One language in the US

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Replies

  • summertime_girl
    summertime_girl Posts: 3,945 Member
    What to know something else that might tick you off, I have seen a couple of business' accepting Mexican Pesos! Yep!

    Why would that make anyone upset? The business is doing the smart thing, getting paid. It's simple to go to the bank and exchange. And of course, travel outside the US, and you'll have a hard time finding a place that won't accept dollars.
  • Turtlehurdle
    Turtlehurdle Posts: 412
    What to know something else that might tick you off, I have seen a couple of business' accepting Mexican Pesos! Yep!

    Why would that make anyone upset? The business is doing the smart thing, getting paid. It's simple to go to the bank and exchange. And of course, travel outside the US, and you'll have a hard time finding a place that won't accept dollars.

    I was kidding about making him upset with that.

    Oh they will accept dollars for sure! The major issue I have run into (mostly in Asia) is that they won't accept bent or torn dollar bills. Drives me insane!
  • dragonbait0126
    dragonbait0126 Posts: 568 Member
    You know what REALLY annoys me? People whose native lagnauge is English but they can't speak it. That bothers me more than a person moving to this country and not learning English.
  • jenbit
    jenbit Posts: 4,252 Member
    Ok so I live in Miami which means that there are 3 main languages down here. English ,spanish and creole. Now what I have noticed is the younger (under 50) people are willing to learn more than one language however alot of the older generations refuse to learn a second language. I am dominican and white. I speak english and spanish. However because I look white alot of people assume I can only speak english.I have had older people lecture me on the importance of knowing a second language. Down here if you cant speak english and atleast 1 other language good luck trying to get a decent job.
  • Laces_0ut
    Laces_0ut Posts: 3,750 Member
    i dont have a problem with a business that requires you to speak another language. they think thats best for their bottom line.

    but i do see how it can be frustrating to be told no because of that.
  • Windchild
    Windchild Posts: 129 Member
    Down here if you cant speak english and atleast 1 other language good luck trying to get a decent job.

    This kind of irritates me just a little bit. I have TRIED to learn Spanish. I have taken FOUR years of Spanish, two in high school and two in college. My business has Rosetta Stone in Spanish for everyone. I've been working with it for a year now. I still cannot speak it to save my life. I can read a little bit, and I can understand some spoken Spanish, as long as the speaker is not speaking too fast. I simply can't respond. :cry:
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Yes, we have always been a diverse nation. However, historically, immigrants have learned to speak English. My great-grandmother never went to school, was illiterate and spoke Italian when she came to the US and she learned English.

    It's important for a cohesive, functioning society that the people who live in it can communicate with each other. And since we have immigrants from every nation on Earth, is it easier to choose one language and we all learn it and speak it or to have every American learn the language of every immigrant?

    I'm certainly not against people being able to speak many languages. I'm all for it, in fact. But I do think immigrants should learn English and I would not be against making it the official language.

    What makes you think they aren't? Other than anecdotal evidence?

    I think we tend to look more positively at what we consider the "good old days" of proper European immigrants and assume that their patterns of assimilation and English adoption, their desires to become "American" were far superior to immigrants arriving today, especially Latinos.

    There might be some valid reasons for this thinking. 19th century european immigrants came from longer distances and there were huge barriers to communication. So they may have tended to view coming here as more of a complete break with their past. Because of the closer proximity of the US to the source of many immigrants now, there might be more movement back and forth, certainly more communication. I think that since the 1960s, there has been a huge increase in the appreciation of diversity and diverse cultures and more people of all backgrounds are likely to preserve more of their cultural heritage.

    But those immigrants didn't jump off the boat and start speaking English either. The same conditions--living closely together in more homogenous ethnic enclaves--led to many of them preferring their native languages for many years. I grew up in Cincinnati, which celebrates its German heritage. A story is told frequently about the area north of downtown, known as "over the Rhine". In the late 19th century, a man appeared in court who spoke no English. As the story goes, the judge, both attorneys, and the court reporter all spoke German, so they solved the problem by conducting the court proceedings in German. That story has always been presented in a positive light, a celebration of the city's ethnic heritage.

    Can you imagine if the language was Spanish how that incident would be presented on Fox News or Rush Limbaugh today?

    In doing some research before writing this, I came across an interesting article written someone actually works for the Cato Institute. He cites research that disputes the idea that the "good immigrants" of the past were quicker to adopt English. Studies of German immigrants in southern Wisconsin revealed the following:
    Twenty-four percent of adults in Hustisford, 22 percent in Schleswig and 21 percent in Hamburg “reported being
    monolingual speakers of German” in the 1910 census. Wilkerson and Salmons point out why this is so striking: “This comes half a century after large-scale German immigration to many communities had ceased, with the majority of immigrants in these communities arriving before 1880.”

