Selling Parks to Turn a Profit?

cessnaholly

It doesn't appear to be on the up and up. Here's the article. What do you think?

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/11/12129661-pledges-forgotten-local-governments-repurpose-federally-funded-parks&lite

macpatti

Well, I suppose I'd rather have states put more money into education than parks.

nehtaeh

Revenues are declining for various reasons. To get a balanced budget you need to cut costs or increase revenue. It doesn't seem that the lawmakers want to try the things that will increase revenue; jobs, increased taxes, stimulus - so they have to cut costs. There are many areas that costs are being cut but they can only go so far.

KaleidoscopeEyes1056

Ways for America to save/obtain money:
-legalize Marijuana and not have to support people in the prison system that harmed nobody but themselves
-cut defense budget. $700 billion is a bit extreme, considering the next highest is China with $143 billion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/apr/17/military-spending-countries-list (I wasn't too lazy to provide a citation.)
-tax the rich and the corporations. Sorry to burst anybody's bubble, but corporations are not people
-end the war in Iraq/war on terrorism. Terrorism will never stop. Once again, sorry if any bubbles got burst.

Just my two cents.

nehtaeh

Ways for America to save/obtain money:
-legalize Marijuana and not have to support people in the prison system that harmed nobody but themselves
-cut defense budget. $700 billion is a bit extreme, considering the next highest is China with $143 billion
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/apr/17/military-spending-countries-list (I wasn't too lazy to provide a citation.)
-tax the rich and the corporations. Sorry to burst anybody's bubble, but corporations are not people
-end the war in Iraq/war on terrorism. Terrorism will never stop. Once again, sorry if any bubbles got burst.

Just my two cents.

Agreed on all of it. :flowerforyou:

LastSixtySix

The parks are a heritage we leave to the next generation. Point in fact, England - there are no more natural lands or wild animals in England. What "nature" is there is preserved, set aside, and caged. Sad as that is, it is better than selling it! Hear the words of an imperfect but visionary American president:

"Optimism is a good characteristic, but if carried to an excess, it becomes foolishness. We are prone to speak of the resources of this country as inexhaustible; this is not so."
Seventh Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1907

"We of an older generation can get along with what we have, though with growing hardship; but in your full manhood and womanhood you will want what nature once so bountifully supplied and man so thoughtlessly destroyed; and because of that want you will reproach us, not for what we have used, but for what we have wasted...So any nation which in its youth lives only for the day, reaps without sowing, and consumes without husbanding, must expect the penalty of the prodigal whose labor could with difficulty find him the bare means of life."
"Arbor Day - A Message to the School-Children of the United States" April 15, 1907

Thank you, Teddy!

-Debra

iam_thatdude

Sell everything & privatize 70% of all govt functions.

LastSixtySix

Sell everything & privatize 70% of all govt functions.

Move from indirect facism to direct facism in one fell swoop? Ah, I see, Halliburton can run everything.

Brilliant - then we have absolutely NO restraint on limited natural and human resources ('Soylent Green' anyone?). The vigilant and hard becomes impossible.

The comment quoted sounds like bumper sticker policy - it is dangerous and wrong.

-Debra

fbmandy55

Sell everything & privatize 70% of all govt functions.

Yep Indiana's Governor did that with our toll roads. He LEASED the toll roads to a private company for one and managed to turn a $700 million deficit into a surplus of $370 million within a year and has built up a huge rainy day fund.. Of course a vast a majority of Hoosiers hate him because of the cuts he made but I'm a believer that when things are tight, you have to prioritize.

I wouldn't mind the parks being sold to be run by private groups, hopefully as long as they remain parks.

nehtaeh

Michigan is far from in danger of using up all our natural space.

The problem I see with the policy of "when things are tight, you have to prioritize" is that the priorities are set by people who are corrupt, have outside interests, and simply don't know enough to make the right decisions. There is A LOT of waste in gov't spending. I'd much rather start there than our kid educations, or putting prisoners on the streets. Legislators like to make rules for everyone else but they rarely institute them for themselves. They make sure they get their pay, insurance, and retirement and want to demonize everyone else.

fbmandy55

Michigan is far from in danger of using up all our natural space.

The problem I see with the policy of "when things are tight, you have to prioritize" is that the priorities are set by people who are corrupt, have outside interests, and simply don't know enough to make the right decisions. There is A LOT of waste in gov't spending. I'd much rather start there than our kid educations, or putting prisoners on the streets. Legislators like to make rules for everyone else but they rarely institute them for themselves. They make sure they get their pay, insurance, and retirement and want to demonize everyone else.

