Do men really feel this way?

julesboots

Yes - men also lead women on! I know two musicians in particular who keep an entire HERD of female admirers who are NOT their lovers but give a kind of maternal support. the women often find some kind of "excuse" to be near them - offer them gigs or recording opportunities or even become their students. The guys apparently need the wide-eyed admiration and the women are too frightened to declare their true feelings because they know they will be rejected. I have thought in the past that the men KNEW what they were doing, but after talking with them about it, I now think they are so needy in their own ways, that they just do not understand what they are doing to lead on the "groupies."

This is a good point. I've know lots of men wanting that "wide eyed admiration." Usually musicians, visual artists, and professors, but could be anyone. The ones who do this tend to have a group they are/would sleep with, and another group that seems to provide hero worship reassurance.

Jarnard

I think it works both ways... it appears that women and men have a hard time having a platonic relationship with out one of them wanting physical attention. My opinion.

Prahasaurus

I'm realizing, yes, they feel this way more than I had ever realized.

I had a difficult early summer break up, a male friend swooped in to support and rescue, etc. and then he asked for a relationship. I didn't ask him for the emotional support, but I took it when it was offered, so I feel some mixed guilt because I sort of knew it was a quid pro quo situation.

If he only helped for sex, screw that guy (not literally, in fact the opposite). I mean, what kind of loser offers emotional support on the condition - or at least the expectation - you'll sleep with him? Just pathetic. And I absolutely disagree with the statement that it's just absolutely awful when women fail to "put out" after getting emotional support from a man. Again, wtf?

Sure, being there for someone and offering emotional support can lead to a relationship. But there shouldn't be any quid pro quo in friendships. You help someone when they're down. If you expect something in return, other than their appreciation, you're a terrible human being.

--P

onedayillbeamilf

This unfortunately is the story of my life. I become romantically interested in women, and then bend over backwards to make them happy. Even after I know it won't go anywhere romantically I still continue hoping "they will come to their senses".

This is so beyond creepy to me.

I have several platonic guy friends and though I'm sure if I walked out of the bathroom naked saying "let's ****" they'd be down, that doesn't mean we're not friends. It means that we are animals with instincts and fun bits.

On that note if I went to one of the aforementioned guy friends because I was having an emotional issue that I needed advice on and at the end he turned around and said "let's ****" I would be utterly livid. The point of our friendship is NOT sexual and it's very CLEARLY not sexual.

I don't go around expecting all guys to be my emotional support, my feelings are not something I trust someone with lightly so if I found out that after all this time "he" was waiting around for me to give up and settle on him or, as it's so interestingly worded, "come to my senses" that would be betrayal. It means that he never cared about my feelings, he never listened and shared and helped because he wanted to be a good friend and because he saw me as a good friend. It would mean that everything was based on a lie and all that mattered was my poontang and potential access to it.

So I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that that is the worst thing I could possibly do to a man. I am not USING him (him is arbitrary in this context) any more than I USE any other person I count on, trust and love. That is what friends, real friends, do for each other. That is the basis and entirety of the relationship. I have a different type of relationship with people that I have sex with.

There is something to be said for girls that intentionally use a guy because they know he's interested in them and it is a horrible thing to do to someone. Just like it's horrible for a guy to just use a girl for sex because he knows she likes him and is willing. Hell, you could switch that up and I'm sure everyone would be upset all over again! Using someone is hurtful to all genders not just men.

Thanks for calling me creepy for being a nice guy and actively working to try to show someone that I'm worth their time.

You rock! :flowerforyou:

I didn't say you were creepy, I was saying that mentality is creepy - you yourself acknowledged that it's not a positive thing.

Also, it isn't nice for you to have an agenda like that. It's deceptive and dishonest. You are playing at being friends when you really don't have an interest in being friends, you want more and you aren't being open about it. It's underhanded and it's wrong.

Even now you aren't being honest with me. Instead of coming out and addressing that you felt insulted so I could have an opportunity to clarify, you turned passive aggressive, played at the "nice guy" with a cute little emoticon and for what? Did it make you feel good? Did you hope I would simply take back everything and "come to my senses" about how very very wrong I am?

