Women be Women and Men be Men
JanieJack
Posts: 3,830 Member
Am watching Millionaire Matchmaker and was surprised to hear this convo between Patti, Hatch (the guy she sent to chivalry camp), and the chivalry camp instructor.
Wow.. that's soooo not in line w/today's culture. What do you think?
PS: As I typed, another part of the show, one of the girls says she likes a guy with confidence because a guy who isn't confident ends up taking his insecurities out on you. What do you think about THAT??
<Patti and the chivalry camp lady are telling him he needs to open doors, order for the woman>
What if she insists on ordering her own food?
You ask her what she wants because you’re going to order for the table.
But what if she insists she’s grown and can do it herself.
Then that’s not a woman you should be dating
<Patti to the camera>
It is so important for women to be women and men to be men and to keep those roles in tact. It’s worked for millions of years, and the reason is the minute you switch into masculine mode as a feminine woman and you decide you’re going to end up with a son not a husband.
Back to the session:
If that’s my girlfriend for 6 months and she wants to order my food for me what’s wrong with letting her do that?
If you don’t mind being with a shrew who’s going to take over your life –
We’re talking about dinner!
Those are clues. You have to be picking up on everything a woman does.
….
Do you want to get married or just date?
Wow.. that's soooo not in line w/today's culture. What do you think?
PS: As I typed, another part of the show, one of the girls says she likes a guy with confidence because a guy who isn't confident ends up taking his insecurities out on you. What do you think about THAT??
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I think gentlemen have not been ordering for women in restaurants for millions of years. I see needing someone to order your food for you more akin to a parent-child relationship. I haven't needed someone to order for me since I was a child - my parents wouldn't even do that once I was older. As a grown woman who is competent and able to order my own food (much like I can competently grocery shop and cook my own food), why would I now need a man to order for me in a restaurant? I don't see how that makes him masculine. It makes him fatherly, and I'm not looking for a daddy.0
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Well, this makes zero sense:It is so important for women to be women and men to be men and to keep those roles in tact. It’s worked for millions of years, and the reason is the minute you switch into masculine mode as a feminine woman and you decide you’re going to end up with a son not a husband.
Millions of years?? Humans, specifically Homo sapiens, originated in Africa around 200,000 years ago. And probably about 50,000 years ago evolved to the point of being recognizable (behaviorally) as what we would consider humans today. So you're really only talking about 50,000 years, not "millions of years." Not trying to be overly pedantic, but if someone pretends to be an authority, but immediately spouts such obvious nonsense, then you should be overly skeptical from the start about anything else she has to say.
As to her point, I think it's ridiculous. I don't want a passive, zero by my side who is too frail to order her own ham sandwich. I'm sure most men would agree.
Cultures evolve, and typically for the better. It may have been normal 50,000 years ago for the strongest man to have many women who he could rape at will, but I don't think that's how we should organize our society today.
--P0 -
It is so important for women to be women and men to be men and to keep those roles in tact. It’s worked for millions of years, and the reason is the minute you switch into masculine mode as a feminine woman and you decide you’re going to end up with a son not a husband.
Back to the session:
If that’s my girlfriend for 6 months and she wants to order my food for me what’s wrong with letting her do that?
If you don’t mind being with a shrew who’s going to take over your life –
We’re talking about dinner!
Those are clues. You have to be picking up on everything a woman does.
….
Do you want to get married or just date?
Wow.. that's soooo not in line w/today's culture. What do you think?
Yeah it seems out of touch but I'm not a millionaire so I don't know. Maybe they play by a different set of rules? Any millionaires here on 'Single Peeps!' care to chime in?
PS: As I typed, another part of the show, one of the girls says she likes a guy with confidence because a guy who isn't confident ends up taking his insecurities out on you. What do you think about THAT??
I think it's different with every guy but for the most part, guys will. I have witnessed it and experienced it myself.0 -
Are relationships going backwards in America, or what?? What kind of TV prog is this??
A prog like that here would be called satire!