I am a rare minority in not being upset about cuts to education. From what I have seen in our local schools, the waste and mismanagement of funds is disturbing. Why does a public school of 1200 kids need to have 5 principals making $100,000+ a school year? Why are school purchasing ipads and laptops for each individual student if they don't have money to pay teachers? Why are schools buying hybrid busses if they are so hard up for money. Let alone we have the teacher's unions here who are saying that teachers who make $50k a year within their first 5 years are struggling to survive. I'm talking people in their mid twenties, making almost double what I make, plus they get how many weeks off a year and think they are being treated unfairly?

I don't see how it makes sense to continue to expect taxpayers to shell out more and more money into something that is wasteful beyond control. Cut their allowance and make them work within their means. The only people who think their funds are unreasonable are the teacher's unions and the people who look at it simply as "the government hates kids" and not the real issue beneath.

LastSixtySix

Sell everything & privatize 70% of all govt functions.

Yep Indiana's Governor did that with our toll roads. He LEASED the toll roads to a private company for one and managed to turn a $700 million deficit into a surplus of $370 million within a year and has built up a huge rainy day fund.. Of course a vast a majority of Hoosiers hate him because of the cuts he made but I'm a believer that when things are tight, you have to prioritize.

I wouldn't mind the parks being sold to be run by private groups, hopefully as long as they remain parks.

What, fbmandy55, does man-made toll roads have to do with natural, wild park areas reserved and protected by local, state, and federal government?!!???

I care very little about how municipalities choose to divvy up their creations compared to the sense of betrayal and rape experienced when a park or preserve is commercialized for man's own pocketbook, which is about as secure and permanent a structure as jello through a sieve.. Let me guess: you live a sheltered life and if you ever were camping it was a horrible experience and you are still cleaning the dirt and worm guts out of the nostrils?

Since you are such a believer in prioritizing when things (that is, human created financial systems and greed) are tight and scarce, think about how the Earth might priortize her shrinking capacities caused by humans.

-Debra

fbmandy55

Sell everything & privatize 70% of all govt functions.

Yep Indiana's Governor did that with our toll roads. He LEASED the toll roads to a private company for one and managed to turn a $700 million deficit into a surplus of $370 million within a year and has built up a huge rainy day fund.. Of course a vast a majority of Hoosiers hate him because of the cuts he made but I'm a believer that when things are tight, you have to prioritize.

I wouldn't mind the parks being sold to be run by private groups, hopefully as long as they remain parks.

What, fbmandy55, does man-made toll roads have to do with natural, wild park areas reserved and protected by local, state, and federal government?!!???

I care very little about how municipalities choose to divvy up their creations compared to the sense of betrayal and rape experienced when a park or preserve is commercialized for man's own pocketbook, which is about as secure and permanent a structure as jello through a sieve.. Let me guess: you live a sheltered life and if you ever were camping it was a horrible experience and you are still cleaning the dirt and worm guts out of the nostrils?

Since you are such a believer in prioritizing when things (that is, human created financial systems and greed) are tight and scarce, think about how the Earth might priortize her shrinking capacities caused by humans.

-Debra

My point was that private companys CAN take over and maintain state owned property while the state can benefit from such a transaction. IF you think the government is better at maintaining, you are delusional. The government has a larger deficit than any private corporation, that says tons about their ability to manage things that can easily be done privately. I have seen a huge trend of non-profit and some for-profit groups doing great things for wildlife, natural habitats and communities.

I grew up camping. Usually, 1-2 times a month. I love the outdoors and I love nature. I spend several days a month on trails and along our local river. I participate in an annual clean-up of our river called 'de-trash' the Wabash. I would rather spend hours upon hours viewing beautiful scenery across the country than taking a plane for a quick trip. You assumptions are far from accurate.

I am not, however, a liberal, tree-hugging mental case who is going to bomb a building to save a tree. I believe global warming propaganda is scam that is makimg many powerful people rich. Global warming has been a cycle for centuries and it started happening far before humans overran the earth.

nehtaeh

Michigan is far from in danger of using up all our natural space.

The problem I see with the policy of "when things are tight, you have to prioritize" is that the priorities are set by people who are corrupt, have outside interests, and simply don't know enough to make the right decisions. There is A LOT of waste in gov't spending. I'd much rather start there than our kid educations, or putting prisoners on the streets. Legislators like to make rules for everyone else but they rarely institute them for themselves. They make sure they get their pay, insurance, and retirement and want to demonize everyone else.