    I live in the Chicago area and there is no shortage of neighborhoods where English is a faint echo--Greek Town, Chinatown, Little Italy, Little Poland, Ukrainian Village, and lots more. I have dealt with numerous Polish cleaning services in which only one person, at most, spoke any English at all (and probably had the only green card, too).

    The other question is: are Latino immigrants less likely to learn English than past immigrants? Here, again, the data would suggest that their experience is typical:
    Do immigrants want to learn English? Confronted with phone prompts to press “1” for English or “2” for Spanish and
    speaking with service workers with sometimes poor English skills, many Americans believe the answer is “no.” However, the
    data suggest otherwise. In the 1990 census only 3 percent of immigrants in the country 30 years or more reported not peaking English well, according to the National Research Council’s The New Americans. 1 Assimilation does occur, but it takes time.
    Snapshots of English language ability that include many newly arrived immigrants can create a skewed portrait that masks progress made by individual immigrants over the years.2 Moreover, data that include illegal immigrants can also lead to a misleading impression about the progress of legal immigrants, since temporary migrants are less likely to invest the time and energy in the difficult long-term process of learning English.The story is quite positive when it comes to the children of
    immigrants. According to a Pew Hispanic Center survey, 91 percent of second generation children from Hispanic immigrant families and 97percent from the third generation said they speak English very well or pretty well.3 Although some people express concern that Spanish-speaking immigrants will have children and grandchildren who speak Spanish rather than English, research shows the opposite is the case. The children and grandchildren lose their parents’ native tongue as they grow up. Frank Bean and Ruben Rumbaut (University of California, Irvine) and Douglas Massey (Princeton University) found that “although the generational life expectancy of Spanish is greater among Mexicans in Southern California than other groups, its demise is all but assured by the third generation.” 4 The research runs counter to the fear that immigrant parents
    are not encouraging their children to learn English. “Based on an analysis of language loss over the generations, the study
    concludes that English has never been seriously threatened as the dominant language in America, nor is it under threat today,” according to Bean, Rumbaut, and Massey.

    I have read other studies that say basically the same thing: the rate of assimilation among Latino immigrants matches that of immigrants throughout our nation's history. It may be that there are more Latino immigrants today who are more recently arrived in the US, and thus give the impression that "they don't want to learn English".
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Down here if you cant speak english and atleast 1 other language good luck trying to get a decent job.

    This kind of irritates me just a little bit. I have TRIED to learn Spanish. I have taken FOUR years of Spanish, two in high school and two in college. My business has Rosetta Stone in Spanish for everyone. I've been working with it for a year now. I still cannot speak it to save my life. I can read a little bit, and I can understand some spoken Spanish, as long as the speaker is not speaking too fast. I simply can't respond. :cry:

    I cannot trill my R's. It hindered my fluency in German as well. It's a genetic defect, similar to my lack of earlobes.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    And, yes, I understand the American Indians were here first, but this is 2012, not 1492 and we have to deal with the current situation, not the past one.

    Well, the current situation is this:

    Latinos/Hispanics are the largest-growing group in the country. They are going to have a say about the whole language question. Those who want to reach out to that community, meet their needs (including communication), and show them respect are going to get their business -- in the best tradition of capitalism.

    Those who sit back and whine because they don't understand them will be the losers.
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member
    What to know something else that might tick you off, I have seen a couple of business' accepting Mexican Pesos! Yep!

    Pizza Patron! They ran a special last month: If you could place your whole order in Spanish, you got a free pizza.
  • MaraDiaz
    MaraDiaz Posts: 4,604 Member

    I really want to respond to the FB post with this: OST-GAY-HAEST GO-EE-GAH, which means "Have a nice day" in Cherokee...

    Do it! :laugh:
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    If I were going to move to another country, where the primary language was not English, I would feel obligated to do what I could to learn their language. That said, I would very much appreciate it if there were services available for me there that didn't always rely on my understanding of secondary language. And if such services did exist, it seems logical for those employees to be bilingual.

    I would say you are describing just about every country I have ever visited.