Women fought long and hard for the right to vote, equality and freedom of speech. I'd like it to be able to order my own darn food, thank you very much! :noway:
As for the guy lacking confidence, I can see that some men would take it out on women. The cowardly, spineless type who beat women up, usually :mad:
Janie, it's 9am here and I need to get to work, but thanks for waking me up with thoughts of mass castration of the male species.........:laugh:
j/k (you all know I love men :bigsmile:
Have a nice day, byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :flowerforyou:
PS How's your beard burn?? And the man who did it!! :noway:0 -
Wow! I have no problem with a gentleman placing my order for me, should he wish to do so - it IS a traditional 'gentlemanly' behaviour, like holding doors and chairs, walking on the road side of the pavement etc. However, for someone to say that a woman who wishes to place her own order isn't someone one should be dating is extraordinary. To say that wishing to do so indicates that she's a "shrew who will take over your life" is even more jaw-droppingly out of date - is this a show from the early 1900's?! Women who perpetuate these stereotypes of other women - particularly stereotypes that undercut feminine independence - are, in my opinion, doing more damage than men who spout patriarchal nonsense, and should know better.0
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We have in numerous threads had ladies "cherry pick" certain parts of Victorian chivalry and insist they are a measure of a man,some to the extent of having emotional feelings tied strictly to the actions themselves which in my opinion is possibly problematic for her long term.
Of course one taken to be demeaning now or patronizing is rejected instantly as can be demonstrated here.
As I have said before given that the era most of these traditions came from was not terribly friendly or respectful to women I find clinging to them simply for romantic value strange and self defeating for a woman.
Here is an idea for 2012 and on.
How about everyone treat the other with politeness and mutual respect as a person so as to get to know who they are.0 -
First, I have to say I'm a huge fan of Patti Stanger. She's spot on with 99% of the things she says on her show, Millionaire Matchmaker. She understands men so well, it's almost scary. I think that show should be required viewing for women who want to land a good guy. Guys should also watch the show to learn how to be a gentleman not be such a doofus, like so many of the millionaire guys are.
That being said, I'm a HUGE believer in proper gender roles, meaning that a man should be masculine and a women should be as feminine as possible.
From a male point of view, nothing is more of a turn-off than a women who acts like "one of the guys". When women are crass, curse too much, and drink in excess, it's an enormous turn-off because that the kind of behavior I'd expect from my male friends, not a woman I'm interested in. If a woman really wants to win over a guy, act like a girly girl. Get your hair and nails done, get a nice tan, and acquire cooking skills. All three of those are enormous turn-on's for me.
There's always some leeway here, I really don't care if a woman watches football on the weekends as long as she's wearing something cute and fetching me beers (kidding of course) 0 -
I do love me some Patti Stanger. I think some of the stuff she says is way out in left field - like this - but all in all she is spot on.
I'm the girl that wake up Sunday morning, make breakfast for my guy, be all girly and domestic but then can go into Buffalo Wild Wings on Sunday afternoon, drink beer, curse at a football game, eat wings, then leave and go home and make a 3 course meal for my guy wearing only an apron...LOL. I'm not saying that this has won me any prizes in the dating world but I do believe that women should be women at least 85% of the time. There is nothing wrong with dressing up once in a while, keeping yourself put together and looking good. But I'm also horribly independent and stubborn and have a hard time accepting help. So, there's my 15% of non-girly being.
Now. Boys. This goes both ways. I want to be treated like a lady. I don't want to be treated like a child, your mother, or your therapist. If my oil needs changed, I want you to change it for me. If there's a spider and you are with me in my place, you better not squeal like a girl, kill the darn thing. I don't date much so when I do have a guy in my life I expect him to do man things.
I know I'm gonna get tons of slack for this but I'm a tough cookie, start the tomato throwing ladies!0 -
I am such a double standard. lol. I love for a man to open my door, let me walk through first, pull my chair out, call or text me first, etc etc etc. If I TOLD him what I wanted and then he placed my order for me, I think it would be sweet.
