Soldier to Sue - ALL Muslims 'terrorists'
Koldnomore
Posts: 1,613 Member
A soldier is suing his commander for NOT considering ALL Muslims as terrorists?
This type of blatant racism in the military should shock us all and yet the fact that it is occurring shows how deep the lack of tolerance and understanding of other cultures and religions really goes in one of the world's largest military forces.
Full article: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/lawsuit-total-war-islam/The Army officer who once taught that the U.S. ought to consider “Hiroshima tactics” for a “total war” on Islam has put America’s top general on notice for a possible lawsuit. Lt. Col. Matthew Dooley is accusing the government of concealing “the truth about Islam” at a time when proponents of his view of an inevitable clash between Islam and the West have succeeded at fanning precisely those flames.
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Dooley considered the reduction of Islam to a “cult status” an acceptable outcome of what he considered a civilizational war. Accordingly, his instructional material is reminiscent of The Innocence of Muslims, the anti-Islam video that was used as a pretext in the Middle East over the past week for anti-American protests. Dooley was removed from the college and received an administrative reprimand for teaching material that Dempsey called “totally objectionable, against our values and it wasn’t academically sound.”
This type of blatant racism in the military should shock us all and yet the fact that it is occurring shows how deep the lack of tolerance and understanding of other cultures and religions really goes in one of the world's largest military forces.
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A soldier is suing his commander for NOT considering ALL Muslims as terrorists?
Full article: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/lawsuit-total-war-islam/The Army officer who once taught that the U.S. ought to consider “Hiroshima tactics” for a “total war” on Islam has put America’s top general on notice for a possible lawsuit. Lt. Col. Matthew Dooley is accusing the government of concealing “the truth about Islam” at a time when proponents of his view of an inevitable clash between Islam and the West have succeeded at fanning precisely those flames.
...
Dooley considered the reduction of Islam to a “cult status” an acceptable outcome of what he considered a civilizational war. Accordingly, his instructional material is reminiscent of The Innocence of Muslims, the anti-Islam video that was used as a pretext in the Middle East over the past week for anti-American protests. Dooley was removed from the college and received an administrative reprimand for teaching material that Dempsey called “totally objectionable, against our values and it wasn’t academically sound.”
This type of blatant racism in the military should shock us all and yet the fact that it is occurring shows how deep the lack of tolerance and understanding of other cultures and religions really goes in one of the world's largest military forces.
Yes. One soldiers actions represent everyones stance.
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A soldier is suing his commander for NOT considering ALL Muslims as terrorists?
Full article: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/lawsuit-total-war-islam/The Army officer who once taught that the U.S. ought to consider “Hiroshima tactics” for a “total war” on Islam has put America’s top general on notice for a possible lawsuit. Lt. Col. Matthew Dooley is accusing the government of concealing “the truth about Islam” at a time when proponents of his view of an inevitable clash between Islam and the West have succeeded at fanning precisely those flames.
...
Dooley considered the reduction of Islam to a “cult status” an acceptable outcome of what he considered a civilizational war. Accordingly, his instructional material is reminiscent of The Innocence of Muslims, the anti-Islam video that was used as a pretext in the Middle East over the past week for anti-American protests. Dooley was removed from the college and received an administrative reprimand for teaching material that Dempsey called “totally objectionable, against our values and it wasn’t academically sound.”
This type of blatant racism in the military should shock us all and yet the fact that it is occurring shows how deep the lack of tolerance and understanding of other cultures and religions really goes in one of the world's largest military forces.
Yes. One soldiers actions represent everyones stance.
Seriously.... Man, I'm gonna have to start assuming that everyone I know in the military is a racist, then because it's unbeknownst to me.
Back to the topic, this guy is an idiot, pure and simple.... and there are idiots (and racists) everywhere unfortunately... that doesn't mean however, that just because the news likes to showcase the nutjobs that everyone in that group is a nutjob. Or that there is "blatant racism" within a group of people (military or otherwise).... stereotyping the military (in this case) as such is no better than what this guy (or others like him) is doing.0 -
While I'm sure there are elements of culture that bind service members together in ways that those of us who don't serve can't relate to in a direct way, we should also keep in mind that our military probably represents a decent cross section of the US. And there's lots of racist idiots out there. Thus, there are probably a fair few racist idiots in the military.
