When to tell the truth??

JanieJack

So I got one of those Evan Katz emails today... and while I understand the purpose of the first date is for FUN, I kinda take issue with some of what he said, even though I know it's true. For example, that guy who told me he sleeps with the CPAP machine, hasn't camped in 10 years, hasn't done any sports or been to sporting events (all things he listed in his profile) in years totally turned me off, since right now I'm looking for fun. And all those restrictions did NOT sound FUN. But it feels dishonest to me to NOT eventually bring up wanting to have kids. Maybe not on the first date but sometime between dates 3-5, right?

What do you think?

Two prominent relationship experts - both 50-year-old women who haven't dated in 20 years - advise women to tell men what they're looking for on a first date.

They suggest that if you're serious about marriage and children, you should put that on the table from the get-go on Date 1. The theory is that you don't want to waste time - yours or his - and if your "honesty" frightens him off, he's not the right guy for you.

This is WRONG. Dead wrong. Like, it's so wrong, that I can't even fathom that my esteemed, well-intentioned colleagues would pass this off as valid advice to unsuspecting women who trust them with their lives.

Here's why:

In being "honest", you're sabotaging the dating process and making the man NOT want to get to know you better.

Not because you want to get married and have kids - he does, too! - but because you sound needy and desperate and tone-deaf to the normal conventions of first dates.

You know what a first date is for? It's for FUN. It's for you to get a better sense of me and whether I'm a solid catch, it's for me to determine if we've got some attraction and easy conversation - and it's for both of us to determine whether there's enough potential to meet for a second date. That's all.
When you introduce concepts like marriage, kids, religion, politics, money - trying to ensure that the person across from you is a good long-term prospect, you essentially turn from a pleasant, fun, likeable person ...into The Interrogator.

Men don't like the Interrogator.

Doesn't matter if The Interrogator is smart, hot, and interesting. If a man gets the sense that you're testing him for earning potential, or fathering potential, or husband potential, he's not going to feel comfortable.

Because suddenly he's not the guy who's buying your drinks and trying to make you laugh - he's being interviewed like an intern who is applying for a lifetime job at your company. Believe me, that doesn't make him like you more.

And if you want to get a second date, it's kind of important for him to like you!

Which is why it's my job to tell you to ignore this kind of well-intentioned advice. It may sound great in theory, but in practice, it falls apart.

Let me show you how.

First: Imagine you had a boyfriend you LOVED. And he told you after 8 months together that he was taking Zoloft to keep his mood up. Would you dump him? I sure hope not. [JJ’s note: If I am dating you for 8 months and discover this, I may well dump you for hiding it from me. My ex lied to me about the hereditary nature of his mother’s disease saying, “If I had told you the truth you would never have married me.”]

Now imagine that he told you that on the first date. Does he get a second date? I'd be surprised if he did.

There are things that we're willing to hear LATER in the dating process - once the ice has been broken, the foundation has been laid, and the relationship is strong.

And your desire for marriage, family, and the ability to potentially be a stay-at-home mom is something that you're better off springing once he already LIKES you and has something invested in you - not right after he learns what you do for a living.

To suggest otherwise - to encourage you to "save time" by offering your innermost desires on Date 1 - is simply irresponsible and ineffective.

For every bad man you scare away because he's not ready for a relationship, you also scare away a good one who IS ready, but wants to date a well-adjusted woman who knows better than to get so heavy on a first date.

I know it’s foolish to get heavy on a first date, but at what point do you start discussing the things that are important? If a guy REALLY wants his OWN kids, I want to know that upfront so he can move on.

MaraDiaz

On the one hand, I'm unpardonably blunt and hate to waste my time. On the other, I see the author's point. If you're good at feeling a guy out about how much he likes you and whether or not he's likely to flee at the first mention of ever after, I suppose you could play it by ear.

Also, if you're out to have fun as well as find someone serious, I guess it doesn't matter as much whether you dilly dally on figuring out which one is which.

Here is a possible answer: If you haven't agreed to see each other exclusively and you're having fun going out, he's not wasting your time, so why not skip the interrogation?

JanieJack

Here is a possible answer: If you haven't agreed to see each other exclusively and you're having fun going out, he's not wasting your time, so why not skip the interrogation?

I'm not worried about him wasting my time... if I'm out with a cute guy and we're having fun I'm totally good with that. (edit: I'm worried about ME wasting HIS time, and his money!) But my heart feels bad when the guys are actually seriously nice guys and they are actually looking for a relationship. I've actually met a couple of good guys who just seemed so brokenhearted later (maybe they were acting?) when they realized I meant it when I said I didn't want more children. I just feel like it's not nice to lead people on. And most girls they meet really are looking for relationship, settling down, etc, (edit: so they automatically assume that I do too, even if I say I don't).

