Affordable Health Care act - have you read it?
Replies
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Um, no... but I bet that's what you are wishing I had said or thought. Insurance, whether public or private do not make costs of health care go down... in fact they are skyrocketing as a result. There is little to no competition, no incentive to make it cheaper and more accessible... There is little room to negotiate.
I'm actually glad you didn't mean that. This is the second time you've made an assumption about me. Please stop doing that.
Edited to add: I agree with you that people need to be educated about what's available to them and that laws need to be changed in a way that can improve the system and allow for negotiation.
Isn't increased competition the point of these insurance exchanges outlined in Obamacare?
Yup0 -
This is just a poll question for everyone here.
Do you think healthcare should be considered a human right?
I do.0 -
I do as well.0
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Um, no... but I bet that's what you are wishing I had said or thought. Insurance, whether public or private do not make costs of health care go down... in fact they are skyrocketing as a result. There is little to no competition, no incentive to make it cheaper and more accessible... There is little room to negotiate.
I'm actually glad you didn't mean that. This is the second time you've made an assumption about me. Please stop doing that.
Edited to add: I agree with you that people need to be educated about what's available to them and that laws need to be changed in a way that can improve the system and allow for negotiation.
I think we keep making assumptions about each other... I apologize for my snarkiness.0 -
This is just a poll question for everyone here.
Do you think healthcare should be considered a human right?
I do.
Health Care, yes.0 -
Um, no... but I bet that's what you are wishing I had said or thought. Insurance, whether public or private do not make costs of health care go down... in fact they are skyrocketing as a result. There is little to no competition, no incentive to make it cheaper and more accessible... There is little room to negotiate.
I'm actually glad you didn't mean that. This is the second time you've made an assumption about me. Please stop doing that.
Edited to add: I agree with you that people need to be educated about what's available to them and that laws need to be changed in a way that can improve the system and allow for negotiation.
Isn't increased competition the point of these insurance exchanges outlined in Obamacare?
It may be the point, but it doesn't look like it will end up that way... but only time will tell.0 -
Um, no... but I bet that's what you are wishing I had said or thought. Insurance, whether public or private do not make costs of health care go down... in fact they are skyrocketing as a result. There is little to no competition, no incentive to make it cheaper and more accessible... There is little room to negotiate.
I'm actually glad you didn't mean that. This is the second time you've made an assumption about me. Please stop doing that.
Edited to add: I agree with you that people need to be educated about what's available to them and that laws need to be changed in a way that can improve the system and allow for negotiation.
Isn't increased competition the point of these insurance exchanges outlined in Obamacare?
It may be the point, but it doesn't look like it will end up that way... but only time will tell.
Who is saying that it doesn't look like it's working? The exchanges won't even be fully operational until next January.0 -
Bump - trying to get all of "my topics" to 5000
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This is just a poll question for everyone here.
Do you think healthcare should be considered a human right?
I do.
Health Care, yes.
If health care was free, then yes. Its not though so I would say no.0 -
This is just a poll question for everyone here.
Do you think healthcare should be considered a human right?
I do.
Health Care, yes.
If health care was free, then yes. Its not though so I would say no.
Police cost money, should we just do away with them too?0 -
This is just a poll question for everyone here.
Do you think healthcare should be considered a human right?
I do.
Health Care, yes.
If health care was free, then yes. Its not though so I would say no.
Police cost money, should we just do away with them too?
I didnt say do away with health care. Police are not a human right!0 -
This is just a poll question for everyone here.
Do you think healthcare should be considered a human right?
I do.
Health Care, yes.
If health care was free, then yes. Its not though so I would say no.
Does this also then extend to food, water, and shelter?0 -
Courts cost money. Fair trials are a basic human right, protected in the United States by the fifth and sixth amendments.Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, . . . nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury . . . and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Freedom isn't free.0 -
Looks like this thread has degenerated into a basic human rights game. I like games!
Is cell phone ownership a basic human right???
As of June 2012 there were 321 million wireless subscriber connections in the US. As of July 2012 there were 314 million people in the US. There are more wireless subscriber connections then there are people in the US. Clearly there are people with multiple lines but I am willing to bet there are many, many people that carry a wireless subscription that do not currently pay for health insurance. Life is about choices. I shouldn't have to pay when you make the wrong choice.
For what it's worth, I could cancel my cell phone plan and pay for a catastrophic health insurance plan which would protect me from going broke in the case of a medical emergency. Normal preventive care would be out of pocket.
We can play this game with cable, internet access, automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, etc...0 -
Looks like this thread has degenerated into a basic human rights game. I like games!