But ... lol .. when I read what kristen6022 wrote .. women should be women, everything in me screamed and cringed. So while I want the man to be the man .. I don't want to be placed in the women should cook and clean and give out babies and walk around naked so her man will have something nice to look at before his game starts and then go fetch him a beer role.
I guess because I do everything, and always did everything when I was married, in terms of all the cooking and cleaning and the mowing and the shopping, changing the light bulbs, geez I even did all the baseboard in our house..OH, and worked a full time job . . To have a guy open my freaking door is nice. lol.
I don't know..It all seems rediculous to me. I am with Carl .. how about everyone just be nice and considerate and do your own ****. lol0 -
Now. Boys. This goes both ways. I want to be treated like a lady. I don't want to be treated like a child, your mother, or your therapist. If my oil needs changed, I want you to change it for me. If there's a spider and you are with me in my place, you better not squeal like a girl, kill the darn thing. I don't date much so when I do have a guy in my life I expect him to do man things.
I agree with you 100% on this.
I'm about as preppy and white collar as they come, but there are things every man should know how to do. Men should know how to fix stuff around the house, know at least something about all sports, be able to handle and shoot a variety of guns, change the oil in their car (or at least be smart enough to get it changed when need be), and stuff like that. You get the point.
Nothing is worse than a guy who's a wishy-washy, mama's boy who squeals when he sees a spider on the porch.0 -
Are relationships going backwards in America, or what?? What kind of TV prog is this??
Yes, yes they are!
And this isn't even the worst of it, Anna.0 -
I like Patty, but she's not perfect.
I do agree with the last part that you added on.
But I have never had a man order my meal for me. I don't think I would mind if he did order for me so long as it was discussed first (ie if a man just ordered with out consulting I would get up and leave). That being said if a man decided not to date me because I decided what to eat for supper instead of letting him do that well thats sad.
But I do feel that I want to be alittle more traditional in my gender roll in dating, not that I wouldn't be independent, ect but let my feminine side take a front seat rather than feel like I have to be in control I would like the guy to be alittle more assertive.0 -
First off, "Millionaire Matchmaker" is pseudo-reality. Reality TV does not reflect real reality.
Then, you have to look at Patti Stanger's own life. She's 51 and not married. Never been married either. Got engaged a few years ago, but it ended up being broken. I will say that a broken engagement is better than getting married and divorced. One would think that a matchmaker would be all about finding long lasting love, and she would have found that for herself 20+ years ago.
With that said, there is some legitimacy to what she said about gender roles. I've never been one who is super strict about gender roles. Men should show some masculine traits and women should show some feminine traits. I usually am an initiator. If I find a woman I want, I make efforts to get her. I ask her out, plan dates, etc. I can kill a bug if need be.0 -
I am such a double standard. lol. I love for a man to open my door, let me walk through first, pull my chair out, call or text me first, etc etc etc. If I TOLD him what I wanted and then he placed my order for me, I think it would be sweet.
To be clear, I assumed this was what was meant, it never ocurred to me that someone might advocate a man ordering for a woman without first asking what she wanted! If not, then you're into a whole 'other world...0 -
Actually, I kinda agree with Patti. I don’t think she’s saying a woman who orders for herself will treat a man bad, but a woman who insists on “I’m grown, I don’t NEED you do to for me” after the man says he will order for the table is probably the kind of woman who wants to exert more control and masculinity than your typical alpha male wants to accept. I see it all the time amongst my female military peers. “Shrew” might be too strong a word, but definitely masculine energy and very controlling.for someone to say that a woman who wishes to place her own order isn't someone one should be dating is extraordinary. To say that wishing to do so indicates that she's a "shrew who will take over your life" is even more jaw-droppingly out of date - is this a show from the early 1900's
And one thing I’m beginning to observe (from talking with others, reading online opinions, and even this board) is that your “typical” alpha male is looking for a less controlling girly girl and your “typical” alpha female is left complaining that she can’t find a good man because she’s not interested in the “typical” beta man who is often attracted to a stronger female personality.I have to say I'm a huge fan of Patti Stanger. She's spot on with 99% of the things she says on her show, Millionaire Matchmaker. She understands men so well, it's almost scary. I think that show should be required viewing for women who want to land a good guy. Guys should also watch the show to learn how to be a gentleman not be such a doofus, like so many of the millionaire guys are.