I am a rare minority in not being upset about cuts to education. From what I have seen in our local schools, the waste and mismanagement of funds is disturbing. Why does a public school of 1200 kids need to have 5 principals making $100,000+ a school year? Why are school purchasing ipads and laptops for each individual student if they don't have money to pay teachers? Why are schools buying hybrid busses if they are so hard up for money. Let alone we have the teacher's unions here who are saying that teachers who make $50k a year within their first 5 years are struggling to survive. I'm talking people in their mid twenties, making almost double what I make, plus they get how many weeks off a year and think they are being treated unfairly?

I don't see how it makes sense to continue to expect taxpayers to shell out more and more money into something that is wasteful beyond control. Cut their allowance and make them work within their means. The only people who think their funds are unreasonable are the teacher's unions and the people who look at it simply as "the government hates kids" and not the real issue beneath.

I'd like to live where you are if your schools get those things. I don't think all teachers should start out making $50K a year, but if you put in your time and are a good teacher - why do you have to take a cut because legislators need their money or businesses need their cuts? If the sacrifice was shared as much as they say then everyone would feel it, not just those in non-revenue producing departments.

KaleidoscopeEyes1056

Michigan is far from in danger of using up all our natural space.

The problem I see with the policy of "when things are tight, you have to prioritize" is that the priorities are set by people who are corrupt, have outside interests, and simply don't know enough to make the right decisions. There is A LOT of waste in gov't spending. I'd much rather start there than our kid educations, or putting prisoners on the streets. Legislators like to make rules for everyone else but they rarely institute them for themselves. They make sure they get their pay, insurance, and retirement and want to demonize everyone else.

I am a rare minority in not being upset about cuts to education. From what I have seen in our local schools, the waste and mismanagement of funds is disturbing. Why does a public school of 1200 kids need to have 5 principals making $100,000+ a school year? Why are school purchasing ipads and laptops for each individual student if they don't have money to pay teachers? Why are schools buying hybrid busses if they are so hard up for money. Let alone we have the teacher's unions here who are saying that teachers who make $50k a year within their first 5 years are struggling to survive. I'm talking people in their mid twenties, making almost double what I make, plus they get how many weeks off a year and think they are being treated unfairly?

I don't see how it makes sense to continue to expect taxpayers to shell out more and more money into something that is wasteful beyond control. Cut their allowance and make them work within their means. The only people who think their funds are unreasonable are the teacher's unions and the people who look at it simply as "the government hates kids" and not the real issue beneath.

I'd like to live where you are if your schools get those things. I don't think all teachers should start out making $50K a year, but if you put in your time and are a good teacher - why do you have to take a cut because legislators need their money or businesses need their cuts? If the sacrifice was shared as much as they say then everyone would feel it, not just those in non-revenue producing departments.

As an education major, I would like to know where the figure 50k came from? Teachers are lucky to get 30. And, as for the time off in the summer, it's to set up a schedule for the class next year, take training courses for the teachers who teach AP subjects and find and read the text books that will be used. Also, if you include in that all the time that the teacher puts in AFTER school, 50k seems like a reasonable amount of money. You don't just go to the school at 8 and leave at 2-3. Teachers are usually involved in academic clubs, sports, National Honor Society, they have to grade papers, grade essays, report the grades, calculate letter grades, etc.

Yes, I agree that the principal should be paid around the same wages as the teachers, as they do not have to do the same amount of work, and there should only be one, maybe with a vice principal. However, there are other places to get money. Like, ya know, making rich CEO's pay their fair share of taxes. And the other things I suggested.

LastSixtySix

Sell everything & privatize 70% of all govt functions.

Yep Indiana's Governor did that with our toll roads. He LEASED the toll roads to a private company for one and managed to turn a $700 million deficit into a surplus of $370 million within a year and has built up a huge rainy day fund.. Of course a vast a majority of Hoosiers hate him because of the cuts he made but I'm a believer that when things are tight, you have to prioritize.

I wouldn't mind the parks being sold to be run by private groups, hopefully as long as they remain parks.

What, fbmandy55, does man-made toll roads have to do with natural, wild park areas reserved and protected by local, state, and federal government?!!???

I care very little about how municipalities choose to divvy up their creations compared to the sense of betrayal and rape experienced when a park or preserve is commercialized for man's own pocketbook, which is about as secure and permanent a structure as jello through a sieve.. Let me guess: you live a sheltered life and if you ever were camping it was a horrible experience and you are still cleaning the dirt and worm guts out of the nostrils?