So I probably shouldnt tell them I'm moving in a couple months, but it seems like that's just fair. I usually don't on the first date, lol because most are "one and dones" but I've actually got to 3+ dates with a couple, so I felt like I should let them know. They don't take it well.

MaraDiaz

Here is a possible answer: If you haven't agreed to see each other exclusively and you're having fun going out, he's not wasting your time, so why not skip the interrogation?

I'm not worried about him wasting my time... if I'm out with a cute guy and we're having fun I'm totally good with that. But my heart feels bad when the guys are actually seriously nice guys and they are actually looking for a relationship. I've actually met a couple of good guys who just seemed so brokenhearted later (maybe they were acting?) when they realized I meant it when I said I didn't want more children. I just feel like it's not nice to lead people on. And most girls they meet really are looking for relationship, settling down, etc.

So I probably shouldnt tell them I'm moving in a couple months, but it seems like that's just fair. I usually don't on the first date, lol because most are "one and dones" but I've actually got to 3+ dates with a couple, so I felt like I should let them know. They don't take it well.

That's tougher, I guess, but frankly if they haven't asked you to be exclusive or inquired into your future plans or taken your decision about more children seriously, it's not your fault when they get their hearts broken!

JanieJack

That's tougher, I guess, but frankly if they haven't asked you to be exclusive or inquired into your future plans or taken your decision about more children seriously, it's not your fault when they get their hearts broken!

True dat... I guess I'm just so used to jerks who are only after one thing... when I meet someone who really has a heart, I don't wanna be part of ruining him for other women. We ladies always complain that the guy knew we weren't "the one" but kept leading us on anyway.

And again, this isn't a first date kind of convo. But more like a 3rd or 4th date one.

AnnaPixie

I agree first dates are fun and shouldn't be heavy or serious about stuff.

As for letting people know the 'real you' I think I would let them know that by date 2 or 3! It's an individual choice what you view as 'real/important' though. Moving away - that's pretty important!! I knew a guy was moving to Spain before I agreed to meet him, but we were both still curious.........so we met.

I dont think anyone should waste anyone's time just for the hell of it.

On dating sites there's a button that you press that says 'I'm looking for a relationship/friendship/sex etc'?? Also, there's one that asks if you want kids or not?? Why not just be honest there?

So actually, these kind of questions come up before you even meet? And therefore the first date should be there for chemistry/compatibility 'fun' purposes. :flowerforyou:

PS Whats a CPAP machine????

JanieJack

On dating sites there's a button that you press that says 'I'm looking for a relationship/friendship/sex etc'?? Also, there's one that asks if you want kids or not?? Why not just be honest there?

Problem is, people aren't honest. Women say they don't want kids b/c if they say they DO want kids, the guys don't ask them out. So they lie. People say they just want friendship, but I have YET to date a man who said he just wanted friendship who really was. I'm honest, but guys are so used to women NOT being honest that they don't believe what I wrote.

A CPAP machine is what you sleep with to keep your airway open and pump oxegen in if you have sleep apnea or some related condition.

AnnaPixie

I'm honest, but guys are so used to women NOT being honest that they don't believe what I wrote.

That's their problem then. I certainly dont lie about such things and I dont expect the guy I'm meeting to have lied either. If he lied, then your conscience is clear. Let him spend his money and waste his time cos it's really not your job to interpret his BS! Come date 3 and you mention your flight out of town and he says "but I thought we were getting married" you then say "but your profile said you just wanted a friend" :noway: :laugh:

A CPAP machine is what you sleep with to keep your airway open and pump oxegen in if you have sleep apnea or some related condition.

Oh right! Actually I dated a guy with one of those. He got it out rather dramatically and self consciously one night. My reaction was for him to go on a diet if he felt so bad about it. We didnt last long after that!! :laugh:

JanieJack

Oh right! Actually I dated a guy with one of those. He got it out rather dramatically and self consciously one night. My reaction was for him to go on a diet if he felt so bad about it. We didnt last long after that!! :laugh:

What really bothered me about this guy is that he insisted that there was nothing he could do about the condition (or his weight, which was 50lbs more than his profile pic) and yet insisted on a super thin, fit girl (but I was ok because "even though you're broad shouldered I can see you're still in good shape") so I felt like he was quite hypocritical.

christine24t

In being "honest", you're sabotaging the dating process and making the man NOT want to get to know you better.

