Do we make it harder than it is?
SouthernSweetie74
Posts: 844
Should I text? Whose turn is it to call/text? Should I ask her/him out? Who decides where to go? Who pays? What do I wear? Should we kiss? What if he only gave me a handshake? Whose turn is it to initiate a second/third date? Am I being friendzoned? When should we have sex?
I am guilty. I admit it. I really liked this one guy that I met via online dating site in May. After a few phone conversations, we decided to meet. I bought two brand new outfits just to meet this man. Of course, I could only wear one. LOL But I was so worried about making a good impression. Well, the first date was a great success and ended with a very sweet wonderful kiss. We continued to talk. Time for a seond date. And oh my goodness... I worried about the stupidest stuff. What should I wear? If I wear shorts, what will he think of my legs? I tried on several different outfits. I fretted. I wanted him to like me so badly that I way over thought. Well, he liked me. No problem. We continued to see each other for the next month or so. Due to circumstances and distances, though, our little relationship dwindled down to nothing.
Since then, I have changed my thinking. I have talked to several men via online or friend connections. I have only met with a few in person, but when I did, I had a different mindset. I didn't go into these meetings with the thought of "I have got to do whatever it takes to make him like me." Nope. Instead, I went into these meetings thinking this, "I am going to dress the way I would if I was going out with friends, be myself, and meet this man and see if we click." So, I didn't go with my hair in a pony tail (Okay, maybe once, but it was a cute pony tail) and looking slouchy but I didn't overthink my apparel either. Unfortunately, none of these men were matches for me. That's okay.
My point? I'm getting there...
Be yourself. Don't worry so much. Let things happen naturally. When it's right, it's not that hard. I'm not saying that relationships don't take time and effort, but in my experience, I have come to realize that the best relationships I've had didn't come the hard way. I didn't worry so much about what he thought or who called or texted first... or what I should wear...
I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to look nice or do nice things... I am just saying... maybe we should just relax a little, take things in stride, not worry so much, not try to force things to work...
I am guilty. I admit it. I really liked this one guy that I met via online dating site in May. After a few phone conversations, we decided to meet. I bought two brand new outfits just to meet this man. Of course, I could only wear one. LOL But I was so worried about making a good impression. Well, the first date was a great success and ended with a very sweet wonderful kiss. We continued to talk. Time for a seond date. And oh my goodness... I worried about the stupidest stuff. What should I wear? If I wear shorts, what will he think of my legs? I tried on several different outfits. I fretted. I wanted him to like me so badly that I way over thought. Well, he liked me. No problem. We continued to see each other for the next month or so. Due to circumstances and distances, though, our little relationship dwindled down to nothing.
Since then, I have changed my thinking. I have talked to several men via online or friend connections. I have only met with a few in person, but when I did, I had a different mindset. I didn't go into these meetings with the thought of "I have got to do whatever it takes to make him like me." Nope. Instead, I went into these meetings thinking this, "I am going to dress the way I would if I was going out with friends, be myself, and meet this man and see if we click." So, I didn't go with my hair in a pony tail (Okay, maybe once, but it was a cute pony tail) and looking slouchy but I didn't overthink my apparel either. Unfortunately, none of these men were matches for me. That's okay.
My point? I'm getting there...
Be yourself. Don't worry so much. Let things happen naturally. When it's right, it's not that hard. I'm not saying that relationships don't take time and effort, but in my experience, I have come to realize that the best relationships I've had didn't come the hard way. I didn't worry so much about what he thought or who called or texted first... or what I should wear...
I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to look nice or do nice things... I am just saying... maybe we should just relax a little, take things in stride, not worry so much, not try to force things to work...
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Replies
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I agree! Gotta be ourselves! We don't have to be slobs about it, but we don't have to over-stress, either.
I will, however, likely buy something cute to wear for next Friday's singles event...... :laugh:0 -
I agree! Gotta be ourselves! We don't have to be slobs about it, but we don't have to over-stress, either.
I will, however, likely buy something cute to wear for next Friday's singles event...... :laugh:
Of course! Any excuse to go shopping!!!! :drinker:
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Yes, we do.
When things feel right, there's a great flow to all interactions. No complexities, no nonsense.0 -
I will, however, likely buy something cute to wear for next Friday's singles event...... :laugh:
That's definitely not over-thinking, and always appreciated by us dude-folk!0 -
Yes, we do.
When things feel right, there's a great flow to all interactions. No complexities, no nonsense.
I totally agree with this man0 -
Yes, we do.
When things feel right, there's a great flow to all interactions. No complexities, no nonsense.
I totally agree with this man
Me too. THIS time. 0 -
Sure but there is no changing it because emotion replaces reason and it is a faulty substitute.
However a world of Vulcan "logic" is a very cold and unsatisfying one as an alternative.
