the horse i ride is a B*TCH!

BandForAlyAnne

seriously. last 3 times i have ridden her she has completely froze and refuses to move for the world. i had never experienced this with her before. although after talking to another girl that rides her at the barn, she says this has happened to her on trails. its ridiculous. i usually ride her once a week and i always take her out the front gate and ride her down a dead end and back. shes doesnt really like going out by herself, but she usually goes. i have never had a reason to kick into/pop a horse before. i feel like its unnecessary, but when shes does this i am faced with no other choice. but shes doesnt respond! she just stands there and takes it! let me just say that i am always cautious with her/any horse i ride. i always rub down their backs and check their legs and feet before i ride. shes not injured. shes just stubborn. as soon as she realizes im going to try to go out the gate with her she pulls this, but i always make a point to "win". i make it seem like i've won everytime. you just have to keep at it until she gives in. but its exhausting! and yesterday was the worst one she ever pulled. i had to get off and walk her out the gate and part of the way down the road.walking in circles for about 10 mins trying to make her frustrated/willing to give. now add the fact thats shes a 16ish hand horse and im out of shape, its near impossible to get back on her without a stool. i had to get off and on 3 times and the only thing thing that saved me was a raised manhole that comes about 10 inches off the ground. but everytime i got back on and she realized we werent going back to the barn she froze again. we did this for about 45 mins. i was tired, pissed off, and embarrassed to be sitting there whacking the horse with my reins in front of passing cars. they prolly thought i was beating a helpless animal. i know your never supposed to let them win, but there comes a certain point that your just unable to continue. i was there, but in a last ditch effort i ran her toward the barn and then turned back toward the street and kept her at a fast trot past the gate and onto the grass on the sides of the street. i could feel her hesitation right before we went past the barrier and i could almost hear her think, "well *kitten*, i lost this one". and after that she was fine! we walked/ trotted all the way down the street and back without a problem!!! why couldn't we have done that from the start?! i was somewhere caught between relief, anger, and exhaustion. she just seemed resigned. she walked down the road like nothing had happened at all. i was mad that i was forced to be a little rough with her. im of the opinion that staying calm, talking, and pressuring a horse to do what you want is the best way to work, but sometimes thats not enough i guess. we got back to the barn and i unsaddled her and checked again to make sure she wasnt hurt. i guess i was almost hoping somthing was wrong to explain these fits, but there was nothing. completely sound and not even a tail swish at putting pressure on different areas of her back. shes was just staring at me wondering why the hell it was taking so long to get her treats.. unbelievable. no, theres nothing wrong with this horse, shes just a b*tch. im going out to ride her again tuesday. hopefully she doesnt pull this again. the only thing i know to do is to be consistent. if any of you guys have dealt with this before and found a special way to solve it, im all ears. thx for letting me have a rant. i needed it. :P

Ps: i hope all you horse people out there don't take this as me being abusive/harsh to the horse. i can assure you thats not the case at all. shes the most spoiled/ well taken care of horse you can imagine. so much so that if you forget to bring her carrots, you can forget about trying to ride. lol

TXBelle1174

I used to have a show mare that we called "CB" Think about it for a minute and insert horrible expletive. It did not stand for "Cuddle Bunny". She was beautiful but man was she a B#@$%. She would do the same exact thing and no amount of slapping with a riding crop, whopping her with the reins, kicking, or spurring would move her. IF we were in the arena/round pen. If I took her out on a trail or open area, she was awesome but when I put her in the arena, she turned into Hell Bitc$ # 1. I guess I had burned her out so badly on showing, schooling, etc. that she just flat refused to do it anymore.

Maybe try taking your sweet pea in a different direction. Literally! Do something different. It may not work but you never know.

I would be so mad after riding CB, I would be almost in tears. Oh she made me so mad!!!! After I discovered that she loved the trail and loved to work cows, we went that route instead. She never bowed up when we were "out". Only when I made her do arena work.

The other thing too.... No matter how much I whacked on her... she never really bucked. She would bow her back and hump up like a rodeo bronc, but she never BUCKED. Feet never left the ground. I was lucky. Just be careful, she may get to the point where she decides she IS going to win and might come unglued. A trainer once told me that if I whack on a horse like that, I had better be prepared for the "unconditional GO".