Since you are such a believer in prioritizing when things (that is, human created financial systems and greed) are tight and scarce, think about how the Earth might priortize her shrinking capacities caused by humans.

-Debra

My point was that private companys CAN take over and maintain state owned property while the state can benefit from such a transaction. IF you think the government is better at maintaining, you are delusional. The government has a larger deficit than any private corporation, that says tons about their ability to manage things that can easily be done privately. I have seen a huge trend of non-profit and some for-profit groups doing great things for wildlife, natural habitats and communities.

I grew up camping. Usually, 1-2 times a month. I love the outdoors and I love nature. I spend several days a month on trails and along our local river. I participate in an annual clean-up of our river called 'de-trash' the Wabash. I would rather spend hours upon hours viewing beautiful scenery across the country than taking a plane for a quick trip. You assumptions are far from accurate.

I am not, however, a liberal, tree-hugging mental case who is going to bomb a building to save a tree. I believe global warming propaganda is scam that is makimg many powerful people rich. Global warming has been a cycle for centuries and it started happening far before humans overran the earth.

Of course private companies CAN take over anything they are allowed. It is even argued that they wag the dog of Western countries anyway. However, should they??? You think they should and you give no good reasons but profit and money resources, as if those things are the most important or even the most real things in life. NEWS FLASH - they are NOT! When this economic system fails (and everything comes to an end sooner or later), what will people like you be left with? The government is the only thing we have to best defend and conserve our parks and wild lands from rapacious greed and so-called development.

You want an example of how a company would manage a national treasure? Look at Yosemite in California. You have a lot of ideas and ideology and common cents but very little common sense.

-Debra

iam_thatdude

Sell everything & privatize 70% of all govt functions.

Yep Indiana's Governor did that with our toll roads. He LEASED the toll roads to a private company for one and managed to turn a $700 million deficit into a surplus of $370 million within a year and has built up a huge rainy day fund.. Of course a vast a majority of Hoosiers hate him because of the cuts he made but I'm a believer that when things are tight, you have to prioritize.

I wouldn't mind the parks being sold to be run by private groups, hopefully as long as they remain parks.

What, fbmandy55, does man-made toll roads have to do with natural, wild park areas reserved and protected by local, state, and federal government?!!???

I care very little about how municipalities choose to divvy up their creations compared to the sense of betrayal and rape experienced when a park or preserve is commercialized for man's own pocketbook, which is about as secure and permanent a structure as jello through a sieve.. Let me guess: you live a sheltered life and if you ever were camping it was a horrible experience and you are still cleaning the dirt and worm guts out of the nostrils?

Since you are such a believer in prioritizing when things (that is, human created financial systems and greed) are tight and scarce, think about how the Earth might priortize her shrinking capacities caused by humans.

-Debra

The earth? Lol ok....u believe haliburton is evil and the rarth is going to exact revenge

SwannySez

Psst, keep it on the DL, but I got the Earth totally distracted over here, yo. She's a total sub and I got her tied in a sling tongue-ticklin' my taint, so yer good to get on with what ya got to get on with. Beware her revenge, though, ooooooooooo!

BondBomb

Sell everything & privatize 70% of all govt functions.

Yep Indiana's Governor did that with our toll roads. He LEASED the toll roads to a private company for one and managed to turn a $700 million deficit into a surplus of $370 million within a year and has built up a huge rainy day fund.. Of course a vast a majority of Hoosiers hate him because of the cuts he made but I'm a believer that when things are tight, you have to prioritize.

I wouldn't mind the parks being sold to be run by private groups, hopefully as long as they remain parks.

What, fbmandy55, does man-made toll roads have to do with natural, wild park areas reserved and protected by local, state, and federal government?!!???

I care very little about how municipalities choose to divvy up their creations compared to the sense of betrayal and rape experienced when a park or preserve is commercialized for man's own pocketbook, which is about as secure and permanent a structure as jello through a sieve.. Let me guess: you live a sheltered life and if you ever were camping it was a horrible experience and you are still cleaning the dirt and worm guts out of the nostrils?

Since you are such a believer in prioritizing when things (that is, human created financial systems and greed) are tight and scarce, think about how the Earth might priortize her shrinking capacities caused by humans.