    I spent some time in Munich in 1974 and I found it hard to find someone who DIDN"T speak English, so I could practice my German.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Like I said earlier, the more languages a person can speak, the better. But I also have to point out our citizens safety issues. Police offficers and Fireman, EMTs, paramedics, and the list goes on, are not fluent in other languages. It would behoove immigrants, not only for prosperity and unity with their new nation to learn English, but would also increase their survivablity in emergency situations. My grandmother was robbed at gun point in their store while my grandfather was off to Chicago getting produce. This was before cell phones. If she didn't know english she would not have been able to communicate with the criminal (I know, a horrific example) which could have lead to a desperate person doing something out of fustration, but she would also not have been able to adequetly and quickly describe what happened to the Police without a translator, which is more important.

    You can't get produce in Indianapolis?
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    I always enjoy this quote, written in an editorial from the Washington Post in the 1890s:
    The Germans, the Irish, and others....migrate to this country, adopt its customs, acquire its language, master its institutions, and identify themselves with its destiny. The Italians never. They remain isolated from the rest of any community in which they happen to dwell. They seldom learn to speak our tongue, they have no respect for our laws or our form of government, they are always foreigners."

    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
  • adrian_indy
    adrian_indy Posts: 1,444 Member
    Like I said earlier, the more languages a person can speak, the better. But I also have to point out our citizens safety issues. Police offficers and Fireman, EMTs, paramedics, and the list goes on, are not fluent in other languages. It would behoove immigrants, not only for prosperity and unity with their new nation to learn English, but would also increase their survivablity in emergency situations. My grandmother was robbed at gun point in their store while my grandfather was off to Chicago getting produce. This was before cell phones. If she didn't know english she would not have been able to communicate with the criminal (I know, a horrific example) which could have lead to a desperate person doing something out of fustration, but she would also not have been able to adequetly and quickly describe what happened to the Police without a translator, which is more important.

    You can't get produce in Indianapolis?

    I've only lived in Indy for 5-6 years. I was originally from Northwest Indiana. Born in Gary, then Porter County, then Valpo until I went into the service. The grocery store was in Gary.
  • Laces_0ut
    Laces_0ut Posts: 3,750 Member
    What to know something else that might tick you off, I have seen a couple of business' accepting Mexican Pesos! Yep!

    Pizza Patron! They ran a special last month: If you could place your whole order in Spanish, you got a free pizza.

    are you saying there is a problem with them doing that?
  • k8blujay2
    k8blujay2 Posts: 4,941 Member
    Down here if you cant speak english and atleast 1 other language good luck trying to get a decent job.

    This kind of irritates me just a little bit. I have TRIED to learn Spanish. I have taken FOUR years of Spanish, two in high school and two in college. My business has Rosetta Stone in Spanish for everyone. I've been working with it for a year now. I still cannot speak it to save my life. I can read a little bit, and I can understand some spoken Spanish, as long as the speaker is not speaking too fast. I simply can't respond. :cry:

    I cannot trill my R's. It hindered my fluency in German as well. It's a genetic defect, similar to my lack of earlobes.

    My parents can't either... Nor could they do that hard g that comes from the back of the throat. My siblings and I can though.
  • Turtlehurdle
    Turtlehurdle Posts: 412
    What to know something else that might tick you off, I have seen a couple of business' accepting Mexican Pesos! Yep!

    Pizza Patron! They ran a special last month: If you could place your whole order in Spanish, you got a free pizza.

    Yep!!! Pizza patron!
  • kyle4jem
    kyle4jem Posts: 1,400 Member
    As a polyglot who can speak/understand a number of European languages, I cannot imagine being monolingual or even wanting to being so.

    While there is no denying that countries need an "official" language some have more than one and in fact within Europe, only two countries are officially deemed monolingual: Iceland and Portugal. Every other country/nation has an accepted minority language, e.g. in the UK Scotland has Scots and Gaelic, Wales has Welsh, England has Manx (and Cornish) and Northern Ireland has Irish. However, nowadays, you're more likely to see signs in shops and business advising that Polish is spoken and it's great that we now have produce from Eastern Europe available in supermarkets and specialist shops.

    The reason I got my foot-in-the-door at my current employer was that I spoke Dutch and then was immediately promoted once they discovered I spoke German, Swedish, French etc.

    And while I love languages, I do wonder how much public money was spent translating the DVLA website into Welsh just because the dept. is located in Swansea. Having said that, I do not begrudge public bodies their right to publish information in other minority languages where it feels it can communicate better to the wider community and help foster better integration.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    Down here if you cant speak english and atleast 1 other language good luck trying to get a decent job.

