen on your watch is a bad thing. Especially when you are a "I know I have no combat experience, but I can talk tough and shake my fist" Republican whose bread and butter is national defense. So that's my theory, the supression on incompetence in the White House.

fbmandy55

Or when people keep using the same argument that is invalid, such as Obama and the birth certificate. :noway:

My biggest pet peeve is conspiracy theorists. I had to delete a friend from facebook because he was constantly posting 9/11 inside job theories. Then two of my best friends started posting on my wall about the Illuminati and how they were fans of Michael Moore. I had the urge to defriend them in real life.

I believe in conspiracy theories to an extent. Enough have been proven like The Gulf of Tonkin Incident or the fact that in the 1930s, industrialist scum bags tried to convince a highly decorated Marine, Smedely Butler to assemble 50,000 vets and over throw our gov and make us facist. That stuff is real and a matter of public record. My problem with the conspiracty theorists is they forget what a theory is. Theories have a basis in reality. As far as 9/11 goes, I believe we were lied to, of course. Every time one of the Bushies got on the air waves saying "We had no idea this could even possible happen," I thought, wow the memo you just got a few months ago from the CIA that "Osama Bin Laden likely to attack skyscrapers with big ****ing planes" wasn't a warning?! And the Gov does itself no favors because to this day it supresses information of the attack.

But this is where the me and the Conspiracy guys differ. They think that Bush and Cheney some how orchestrated or let 9/11 happen because they are controlled by the satanists at the UN and Zionist Jews and blah blah blah.

Here's my theory. We elected a richie rich retard who spent much of his first year as a president on vacation. He sucked at his job and having the largest terrorist attack happen on your watch is a bad thing. Especially when you are a "I know I have no combat experience, but I can talk tough and shake my fist" Republican whose bread and butter is national defense. So that's my theory, the supression on incompetence in the White House.

Oh I don't necessarily believe what we are told is true. The kind of people I tend to hate are sold on the theory that the government set the whole thing up and planted bombs in the towers because "so and so says it couldn't physically collapse from the planes" or that the Pentagon was hit by our own missles, not a plane... Those kind of things.

I question most of what the government is doing, and I never believe a word of what they say. On the other hand I'm not buying that every world leader is tied by some ancient society and every world event is part of a master plan. :laugh:

MikeSEA

People who use the term, "Freedom of Speech" rarely know what it actually entails constitutionally. Of course, that's only my opinion, but evidently I have a right to it. So, I think that means I win? I can never keep track of the rules.

castadiva

Bump! I always have to log off for the day just as things are getting interesting. damn time zones :grumble:

Espressocycle

I've always suspected Bush and Cheney knew there was a terrorist plot, but assumed it would just be a nice hostage situation perfect for their political purposes. Bush always said "Had I known terrorists were planing to fly airpllanes into buildings on 9/11..." which I take to mean he knew terrorists were going to fly planes SOMEWHERE or he just had the date wrong.

DoingItNow2012

hee hee.

I had a link to this website caleld deraling for dummies, but it seems to no longer be working. But that is a commonly used derailment tactic, among many others. That's similar tosaying "I was just playing devil's advocate" when that was obviously not the case. Some do that, but not all who claim it are. :happy:

MassiveDelta

This isn't really a debate topic as much as it is a huge pet peeve of mine that happens quite often in debates (thankfully only here once I can remember).

Have you ever been in a debate with some yahoo, and you know their argument is crumbling because their answers keep getting more generalized and idiotic? It is only a matter of time before they always say some variation of this:

"Well that's your opinion, and this is mine, and I have the right to that opinion because I have the freedom of speech!"

OK dunderhead, it's usually the deathknell of any debate. What this person is really saying is "Yes, I am aware that now confronted with logic, facts and reason my argument seems ridiculous, but my pride will not let me concede the possibility of defeat so I will get huffy and puffy, play the victim, and act as if my civil liberties are getting trampled."