I dont beat my horses either but every now and then, they need a whack. Rarely, now that I have two old men but even so, Lonesome was spoiled and will mow you down if you let him. That is NOT ok for a 1000 lb/ 16+hh horse.

ruralgirl

If shes only just started this I would say something is up. Check what has been happening with others who ride her. I had this with a coloured cob who I tried the forcing approach to get him past tractors (he froze & refused to move - embarassing whn the thi8ng has stopped/reversed/ pulled over etc for you to go past!). It didnt work and I got really upset with myself for forcing a horse to choose between something its really scared of and me hitting it. Obviously I dont know if shes scared or just stubborn for some reason but you could try some psycology and maybe a natural horsemanship approach (I am not someone for whome this is the be all and end al believe me) - get some advice - theres something up even if its something we dont think its reasonable to be scared of. My horse jumped a mile across the road yesterday at the gray back of a roadsign just because it was half hidden by a bush - she was fine with th bright red front which she could see well on the way back! Above all dont loose your temper with the animal and dont blame her or make it personal shell pick up on those vibes the minute you get on - think calm positive thoughts towards her:-). I am by no means perfect and have only learnt this over 30 years of riding - maybe she had a bad experience or is genuinly scared. Sometimes it helps to sit tight and let them just stand for a bit - dont let her go back but let them stand then move forward a few paces and stand again - the minute she moves in the right direction praise her and take the pressure off for a few minutes then encourage her forward again - that way shes getting reward and reasurrance every time she moves forward - then gradually whatever is causeing her problem hopefully it will turn into a good experience - if possible everyone who rides her she employ the same strategy as well or she'll get confused. Also its worth remembering how bad a horse could react if you hit it and what damage they would be capable of inflicting on us if they wanted to - and the majority choose not to even when we hit them. Ive probably just come across as a bit 'right on' and patronising - dont mean to - just trying to help from experience of being a practical rider.

BandForAlyAnne

only me and said girl really ride her. shes my aunts horse, but she hasnt been riding lately. and i can go ahead and rule out fear. she spooks a little at a dog that barks across the street, but its the same dog thats always there and shes used to him now. like i said we have been riding this route once or twice a week for about 3 months now. once i finally got her to go she was surefooted and not sppoky even though we could hear squirrels and other thing rustling about the trees. fox (the horse) freezes completely also. wont back up or sometime wont even turn to go back to the barn if you've been tryingto get her to go for awhile. she tries to appease you by flexing her neck. : / as for natural horsemanship. thats always the first apporach. she was taught in the cliton anderson style and she usually responds very well to light touches and nudges. and i never lose my temper. i can be angry and frustrated but i never take it out on the horse. and she still gets her brush down and treat after bad rides. i always want her to enjoy her time with me.one other thing i have tried is just to sit there on her for long periods of time to see if she will give in that way. no real luck so far. but i think the longest ive gone is about 15 mins. its really hard to sit still in the texas heat like that, but if shes does it again i may try that method again. and one more thing. :P (sry im long winded) she has never reared or tried to buck when this is happeneing. shes always very gentle towards the rider. shes reared out of fear before, but never out of anger. but im always careful. that one of the reasons im sure thes not injured. i figure if she was she would have tried to get me off. and i understand what your trying to say. your not patronizing. if i were in your shoes i would have said the same thing. but i am on the same page as you and i really have ruled most of these things out already. she really is just stubborn. thats why im upset. but again thats why im ranting here and not at my horse. horses arent dogs. you cant really repremand them, only teach them. hopefully we will get this worked out before too long.

backonbandwagon

I might have missed it, but do you use a crop? Whacking with reins isn't quite the same as a good bat from behind to get them to go forward, especially if your leg strength isn't coming across as determined as you would like it to (you mentioned you were out of shape).
There is a huge difference between losing your temper and riding as though your life depended on the horse moving forward, so I hope that my sentence implied that correctly. I have ridden many horses that scared riders and just planted their feet. Firstly I make sure they know the basics on the ground - moving forward. I long line so we are both clear on what is expected, even past a boogie man if there is a particular object the owner was having issues with. Being behind the horse long-lining them forces them to think like they would when a rider is on their back as far as obedience goes (rather than going into auto-pilot/follow the lead horse). Once we're good with that, then I ride. Sometimes it genuinely is a stubborn issue that needs some solid reinforcing discussion. I had to work VERY hard to get this one mare to go forward when I asked. Got her going tho. The her owner came home from school and rode her for a week. Guess what - the following week had to have the same discussions all over again, only for not as long etc. She was a tough one. Good jumper tho
It really makes you wonder why you ride though, doesn't it? uck... Hope your challenge doesn't last too long and you are both out enjoying the partnership again soon