Guys should try to understand the often complicated and contradictory feelings a woman can have and ladys should try to understand that a guys bluntness does not mean they can`t love and care.0 -
Sure but there is no changing it because emotion replaces reason and it is a faulty substitute.
However a world of Vulcan "logic" is a very cold and unsatisfying one as an alternative.
Guys should try to understand the often complicated and contradictory feelings a woman can have and ladys should try to understand that a guys bluntness does not mean they can`t love and care.
:huh:
I'm not sure we're on the same page, Carl. Are you saying that women over analyze because of their emotions? Is that why it's complicated?
My point was that I think, often times, that we tend to make the whole dating game harder than what it should be. We over think situations and over analyze another's actions and words. Men and women.
But... when I meet someone with whom I feel a connection, things just seem to flow smoothly. I don't over analyze each and every action. I don't overthink my apparel. Do I try to look nice for him? Of course, I do. But I don't spend two hours trying on several different outfits... I pick one that maybe he hasn't seen before that flatters me. I do my hair. I shower. I put on deoderant and smell good stuff. I put my make-up on. I try. But I don't spend hours fretting about whether he will like me or not. I don't worry about whose turn it is to call/text. It's easy. It's natural. Our conversation just seems to flow. Maybe there are some moments of silence, but they don't seem awkward.
Or is it just me...
And I'm thinking it's easy... and the guy is sweating bullets...
LOL
I know I've been out with guys whom I thought seemed nervous before. Of course, they denied it. But seems to me, when someone is shaking, he is nervous.
Maybe this is not what you were talking about. And maybe I'm totally lost. Care to throw me a map or better yet a GPS, Carl?0 -
Sure but there is no changing it because emotion replaces reason and it is a faulty substitute.
However a world of Vulcan "logic" is a very cold and unsatisfying one as an alternative.
Guys should try to understand the often complicated and contradictory feelings a woman can have and ladys should try to understand that a guys bluntness does not mean they can`t love and care.
:huh:
I'm not sure we're on the same page, Carl. Are you saying that women over analyze because of their emotions? Is that why it's complicated?
My point was that I think, often times, that we tend to make the whole dating game harder than what it should be. We over think situations and over analyze another's actions and words. Men and women.
But... when I meet someone with whom I feel a connection, things just seem to flow smoothly. I don't over analyze each and every action. I don't overthink my apparel. Do I try to look nice for him? Of course, I do. But I don't spend two hours trying on several different outfits... I pick one that maybe he hasn't seen before that flatters me. I do my hair. I shower. I put on deoderant and smell good stuff. I put my make-up on. I try. But I don't spend hours fretting about whether he will like me or not. I don't worry about whose turn it is to call/text. It's easy. It's natural. Our conversation just seems to flow. Maybe there are some moments of silence, but they don't seem awkward.
Or is it just me...
And I'm thinking it's easy... and the guy is sweating bullets...
LOL
I know I've been out with guys whom I thought seemed nervous before. Of course, they denied it. But seems to me, when someone is shaking, he is nervous.
Maybe this is not what you were talking about. And maybe I'm totally lost. Care to throw me a map or better yet a GPS, Carl?
Just in reading what ladies say here how much they romanticize the process of dating as much as the person it is with.
To the point of falling for someone that is the opposite of what they would say they want.
We don`t grasp the importance of certain things and sometimes resent them...for example the reluctance of some ladies to take a proactive role in any form.
I don`t think men do a very good job of letting it be known that while sex is liked and can be done easier for us we also do really want more then just that out of life.
It makes a lady either shy away or try to appeal to just that facet.0 -
Just in reading what ladies say here how much they romanticize the process of dating as much as the person it is with.
To the point of falling for someone that is the opposite of what they would say they want.
I don`t think men do a very good job of letting it be known that while sex is liked and can be done easier for us we also do really want more then just that out of life.
It makes a lady either shy away or try to appeal to just that facet.
Ahh, yes...
Honestly.. it is confusing. I don't know what to think sometimes. Some men overtly express their interest sexually. Some use a bit of a filter. I sometimes tend to think the ones who use a filter are simply not interested... because I've been trained by men to think that if they are interested they will just come out and say it. On the other hand, those who are over the top and send me messages about how big his unit is tend to make me think that's all they are after. Usually, that's all those guys are after. I think some of us get confused ... especially if a man is not as aggressive as the rest. Not to say that we always prefer the more aggressive ones, but they don't leave a window of confusion open. They tell us what they think. They tell us what they want.
I dated a guy in April. All he wanted to talk about was sex. I tried to give him a chance. I told him that I wanted to wait til we got to know each other a little bit better. But we could not have a conversation without sex being brought into it. Did I believe that he wanted more? No. Why would I?