"That's your opinion (no crap) and this is my opinon (really, I sort of assumed that since YOU were saying it) and I have the right to that opinion (please point to any preceding part of the debate where I told you that you couldn't have that opinion) because I have the Freedom of Speech ( I know, that is why we are arguing, we both have the right to do so)"

Sorry, I know this isn't really a debatable topic, but this just gets under my skin.

"Well that's your opinion, and this is mine, and I have the right to that opinion because I have the freedom of speech!"

adrian_indy

This isn't really a debate topic as much as it is a huge pet peeve of mine that happens quite often in debates (thankfully only here once I can remember).

Have you ever been in a debate with some yahoo, and you know their argument is crumbling because their answers keep getting more generalized and idiotic? It is only a matter of time before they always say some variation of this:

"Well that's your opinion, and this is mine, and I have the right to that opinion because I have the freedom of speech!"

OK dunderhead, it's usually the deathknell of any debate. What this person is really saying is "Yes, I am aware that now confronted with logic, facts and reason my argument seems ridiculous, but my pride will not let me concede the possibility of defeat so I will get huffy and puffy, play the victim, and act as if my civil liberties are getting trampled."

"That's your opinion (no crap) and this is my opinon (really, I sort of assumed that since YOU were saying it) and I have the right to that opinion (please point to any preceding part of the debate where I told you that you couldn't have that opinion) because I have the Freedom of Speech ( I know, that is why we are arguing, we both have the right to do so)"

Sorry, I know this isn't really a debatable topic, but this just gets under my skin.

"Well that's your opinion, and this is mine, and I have the right to that opinion because I have the freedom of speech!"

Nice!

mommared53

This isn't really a debate topic as much as it is a huge pet peeve of mine that happens quite often in debates (thankfully only here once I can remember).

Have you ever been in a debate with some yahoo, and you know their argument is crumbling because their answers keep getting more generalized and idiotic? It is only a matter of time before they always say some variation of this:

"Well that's your opinion, and this is mine, and I have the right to that opinion because I have the freedom of speech!"

OK dunderhead, it's usually the deathknell of any debate. What this person is really saying is "Yes, I am aware that now confronted with logic, facts and reason my argument seems ridiculous, but my pride will not let me concede the possibility of defeat so I will get huffy and puffy, play the victim, and act as if my civil liberties are getting trampled."

"That's your opinion (no crap) and this is my opinon (really, I sort of assumed that since YOU were saying it) and I have the right to that opinion (please point to any preceding part of the debate where I told you that you couldn't have that opinion) because I have the Freedom of Speech ( I know, that is why we are arguing, we both have the right to do so)"

Sorry, I know this isn't really a debatable topic, but this just gets under my skin.

"Well that's your opinion, and this is mine, and I have the right to that opinion because I have the freedom of speech!"

:laugh:

KimmyEB

This isn't really a debate topic as much as it is a huge pet peeve of mine that happens quite often in debates (thankfully only here once I can remember).

Have you ever been in a debate with some yahoo, and you know their argument is crumbling because their answers keep getting more generalized and idiotic? It is only a matter of time before they always say some variation of this:

"Well that's your opinion, and this is mine, and I have the right to that opinion because I have the freedom of speech!"

OK dunderhead, it's usually the deathknell of any debate. What this person is really saying is "Yes, I am aware that now confronted with logic, facts and reason my argument seems ridiculous, but my pride will not let me concede the possibility of defeat so I will get huffy and puffy, play the victim, and act as if my civil liberties are getting trampled."

"That's your opinion (no crap) and this is my opinon (really, I sort of assumed that since YOU were saying it) and I have the right to that opinion (please point to any preceding part of the debate where I told you that you couldn't have that opinion) because I have the Freedom of Speech ( I know, that is why we are arguing, we both have the right to do so)"

Sorry, I know this isn't really a debatable topic, but this just gets under my skin.