Should those who serve in our military be held to a higher standard than the rest of us in this regard? I think think that's closer to the real issue here. I don't know that I have an answer for that. I think there are ways in which service members are held to higher standards and it's appropriate. My guess is that most people probably feel like you can be a racist twerp all you want, just don't let it impact your job. A pointless lawsuit is probably impacting people's jobs and that's a problem.0 -
A soldier is suing his commander for NOT considering ALL Muslims as terrorists?
Full article: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/lawsuit-total-war-islam/The Army officer who once taught that the U.S. ought to consider “Hiroshima tactics” for a “total war” on Islam has put America’s top general on notice for a possible lawsuit. Lt. Col. Matthew Dooley is accusing the government of concealing “the truth about Islam” at a time when proponents of his view of an inevitable clash between Islam and the West have succeeded at fanning precisely those flames.
...
Dooley considered the reduction of Islam to a “cult status” an acceptable outcome of what he considered a civilizational war. Accordingly, his instructional material is reminiscent of The Innocence of Muslims, the anti-Islam video that was used as a pretext in the Middle East over the past week for anti-American protests. Dooley was removed from the college and received an administrative reprimand for teaching material that Dempsey called “totally objectionable, against our values and it wasn’t academically sound.”
This type of blatant racism in the military should shock us all and yet the fact that it is occurring shows how deep the lack of tolerance and understanding of other cultures and religions really goes in one of the world's largest military forces.
Yes. One soldiers actions represent everyones stance.
Exactly, of all my friends that have served, only one thinks that way, and he is suffering from severe PTSD. Most are very tolerant and any of them who work with the other Muslim citizens when deployed know that not all of them are bad.
Oddly enough, all of my friends who have served or are currently deployed feel we shouldn't even be there.0 -
A soldier is suing his commander for NOT considering ALL Muslims as terrorists?
Full article: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/lawsuit-total-war-islam/The Army officer who once taught that the U.S. ought to consider “Hiroshima tactics” for a “total war” on Islam has put America’s top general on notice for a possible lawsuit. Lt. Col. Matthew Dooley is accusing the government of concealing “the truth about Islam” at a time when proponents of his view of an inevitable clash between Islam and the West have succeeded at fanning precisely those flames.
...
Dooley considered the reduction of Islam to a “cult status” an acceptable outcome of what he considered a civilizational war. Accordingly, his instructional material is reminiscent of The Innocence of Muslims, the anti-Islam video that was used as a pretext in the Middle East over the past week for anti-American protests. Dooley was removed from the college and received an administrative reprimand for teaching material that Dempsey called “totally objectionable, against our values and it wasn’t academically sound.”
This type of blatant racism in the military should shock us all and yet the fact that it is occurring shows how deep the lack of tolerance and understanding of other cultures and religions really goes in one of the world's largest military forces.
That soldier is as representative of the US military as an extremist is representative of Islam.0 -
A soldier is suing his commander for NOT considering ALL Muslims as terrorists?
Full article: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/lawsuit-total-war-islam/The Army officer who once taught that the U.S. ought to consider “Hiroshima tactics” for a “total war” on Islam has put America’s top general on notice for a possible lawsuit. Lt. Col. Matthew Dooley is accusing the government of concealing “the truth about Islam” at a time when proponents of his view of an inevitable clash between Islam and the West have succeeded at fanning precisely those flames.
...
Dooley considered the reduction of Islam to a “cult status” an acceptable outcome of what he considered a civilizational war. Accordingly, his instructional material is reminiscent of The Innocence of Muslims, the anti-Islam video that was used as a pretext in the Middle East over the past week for anti-American protests. Dooley was removed from the college and received an administrative reprimand for teaching material that Dempsey called “totally objectionable, against our values and it wasn’t academically sound.”
This type of blatant racism in the military should shock us all and yet the fact that it is occurring shows how deep the lack of tolerance and understanding of other cultures and religions really goes in one of the world's largest military forces.
Yes. One soldiers actions represent everyones stance.
Seriously.... Man, I'm gonna have to start assuming that everyone I know in the military is a racist, then because it's unbeknownst to me.
Back to the topic, this guy is an idiot, pure and simple.... and there are idiots (and racists) everywhere unfortunately... that doesn't mean however, that just because the news likes to showcase the nutjobs that everyone in that group is a nutjob. Or that there is "blatant racism" within a group of people (military or otherwise).... stereotyping the military (in this case) as such is no better than what this guy (or others like him) is doing.