-Debra

My point was that private companys CAN take over and maintain state owned property while the state can benefit from such a transaction. IF you think the government is better at maintaining, you are delusional. The government has a larger deficit than any private corporation, that says tons about their ability to manage things that can easily be done privately. I have seen a huge trend of non-profit and some for-profit groups doing great things for wildlife, natural habitats and communities.

I grew up camping. Usually, 1-2 times a month. I love the outdoors and I love nature. I spend several days a month on trails and along our local river. I participate in an annual clean-up of our river called 'de-trash' the Wabash. I would rather spend hours upon hours viewing beautiful scenery across the country than taking a plane for a quick trip. You assumptions are far from accurate.

I am not, however, a liberal, tree-hugging mental case who is going to bomb a building to save a tree. I believe global warming propaganda is scam that is makimg many powerful people rich. Global warming has been a cycle for centuries and it started happening far before humans overran the earth.

Of course private companies CAN take over anything they are allowed. It is even argued that they wag the dog of Western countries anyway. However, should they??? You think they should and you give no good reasons but profit and money resources, as if those things are the most important or even the most real things in life. NEWS FLASH - they are NOT! When this economic system fails (and everything comes to an end sooner or later), what will people like you be left with? The government is the only thing we have to best defend and conserve our parks and wild lands from rapacious greed and so-called development.

You want an example of how a company would manage a national treasure? Look at Yosemite in California. You have a lot of ideas and ideology and common cents but very little common sense.

-Debra

I don't mind a good debate but why are you personally attacking another poster? If you don't like her ideas that fine. Thats why we are here. But saying she has 'little common sense' and a 'sheltered life' is over the top. Pull yourself together. That is not how a constructive debate works.

fbmandy55

Sell everything & privatize 70% of all govt functions.

Yep Indiana's Governor did that with our toll roads. He LEASED the toll roads to a private company for one and managed to turn a $700 million deficit into a surplus of $370 million within a year and has built up a huge rainy day fund.. Of course a vast a majority of Hoosiers hate him because of the cuts he made but I'm a believer that when things are tight, you have to prioritize.

I wouldn't mind the parks being sold to be run by private groups, hopefully as long as they remain parks.

What, fbmandy55, does man-made toll roads have to do with natural, wild park areas reserved and protected by local, state, and federal government?!!???

I care very little about how municipalities choose to divvy up their creations compared to the sense of betrayal and rape experienced when a park or preserve is commercialized for man's own pocketbook, which is about as secure and permanent a structure as jello through a sieve.. Let me guess: you live a sheltered life and if you ever were camping it was a horrible experience and you are still cleaning the dirt and worm guts out of the nostrils?

Since you are such a believer in prioritizing when things (that is, human created financial systems and greed) are tight and scarce, think about how the Earth might priortize her shrinking capacities caused by humans.

-Debra

My point was that private companys CAN take over and maintain state owned property while the state can benefit from such a transaction. IF you think the government is better at maintaining, you are delusional. The government has a larger deficit than any private corporation, that says tons about their ability to manage things that can easily be done privately. I have seen a huge trend of non-profit and some for-profit groups doing great things for wildlife, natural habitats and communities.

I grew up camping. Usually, 1-2 times a month. I love the outdoors and I love nature. I spend several days a month on trails and along our local river. I participate in an annual clean-up of our river called 'de-trash' the Wabash. I would rather spend hours upon hours viewing beautiful scenery across the country than taking a plane for a quick trip. You assumptions are far from accurate.

I am not, however, a liberal, tree-hugging mental case who is going to bomb a building to save a tree. I believe global warming propaganda is scam that is makimg many powerful people rich. Global warming has been a cycle for centuries and it started happening far before humans overran the earth.

Of course private companies CAN take over anything they are allowed. It is even argued that they wag the dog of Western countries anyway. However, should they??? You think they should and you give no good reasons but profit and money resources, as if those things are the most important or even the most real things in life. NEWS FLASH - they are NOT! When this economic system fails (and everything comes to an end sooner or later), what will people like you be left with? The government is the only thing we have to best defend and conserve our parks and wild lands from rapacious greed and so-called development.

You want an example of how a company would manage a national treasure? Look at Yosemite in California. You have a lot of ideas and ideology and common cents but very little common sense.

-Debra

I don't mind a good debate but why are you personally attacking another poster? If you don't like her ideas that fine. Thats why we are here. But saying she has 'little common sense' and a 'sheltered life' is over the top. Pull yourself together. That is not how a constructive debate works.

BB, people attack like that when they are trying to ram THEIR opinion down someone's throat rather than have a actually debate or compare opinions.