ASK AN ATHEIST

BlueJean4114

Since this group
is designed to better our UNDERSTANDING of other views
and develop tolerance and insight into various views which don't match our own,
and have some thought-provoking discussions

---

i thought i'd post this thread ----"ASK AN ATHEIST"
in case Anyone out there:flowerforyou:
has any questions they wonder about what atheists think or believe or don't believe, etc.

Atheists are diverse.
We have no organized 'belief' system,
no dogma,
no official leader,
no books we adhere to,
no specific rules.
Atheism is NOT a religion.

so obviously,
i can NOT speak for any other atheist, other than my own self.

but, i've been atheist for most of 4 decades now,
and have interacted with tons of other atheists now,
and i find, many of my ideas are often shared by many other atheists as well.
still,
any question i answer,
is truly only MY individual answer, and may not reflect some other atheist's answer.


SO IF ANYONE AT ALL
WHETHER ATHEIST, THEIST, DEIST, AGNOSTIC, SBNRs, ('spiritual but not religious') or belong to 'alternative' belief systems,
or whatever,
has ANY question,

---

"Well, if you don't believe in god, do you worship the devil, then?"

"What do you think happens when you die?"

"How can you be sure there is no god? Do you think you have some proof there are no gods?"

"Aren't you afraid of hell? What if you are wrong?"

"How do you know right from wrong if you don't read the bible or Qur'an or Torah, etc etc?"

"Well, where did the universe come from then, if there wasn't a magic big daddy who made it appear?"

"But i feel such peace when i pray, knowing my god is watching over me, and you miss all that, how sad, right?"

"What about your kids? What did you tell them?"

"Who do you pray to if you are worried or need help?"

"Do you hate god?"

"Isn't atheism a religion, too?"

"Well, if you don't believe in god, doesn't' this mean you don't believe in love?? Cuz god = love, it's same thing.'

"Do you celebrate Christmas, Easter, etc?"

"Where is any harm from religion? Why not just try to believe?"

"Can't you see all things happen for a reason? That everything is all part of A Plan?"

"What is the difference between an atheist and an agnostic? Or can someone be both?"

"What is the difference between a deist and a theist? Can a theist also be agnostic, too?"

"So if there is no hell, what keeps you from just killing people? Are you a hedonistic self-centered sinner then?"

or
whatever.
In past 40 years, I've heard them all..........:laugh:

I do not have all the answers, but i am willing to discuss these topics politely :flowerforyou: and willing to explain how *I* see things. Again, my answers, might not fit any other atheist you meet's ideas. We are all unique, and can be diverse. Any other atheists reading along,
are very welcome to pitch in, and share THEIR ideas, too, to any questions that come along.


If i say any reply
that makes no sense to you, let me know,
i'm happy to try to explain it better.
If i say any remark that you disagree with,
i'd much prefer you attack my remark,
and not ME personally, though.
KEEP IT RATIONAL!! (good idea to read the group rules about being polite)

rextcat

ok ill bite, " what happens when you die?"

foxyforce

what happens when a plant dies, or ant dies, or candle burns out?

nothing. in death there is nothing.

BlueJean4114

ok ill bite, " what happens when you die?"

such a great question!! so interesting to think about........

No one really knows, to be honest.


But there is zero empirical proof of any afterlife.
so my guess is,
my existence after my body is dead,
will be much like my existence was before i was conceived.......in other words, nothing.

this idea can be mind-boggling to someone who has been raised to think our species never dies, that we have some type of special energy that is eternal. And to those who expect a big party in the sky after they die,
i say,
if that notion provides you comfort,
go for it, indulge in it .....but i dislike seeing anyone focus so intently on afterlife rewards or punishments, that is can cause them to behave irrationally in this life.

To me,
this life,
is awesome as it is. There is joy, wonder, awe, mystery all around us, here and now. No magic, no promise of big prizes for good behavior needed for me to enjoy life here and now.

also,
i personally do not believe one can separate out the body from the person or the mind. They are inextricably linked. What impacts one (the body or the mind) eventually impacts the other.
Even your emotions can be seen lighting up various parts of your brain in P.E.T scans and measured in neurochemical changes in your bloodstreams. If i were to lower your sodium or sugar level in your bloodstream,
add drugs into your veins,
or even give you enough tequila,
or if a bloodclot prevents oxygenation of even a few centimeters of your brain,
the you,
that is you,
the you that your family knows well, and loves,
the you that loved music, astronomy, animals, and was always polite,
might be unrecognizable and be not much like your previous self.

If Aunt Mable has a stroke,
and now,
just a few centimeters of her brain are dead,
she is no longer really Aunt Mabel....... The person she once was, the personality that so representative of her,
the features and characteristics that made her "her",
are now gone, and this new person now acts entirely differently.
so it's real hard for me to imagine how she could survive the death of her entire brain in any form.
btw, where did the "old" Aunt Mabel "go"? now that we are left with this here other personage in her body.



then,
to pre-emptively answer the obvious next question

---

"but what about your energy? Energy can not be destroyed."