BandForAlyAnne

I might have missed it, but do you use a crop? Whacking with reins isn't quite the same as a good bat from behind to get them to go forward, especially if your leg strength isn't coming across as determined as you would like it to (you mentioned you were out of shape).
There is a huge difference between losing your temper and riding as though your life depended on the horse moving forward, so I hope that my sentence implied that correctly. I have ridden many horses that scared riders and just planted their feet. Firstly I make sure they know the basics on the ground - moving forward. I long line so we are both clear on what is expected, even past a boogie man if there is a particular object the owner was having issues with. Being behind the horse long-lining them forces them to think like they would when a rider is on their back as far as obedience goes (rather than going into auto-pilot/follow the lead horse). Once we're good with that, then I ride. Sometimes it genuinely is a stubborn issue that needs some solid reinforcing discussion. I had to work VERY hard to get this one mare to go forward when I asked. Got her going tho. The her owner came home from school and rode her for a week. Guess what - the following week had to have the same discussions all over again, only for not as long etc. She was a tough one. Good jumper tho
It really makes you wonder why you ride though, doesn't it? uck... Hope your challenge doesn't last too long and you are both out enjoying the partnership again soon

i hope so to. i do have a crop, but i dont use it. never had a reason too, but i will have it with me tomorrow in case she does it again. just going to have to work at it i guess. : / even with all its ups and downs tho there is nothing quite like a good ride.

ruralgirl

Thinking about it I did have another cob once who was quite young and started napping on trying to leave the yard - one short very sharp crack with the stick and he was so surprised he never did it again. Also employed this method with my mare who wouldnt load (having tried coaxing, food, NH etc etc before). Once was all it took and she never baulked at the trailer or lorry again - but as the previous person (have done this a wierd way and now cant see the rest of the posts to see what her name was sorry!) said that once has to be done very short and sharp. Hope something works for you - as I said before I dont enjoy having to resort to this and my coloured never responded to it but that was fear so different to stubbornness. Just be prepared for her to leap or something and let us know what happens;-) Ah sorry bandwagon it was you who mentioned the stick - have just edited ;-)

BandForAlyAnne

ok tonights ride was much better. i took the crop i never use and when she started freezing one good pop stopped her. after that if she started getting stiff i would just touch her butt with is to let her know it was still there. and she was FINE! i told you, shes just a b*tch. :P lol so i will just have to ride with the crop from now on in case she ever acts up again. its much more quick and effective that "nagging" her with the reins.

ruralgirl

Glad you got it sorted. She knows where she is now;-)

Frauandy

My Gelding used to be that way when leaving the yard alone. He is still a little herd sour but if you are firm and fair they get the idea. If he freezes up on the trail then I wait for him to calm down (his head shoots up like a giraffe) and then ask him to move 1 step to the side (either direction)...once you have motion you can direct it. I never try to make him go forward in a straight line if he has stopped dead as I know he will resist, but that one side step usually changes everything and then he will hesitantly move again around whatever he was worried about. Once past the uprooted tree, boulder, whatever, he would move down the trail normally again.

I agree with the use of the riding crop and have done so in the past with him. I used to call it the “motivation stick” as he only has to know it is with me (don’t have to actually use it) to behave like a well mannered horse instead of a goat, lol.

miliser

My gelding used to do this, if I kicked he bucked, I could hit him with the crop and he'd move but then I started taking him for walks, it was great excercise for us both, yes I looked weird jogging with a horse but he became a fantastic trail horse this way. And it was spending time together.
Maybe not for everyone but worked a treat for me

BandForAlyAnne

My gelding used to do this, if I kicked he bucked, I could hit him with the crop and he'd move but then I started taking him for walks, it was great excercise for us both, yes I looked weird jogging with a horse but he became a fantastic trail horse this way. And it was spending time together.
Maybe not for everyone but worked a treat for me

maybe when it cools down i will try this.

SMCLosesIt

Have you tried backing her? I had a mare that got like this and I used to turn her around and start going backwards in the direction I wanted to go - it's much harder work and they soon figure out that just walking forwards is the easier thing to do (be carefull though - sometimes they will rear to get out of it) The other thing is to just sit and wait it out. I have sat for half an hour sometimes just waiting. Any forward movement gets a big praise, any backwards gets a pop with the whip and a growl. Usually they get so sick of waiting around they will go where you want them too.

Good luck - It's the most frustrating kind of horse to ride I recon - give me one you can't stop anytime over one that won't move!!

BandForAlyAnne

Thx for the input, but I've fixed the problem finally. She will start to freeze when I first get on sometimes, but a pop or two with the crop makes her go. She finally got that I wasn't messing around anymore. Lol. She's still a ***** tho.