I watched a couple episodes last night while doing housework, and the phrase “And THIS is why s/he’s still single” came up quite often.PS How's your beard burn?? And the man who did it!!
Can’t tell if you’re really interested or just making a joke… but I know some people are interested so here’s the update on that: My skin scars badly, so I still have this huge brown patch on my chin. He’s… interesting… it’s been 3 months of getting to know each other and he’s still around (and clean shaven) so that’s a good sign ;-). My friends laugh at me, because they say I’m sooo good at calling the game with men in my friends’ lives but am totally clueless about my own (they think he actually likes me for the long haul and I’m not sure).0 -
I am such a double standard. lol. I love for a man to open my door, let me walk through first, pull my chair out, call or text me first, etc etc etc. If I TOLD him what I wanted and then he placed my order for me, I think it would be sweet.
To be clear, I assumed this was what was meant, it never ocurred to me that someone might advocate a man ordering for a woman without first asking what she wanted! If not, then you're into a whole 'other world...
Yes. He was told to ask the woman what she wants to order, and he wanted to know what to do when she insists she'll tell the waiter when he comes.
Maybe it's a Southern thing, but guys here do this quite often and I don't think anything of it. I also don't think anything of it when I tell the waiter what I want. It just naturally happens. But then, I'm also not the kind of woman who, when a man holds the door open, huffs about how I can get it myself.0 -
And one thing I’m beginning to observe (from talking with others, reading online opinions, and even this board) is that your “typical” alpha male is looking for a less controlling girly girl and your “typical” alpha female is left complaining that she can’t find a good man because she’s not interested in the “typical” beta man who is often attracted to a stronger female personality.
I really believe that any so called "alpha male" who can't handle an assertive woman is not really an alpha male. He's a poseur male, with his overly sensitive ego bruised just because he's with a confident woman.
Of course, there's a big difference between a woman who is confident, intelligent, and assertive, and a woman who is manly in demeanor. Who doesn't dress like a woman. Who doesn't walk like a woman. Etc., etc. But confident and feminine are not mutually exclusive.
--P0 -
And one thing I’m beginning to observe (from talking with others, reading online opinions, and even this board) is that your “typical” alpha male is looking for a less controlling girly girl and your “typical” alpha female is left complaining that she can’t find a good man because she’s not interested in the “typical” beta man who is often attracted to a stronger female personality.
That is a bit of puzzler. An alpha female needs someone even more alpha than they are, which can be a challenge, depending upon how alpha the female is. This is a part of why big time career women struggle with finding men to stick around over an extended period of time. Your Harvard B School McKinsey consultant females in New York aren't going to be satisfied by a Starbucks barista or even an run of the mill guy.0 -
And one thing I’m beginning to observe (from talking with others, reading online opinions, and even this board) is that your “typical” alpha male is looking for a less controlling girly girl and your “typical” alpha female is left complaining that she can’t find a good man because she’s not interested in the “typical” beta man who is often attracted to a stronger female personality.
I really believe that any so called "alpha male" who can't handle an assertive woman is not really an alpha male. He's a poseur male, with his overly sensitive ego bruised just because he's with a confident woman.
Of course, there's a big difference between a woman who is confident, intelligent, and assertive, and a woman who is manly in demeanor. Who doesn't dress like a woman. Who doesn't walk like a woman. Etc., etc. But confident and feminine are not mutually exclusive.
--P
Precisely! Agreement and thanks to Prague from London.
Actually, I kinda agree with Patti. I don’t think she’s saying a woman who orders for herself will treat a man bad, but a woman who insists on “I’m grown, I don’t NEED you do to for me” after the man says he will order for the table is probably the kind of woman who wants to exert more control and masculinity than your typical alpha male wants to accept. I see it all the time amongst my female military peers. “Shrew” might be too strong a word, but definitely masculine energy and very controlling.for someone to say that a woman who wishes to place her own order isn't someone one should be dating is extraordinary. To say that wishing to do so indicates that she's a "shrew who will take over your life" is even more jaw-droppingly out of date - is this a show from the early 1900's
Sure - of course there's a difference between asserting oneself politely, and expecting that someone will respect your wishes in that regard, and making a public scene or becoming stroppy because a man behaves in a traditionally-respectful manner that does you no harm. There's a gracious way to handle any situation.