A guy I'm talking to now... we've had very intelligent conversations, made connections. He's told me that he thought I was beautiful but he never said anything out of line or inappropriate. I falsely assumed that he wasn't interested in me sexually. Because he never said anything. Well, until last night. LOL
Anyway... it is difficult. I get that.0 -
Just in reading what ladies say here how much they romanticize the process of dating as much as the person it is with.
To the point of falling for someone that is the opposite of what they would say they want.
I don`t think men do a very good job of letting it be known that while sex is liked and can be done easier for us we also do really want more then just that out of life.
It makes a lady either shy away or try to appeal to just that facet.
Ahh, yes...
Honestly.. it is confusing. I don't know what to think sometimes. Some men overtly express their interest sexually. Some use a bit of a filter. I sometimes tend to think the ones who use a filter are simply not interested... because I've been trained by men to think that if they are interested they will just come out and say it. On the other hand, those who are over the top and send me messages about how big his unit is tend to make me think that's all they are after. Usually, that's all those guys are after. I think some of us get confused ... especially if a man is not as aggressive as the rest. Not to say that we always prefer the more aggressive ones, but they don't leave a window of confusion open. They tell us what they think. They tell us what they want.
I dated a guy in April. All he wanted to talk about was sex. I tried to give him a chance. I told him that I wanted to wait til we got to know each other a little bit better. But we could not have a conversation without sex being brought into it. Did I believe that he wanted more? No. Why would I?
A guy I'm talking to now... we've had very intelligent conversations, made connections. He's told me that he thought I was beautiful but he never said anything out of line or inappropriate. I falsely assumed that he wasn't interested in me sexually. Because he never said anything. Well, until last night. LOL
Anyway... it is difficult. I get that.
Case in point,if he isn`t sexual you sense no interest,if he is too much it is uncomfortable.
No guy inherently knows the balance to exactly what buttons any individual lady needs pushed.
That is why we need some proactive input and not just coy hints.
I am not painting with a broad brush here but using what you just said (sorry :flowerforyou: ) I have to ask a question now.
Do ladies,despite what they mostly say about intimacy,really do want a guy to show or express that desire early on?
Not in a case of it being actionable for them but as another,for lack of a better word,test they have to pass.0 -
Case in point,if he isn`t sexual you sense no interest,if he is too much it is uncomfortable.
No guy inherently knows the balance to exactly what buttons any individual lady needs pushed.
That is why we need some proactive input and not just coy hints.
I am not painting with a broad brush here but using what you just said (sorry :flowerforyou: ) I have to ask a question now.
Do ladies,despite what they mostly say about intimacy,really do want a guy to show or express that desire early on?
Not in a case of it being actionable for them but as another,for lack of a better word,test they have to pass.
HI, Carl.
I cannot speak for every woman, only for myself.
Do I want to feel desired? YES. Do I want to feel sexy and beautiful and attractive when I'm with a man? YOU BET I DO.
Here's what works best for me:
A man strikes up conversation with me. While he is allowed and quite welcome, I might add, to compliment my looks, he should not invite me to his hotel room the first time we speak. He will score major brownie points if we can converse on a higher thinking level than, "You're hot." The first conversation, for me, should not contain any sexual inuendos... not that I don't like them necessarily, but I will assume he is all about sex. However, over the course of time and conversations, he is allowed to flirt and give hints that he is interested that way. Again, if he wants more than sex from me, sex should not be the only topic of our conversation. Maybe it shouldn't even enter the picture until we've made some sort of connection. By connection, I'm not even saying we have to be ready to go exclusive. I'm just saying we've done more than the "So, what do you" "How many kids do you have" and "what do you do for fun" kind of conversation. Actually, let's be creative and not even have those types of conversations. Let's find out about each other in passing... okay, that's another post..
Example of hints and flirting that lets me know he is interested without him being a total douche bag:
#1
Him: What are you doing?
Me: Just relaxing in my recliner.
Him: Any room for me there?
That lets me know that he wants to be close to me. Yet, he wasn't overtly sexual.
#2
Me: What do you think of as a great date?
Him: Something simple, a picnic, a nature walk...
Me: Sounds good. I like simple.
Him: It might not be that romantic, but for a first date we should focus more on conversation...
Me: I didn't say anything about it being a first date.
Him: Oh, well, then I'll go with my original thought of skinny dipping.
Him: Assuming you can swim...
Me: Lol I can swim.
Okay, this part of our conversation let me know that he is interested in skinny dipping with me...hence, he is open to a sexual relationship with me... but not on our first date... That's okay with me. He's not pushing sex on me, but he is letting me know, "Hey, I'm interested in you, and if we make it that far, I'd love to get naked with you." LOL
Does that help?
Like I said... I'm just speaking for me.0 -
Does that help?
Like I said... I'm just speaking for me.
I agree.
It's all about middle ground. Yes, there shouldn't be conversations about sex all the time, but it shouldn't be discounted either.