First: Imagine you had a boyfriend you LOVED. And he told you after 8 months together that he was taking Zoloft to keep his mood up. Would you dump him? I sure hope not.
Now imagine that he told you that on the first date. Does he get a second date? I'd be surprised if he did.

There are things that we're willing to hear LATER in the dating process - once the ice has been broken, the foundation has been laid, and the relationship is strong.

I agree with this completely!!

coachblt

In being "honest", you're sabotaging the dating process and making the man NOT want to get to know you better.

First: Imagine you had a boyfriend you LOVED. And he told you after 8 months together that he was taking Zoloft to keep his mood up. Would you dump him? I sure hope not.
Now imagine that he told you that on the first date. Does he get a second date? I'd be surprised if he did.

There are things that we're willing to hear LATER in the dating process - once the ice has been broken, the foundation has been laid, and the relationship is strong.

I agree with this completely!!

I completely agree with this. Tell her 8 months down the road that you are a cocaine addict and have a police record of domestic violence, along with being in prison twice, both for 4-year stints for distribution of a controlled substance.

Yeah - that's the way to keep the truth away from someone you "love". It's so much better that way!

christine24t

In being "honest", you're sabotaging the dating process and making the man NOT want to get to know you better.

First: Imagine you had a boyfriend you LOVED. And he told you after 8 months together that he was taking Zoloft to keep his mood up. Would you dump him? I sure hope not.
Now imagine that he told you that on the first date. Does he get a second date? I'd be surprised if he did.

There are things that we're willing to hear LATER in the dating process - once the ice has been broken, the foundation has been laid, and the relationship is strong.

I agree with this completely!!

I completely agree with this. Tell her 8 months down the road that you are a cocaine addict and have a police record of domestic violence, along with being in prison twice, both for 4-year stints for distribution of a controlled substance.

Yeah - that's the way to keep the truth away from someone you "love". It's so much better that way!

Okay, sure maybe big news like that isn't nice to keep. But news like "i take zoloft" or "i have a third nipple" or "i don't want to have sex until I'm married" can wait a few dates.

Natx83

First date is not the place for such information to be shared I don't think.

Laura_Suzie

hmmm interesting. I had a first date on Thursday and he told me (without me asking) about why his father left his family (I'll just say it involved crime related activity. Think "Pulp Fiction"). It was the only awkward thing he said. The rest of the conversation was fine, but I sort of wish he saved that conversation for later...

Prahasaurus

"Now that we've been dating for 8 months, I think you should know I spent 12 years in jail for murdering my last girlfriend."

;-)

SouthernSweetie74

When to tell the truth? Always. When the topic comes up...

I'm 37. I have 3 kids, and I can't have/don't want more kids, so if that is important to a man, I'd rather us not waste time. I have been on the side of being interrogated, though, and I can tell you that it does seem a bit uncomfortable.:huh: One guy not too long ago asked if I could have kids, if I would consider a tubal reversal, and if we were married, would I stay home and homeschool... all within like two or three minutes of our first conversation. Talk about a man who knows what he wants! That's okay. At least we didn't waste each other's time. NEXT.

I do agree that revealing SOME information too early is not a good idea, but I'm an open book, honest almost to a fault. If a topic comes up, or a question is asked, I'm going to tell the truth then, at that moment. However, I may not offer my whole life story on the first date!

MaraDiaz

"Now that we've been dating for 8 months, I think you should know I spent 12 years in jail for murdering my last girlfriend."

;-)

I would have already gotten your first and last name and your DOB, run the background check, and found that out by then, sweetie.

Prahasaurus

"Now that we've been dating for 8 months, I think you should know I spent 12 years in jail for murdering my last girlfriend."

;-)

I would have already gotten your first and last name and your DOB, run the background check, and found that out by then, sweetie.

I got out early by ratting on the mob, and hence I'm in the witness protection program.

MaraDiaz

"Now that we've been dating for 8 months, I think you should know I spent 12 years in jail for murdering my last girlfriend."

;-)

I would have already gotten your first and last name and your DOB, run the background check, and found that out by then, sweetie.

I got out early by ratting on the mob, and hence I'm in the witness protection program.

Drat! You win. Oh well, I suppose it's too much to hope that the feds keep an eye on their violent witnesses, too.

But hey, what are the chances of running across someone like that? I'm guessing pretty low, while running across a run of the mill murderer might not be as low as we wish it were.

AnnaPixie

"Now that we've been dating for 8 months, I think you should know I spent 12 years in jail for murdering my last girlfriend."