Allow me to preemptively say, I don't think you're a bad dude. I'm not angry at you. I don't think you're skeezy and a creep. I think that, like many of us here on MFP (and please please do not see this as an insult), you have low self-esteem and that one of the symptoms of that is the attitude you take toward being the nice guy in the hopes that one of the girls you pine after will suddenly realize how awesome you are. But in the meantime my ultimate point for the entirety of the thread, is literally that as much as it hurts you to suffer, the girl is not being a "user" for being friends with a guy and not having sex with him.

I don't know you, but I.like you.

Savemyshannon

If he only helped for sex, screw that guy (not literally, in fact the opposite). I mean, what kind of loser offers emotional support on the condition - or at least the expectation - you'll sleep with him? Just pathetic. And I absolutely disagree with the statement that it's just absolutely awful when women fail to "put out" after getting emotional support from a man. Again, wtf?

Sure, being there for someone and offering emotional support can lead to a relationship. But there shouldn't be any quid pro quo in friendships. You help someone when they're down. If you expect something in return, other than their appreciation, you're a terrible human being.

--P

This. Perfect. ^^^ Normally a lurker, but I had to participate in this discussion.

I think the idea that women are expected to 'put out' in exchange for emotional support is asinine. If you're my friend, I expect to be able to lean on you, regardless of it you're male, female, single, married or hell, even if we're just friends and we DO have chemistry and maybe SOME day we will become a couple. And the same goes for my friends: they can call me up any time of the day for emotional support and I will not expect sex at the end of that conversation. That's what being a friend is. Do guys expect their male friends to come give them sex every time they have to actually be a friend?

Yes, it's possible to be a friend to someone and then something comes from that in a natural way. But to be a friend with the expectation that she's going to eventually have sex with you because now she "owes you one" is disgusting. And would you really want to have sex with someone who didn't find you attractive but now felt obligated to do it, anyways?

I'll let Morpheus sum it up for me:

TheKitsune6

This unfortunately is the story of my life. I become romantically interested in women, and then bend over backwards to make them happy. Even after I know it won't go anywhere romantically I still continue hoping "they will come to their senses".

This is so beyond creepy to me.

I have several platonic guy friends and though I'm sure if I walked out of the bathroom naked saying "let's ****" they'd be down, that doesn't mean we're not friends. It means that we are animals with instincts and fun bits.

On that note if I went to one of the aforementioned guy friends because I was having an emotional issue that I needed advice on and at the end he turned around and said "let's ****" I would be utterly livid. The point of our friendship is NOT sexual and it's very CLEARLY not sexual.

I don't go around expecting all guys to be my emotional support, my feelings are not something I trust someone with lightly so if I found out that after all this time "he" was waiting around for me to give up and settle on him or, as it's so interestingly worded, "come to my senses" that would be betrayal. It means that he never cared about my feelings, he never listened and shared and helped because he wanted to be a good friend and because he saw me as a good friend. It would mean that everything was based on a lie and all that mattered was my poontang and potential access to it.

So I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that that is the worst thing I could possibly do to a man. I am not USING him (him is arbitrary in this context) any more than I USE any other person I count on, trust and love. That is what friends, real friends, do for each other. That is the basis and entirety of the relationship. I have a different type of relationship with people that I have sex with.

There is something to be said for girls that intentionally use a guy because they know he's interested in them and it is a horrible thing to do to someone. Just like it's horrible for a guy to just use a girl for sex because he knows she likes him and is willing. Hell, you could switch that up and I'm sure everyone would be upset all over again! Using someone is hurtful to all genders not just men.

Thanks for calling me creepy for being a nice guy and actively working to try to show someone that I'm worth their time.

You rock! :flowerforyou:

I didn't say you were creepy, I was saying that mentality is creepy - you yourself acknowledged that it's not a positive thing.

Also, it isn't nice for you to have an agenda like that. It's deceptive and dishonest. You are playing at being friends when you really don't have an interest in being friends, you want more and you aren't being open about it. It's underhanded and it's wrong.

Even now you aren't being honest with me. Instead of coming out and addressing that you felt insulted so I could have an opportunity to clarify, you turned passive aggressive, played at the "nice guy" with a cute little emoticon and for what? Did it make you feel good? Did you hope I would simply take back everything and "come to my senses" about how very very wrong I am?

