Little LOTR quiz

tappae

So, I just started re-reading LOTR (I'm a little frightened to take my godzilla of a toddler to the library to find something new) and I have a question for any of y'all that have read it:

Who is the most powerful character in LOTR and why?

ScottyNoHotty

I would say Cirdan the shipwright just because he was the oldest of the elves, having been around since the first age. He battled Morkoth, Then received Narya from either Gil-Galad or Celebrimbor, and wore it until giving it to Mithrandir. He also was entrusted with a palantir.

tappae

I think that's an excellent answer, but not the one I'm thinking of.

If you want to talk longevity, there are six or seven characters that predate all of the elves. There are also other elves that have been around for about as long. Galadriel crossed the ice fields with the Noldor exile and is called the greatest of the elves still in Middle Earth. Glorfindel was a warrior in Gondolin in the first age and killed a balrog (he also drove the nine riders into the flood, which seems pretty powerful). On the other hand, the wizards came to Middle Earth more recently than the elves, but that doesn't diminish their power. There are "higher" beings than the elves. There are at least five Maiar mentioned in the book.

bathsheba_c

Dang, I need to read the books again. Should I read them in English, or should I read my new, spiffy, ginormous Hebrew translation (which they decided to make 1 volume)?

Thesoundofwolf

Tom Bombadil

Man was totally chill. Gave the hobbits that first push and just. Yeah. Good things, good vibes from that quirky character.

Goldberry's waiting.

tappae

Tom Bombadil

Man was totally chill. Gave the hobbits that first push and just. Yeah. Good things, good vibes from that quirky character.

Goldberry's waiting.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!

The five mentioned that are definitely Maiar are Sauron, the balrog and the three wizards (there are more wizards and balrogs and other maiar around, but they're not mentioned). Goldberry may be of the maiar. I mean, she's the "river daughter" so probably some kind of water spirit. Tom doesn't seem to be maiar or valar, but he does claim to predate creation, so he would almost have to be. Of these, I think we can dismiss Goldberry and Radagast right away. I'm sure they both have interesting powers dealing with nature, but not "powerful" in the context of the story. The balrog was defeated by Gandalf, who was defeated (captured) by Saruman. Gandalf was afraid of the ring and the power it would have over him. Saruman wanted it for himself, so he was already under its power. Of the maiar in the story, Sauron seems to be the most powerful, but so much of his power is bound up in the ring that he can't survive its destruction.

Enter Tom Bombadil. The ring has no power over him. He has power over it. He predates creation. He's called "the master." His existence seems to be self-evident. Although Tolkien has denied this, I believe him to be some sort of incarnation of Eru Iluvatar. After all, when the action is over, Gandalf goes to Bombadil to debrief.

LordBezoar

I always took it that Tom was a Valar--and as such a creation of the Maiar would have no real hold on him. There is a good argument that he is Aule the Smith and that Goldberry is actually his wife, Yavanna.

This would also explain the Gandalf "debrief" and why the Ring not only has no power over him but also how he could have power over the Ring. Since both Sauron and Sauruman were his servants before turning to evil.

tappae

I always took it that Tom was a Valar--and as such a creation of the Maiar would have no real hold on him. There is a good argument that he is Aule the Smith and that Goldberry is actually his wife, Yavanna.

This would also explain the Gandalf "debrief" and why the Ring not only has no power over him but also how he could have power over the Ring. Since both Sauron and Sauruman were his servants before turning to evil.

That's an interesting theory; certainly possible. Tom doesn't seem too interested in making things, though, and seems to have more of a connection to plants and animals than to the earth. Also, Goldenberry is clearly associated with water. I suppose that Lorien and Este are another possibility, since they're associated with gardens and fountains, but there's no indication that they were in Middle Earth (as opposed to Valinor). It is interesting to note that Frodo had some sort of prophetic dreams while at Tom's house, though.

Another theory I've heard is that Bombadil is somehow the personification of Middle Earth itself.

LordBezoar

I have heard that one as well. All in all, I think that it was this essay (http://www.cas.unt.edu/~hargrove/bombadil.html) that solidified my thoughts that Tom is a Valar.

It is a really great read, but a good chunk of his case is made here:

When one carefully considers the special moral characteristics of Aule, the similarities to Tom are most striking and revealing. Like Aule, Tom is not possessive. Although his power to dominate and control is always stressed - he is the master - he does not interfere with other beings except when they directly interfere with him. Although he has the power to possess whatever he may desire, he does not chose to possess or own the forest. As Goldberry explains, the animals, plants, and natural objects of the forest are all allowed to belong to themselves. This distain for ownership or possession is the reason why Tom is able to handle the ring without fear. Ultimately, all other powerful beings encountered in the trilogy, unless they are already fallen, are afraid to touch the ring lest the desire to possess it should turn them to evil. Since Tom does not want to own or possess anything, it has no power over him. We simply see his interest, curiosity, and delight as he studies the craftmanship involved in its making. Indeed, Tom approaches the ring critically, almost with scorn. While all others refer to the ring as precious in a reverent sense, Tom's use of the word, "Show me the precious ring" (Rings, 1:144), suggests irony or doubt about its value. Since the lack of desire to possess or own was extremely rare among the Valar and the beings of Middle-earth, no over Vala is said to exhibit this moral trait, it seems reasonable to assume that Tom and Aule are the same person.