;-)

I would have already gotten your first and last name and your DOB, run the background check, and found that out by then, sweetie.

I got out early by ratting on the mob, and hence I'm in the witness protection program.

:laugh: :laugh: Nice one P.

But have you not read Mara's post on serial killers?? !!! :laugh:

MaraDiaz

"Now that we've been dating for 8 months, I think you should know I spent 12 years in jail for murdering my last girlfriend."

;-)

I would have already gotten your first and last name and your DOB, run the background check, and found that out by then, sweetie.

I got out early by ratting on the mob, and hence I'm in the witness protection program.

:laugh: :laugh: Nice one P.

But have you not read Mara's post on serial killers?? !!! :laugh:

I can be light hearted about this stuff, but I have run across a convicted murderer in my online dating forays. Not to mention all those crime shows I'm always watching leave me a wee bit skittish!

AnnaPixie

"Now that we've been dating for 8 months, I think you should know I spent 12 years in jail for murdering my last girlfriend."

;-)

I would have already gotten your first and last name and your DOB, run the background check, and found that out by then, sweetie.

I got out early by ratting on the mob, and hence I'm in the witness protection program.

:laugh: :laugh: Nice one P.

But have you not read Mara's post on serial killers?? !!! :laugh:

I can be light hearted about this stuff, but I have run across a convicted murderer in my online dating forays. Not to mention all those crime shows I'm always watching leave me a wee bit skittish!

You know something that never ceases to amaze me Mara? When I see progs about women that meet/date convicted killers/felons whilst they are in jail??? OMG!! What kind of woman does that?? :huh:

MaraDiaz

"Now that we've been dating for 8 months, I think you should know I spent 12 years in jail for murdering my last girlfriend."

;-)

I would have already gotten your first and last name and your DOB, run the background check, and found that out by then, sweetie.

I got out early by ratting on the mob, and hence I'm in the witness protection program.

:laugh: :laugh: Nice one P.

But have you not read Mara's post on serial killers?? !!! :laugh:

I can be light hearted about this stuff, but I have run across a convicted murderer in my online dating forays. Not to mention all those crime shows I'm always watching leave me a wee bit skittish!

You know something that never ceases to amaze me Mara? When I see progs about women that meet/date convicted killers/felons whilst they are in jail??? OMG!! What kind of woman does that?? :huh:

I figure they're women who want to know where their men are, what they're doing, and who they're with at all times! At least he can't cheat on her when he's on prison lockdown 24 hours a day! :laugh:

Not counting the woman who helped get her now-husband and friends out of jail for murders they didn't commit, though. I think that was in Memphis? Poor kids got convicted, then were in jail for over a decade. She met him while he was on deathrow.

Carl01

Am I weird in thinking this stuff just naturally comes out in the form of friendly conversation as two people get to know each other?

To me having a "time frame" of when I say that I want to get married and have 4 kids,2 boys and 2 girls,expect that we have sex by the third date,will not have sex until married yada yada yada sort of defeats the purpose of finding out if there is a natural compatibility.

SouthernSweetie74

Am I weird in thinking this stuff just naturally comes out in the form of friendly conversation as two people get to know each other?

Nope, Carl. I don't think you're weird. I think we've made the whole dating process and getting to know one another way too complicated with all the "rules."

newmein2013

Am I weird in thinking this stuff just naturally comes out in the form of friendly conversation as two people get to know each other?

Nope, Carl. I don't think you're weird. I think we've made the whole dating process and getting to know one another way too complicated with all the "rules."

Agreed. Just go with the flow. If it feels right, yay, if not, nay. I'd rather find out sooner than later and not waste MY time.

Moe4572

Janie--I think you should put it in your profile, where the normal space is , and then state it again in your profile. Then there should be no confusion, and if it does come up, you can explain it did say so in your profile. Of course, this is assuming most men READ the profile, which is a HUGE assumption in itself.

JanieJack

Janie--I think you should put it in your profile, where the normal space is , and then state it again in your profile. Then there should be no confusion, and if it does come up, you can explain it did say so in your profile. Of course, this is assuming most men READ the profile, which is a HUGE assumption in itself.

Last time I was on Match, I had something about moving and all I got were ONS offers. So, I’m not going to do that. Besides, I have a lot of travel coming up (plus son coming home, moving) so my dating days are about to dry up.

PS Lol about them reading the profiles, I don’t think most guys read them. I don’t blame them though, b/c they all pretty much say the same thing and most of it isn’t true. That’s why I stopped reading them.