Allow me to preemptively say, I don't think you're a bad dude. I'm not angry at you. I don't think you're skeezy and a creep. I think that, like many of us here on MFP (and please please do not see this as an insult), you have low self-esteem and that one of the symptoms of that is the attitude you take toward being the nice guy in the hopes that one of the girls you pine after will suddenly realize how awesome you are. But in the meantime my ultimate point for the entirety of the thread, is literally that as much as it hurts you to suffer, the girl is not being a "user" for being friends with a guy and not having sex with him.

I don't know you, but I.like you.

Oh, you :blushing:

adoreabella

I am on the other side of this. One of my ex-best friends helped me get out of a highly abusive relationship. He was there for everything, did things for me he doesn't do for anyone else, hugged, kissed me, spent the night with me, spent tons of time with me, etc. Then when I asked him for a relationship he flipped out at me and told me he doesn't like me that like, etc. Makes no sense to me and because of it we are no longer friends.

DMZ_1

I am on the other side of this. One of my ex-best friends helped me get out of a highly abusive relationship. He was there for everything, did things for me he doesn't do for anyone else, hugged, kissed me, spent the night with me, spent tons of time with me, etc. Then when I asked him for a relationship he flipped out at me and told me he doesn't like me that like, etc. Makes no sense to me and because of it we are no longer friends.

He wasn't physically attracted to you and he had other options. If a guy is attracted to you physically and other elements are copacetic, he would want a relationship.

Laura_Suzie

This is arguable the worst thing you can do to a guy, use him for emotional support, then not give him any physical action. Horrible.

This statement from another thread got me thinking about guys over the years who have showered me with time, attention and even gifts. I thought they were just enjoying the company of a friend- much like I enjoy spending time with my friends and treating them to little gifts. The time we spent talking I enjoyed in its own right. I would be saddened to think that after mutually being friends, a man who heard my heart and also poured out some of his heart wouldn’t be satisfied with that emotional exchange but then also expect some kind of physical action as well.

Since the guys in question weren’t “more than friends” it never occurred to me that they might feel like I owed them any more appreciation than enjoying our time spent together.

What do you all think?

I think saying that women owe you sex is disgusting. I'm so sick of men acting like the only worthwhile thing a woman can give them is sex. Women have other valuable traits. I feel like sex is looked at as a bartering chip women are supposed to use to gain security and protection from men.

julesboots

I'm realizing, yes, they feel this way more than I had ever realized.

I had a difficult early summer break up, a male friend swooped in to support and rescue, etc. and then he asked for a relationship. I didn't ask him for the emotional support, but I took it when it was offered, so I feel some mixed guilt because I sort of knew it was a quid pro quo situation.

If he only helped for sex, screw that guy (not literally, in fact the opposite). I mean, what kind of loser offers emotional support on the condition - or at least the expectation - you'll sleep with him? Just pathetic. And I absolutely disagree with the statement that it's just absolutely awful when women fail to "put out" after getting emotional support from a man. Again, wtf?

Sure, being there for someone and offering emotional support can lead to a relationship. But there shouldn't be any quid pro quo in friendships. You help someone when they're down. If you expect something in return, other than their appreciation, you're a terrible human being.

--P

Aww, thanks. I've been questioning myself on this friendship today, so this is nice to hear. I've put a lot of effort into him lately (helped him clean his garage, hosted a few dinners and kid play times) trying to coax him out of sulky hurt feelings, and I'm getting nothing back except an exhaustive ongoing disagreement about elementary schools. This tells me that yeah-I should (not literally) screw him.

toriaenator

i dont think you can just lump all guys into one category...there are definitely a lot of guys who think this way but there are just as many who dont. its kind of as if a guy said "do all girls need sex to be super meaningful and do they always need to bring in the emotional baggage" sure, some girls are like this but many are not ^^

atjays

It's not a matter of feeling "owed" something in return for us listening to you. If the person isn't a shallow *kitten* as discussed above, then he most likely has some deep seeded feelings he's wanting to explore, and yes some intimacy is kind of required but not necessarily what he's solely after.