Like a dead battery,
energy can dissipate.
I imagine, that my energy,
will be converted to heat,
and dissipate into the air around my dead body,
as my skin cools.

SO ENJOY LIFE:bigsmile: NOW!!!

that's my guess, but,
like i said,
no one really knows. but there is no replicable evidence for any afterlife of any creature.
(braces for the "but what about the "white light" stories, etc, but this answer is probably too long already, lol!)

FEEL FREE to comment on or question any remark i say, i don't mind.

BlueJean4114

ok ill bite, " what happens when you die?"

a shorter way to answer it,
is
how did you feel before you were born?

that is how i guess we will 'feel' after we are dead.

(it's hard for us humans to imagine NOT feeling or NOT being aware,
so if one considers how you 'felt' before you were born, it is slightly easier to imagine your nonexistence..)

rextcat

ok well thats just a tad depressing

BlueJean4114

ok well thats just a tad depressing

Yeah, i hear that a lot from theists who have been hypnotized to expect a huge party upon death.......who have been told, this ghost party is THE thing to look forward to and focus on, who have been told that perfection can only be achieved after death.

I disagree.
I have moments of perfection,
right here
right now.
NOpe, not every day.
Nope, maybe not all day long.
But i do have moments of total euphoria, where to me,
waves of overwhelming joy or awe wash over me...............moments, sometimes hours or days,
where all i can see
is joy, beauty, wonder and awe..........maybe over simple things in my world,
maybe over learning something new.
but i can feel perfection here and now.

from what i can tell,
not everyone is capable of experiencing that.
but,
i can.


but, to me, that idea of the ghost party is irrational. There is no evidence for this 'party-when-you-are-dead' scene.......none.

Some atheists were raised without the notion of turning into invisible ghosts and going to a party, but the bulk of today's USA atheists were raised by theist parents, so most of today's atheists also grew up with the "party when you die" concept, too.

Most USA atheists had to re-train their brains to accept the 'death is death' idea. An atheist *could* chose to continue believing in an afterlife if they wanted to, there's no rule about this, ha ha.. I have met one (1) atheist who still believes in an afterlife,
but, atheists who DO believe in afterlife,
tend to be uncommon.
But, once one does begin to "QUESTION EVERYTHING"
it tends to get hard to hang on to the ghost-party concept when there is no evidence for it.

Adjusting to the idea there is no ghost-party, can be hard for some atheists, too. I have witnessed some atheists go through a transition of sorts, when they first let go of the ghost-party idea some go through a let down, a disappointment, feel bummed out about it, at first. LIke kids who thought they were going to a party, but then are told, it's been cancelled, lol.

It takes some time to even get the idea that's planted in one's head since birth to even stop, it can be THAT ingrained.
I don't remember going through that,cuz it's been so so long for me, but i must have. Things we learn as kids, can take a long time to UNplug again, (IF someone does chose to unplug the idea.)


. I don't think it is depressing now, though.
to think this here world is amazing as it is.
Now I find the idea
of living life without fully appreciating what IS really going on all around you
more of a loss,
than not spending one's life focusing on how great is will be to be a ghost in a party.
I must admit,
that there have been times in my life, where i was mostly oblivious to the wonder all around me. But i am not oblivious anymore.

Most atheists i know, have made the adjustment over to this idea, that THIS HERE WORLD is all there is, too. Of all the humans i know, the ones most in awe of the earth and life as it is now,
are the atheists i know who HAVE begun to focus on learning more about what IS going on all around them,
right here,
right now. (not ALL atheists do this, but the ones who do, seem to share my joy and awe at nature and the universe).



There is a website, "AtheistUniverse.net"
that i belong to,
and my guess is,
that about half of the subgroups and discussions on that atheist site,
are about exploring nature and the world as it is,
learning more about it,
discussing it,
and becoming increasingly amazed at such topics,
the creatures, the amazing lifeforms, the discoveries on the bottom of the ocean, to the surface of Mars,
tons of discussions, about so so many facets about the universe,
That site, and a lifetime of studying
have really helped me open my eyes to the awe all around us.
I learn so much there at that website,
and this knowledge has helped me develop a larger worldview. I now have a far deeper appreciation of nature and the universe than i ever ever did before

---

It is hard to explain how fulfilling such discussions are to me,
hard to explain how much i DO enjoy this type of knowledge, and my urge to learn more
and
more.
and more.


To me,
investing in learning more about what IS real,
feeling awe about what IS real, (i am not kidding, there is enough amazing things in the world as it is, but most ppl miss out on even learning about such things, let alone fully absorbing the awe of nature)
is far more fulfilling,
that anticipating a ghost party that does not even exist so far as anyone knows,
but,
that's just me.

BlueJean4114

http://youtu.be/XGK84Poeynk


i'm not entirely sure,
if my very deep appreciation of science,
of the universe,
of nature,
is truly captured by that vid,
and i am not entirely sure
if you can feel the feeling that i get out of that vid,
but, maybe, that can help you get a glimpse of what i am talking about............it also contains one of my favorite quotes
from one of my favorite heros,
Dr Neil DeGrasse Tyson.