I am more concerned that he reached the rank of Lt. Col.0 -
I've never heard of an officer suing someone in his chain of command. At first blush, it sounded completely groundless to me since part of serving in the military is an explicit limitation on your first amendment rights. But after a little research, I think this guy might have a better case than I first assumed, but only because the National Defense University is different from the rest of the military . . . at least according to their published policies on academic freedom:
http://www.thomasmore.org/sites/default/files/files/Excerpts on Free Speech and Academic Freedom NDU
Faculty%20Handbook.pdf
Granted, those are excerpts chosen by the lawyers for this potential plaintiff.
And understand that I'm not defending this guy's views, only his right to hold them no matter how much I disagree with him.0 -
I've never heard of an officer suing someone in his chain of command. At first blush, it sounded completely groundless to me since part of serving in the military is an explicit limitation on your first amendment rights. But after a little research, I think this guy might have a better case than I first assumed, but only because the National Defense University is different from the rest of the military . . . at least according to their published policies on academic freedom:
http://www.thomasmore.org/sites/default/files/files/Excerpts on Free Speech and Academic Freedom NDU
Faculty%20Handbook.pdf
Granted, those are excerpts chosen by the lawyers for this potential plaintiff.
And understand that I'm not defending this guy's views, only his right to hold them no matter how much I disagree with him.
This intrigued me enough to look at it. But when I used the link, gave me the website, but a page not found within the website. I didn't think he was going to have a case at all being that, well, he's goverment issue right now. This should be a great conversation topic this weekend with all the military family members I will be seeing this weekend.
But I still think this DB doesn't represent every service man in our grand military.0 -
I've never heard of an officer suing someone in his chain of command. At first blush, it sounded completely groundless to me since part of serving in the military is an explicit limitation on your first amendment rights. But after a little research, I think this guy might have a better case than I first assumed, but only because the National Defense University is different from the rest of the military . . . at least according to their published policies on academic freedom:
http://www.thomasmore.org/sites/default/files/files/Excerpts on Free Speech and Academic Freedom NDU
Faculty%20Handbook.pdf
Granted, those are excerpts chosen by the lawyers for this potential plaintiff.
And understand that I'm not defending this guy's views, only his right to hold them no matter how much I disagree with him.
This intrigued me enough to look at it. But when I used the link, gave me the website, but a page not found within the website. I didn't think he was going to have a case at all being that, well, he's goverment issue right now. This should be a great conversation topic this weekend with all the military family members I will be seeing this weekend.
But I still think this DB doesn't represent every service man in our grand military.
I don't think anyone is disputing you on that.0 -
The link works for me. You might try googling "Excerpts on Free Speech and Academic Freedom NDU Faculty Handbook" if you can't get it to work for you.
Or try this: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CCsQFjAC&url=http://www.thomasmore.org/sites/default/files/files/Excerpts%20on%20Free%20Speech%20and%20Academic%20Freedom%20NDU%20Faculty%20Handbook.pdf&ei=OrNcUMGnIcTQiwKD1YH4BA&usg=AFQjCNGC2UJmEmkpHdeijTdGzlYLgFZ2mg0 -
Or the entire NDU policy on academic freedom is here:
http://www.ndu.edu/aa/policies/Academic Freedom NDU policy--Nov 08.pdf
(As opposed to the Thomas More Center's excerpts.)0 -
As I said, his position at the National Defense University would seem to modify the normal presumption that national security and unit cohesion trump the free speech rights of members of the military.The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, under provisions and requirements of Title 10, United States Code, has directed the President of the National Defense University to establish a climate of academic freedom within the university to foster thorough and lively academic debate, and to examine national security issues.[7] To continue to craft the best possible national security policy for the United States and offer the best possible advice to U.S. leaders, students, the faculty of the university must be free to examine policy from all viewpoints. It is therefore a combination of academic freedom enhanced by non-attribution that facilitates the achievement of the desired U.S. national capabilities.[8]
7 MSA Self Study, Academic Freedom, Legal Imperative, October 1996.
8 NDU Non-Attribution/Academic Freedom; Date of Last Updated version: 15 April 2003, p. 1, states: “Academic Freedom at National Defense University is defined as freedom to pursue and express ideas, opinions, and issues germane to the University’s stated mission, free of limitations, restraints, or coercion by the University or external environment. Academic freedom is the hallmark of an academic institution. We expect all members of the University community to understand the importance of and to practice responsible academic freedom. In order to continually improve U.S. National Security policy and best advise superiors, students, professors, and researchers must be free to examine policy from all viewpoints . It is a combination of academic freedom and non-attribution that enables the development of such capabilities.