Agreed. And to twist it around a bit, I'm also peeved when people are debating things that are purely opinion--there are no real "facts"...just arguing opinions I suppose, and you get those people who feel that their opinion is right, no questions asked....they even try to provide "facts" as to how their opinions are supreme. I have a friend who does this with music. Everyone else's music is utter crap, and he will provide any kind of far-fetched "evidence" he can as to why his music reigns supreme...to the point that he gets so heated and angry that he loses friends over it...**** like that I just don't understand. One of those picks-a-fight-over-anything people, I guess. There's a lot of those running around. :laugh:

CasperO

"You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts."

Azdak

People also tend to forget that "freedom of speech" does NOT mean 'freedom from accountability for your speech". You see that all the time in debates. Someone says something that gets them in trouble and those who agree with what they said instantly default to the "it's a free country--he/she was just exercising their right of free speech".

Now, on the flip side (this is one of the great things about being a Libra--I can switch sides in the middle of an argument), I also think that there is way too much intrusiveness these days by corporations, schools, etc, into the opinions that private citizens express on their own time. Many businesses and schools seem to feel that they have the right to control your opinions 24 hours a day, whether it has anything to do with them or not.

I make the distinction this way: if I have a position in which I represent the company in public and the company is one whose business depends on marketing its products to a diverse group of people, then I have more restrictions on what I can say in public.

However, if one is not in this position, then I think your employer should have little say over your opinions.

I work in a large fitness center. The population skews older, wealthier, and more conservative (although there are a surprising number of liberals). I have to work with everyone, so I do not have the right to walk around pushing my opinions on politics, religion, the economy, etc. I don't have a problem with that and do not feel it infringes upon my "freedom" in any way. I consider it not only good business practice, but common politeness.

(Although on days when I open the center I do make sure that NONE of the 50 or so TVs on the wall or on the cardio pieces are set to Fox News. If I find them on Fox, I switch them to MSNBC just because I know it will bug the heck our of the conservatives--it's my private little joke). :devil:

KimmyEB

People also tend to forget that "freedom of speech" does NOT mean 'freedom from accountability for your speech". You see that all the time in debates. Someone says something that gets them in trouble and those who agree with what they said instantly default to the "it's a free country--he/she was just exercising their right of free speech".

Now, on the flip side (this is one of the great things about being a Libra--I can switch sides in the middle of an argument), I also think that there is way too much intrusiveness these days by corporations, schools, etc, into the opinions that private citizens express on their own time. Many businesses and schools seem to feel that they have the right to control your opinions 24 hours a day, whether it has anything to do with them or not.

I make the distinction this way: if I have a position in which I represent the company in public and the company is one whose business depends on marketing its products to a diverse group of people, then I have more restrictions on what I can say in public.

However, if one is not in this position, then I think your employer should have little say over your opinions.

I work in a large fitness center. The population skews older, wealthier, and more conservative (although there are a surprising number of liberals). I have to work with everyone, so I do not have the right to walk around pushing my opinions on politics, religion, the economy, etc. I don't have a problem with that and do not feel it infringes upon my "freedom" in any way. I consider it not only good business practice, but common politeness.

(Although on days when I open the center I do make sure that NONE of the 50 or so TVs on the wall or on the cardio pieces are set to Fox News. If I find them on Fox, I switch them to MSNBC just because I know it will bug the heck our of the conservatives--it's my private little joke). :devil:

Ahh...this was a discussion I had on a conference call for school with last month, actually. I'm majoring in education, and want to be a teacher...we were basically advised to keep as "non confrontational" as possible...don't post, say, do anything that can be seen as remotely questionable, because what you do and say outside the work place is also judged. To what extent, I don't know...but I have known some teachers who've gotten reprimanded or dismissed over some very stupid stuff.

CasperO

I just try to avoid the political stuff mostly. No matter what you say, you're pretty much guaranteed to piss off 1/3 of the population. And the 1/3 I'll piss off tends to have no sense of humor. Hehehe...