    This kind of irritates me just a little bit. I have TRIED to learn Spanish. I have taken FOUR years of Spanish, two in high school and two in college. My business has Rosetta Stone in Spanish for everyone. I've been working with it for a year now. I still cannot speak it to save my life. I can read a little bit, and I can understand some spoken Spanish, as long as the speaker is not speaking too fast. I simply can't respond. :cry:

    I'm right there with you. Four years in middle and high school, two semesters in college and just took a class through work. I can stumble my way through a basic conversation.

    Language learning (after probably age 5) is a left-brained activity and my right brain is extremely dominant. Learning a language to me is like learning advanced calculus. My brain just doesn't work that way.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    Yes, we have always been a diverse nation. However, historically, immigrants have learned to speak English. My great-grandmother never went to school, was illiterate and spoke Italian when she came to the US and she learned English.

    It's important for a cohesive, functioning society that the people who live in it can communicate with each other. And since we have immigrants from every nation on Earth, is it easier to choose one language and we all learn it and speak it or to have every American learn the language of every immigrant?

    I'm certainly not against people being able to speak many languages. I'm all for it, in fact. But I do think immigrants should learn English and I would not be against making it the official language.

    What makes you think they aren't? Other than anecdotal evidence? [/quote]

    I live in Florida and due to my job, I deal with Spanish-speaking immigrants every single day. If my personal experience is "anecdotal evidence," then fine.

    I also have a former coworker who lived in Haiti until she was I believe 9. She moved here with her mother and sister around that time. She's 25 now, so they've been here 15 years. My former coworker speaks fluent English. Her mother doesn't speak a word of English. After 15 years.

    And, you know, you make a condescending statement like that, then go on in your post to illustrate that it's actually true. Did you even think about what you were posting before you posted it?

    I have no problem with legal immigration. We have a diverse and rich culture because of it. I wouldn't want to live without Mexican food. It's awesome. But assimilation into a culture where you live is necessary. Maybe it's just too new right now and that will happen eventually, but a trip to Miami might show you that probably isn't going to happen.
  • MaraDiaz
    MaraDiaz Posts: 4,604 Member
    My personal experience with immigrants who don't speak english comes of dating one for three years. Just when and how in those 12-16 hour, 6-7 day work weeks of his do you expect an adult who has never even had a language class to master a foreign language?
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
    My personal experience with immigrants who don't speak english comes of dating one for three years. Just when and how in those 12-16 hour, 6-7 day work weeks of his do you expect an adult who has never even had a language class to master a foreign language?

    I don't know. Because, you know, no one ever did that before. Back in 1900, people only worked four hours, three days a week, right?

    And, certainly, no one ever picked up a language by living in a country every day and hearing it spoken. That most definitely never happens.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Yes, we have always been a diverse nation. However, historically, immigrants have learned to speak English. My great-grandmother never went to school, was illiterate and spoke Italian when she came to the US and she learned English.

    It's important for a cohesive, functioning society that the people who live in it can communicate with each other. And since we have immigrants from every nation on Earth, is it easier to choose one language and we all learn it and speak it or to have every American learn the language of every immigrant?

    I'm certainly not against people being able to speak many languages. I'm all for it, in fact. But I do think immigrants should learn English and I would not be against making it the official language.

    What makes you think they aren't? Other than anecdotal evidence?
    I live in Florida and due to my job, I deal with Spanish-speaking immigrants every single day. If my personal experience is "anecdotal evidence," then fine.

    I also have a former coworker who lived in Haiti until she was I believe 9. She moved here with her mother and sister around that time. She's 25 now, so they've been here 15 years. My former coworker speaks fluent English. Her mother doesn't speak a word of English. After 15 years.

    And, you know, you make a condescending statement like that, then go on in your post to illustrate that it's actually true. Did you even think about what you were posting before you posted it?

    I have no problem with legal immigration. We have a diverse and rich culture because of it. I wouldn't want to live without Mexican food. It's awesome. But assimilation into a culture where you live is necessary. Maybe it's just too new right now and that will happen eventually, but a trip to Miami might show you that probably isn't going to happen.

    Not trying to be condescending at all--just asking an honest question. You made assertions without any evidence and this is one topic where people's "personal experience" is particularly useless--whether yours or mine. I could easily counter your "evidence" with numerous examples of my own--except that it would be equally irrelevant given that it would be filtered through MY biases.

    My main point is that I think a clear double-standard often exists when people talk about Spanish-speaking immigrants compared to others who previously came to this country.

    Maybe I misread the comment, but when I read things like "immigrants should learn English" especially followed by the "official language" comment, that usually suggests that you don't think Latino immigrants are trying to learn English or trying to assimilate.