Yet, there is an intriguing footnote that may sink this guy's case . . . if he ever actually brings a case. (I think more likely the whole thing is a publicity stunt for right-wing fundraising purposes.)College and university teachers are citizens, members of a learned profession, and officers of an educational institution. When they speak or write as citizens, they should be free from institutional censorship or discipline, but their special position in the community imposes special obligations.[5] As scholars and educational officers, they should remember that the public may judge their profession and their institution by their utterances. Hence they should at all times be accurate, should exercise appropriate restraint, should show respect for the opinions of others, and should make every effort to indicate that they are not speaking for the institution.[6]
5 Constraints imposed on military officers and certain government employees due to their professional or duty status, are noted.
6 AAUP & AACU 1940 Statement of Principles on Academic Freedom, p. 3, 4.
Not surprisingly, the Thomas More Center didn't include footnote 5 in its excerpts!0 -
My guess is that most people probably feel like you can be a racist twerp all you want, just don't let it impact your job. A pointless lawsuit is probably impacting people's jobs and that's a problem.
These things for me point to more than just a 'one off'. The guy was actually TEACHING A COURSE to high level officersI am more concerned that he reached the rank of Lt. Col.
Would you say that a "teacher" influences the decisions and thoughts made by their students? This is the point of teaching isn't it?at the Joint Forces Staff College in Norfolk, Virginia, which is under the auspices of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The course instructed senior officers at the lieutenant colonel, commander, colonel and Navy captain level that “there is no such thing as ‘moderate Islam,’” and that wartime protections against civilians of Islamic countries were “no longer relevant.
So yes, I'll agree he is definitely an 'extremist' but how many people did he teach this philosophy to that put it into practice? Does this not give one something to consider? This guy wasn't just your average grunt.. he was a member of high rank and such his words were likely given more weight by the regular enlisted men and would be more likely to also be put into action especially given the conflicts in mainly Islamic countries these days. So how did he manage to get promoted so many times with this outlook?0 -
I don't think anyone is disputing you on that.
Not a response to TreeTop on that. More like to the OP.
Treetop...is this what his defense is using for him? Very good read. I'm just a bit lost on the NDU. Is that who he works for?0 -
If he brings suit, it will be for violation of his constitution free speech rights and his academic freedom as an instructor at Joint Forces Staff College, which is part of the National Defense University (NDU).[Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin] Dempsey shut down an elective course Dooley taught at the Joint Forces Staff College in Norfolk, Virginia, which is under the auspices of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The course instructed senior officers at the lieutenant colonel, commander, colonel and Navy captain level that “there is no such thing as ‘moderate Islam,’” and that wartime protections against civilians of Islamic countries were “no longer relevant.” . . .
Dooley was removed from the college and received an administrative reprimand for teaching material that Dempsey called “totally objectionable, against our values and it wasn’t academically sound.”
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/09/lawsuit-total-war-islam/
Dooley's lawyers are from the Thomas More Center, a right wing legal foundation. From their description of the case, they plan to depend heavily on the NDU's academic freedom policy, which is why I've been quoting it.
http://www.thomasmore.org/news/muslim-influence-pentagon-prevails-material-radical-islam-purged-outstanding-army-officer-disci0 -
Wow...so as an instructor, they're depending on the bylaws of the NDU. I will be following this case. Sounds like a huge can of worms might be opened if the case is allowed to go to court.0
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My guess is that most people probably feel like you can be a racist twerp all you want, just don't let it impact your job. A pointless lawsuit is probably impacting people's jobs and that's a problem.
These things for me point to more than just a 'one off'. The guy was actually TEACHING A COURSE to high level officersI am more concerned that he reached the rank of Lt. Col.