SheilaG1963

Just got into this topic and have a suggestion. Have you made sure your saddle fits properly? Saddle her up and put your hand under the saddle by her withers and pick up her front leg. If the saddle pinches your hand, chances are it is pinching her and is uncomfortable.

Also try riding a different direction. Maybe she's bored. My foxtrotter gets sour when asked to gait faster and the old owners always used a whip. Finding out that his tie down was too tight made all the difference in the world. Loosened it all the way up, faster gaits and no head tossing because he knows it's still on his nose, just not exerting any pressure.

ruralgirl

Can I ask what is a Foxtrotter, and a tiedown? Just curious to translate into UK speak lol - do you mean a martingale? :-)

BandForAlyAnne

Both of her saddles fit very well and no new tack was introduced to cause this. Honestly it just fits her personality. She's got such attitude. But if it were a different horse I would definitely consider that maybe being the issue. Her western saddle is one she's had for 4 years. It took 3 saddles to find one that made her happy. And a few months ago I started riding her English pleasure and got a all purpose wintec. Honestly I don't think I could have found a better fitting saddle. And I can tell she prefers the lighter weight. There is about a 50/50 chance she will ( think) about freezing no matter what tack is used. Just depends on her mood. But it really hasn't been an issue lately.

SheilaG1963

Can I ask what is a Foxtrotter, and a tiedown? Just curious to translate into UK speak lol - do you mean a martingale? :-)

A Foxtrotter is a gaited horse that has a diagonal gait. When he gaits at any speed, he walks with his front and trots with his back feet. It's kind of hard to explain. There are several videos on YouTube, if that would help you.

A tie down is a device used to keep a horse from tossing their heads.

Jessamyfrm

I've had both of these problems with both my lads.

My Haflinger is literally scared of EVERYTHING even though he's a big lad. The only way I can get him past something is by dismounting and leading him past and reassuring him. I know that whacking him with a crop or kicking into his sides isn't gonna work for him, he appreciates a gentle approach.

My little Newforest is my bravest lad. He's always been the perfect hacker until one day he did not want to go down the track. Turns out he had a knot in his back/hip area and after one massage from a professional problem was solved.

Hope you solve it soon!

ruralgirl

Why would a horse toss its head? Is it something this breed do in relation to their strange sounding gait? Was there a reason originally for wanting a horse to walk with front legs and trotwith back legs? It sounds a bit unnatural to me....Having read back I sound a bit judgemental - not meaning to be just that where I come from it sounds crazy to want a horse to move like that! lol

Oh OK have googled I kind of get it now:-) They look lovely as a breed!

SheilaG1963

Why would a horse toss its head? Is it something this breed do in relation to their strange sounding gait? Was there a reason originally for wanting a horse to walk with front legs and trotwith back legs? It sounds a bit unnatural to me....Having read back I sound a bit judgemental - not meaning to be just that where I come from it sounds crazy to want a horse to move like that! lol

Oh OK have googled I kind of get it now:-) They look lovely as a breed!

It does sound like a weird way to move, but he is absolutely smooth as silk. All foxtrotters toss their heads, he is just so big, he can thump you in the head with his poll and it hurts. The tie down just keeps him from tossing it so high! It's a totally natural gait and he does it barefoot and out in the pasture. No cruel devices to make him do it. Some idiots use chains on their feet. Lots of people use sleigh bells to hear the gait, but I haven't tried that yet. I'm sure it would sound wonderful!

BellehavenfarmDawn

well I see that only the end of this group is some what current. Inother words I may be talking to myself. I know none of us want to be abusive and yet we all loose our tempers at times (I do apologize to my horse when I regain myself)

I have been with my OTTB for 8 years. I found him as a 5 year old rescue and trained him myself. An amateur with lots of horse experience but not a pro trainer.

when I ran into snags, I tried never to go down the path of You Listen To Me. In my relationship, we are a team. If a horse freezes, or shies or whatever, I used my big human brain to figure things out. I have learned from clicker training to go back to what the horse liked, or what he could do. (Alex Kurland is just great and SO pro horse)

One reason I love clicker, and I am now working with several TBs at the farm where I board who have particular "issues" is that Clicker totally changes the game. You share a language and all but the most shy horse wants to play immediately!

for a frozen horse, I would just pop off, Well Can You back ( just move a muscle), Click and Treat. can you walk forward, again any tiny movement is rewarded. suddnely the horse is focused on cha cha cha. I could probably hop on, repeat lesson from saddle.

Horses do things for a reason, IMHO. If I smack or scream etc etc, the wrong part of my brain took over. To my BFF, I have become a predator and that sucks. but they forgive us, again and again.