For me, I do think we make it a lot harder than it should be. I do agree that things should be natural and if you're stressing all the time, it might be because you're not compatible with that person. If you really get along, things shouldn't be complicated and you can be yourself.0 -
I'm not saying that we shouldn't try to look nice or do nice things... I am just saying... maybe we should just relax a little, take things in stride, not worry so much, not try to force things to work...
Tru dat... one consequence of the crazy flurry when I first went back online (and was meeting 2-4 guys each week) is I just didn't have TIME for all the normal stressing, shopping, and primping that went along with each new first date. I doll myself up when I can, but that’s usually only on the weekends.
At first, it was stressful because I was worried I wasn't putting my best foot forward. But one guy I liked put it nicely: "well, at least I know what I'm *really* getting, and the normal day-to-day you looks pretty good." Too bad his divorce wasn't final, lol, b/c I really liked him.0 -
Case in point,if he isn`t sexual you sense no interest,if he is too much it is uncomfortable.
No guy inherently knows the balance to exactly what buttons any individual lady needs pushed.
That is why we need some proactive input and not just coy hints.
I am not painting with a broad brush here but using what you just said (sorry :flowerforyou: ) I have to ask a question now.
Do ladies,despite what they mostly say about intimacy,really do want a guy to show or express that desire early on?
Not in a case of it being actionable for them but as another,for lack of a better word,test they have to pass.
HI, Carl.
I cannot speak for every woman, only for myself.
Do I want to feel desired? YES. Do I want to feel sexy and beautiful and attractive when I'm with a man? YOU BET I DO.
Here's what works best for me:
A man strikes up conversation with me. While he is allowed and quite welcome, I might add, to compliment my looks, he should not invite me to his hotel room the first time we speak. He will score major brownie points if we can converse on a higher thinking level than, "You're hot." The first conversation, for me, should not contain any sexual inuendos... not that I don't like them necessarily, but I will assume he is all about sex. However, over the course of time and conversations, he is allowed to flirt and give hints that he is interested that way. Again, if he wants more than sex from me, sex should not be the only topic of our conversation. Maybe it shouldn't even enter the picture until we've made some sort of connection. By connection, I'm not even saying we have to be ready to go exclusive. I'm just saying we've done more than the "So, what do you" "How many kids do you have" and "what do you do for fun" kind of conversation. Actually, let's be creative and not even have those types of conversations. Let's find out about each other in passing... okay, that's another post..
Example of hints and flirting that lets me know he is interested without him being a total douche bag:
#1
Him: What are you doing?
Me: Just relaxing in my recliner.
Him: Any room for me there?
That lets me know that he wants to be close to me. Yet, he wasn't overtly sexual.
#2
Me: What do you think of as a great date?
Him: Something simple, a picnic, a nature walk...
Me: Sounds good. I like simple.
Him: It might not be that romantic, but for a first date we should focus more on conversation...
Me: I didn't say anything about it being a first date.
Him: Oh, well, then I'll go with my original thought of skinny dipping.
Him: Assuming you can swim...
Me: Lol I can swim.
Okay, this part of our conversation let me know that he is interested in skinny dipping with me...hence, he is open to a sexual relationship with me... but not on our first date... That's okay with me. He's not pushing sex on me, but he is letting me know, "Hey, I'm interested in you, and if we make it that far, I'd love to get naked with you." LOL
Does that help?
Like I said... I'm just speaking for me.
In fairness though that does kind of fall into the making it harder (no pun so everyone get their mind out of the gutter ) part.
How is a guy to know the balance of showing a sexual interest or being seen as creepy?
Especially in the context of many ladies saying they want something emotional before considering the act.
Before this conversation I thought any sexual suggestions were supposed to be off the table completely.0 -
I can't recall any relationship starting up with this kind of flirty conversations. Maybe it's the men you date? I know a man is interested in me because he holds my hand or guides me through a doorway with his hand in the small of my back. To me, the indicators are touch - not some fine balance of getting in some safe flirting without coming across as creepy. Looking for a guy to say the right things does sound a lot like making this harder than they need to be, in my opinion.
For what it's worth, with a guy I really like and feel that click, I will probably spend more time getting ready and worrying about how I look more so than for some guy I've never met before probably for a good while in the dating process until I'm secure in an exclusive relationship. It seems I'm the complete opposite (to muddy the waters for all the men). I guess I meet so few men that I really connect with, it makes me feel more nervous and pressured to put my best self forward for quite a while so I don't blow it. I don't mean not being myself at all, but more getting to know him a little more first before really letting my guard down and showing my figurative warts.0 -
I can't recall any relationship starting up with this kind of flirty conversations. Maybe it's the men you date? I know a man is interested in me because he holds my hand or guides me through a doorway with his hand in the small of my back. To me, the indicators are touch - not some fine balance of getting in some safe flirting without coming across as creepy. Looking for a guy to say the right things does sound a lot like making this harder than they need to be, in my opinion.