I know there are some women who object, vociferously, to any action - doors held open, being offered a seat - that they feel demeans them as individuals. To be honest, I don't see the point in "sweating the small stuff" if it doesn't actually harm you, and I suspect this sort of behaviour reflects the insecurities of the woman concerned more than anything else.
However, I read the situation as Patty (sorry - don't actually know who she is!) saying that any woman who expressed her wish to order for herself, politely or otherwise, is a bad choice to date, which seems to me utterly absurd. Quite apart from anything else, it's hardly practical given the number of servers who take the 'ladies first' approach rather than expecting the gentleman to order for his companion. Should a woman in that situation cause a scene/confusion by deferring conspicuously to her male companion?!0 -
First, I have to say I'm a huge fan of Patti Stanger. She's spot on with 99% of the things she says on her show, Millionaire Matchmaker. She understands men so well, it's almost scary. I think that show should be required viewing for women who want to land a good guy. Guys should also watch the show to learn how to be a gentleman not be such a doofus, like so many of the millionaire guys are.
That being said, I'm a HUGE believer in proper gender roles, meaning that a man should be masculine and a women should be as feminine as possible.
From a male point of view, nothing is more of a turn-off than a women who acts like "one of the guys". When women are crass, curse too much, and drink in excess, it's an enormous turn-off because that the kind of behavior I'd expect from my male friends, not a woman I'm interested in. If a woman really wants to win over a guy, act like a girly girl. Get your hair and nails done, get a nice tan, and acquire cooking skills. All three of those are enormous turn-on's for me.
There's always some leeway here, I really don't care if a woman watches football on the weekends as long as she's wearing something cute and fetching me beers (kidding of course)
I've never watched this show, but from what I've read here, I have to say that she does NOT understand MEN so well. She understands some men. To think that all men were brought it with some universal code of manners is ridiculous! Some of this is also very regional. I would expect this much more in the south in the USA. I wasn't raised in the USA. This year was the first time I have ever gone out with someone who has done all the chivalry stuff like always opening my car door and ordering for me. I let him do it because I think dating is about finding some middle ground on things like this if you like a person for the more important elements of their character. The chivalry stuff is not going to win my affections over. I want to see genuine acts of kindness rather than these programmed behaviors of manners. I think people need to remember that the world is diverse and a behavior is expected in one region is not the norm elsewhere, so it doesn't say anything about how good a date/potential mate that person is.
I used to have no trouble attracting really great guys from my wide friends' circle when I was at university drinking and cursing too much out at bars with them! Even married one of them in the end. He never pulled out chairs for me or ordered for me - and you know what? I didn't notice the difference! I manage to go through my day to day life opening my own doors and pulling out my own chair that it just doesn't dawm on me to expect someone to do that. I guess I must be a shrew! I will change that by standing helplessly at every door from now on waiting for a big strong man to come along and open it for me. That said, I'm not sure how I'll ever be able to get out of my own house and drive myself anywhere again though.
You've got that right. That's just too controlling. Is a guy like that going to order something like a salad to make sure she doesn't get fat? That would be a huge red flag to me and I would imagine the need to control his woman would extend far beyond determining what she's going to eat.I don't think I would mind if he did order for me so long as it was discussed first (ie if a man just ordered with out consulting I would get up and leave). That being said if a man decided not to date me because I decided what to eat for supper instead of letting him do that well thats sad.0 -
I believe in traditional gender roles to an extent, but I'm much more of a believer in chemistry and happiness and that almost everything is very relationship specific. Nobody can honestly tell me that two people can't be happy unless they embrace traditional gender roles. I do find femininity a bit of a turn on but when done in excess it gets really annoying.