"We are all connected;
To each other, biologically
To the earth, chemically
To the rest of the universe atomically...that makes me smile."
~Neil deGrasse Tyson


We are carbon-based lifeforms,
and that carbon was delivered to this planet,
by a star crashing into earth........we ARE literally born of stardust!!!!!!!!!:noway:

BlueJean4114

I also feel
that suppressing one's critical thinking skills,
is a loss,
too.

I feel that there actually IS a joy in knowledge,
in learning and in exploring,
an appreciation that can run very very deep.

I feel that an atheists can replace the disappointment
of finding out
the afterlife party is sham
with finding even deeper ways to appreciate life here and now,
and express their love to the humans they enjoy more fully here and now
and find ways to honor the humans they once loved but who are now dead, in more meaningful ways,
than to look fwd to thinking up things they will tell them when they see them at the ghost-party.

but yes, it is a process for some atheists,
to adjust to the idea, it can be that ingrained from birth on.
Being rational
and
using one's brain and critical thinking skills more fully
can be a joy in itself.

BlueJean4114

OKAY, if no one asks questions,
i will just take some of the ones i posted above,
and answer them anyway. Other atheists welcome to add their replies, too!

"Well, if you don't believe in god, do you worship the devil, then?"

^note, no one has asked this on this thread, i just added "quote" marks around it.


SHORT ANSWER; "NO"


LONG ANSWER:
We atheists get this one a lot.
Every atheist i know,
is always taken aback by this one, :noway: totally surprised.:laugh: For real, we do NOT understand the leap taken there, it makes no sense to most of us.

I do not worship, nor believe in, the devil. I've met one (1) atheist who does claim to worship the devil,
however, that kid was only 14 years old, and i suspect it was a "phase" he was going through, that he will later outgrow. Other than the one (1) kid,
i've never ever ever met any other atheist who worships the devil,
nor have have met any other atheist who believes in the devil.

See, to most of the atheists i know, the devil is as hard to believe in,
since there is NO evidence,
as it is to believe in any of the gods.

BlueJean4114

you know, i was thinking the other day,
about my comparison to the disappointment of realizing there is no heaven
to kids being told the party they were looking fwd to, is now cancelled,
and i think that is good analogy.

but,
if one was never ever was distracted from enjoying the here and now with being told "the NEXT life is the reeeally GOOD one,:bigsmile: the really perfect thing,:bigsmile: the thing to focus on and reach for...."
and instead is told this here world is amazing, and worth exploring,
then
there is probably less chance such a person would ever have to go through the disappointment
of being told
the party has been cancelled.





cuz, it seems to me, that most atheists,
after they've had time to adapt to the idea
that THIS life is the one to celebrate and revel in,
most do adapt. Near as i can tell, anyway. It can take some longer than others, some can take a year or so to fully wrap their previously-hypnotized brains around a new idea of no dead-ppl party........i can't even remember going through that, really. I had not lost anyone i loved by the time i'd realized there is no heaven.......i think THAT would be hard,
having told yourself, "yes, yes, you will see your mom again when you are a dead person, too":bigsmile:
and
then, realizing, :brokenheart:
"oh no, now i won't see my dead mom when i am a dead person too." It'd be like losing your mom allllllllllll over again, probably:brokenheart: .


but, i hadn't lost anyone i loved a lot
before i realized heaven was not real.
I have noticed, at some family funerals, sometimes i feel sadder than most of my family, cuz most of my family thinks they will see the dead person again, and even imagine what all they will say to them, etc.
but, i don't believe i will see the dead person again. So the notion of heaven can be comfort at funerals, it seems like.
I think this is one reason ppl cry so hard when their dogs die, too,
is, many ppl believe they will never ever see the dead dog ever again, cuz most religions say only humans live forever, cuz humans "have souls", and they believe other lifeforms, like hamsters and dogs and cows, will NOT be ghosts later on.

and atheists who were raised by other atheists, don't go through that let-down of "What? no big dead-people party to look forward to? Waaahh...:sad: .."
thing...................
my kids didn't, anyway, they were told of the heaven/hell concept that is widely held, and i told them they could choose to believe in it, but since my kids were not hypnotized to believe it,
since my kids were not told with authority, that heaven/hell IS 'real' and a sure bet, it was not spoken of in that way,
so they didn't believe it.
and so
they never went thru the disappointment of having to let the idea go when their critical thinking skills developed.


some ppl remember going through a similar disappointment when they found out Santa wasn't real ....:sad:
and that usually only involves a few years of once-a-year mentions...............so a lifetime
of ongoing references to this big dead-ppl party,
throughout even one's adult life,
being told at every funeral "you WILL see them again at the dead-ppl party"
on and on,
for decades,
would indeed, have an even bigger let down
than the only-a-few-years-long
Santa story would.






still one can adapt to new ideas,
adjust, be happy,
even happier than before,
even IF one was hypnotized for decades from birth on. I think
there is a difference
between a disappointment or a let-down following being misled,
and "a depression."

BlueJean4114

ok well thats just a tad depressing

BlueJean4114

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/30/why_are_believers_ignorant_about_atheists/