For what it's worth, with a guy I really like and feel that click, I will probably spend more time getting ready and worrying about how I look more so than for some guy I've never met before probably for a good while in the dating process until I'm secure in an exclusive relationship. It seems I'm the complete opposite (to muddy the waters for all the men). I guess I meet so few men that I really connect with, it makes me feel more nervous and pressured to put my best self forward for quite a while so I don't blow it. I don't mean not being myself at all, but more getting to know him a little more first before really letting my guard down and showing my figurative warts.
I agree about not having experienced an actual relationship that starts with heavy overt flirting. Those situations tend to go nowhere with me. They're fun, but are in some ways ultimately not sustainable. Again, I agree that touch is a good indicator, and would add that little favors are, too. My ex husband cleaned out my refrigerator for me when we were studying abroad, and I knew....
My general experience is that things with the potential for "real" are based in reality- touching, favors, talking about things other than imaginary sex, and these things tend to be easier for me to maintain long-term.0 -
Case in point,if he isn`t sexual you sense no interest,if he is too much it is uncomfortable.
No guy inherently knows the balance to exactly what buttons any individual lady needs pushed.
That is why we need some proactive input and not just coy hints.
I am not painting with a broad brush here but using what you just said (sorry :flowerforyou: ) I have to ask a question now.
Do ladies,despite what they mostly say about intimacy,really do want a guy to show or express that desire early on?
Not in a case of it being actionable for them but as another,for lack of a better word,test they have to pass.
HI, Carl.
I cannot speak for every woman, only for myself.
Do I want to feel desired? YES. Do I want to feel sexy and beautiful and attractive when I'm with a man? YOU BET I DO.
Here's what works best for me:
A man strikes up conversation with me. While he is allowed and quite welcome, I might add, to compliment my looks, he should not invite me to his hotel room the first time we speak. He will score major brownie points if we can converse on a higher thinking level than, "You're hot." The first conversation, for me, should not contain any sexual inuendos... not that I don't like them necessarily, but I will assume he is all about sex. However, over the course of time and conversations, he is allowed to flirt and give hints that he is interested that way. Again, if he wants more than sex from me, sex should not be the only topic of our conversation. Maybe it shouldn't even enter the picture until we've made some sort of connection. By connection, I'm not even saying we have to be ready to go exclusive. I'm just saying we've done more than the "So, what do you" "How many kids do you have" and "what do you do for fun" kind of conversation. Actually, let's be creative and not even have those types of conversations. Let's find out about each other in passing... okay, that's another post..
Example of hints and flirting that lets me know he is interested without him being a total douche bag:
#1
Him: What are you doing?
Me: Just relaxing in my recliner.
Him: Any room for me there?
That lets me know that he wants to be close to me. Yet, he wasn't overtly sexual.
#2
Me: What do you think of as a great date?
Him: Something simple, a picnic, a nature walk...
Me: Sounds good. I like simple.
Him: It might not be that romantic, but for a first date we should focus more on conversation...
Me: I didn't say anything about it being a first date.
Him: Oh, well, then I'll go with my original thought of skinny dipping.
Him: Assuming you can swim...
Me: Lol I can swim.
Okay, this part of our conversation let me know that he is interested in skinny dipping with me...hence, he is open to a sexual relationship with me... but not on our first date... That's okay with me. He's not pushing sex on me, but he is letting me know, "Hey, I'm interested in you, and if we make it that far, I'd love to get naked with you." LOL
Does that help?
Like I said... I'm just speaking for me.
In fairness though that does kind of fall into the making it harder (no pun so everyone get their mind out of the gutter ) part.
How is a guy to know the balance of showing a sexual interest or being seen as creepy?
Especially in the context of many ladies saying they want something emotional before considering the act.
Before this conversation I thought any sexual suggestions were supposed to be off the table completely.
Carl, just read the other ladies' opinions. Apparently I'm doing things all wrong anyway... LOL.. they say no flirting. I would be lost and clueless if a man didn't flirt with me. I would totally think he had no interest in me whatsoever and then some other man would come along and flirt with me, and I would sense interest, so I would move on. (P.S. If a man isn't going to flirt, he needs to be blunt with me. Hey, woman. I like you. Let's get to know each other.) LOL :flowerforyou:
But just for the record, in my opinion, touch can be a sign of being flirty. A man does not have to use his words to flirt. Heck, sometimes he can just use his eyes without talking or touching.