I will never understand the concepts of the man ordering for the woman or opening car doors for them. That would be like going on a date with a handicapped mute. I'm perfectly capable of making decisions, but why would I want to date someone who can't think for themselves or even open doors. Some people ay say it's chivalry. First of all, it's the 21st century, that word doesn't really mean anything anymore. Second of all, I like to help people with things that they struggle with or can't do by themselves, opening car doors is not one of those things. Why don't I come over to your house and brush your teeth for you while I'm at it?
So the fact that she says things like "you’re going to end up with a son not a husband" is a bit hypocritical. I want to end up with a wife, not a daughter.0 -
Here is a situation hopefully that is food for thought.
You are a lady and your date has just driven the both of you to dinner.
He parks,gets out and comes to the car door to open it for you and closes it behind.
You both walk to the door and he quickly reaches out and opens it for you to slip inside.
It happens that there is a lone guy also following and your date glances back at him and proceeds to enter behind you letting the door to shut behind him.
Of these events what truly indicates the quality of his character and manners?0 -
Letting the door shut on someone is just plain rude (assuming they are right behind and that the person wouldn't have to stand holding the door open for a solid minute for the person to get there).
Where I think you see character with this sort of thing is the person who rushes to hold the door open for someone (male or female!) struggling with a bunch of bags or boxes, or a stroller. That shows consideration for another person and trying to make their life a little easier in some small way. That's how I was raised and I will hold the door open for little old ladies and men or overwhelmed young mothers. There is no gender role there - just being decent if you are able-bodied and someone needs help.
I really object to the idea that having a different view on these gender roles and behaviors that Patti woman is espousing would make me be behaving more masculine.0 -
Yes, there's a difference between being a strong woman and being "butch"!And one thing I’m beginning to observe (from talking with others, reading online opinions, and even this board) is that your “typical” alpha male is looking for a less controlling girly girl and your “typical” alpha female is left complaining that she can’t find a good man because she’s not interested in the “typical” beta man who is often attracted to a stronger female personality.
I really believe that any so called "alpha male" who can't handle an assertive woman is not really an alpha male. He's a poseur male, with his overly sensitive ego bruised just because he's with a confident woman.
Of course, there's a big difference between a woman who is confident, intelligent, and assertive, and a woman who is manly in demeanor. Who doesn't dress like a woman. Who doesn't walk like a woman. Etc., etc. But confident and feminine are not mutually exclusive.
--P0 -
Letting the door shut on someone is just plain rude (assuming they are right behind and that the person wouldn't have to stand holding the door open for a solid minute for the person to get there).
Where I think you see character with this sort of thing is the person who rushes to hold the door open for someone (male or female!) struggling with a bunch of bags or boxes, or a stroller. That shows consideration for another person and trying to make their life a little easier in some small way. That's how I was raised and I will hold the door open for little old ladies and men or overwhelmed young mothers. There is no gender role there - just being decent if you are able-bodied and someone needs help.
I really object to the idea that having a different view on these gender roles and behaviors that Patti woman is espousing would make me be behaving more masculine.
Exactly and my point.
One shows the person and the other how well he may know the script.
Why I say beware being swayed by feelings attached to things that in no way reveal the persons true character.0 -
I do love me some Patti Stanger. I think some of the stuff she says is way out in left field - like this - but all in all she is spot on.
I'm the girl that wake up Sunday morning, make breakfast for my guy, be all girly and domestic but then can go into Buffalo Wild Wings on Sunday afternoon, drink beer, curse at a football game, eat wings, then leave and go home and make a 3 course meal for my guy wearing only an apron...LOL. I'm not saying that this has won me any prizes in the dating world but I do believe that women should be women at least 85% of the time. There is nothing wrong with dressing up once in a while, keeping yourself put together and looking good. But I'm also horribly independent and stubborn and have a hard time accepting help. So, there's my 15% of non-girly being.
Now. Boys. This goes both ways. I want to be treated like a lady. I don't want to be treated like a child, your mother, or your therapist. If my oil needs changed, I want you to change it for me. If there's a spider and you are with me in my place, you better not squeal like a girl, kill the darn thing. I don't date much so when I do have a guy in my life I expect him to do man things.