Is cell phone ownership a basic human right???
As of June 2012 there were 321 million wireless subscriber connections in the US. As of July 2012 there were 314 million people in the US. There are more wireless subscriber connections then there are people in the US. Clearly there are people with multiple lines but I am willing to bet there are many, many people that carry a wireless subscription that do not currently pay for health insurance. Life is about choices. I shouldn't have to pay when you make the wrong choice.
For what it's worth, I could cancel my cell phone plan and pay for a catastrophic health insurance plan which would protect me from going broke in the case of a medical emergency. Normal preventive care would be out of pocket.
We can play this game with cable, internet access, automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, etc...
I wouldn't say it degenerated to human rights. I think that it's important to the discussion as a whole to determine where the perspectives of the people involved originate.
As for cable, internet, cigarettes, etc., they're not really on the same level. Choosing to forgo any of those things generally doesn't result in life-or-death circumstances or having to choose between death or bankruptcy.0 -
Looks like this thread has degenerated into a basic human rights game. I like games!
Is cell phone ownership a basic human right???
As of June 2012 there were 321 million wireless subscriber connections in the US. As of July 2012 there were 314 million people in the US. There are more wireless subscriber connections then there are people in the US. Clearly there are people with multiple lines but I am willing to bet there are many, many people that carry a wireless subscription that do not currently pay for health insurance. Life is about choices. I shouldn't have to pay when you make the wrong choice.
For what it's worth, I could cancel my cell phone plan and pay for a catastrophic health insurance plan which would protect me from going broke in the case of a medical emergency. Normal preventive care would be out of pocket.
We can play this game with cable, internet access, automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, etc...
So you see health care as discretionary spending?0 -
Courts cost money. Fair trials are a basic human right, protected in the United States by the fifth and sixth amendments.Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, . . . nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury . . . and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Freedom isn't free.
You are confusing American Citizen rights with human rights!0 -
Courts cost money. Fair trials are a basic human right, protected in the United States by the fifth and sixth amendments.Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, . . . nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury . . . and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Freedom isn't free.
You are confusing American Citizen rights with human rights!
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."0 -
Courts cost money. Fair trials are a basic human right, protected in the United States by the fifth and sixth amendments.Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, . . . nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury . . . and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Freedom isn't free.
You are confusing American Citizen rights with human rights!
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
That is an American document that pertains to American Citizens! Thank you for validating my statement. I also dont see the part abount universal healthcare! I read that as freedom from our government to persue my life, liberty,, and happiness! It sounds like you read it as our government owes us life, liberty, and happiness?0 -
Courts cost money. Fair trials are a basic human right, protected in the United States by the fifth and sixth amendments.Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, . . . nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury . . . and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Freedom isn't free.
You are confusing American Citizen rights with human rights!
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
That is an American document that pertains to American Citizens! Thank you for validating my statement. I also dont see the part abount universal healthcare! I read that as freedom from our government to persue my life, liberty,, and happiness! It sounds like you read it as our government owes us life, liberty, and happiness?
You obviously need lessons.
"All men" means everyone. Not all American men.
certain inalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Let's break these bold parts down, shall we? "That among these" means that what is listed after will only be some of the rights. The "and" means that it is a separate right from the two previous mentioned. So the rights, which include, the right to Life, the right to Liberty AND the right to pursue happiness.
So, basically, life - meaning that you should be free to survive. Liberty - meaning you should be free to determine your life, and the pursuit of happiness - meaning that you should be allow to pursue your own means.
Also, since the thread I replied to was speaking about freedom - it was obviously the Liberty that I was pointing to.
Also, if you want a US document that can encapsulate an argument for Universal Healthcare more clearly, I can point you to the Preamble that you should have learned in school. There is a part of "promote the general welfare" that fits quite nicely.0 -
Looks like this thread has degenerated into a basic human rights game. I like games!
Is cell phone ownership a basic human right???
As of June 2012 there were 321 million wireless subscriber connections in the US. As of July 2012 there were 314 million people in the US. There are more wireless subscriber connections then there are people in the US. Clearly there are people with multiple lines but I am willing to bet there are many, many people that carry a wireless subscription that do not currently pay for health insurance. Life is about choices. I shouldn't have to pay when you make the wrong choice.
For what it's worth, I could cancel my cell phone plan and pay for a catastrophic health insurance plan which would protect me from going broke in the case of a medical emergency. Normal preventive care would be out of pocket.
We can play this game with cable, internet access, automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, etc...
So you see health care as discretionary spending?