OH, and remember... I said he was ALLOWED to flirt later on... not that it was necessarily required!!! As long as he lets me know aomehow that he's interested... and I'm interested in him... then, it's all gravy, baby!0 -
Carl, just read the other ladies' opinions. Apparently I'm doing things all wrong anyway... LOL.. they say no flirting. I would be lost and clueless if a man didn't flirt with me. I would totally think he had no interest in me whatsoever and then some other man would come along and flirt with me, and I would sense interest, so I would move on. (P.S. If a man isn't going to flirt, he needs to be blunt with me. Hey, woman. I like you. Let's get to know each other.) LOL :flowerforyou:
But just for the record, in my opinion, touch can be a sign of being flirty. A man does not have to use his words to flirt. Heck, sometimes he can just use his eyes without talking or touching.
OH, and remember... I said he was ALLOWED to flirt later on... not that it was necessarily required!!! As long as he lets me know aomehow that he's interested... and I'm interested in him... then, it's all gravy, baby!
It does raise a larger point though in that what is "right" for you is not for others.
That is fair enough but where the whole notion that ladies should be passive in the early stages of a possible relationship is terribly flawed.
Treating you as I have been led to believe ladies want to be leads you to think I was not interested.
Treating another as you would like will get me called a jerk.
Nothing wrong with either and nothing inferior about both wishes but as I stated to begin with ladies are just really complicated in these things.0 -
I can't recall any relationship starting up with this kind of flirty conversations. Maybe it's the men you date? I know a man is interested in me because he holds my hand or guides me through a doorway with his hand in the small of my back. To me, the indicators are touch - not some fine balance of getting in some safe flirting without coming across as creepy. Looking for a guy to say the right things does sound a lot like making this harder than they need to be, in my opinion.
I'm not looking for a guy to say the right things. Carl asked a question about what is okay as far as flirting goes, and I simply answered him with conversations that I've actually had with men whom I'd actually been talking to for a while. The first example happened with a guy I'd actually already met and had been seeing. The second conversation happened with a man whom I've had many many intellectual conversations, and this night we just happened to be chatting.
Do men flirt with me? Yes. Maybe it is the type of men I date. Honestly, I didn't know there was another type out there. Maybe it's me. Maybe I put off a flirtatious vibe. That would definitely be something upon which I could reflect.
And in my opinion, a man touching me is also part of flirting, showing interest and affection.
I'm not requiring that a man flirt with me. I'm not looking for him to say just the right things. In fact, if he always has just the right thing to say, I tend to regard him as a player and know that he's probably not the one for me. It's not that I'm looking for a guy to say the right things necessarily but that red flags are raised when he says the wrong things.
For what it's worth, with a guy I really like and feel that click, I will probably spend more time getting ready and worrying about how I look more so than for some guy I've never met before probably for a good while in the dating process until I'm secure in an exclusive relationship. It seems I'm the complete opposite (to muddy the waters for all the men). I guess I meet so few men that I really connect with, it makes me feel more nervous and pressured to put my best self forward for quite a while so I don't blow it. I don't mean not being myself at all, but more getting to know him a little more first before really letting my guard down and showing my figurative warts.
Actually, that was kind of my point. Why spend time worrying about a meeting or first date when you're not even sure if you like the guy or not. Definitely, if I'm interested in a man or care about him, I want to dress and do my hair and look great for him. But when I feel like there is a connection, things just seem to fall into place.. I am me. Of course, I want to put my best foot forward, but I also am comfortable with being myself. And I don't worry about saying just the right thing or whatever.0 -
Carl, just read the other ladies' opinions. Apparently I'm doing things all wrong anyway... LOL.. they say no flirting. I would be lost and clueless if a man didn't flirt with me. I would totally think he had no interest in me whatsoever and then some other man would come along and flirt with me, and I would sense interest, so I would move on. (P.S. If a man isn't going to flirt, he needs to be blunt with me. Hey, woman. I like you. Let's get to know each other.) LOL :flowerforyou:
But just for the record, in my opinion, touch can be a sign of being flirty. A man does not have to use his words to flirt. Heck, sometimes he can just use his eyes without talking or touching.
OH, and remember... I said he was ALLOWED to flirt later on... not that it was necessarily required!!! As long as he lets me know aomehow that he's interested... and I'm interested in him... then, it's all gravy, baby!
It does raise a larger point though in that what is "right" for you is not for others.
That is fair enough but where the whole notion that ladies should be passive in the early stages of a possible relationship is terribly flawed.
Treating you as I have been led to believe ladies want to be leads you to think I was not interested.
Treating another as you would like will get me called a jerk.
Nothing wrong with either and nothing inferior about both wishes but as I stated to begin with ladies are just really complicated in these things.
I am not necessarily passive but I'm not necessarily aggressive either. Yes, I usually do tend to let the man make the first move as far as calling or asking me out. But I do my fair share of letting him know I'm interested, and if need be, will initiate the kiss. One guy waited just way too long for me. I wanted to kiss him. So I did. LOL Afterwards, I wished I hadn't... but that's a different story. When I'm interested in someone, I generally let it be known. Okay... maybe after he has shown some sort of interest in me... but I'm not totally passive. Let's just say I am great at giving hints and opening the windows of opportunity for a man.