Would you say that a "teacher" influences the decisions and thoughts made by their students? This is the point of teaching isn't it?at the Joint Forces Staff College in Norfolk, Virginia, which is under the auspices of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The course instructed senior officers at the lieutenant colonel, commander, colonel and Navy captain level that “there is no such thing as ‘moderate Islam,’” and that wartime protections against civilians of Islamic countries were “no longer relevant.
So yes, I'll agree he is definitely an 'extremist' but how many people did he teach this philosophy to that put it into practice? Does this not give one something to consider? This guy wasn't just your average grunt.. he was a member of high rank and such his words were likely given more weight by the regular enlisted men and would be more likely to also be put into action especially given the conflicts in mainly Islamic countries these days. So how did he manage to get promoted so many times with this outlook?
My father was stationed at the Staff College when I was a child. Very small community but I will state that you do not get there by being a sheep. At that level in the military, they want free and creative thinkers, not grunts. So while the instructor can teach these things, it does not mean that the officers in the class will take them as gospel. It was most likely his students that brought his teachings to his CO's attention.0 -
Part of the Thomas More Center's putative case is that Dooley was not advocating these ideas about Islam, just opening them up for debate within an academic culture of (as you put it) free and creative thinkers.Despite a preliminary inquiry that confirmed the purely notional, conceptual, and theoretical nature of LTC Dooley’s class, General Dempsey’s implication, before the inquiry was complete, that Dooley formally advocated actions outside of U.S. policy was both premature and inaccurate.
By the academic methods trained and practiced at the Joint Forces Staff College, instructors protected by the official and non-attributional environment of the classroom were routinely expected to challenge their students to consider all options both within and outside of U.S. policies and to “think the unthinkable.”
http://www.thomasmore.org/news/muslim-influence-pentagon-prevails-material-radical-islam-purged-outstanding-army-officer-disci
Of course, the breathless anti-Islamic tone of the rest of piece kind of contradicts that assertion.0 -
My father was stationed at the Staff College when I was a child. Very small community but I will state that you do not get there by being a sheep. At that level in the military, they want free and creative thinkers, not grunts. So while the instructor can teach these things, it does not mean that the officers in the class will take them as gospel. It was most likely his students that brought his teachings to his CO's attention.
Thanks for the perspective from the other side. So basically the whole course was designed to be a 'thought experiment' if you will, and the rules governing this institution encourage this form of teaching.Part of the Thomas More Center's putative case is that Dooley was not advocating these ideas about Islam, just opening them up for debate within an academic culture of (as you put it) free and creative thinkers.
Of course, the breathless anti-Islamic tone of the rest of piece kind of contradicts that assertion.
Quite.
Why is it that anytime a high ranking officer/official does something "questionable" the first thing the press and media do is rush to list all the accomplishments? - like they are some 'barrier' to doing anything evil. Being a 'highly decorated military officer' does not mean you aren't capable of doing something wrong. They did the same thing with our x-Colonel Williams up here and also General Hasan (who killed 13 people at FT.Hood in 2009).0 -
[/quote]My father was stationed at the Staff College when I was a child. Very small community but I will state that you do not get there by being a sheep. At that level in the military, they want free and creative thinkers, not grunts. So while the instructor can teach these things, it does not mean that the officers in the class will take them as gospel. It was most likely his students that brought his teachings to his CO's attention.
Thanks for the perspective from the other side. So basically the whole course was designed to be a 'thought experiment' if you will, and the rules governing this institution encourage this form of teaching.
No, the course of education is informative but the students are not required to take what the instructor teaches as the only viewpoint. Courses are taught with a dialogue.
[/quote]Part of the Thomas More Center's putative case is that Dooley was not advocating these ideas about Islam, just opening them up for debate within an academic culture of (as you put it) free and creative thinkers.
Of course, the breathless anti-Islamic tone of the rest of piece kind of contradicts that assertion.
Quite.
Why is it that anytime a high ranking officer/official does something "questionable" the first thing the press and media do is rush to list all the accomplishments? - like they are some 'barrier' to doing anything evil. Being a 'highly decorated military officer' does not mean you aren't capable of doing something wrong. They did the same thing with our x-Colonel Williams up here and also General Hasan (who killed 13 people at FT.Hood in 2009).
I believe the reason is to show the gravity of the situation rather than to protect the officer. It is more shocking when a successful person falls rather than someone who can just me dismissed as a washout.
Also, it was Major Hassan. He was not a general by any stretch.0