I know I'm gonna get tons of slack for this but I'm a tough cookie, start the tomato throwing ladies!
I so agree with this 100% Could not have said it better. I am not the one to be girly and frilly. I play in the dirt, I do not get my nails done, I may wear makeup on occasion, but please I implore of you, do not order my food for me, instead allow me to go first, that to me is gentlemanly. Open doors for me, but if I get there first, I will open it for you. I can hang with the boys, cook you a mean dinner, and romp with you like it is an Olympic sport.0 -
Wow. Really?? I hope you’re just trying to stir up discussion :flowerforyou: I get doors opened for me all the time. Almost always to go in a building (even by guys I’m not dating) and about half of the time to go into the car (dating or not). If I take too long getting my stuff together/putting my lipstick/etc and don’t beat him to it, one particular guy actually opens the car door for me to get out as well. Life is too short for me to be offended by this.I will never understand the concepts of the man ordering for the woman or opening car doors for them. That would be like going on a date with a handicapped mute.
How on earth does telling the guy what I want to order so that he orders for the table mean I can’t think? A man doesn’t order for me often, but when it has, it’s always been a natural extension of the preceding “what are you getting? I don’t know, what are you getting” discussion that happens at dinner. Not some sort of “I’m the big man and you’re the little woman” thing that many of these posts seem to portray.I'm perfectly capable of making decisions, but why would I want to date someone who can't think for themselves or even open doors.
How on earth does letting someone get the door for me signal that I can’t make decisions or think? It doesn’t say that I’m weak. It doesn’t mean I can’t lift or carry, or think. I am stronger than many men (intellectually and physically) and this doesn’t offend or demean me in any way. In fact, I honestly think it makes men feel more at ease that as accomplished as I am they can still be “the man” with me.
I’ve only watched a handful of episodes so I’m no expert on her show… but the women on there who get this advice to back off, let the man take the lead and stop being so controlling are the ones who, when you watch them, are scaring off all the decent guys by coming on too strong. These women ARE the ones who come on Patti’s show complaining that they only end up with men who turn into “sons” they have to do everything for. So I think she’s on to something here.0 -
Why I say beware being swayed by feelings attached to things that in no way reveal the persons true character.
You're making this hypothetical argument... BUT ... I've never seen someone hold the door for me and let it fall on another's face, even if the person behind us was a guy.
If I were to see something like that, then I would assume that the man holding my door wasn’t truly a gentleman, but just trying to act like one because it’s so effective at seducing women.0 -
Ok I have a couple of opinions on this one.
1.. I have had a man order for me. He phrased it very diplomatically and was very polite about. Usually however whenever I go out everyone orders for themselves. Even my kids order for themselves when we go out lol.
2.. Women be women--- I get soooo tired of hearing this phrase. I was a tomboy all through high school. I wear make up to go out I cook amazing meals and I (on occasion) wear heels when I dress nice. However I free the spiders from my house. Can shoot better than most guys I know, collect weapons and mown my own yard. I also love football and action movies. IT has never hurt my dating life lol. Though I dont wear heels right now cause MR. Nice Guy is my height. I also cuss like a salior and have no problem giving you my opinion lol... But then I mostly date rockers, metal heads, or Nerdy/Geeky guys and they like that stuff. I guess it depends on what kind of guy you want to attract.
The one I always hear that kills me is "you should let the guy win and not be competitive it turns him off"-- I'm super competitive and if that intimidates you oh well lol0 -
[I really believe that any so called "alpha male" who can't handle an assertive woman is not really an alpha male. He's a poseur male, with his overly sensitive ego bruised just because he's with a confident woman.
Of course, there's a big difference between a woman who is confident, intelligent, and assertive, and a woman who is manly in demeanor. Who doesn't dress like a woman. Who doesn't walk like a woman. Etc., etc. But confident and feminine are not mutually exclusive.
--P
I knew I liked you. YES. YES. YES.0
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