    In fact, all the research suggests that the patterns of English adoption and assimilation of Latino immigrants--and others who have come here recently--is entirely consistent with immigrant patterns that have occurred since our country was founded.

    Will there be enclaves where predominantly speaking a foreign language is going to remain common? I'm sure there are--just as there are similar communities for different ethnic groups across this nation--ironically enough, they are often advertised as tourist destinations.

    The "English needs to be made the official language" is a classic example of a solution looking for a problem, IMO.
  • MaraDiaz
    MaraDiaz Posts: 4,604 Member
    My personal experience with immigrants who don't speak english comes of dating one for three years. Just when and how in those 12-16 hour, 6-7 day work weeks of his do you expect an adult who has never even had a language class to master a foreign language?

    I don't know. Because, you know, no one ever did that before. Back in 1900, people only worked four hours, three days a week, right?

    And, certainly, no one ever picked up a language by living in a country every day and hearing it spoken. That most definitely never happens.

    As a rule, adult immigrants never became even remotely fluent. Their children did.
  • macpatti
    macpatti Posts: 4,280 Member
    And, certainly, no one ever picked up a language by living in a country every day and hearing it spoken. That most definitely never happens.
    You're assuming he's surrounded by people every day who speak English. Working immigrants in the United States can work 80 hours a week and not hear much English.
  • castadiva
    castadiva Posts: 2,016 Member

    Why would that make anyone upset? The business is doing the smart thing, getting paid. It's simple to go to the bank and exchange. And of course, travel outside the US, and you'll have a hard time finding a place that won't accept dollars.

    Er, not in the developed world! Good luck trying to pay with dollars in the UK/the Eurozone, except in certain very-upscale department stores where they're set up for multi-currency transactions (and even then, I'm not sure they'd accept cash!)...

    I'm surprised to learn that there is no 'official' language in the US (let alone that it's not English!). While I think the onus must be on the immigrant to learn the majority language in their new home, for all sorts of reasons - practical as well as in terms of integration etc - I have no problems with cities/organisations in areas with large alternative linguisitic groups providing translation services if needed to communicate with their clientele. I do, however, believe that all public signs etc should be in the majority language, with minority languages added as necessary. Street signs in Vietnamese only, for example, as mentioned by Patti, are of no use to the majority of non-Vietnamese-speakers resident in a city, and contribute to the isolation, intentional or otherwise, of a cultural community from the larger majority-language sphere. Not helpful!

    Re. the OP, as far as I'm concerned, any company can specify whatever qualifications they need their candidates to have. Fluency in another language is not solely the preserve of institutions working with immigrant communities in this era of multi-national business and effortless telecommunication. Your friend sounds like she needs to step back and gain a little perspective, rather than falling into the trap of automatic anti-immigrant sentiment. As an immigrant myself, albeit a blonde, highly-qualified, anglophone one, I, more than most, am aware of the bigotry that often festers under the guise of complaints about 'unfairness' to a local population when immigrants are perceived to be catered to. I take great pleasure in reminding people who spout off on the subject in front of me that I too am an immigrant - it's so much fun watching them splutter, backtrack and try desperately to justify their statements, whilst reassuring me 'I don't mean people like you, of course!'. Great entertainment! :wink:
  • MaraDiaz
    MaraDiaz Posts: 4,604 Member
    And, certainly, no one ever picked up a language by living in a country every day and hearing it spoken. That most definitely never happens.
    You're assuming he's surrounded by people every day who speak English. Working immigrants in the United States can work 80 hours a week and not hear much English.

    This is true, also, and many of the older immigrants I've met (30s-50s) are too bashful to practice much because of their grammar mistakes and accent.

    English is also a relatively difficult language to learn.
  • summertime_girl
    summertime_girl Posts: 3,945 Member
    Er, not in the developed world! Good luck trying to pay with dollars in the UK/the Eurozone, except in certain very-upscale department stores where they're set up for multi-currency transactions (and even then, I'm not sure they'd accept cash!)...

    Really? It's been awhile since I've traveled out of the country, but I've never had an issue before, especially in areas that are very touristy.
  • doorki
    doorki Posts: 2,576 Member
    Er, not in the developed world! Good luck trying to pay with dollars in the UK/the Eurozone, except in certain very-upscale department stores where they're set up for multi-currency transactions (and even then, I'm not sure they'd accept cash!)...

    Really? It's been awhile since I've traveled out of the country, but I've never had an issue before, especially in areas that are very touristy.

    They will take them but you will be paying an insanely high price to do it.
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