Yes, we women are complicated. I'm sorry. I don't think there will ever be one concrete answer to anything about either sex. Because not all men are created equally either.
My advice, Carl: Just be yourself. Who are you? What kind of lady are you looking for? Are you looking for a lady who is going to think of you as a jerk for friendly flirting? Then don't flirt. Are you looking for a lady who is okay with a little flirting? Then, flirt. Figure out what you want. Be who you are. You're not going to please everyone. If you can't figure out the difference between being a pervert and friendly flirting, then you should stay away from the flirting at least until you figure it out. LOL
Love you, friend!!!0 -
I can't recall any relationship starting up with this kind of flirty conversations. Maybe it's the men you date? I know a man is interested in me because he holds my hand or guides me through a doorway with his hand in the small of my back. To me, the indicators are touch - not some fine balance of getting in some safe flirting without coming across as creepy. Looking for a guy to say the right things does sound a lot like making this harder than they need to be, in my opinion.
For what it's worth, with a guy I really like and feel that click, I will probably spend more time getting ready and worrying about how I look more so than for some guy I've never met before probably for a good while in the dating process until I'm secure in an exclusive relationship. It seems I'm the complete opposite (to muddy the waters for all the men). I guess I meet so few men that I really connect with, it makes me feel more nervous and pressured to put my best self forward for quite a while so I don't blow it. I don't mean not being myself at all, but more getting to know him a little more first before really letting my guard down and showing my figurative warts.
I agree about not having experienced an actual relationship that starts with heavy overt flirting. Those situations tend to go nowhere with me. They're fun, but are in some ways ultimately not sustainable. Again, I agree that touch is a good indicator, and would add that little favors are, too. My ex husband cleaned out my refrigerator for me when we were studying abroad, and I knew....
My general experience is that things with the potential for "real" are based in reality- touching, favors, talking about things other than imaginary sex, and these things tend to be easier for me to maintain long-term.
While I can't say that I haven't experienced a relationship that started with heavy overt flirting, I do not see how the examples I gave were heavy overt flirting.
A little fun friendly flirting just lets me know of his initial interest and that he finds me desirable. That's all, people. I'm not trying to build a relationship on imaginary sex. Although I don't think it's wrong to discuss sex in the beginning of getting to know one another.. how else do you find out if you will be compatible or not. For instance, maybe I want to wait, but he goes by the third date rule. We aren't a match. Or maybe he has some kind of weird fettish that totally grosses me out. We're not a match. I'm not saying that we should cyber and then get married.
However, I agree that a relationship should be built on more than sex, more than flirting... My ex got my attention by coming to my aid when I was sick, by coming over to help me out when my lights went out, by helping me hang shelves and a clock in my classroom. His actions showed me that he cared. Did he flirt with me before that, though? Yea, he did.0 -
My advice, Carl: Just be yourself. Who are you? What kind of lady are you looking for? Are you looking for a lady who is going to think of you as a jerk for friendly flirting? Then don't flirt. Are you looking for a lady who is okay with a little flirting? Then, flirt. Figure out what you want. Be who you are. You're not going to please everyone. If you can't figure out the difference between being a pervert and friendly flirting, then you should stay away from the flirting at least until you figure it out. LOL
Love you, friend!!!
The problem arises in that no lady is wearing a sign or handing out an instruction book as to what they want.
Believe me,many many women do want to engage in intimate,sexual fantasies,there is nothing strange or wrong about that.
My basic point is still that women need to be very proactive about what they desire and not trying to test a guy out over it.
That is unfair.0 -
I think both sexes are to blame to a certain extent. However, ever girl I know reads Cosmo (and all other related magazines) and their articles tend to very game centric, i.e. how many days should I wait to contact him? take this quiz and find out if you should contact him immediately, yada yada yada.
It makes for an entertaining read, but extremely crappy dating advice.0 -
My advice, Carl: Just be yourself. Who are you? What kind of lady are you looking for? Are you looking for a lady who is going to think of you as a jerk for friendly flirting? Then don't flirt. Are you looking for a lady who is okay with a little flirting? Then, flirt. Figure out what you want. Be who you are. You're not going to please everyone. If you can't figure out the difference between being a pervert and friendly flirting, then you should stay away from the flirting at least until you figure it out. LOL
Love you, friend!!!
The problem arises in that no lady is wearing a sign or handing out an instruction book as to what they want.
Believe me,many many women do want to engage in intimate,sexual fantasies,there is nothing strange or wrong about that.
My basic point is still that women need to be very proactive about what they desire and not trying to test a guy out over it.
That is unfair.
Can I ask you a question? How is it a test? Do you see what I've said as a test?
I don't know. Maybe it's all a test. Do men test women? If a man throws a flirty comment out there, is that a test? Is he testing her to see if she'll take the bait? Is he testing her to see what her reaction will be? Or is he just flirting? Just because I do not welcome pictures of a man's special treasure on the first contact but yet am okay with some flirting later on does not mean that I am testing men. It just means that I'm not the type of woman who is going to run and jump in bed (figuratively or literally) with a man especially before I even know his name. Which may mean that he and I will not be compatible.
I don't have a checklist in front of me, marking off items on a list when I talk to a man. But what I've learned is that I'm not compatible with every man. It's not a test. It's me being honest with myself about who I am and what I want.
This is in part what I'm saying. WE all do tend to make it diffiicult. Honestly, Carl, I think you are making it more difficult than it is. Maybe it's the encounters you've had with women? I don't know.
Let me ask you this. What do you want us to do? Wear signs on our foreheads?
I don't want to be a confusing woman that comes across as handing out applications and accepting resume's and doing interviews... lol... I just like talking to men, getting to know them... I can usually tell within a few conversations if I think we would be any sort of match, though.0 -
My advice, Carl: Just be yourself. Who are you? What kind of lady are you looking for? Are you looking for a lady who is going to think of you as a jerk for friendly flirting? Then don't flirt. Are you looking for a lady who is okay with a little flirting? Then, flirt. Figure out what you want. Be who you are. You're not going to please everyone. If you can't figure out the difference between being a pervert and friendly flirting, then you should stay away from the flirting at least until you figure it out. LOL
Love you, friend!!!
The problem arises in that no lady is wearing a sign or handing out an instruction book as to what they want.
Believe me,many many women do want to engage in intimate,sexual fantasies,there is nothing strange or wrong about that.
My basic point is still that women need to be very proactive about what they desire and not trying to test a guy out over it.
That is unfair.
Can I ask you a question? How is it a test? Do you see what I've said as a test?
I don't know. Maybe it's all a test. Do men test women? If a man throws a flirty comment out there, is that a test? Is he testing her to see if she'll take the bait? Is he testing her to see what her reaction will be? Or is he just flirting? Just because I do not welcome pictures of a man's special treasure on the first contact but yet am okay with some flirting later on does not mean that I am testing men. It just means that I'm not the type of woman who is going to run and jump in bed (figuratively or literally) with a man especially before I even know his name. Which may mean that he and I will not be compatible.
I don't have a checklist in front of me, marking off items on a list when I talk to a man. But what I've learned is that I'm not compatible with every man. It's not a test. It's me being honest with myself about who I am and what I want.
This is in part what I'm saying. WE all do tend to make it diffiicult. Honestly, Carl, I think you are making it more difficult than it is. Maybe it's the encounters you've had with women? I don't know.
Let me ask you this. What do you want us to do? Wear signs on our foreheads?
I don't want to be a confusing woman that comes across as handing out applications and accepting resume's and doing interviews... lol... I just like talking to men, getting to know them... I can usually tell within a few conversations if I think we would be any sort of match, though.
I guess to clarify that when I say test it is not in a probing,exploring context but a decided pass or fail one.
Of course this is a generalization but my personal feelings and what I observe here is that guys are much more open to a wide range of responses from a lady towards us.
In contrast many women are looking for exact things to stir the feelings they want and failing to do that gives no second chance,miss it and you are done...hit it and move on even if as a guy you are a complete jerk.0 -
Yes, we do.
When things feel right, there's a great flow to all interactions. No complexities, no nonsense.
Exactly. When two people who like each other, you will know because both will text each other alot.0 -
There is a difference between guidelines/rules of dating and "be yourself".
I think guidelines/rules of dating are useful to frame normal interactions. For example, I might naturally be drawn to express my feelings by texting a girl a 5-pages message every day, but more often than not, the girl is likely to find this creepy since this is not a norm and ultimately might actually make life more complicated.
I guess for all these things of which I don't care about that much, it's useful to know what is expected from your average girl so that my actions don't look too off the chart.
Similarly, outside of the scope of dating, most people you meet expect you to say "Hello", "Please" and "Goodbye", and not doing as recommended by society would gimp you. That's a norm, and knowing that norm helps you to have pleasant and proper interactions with people.
Also, it feels natural to me to say "Hello", "Please" and "Goodbye", I feel like I'm being myself when I do this. Similarly, I've more or less integrated the rules of dating and it feels natural acting with this frame now.
There is a difference with being yourself, which basically implies: behave how you want for these things you care about.
If sending a 5-pages text message was really a big deal to me, then I'd want to find a girl who accepts this, so that I can be myself, as I'd feel like I'm giving up on a part of me if I had to give up on that.0