I have health insurance so I clearly do not see it as discretionary spending. Lots of people do not have health insurance but DO spend their money on the items I listed. The question is... Should I have to pay for someone else's healthcare when they purchase the items I listed before healthcare?0 -
Looks like this thread has degenerated into a basic human rights game. I like games!
Is cell phone ownership a basic human right???
As of June 2012 there were 321 million wireless subscriber connections in the US. As of July 2012 there were 314 million people in the US. There are more wireless subscriber connections then there are people in the US. Clearly there are people with multiple lines but I am willing to bet there are many, many people that carry a wireless subscription that do not currently pay for health insurance. Life is about choices. I shouldn't have to pay when you make the wrong choice.
For what it's worth, I could cancel my cell phone plan and pay for a catastrophic health insurance plan which would protect me from going broke in the case of a medical emergency. Normal preventive care would be out of pocket.
We can play this game with cable, internet access, automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, etc...
I wouldn't say it degenerated to human rights. I think that it's important to the discussion as a whole to determine where the perspectives of the people involved originate.
As for cable, internet, cigarettes, etc., they're not really on the same level. Choosing to forgo any of those things generally doesn't result in life-or-death circumstances or having to choose between death or bankruptcy.
You are clearly not following my point.
The problem is that people CHOSE to purchase those items before health care. That is not MY problem.0 -
This is just a poll question for everyone here.
Do you think healthcare should be considered a human right?
I do.
Health Care, yes.
If health care was free, then yes. Its not though so I would say no.
Damned if I had finished my thought... damned if I didn't... In my opinion, health care allows all people the basic rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness... however, my finished thought said Health insurance, no... but I deleted it because I didn't want to get myself so off the question.0 -
Courts cost money. Fair trials are a basic human right, protected in the United States by the fifth and sixth amendments.Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, . . . nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury . . . and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Freedom isn't free.
You are confusing American Citizen rights with human rights!
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
That is an American document that pertains to American Citizens! Thank you for validating my statement. I also dont see the part abount universal healthcare! I read that as freedom from our government to persue my life, liberty,, and happiness! It sounds like you read it as our government owes us life, liberty, and happiness?
You obviously need lessons.
"All men" means everyone. Not all American men.
certain inalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Let's break these bold parts down, shall we? "That among these" means that what is listed after will only be some of the rights. The "and" means that it is a separate right from the two previous mentioned. So the rights, which include, the right to Life, the right to Liberty AND the right to pursue happiness.
So, basically, life - meaning that you should be free to survive. Liberty - meaning you should be free to determine your life, and the pursuit of happiness - meaning that you should be allow to pursue your own means.
Also, since the thread I replied to was speaking about freedom - it was obviously the Liberty that I was pointing to.
Also, if you want a US document that can encapsulate an argument for Universal Healthcare more clearly, I can point you to the Preamble that you should have learned in school. There is a part of "promote the general welfare" that fits quite nicely.
It is Promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare...0 -
Looks like this thread has degenerated into a basic human rights game. I like games!
Is cell phone ownership a basic human right???
As of June 2012 there were 321 million wireless subscriber connections in the US. As of July 2012 there were 314 million people in the US. There are more wireless subscriber connections then there are people in the US. Clearly there are people with multiple lines but I am willing to bet there are many, many people that carry a wireless subscription that do not currently pay for health insurance. Life is about choices. I shouldn't have to pay when you make the wrong choice.
For what it's worth, I could cancel my cell phone plan and pay for a catastrophic health insurance plan which would protect me from going broke in the case of a medical emergency. Normal preventive care would be out of pocket.
We can play this game with cable, internet access, automobiles, cigarettes, alcohol, etc...
I wouldn't say it degenerated to human rights. I think that it's important to the discussion as a whole to determine where the perspectives of the people involved originate.
As for cable, internet, cigarettes, etc., they're not really on the same level. Choosing to forgo any of those things generally doesn't result in life-or-death circumstances or having to choose between death or bankruptcy.
You are clearly not following my point.
The problem is that people CHOSE to purchase those items before health care. That is not MY problem.
Honestly, this is where I am. There are families out there that are living in technical poverty... yet, they can still get and pay for healthcare.... AND not be on Government Assistance... And feed their family, provide a roof of their head, clothes on their back, etc. But, yet, we cater to those who make bad choices as if somehow their circumstances aren't at least partially their fault.0 -
You are clearly not following my point.
The problem is that people CHOSE to purchase those items before health care. That is not MY problem.
Ok, point taken. But what should they then do if they do get sick? Is it conscionable, as the richest country on the planet, to let our citizens die or go bankrupt? I'm asking this because by saying it's not your problem, it sounds like you think you should be required to pay $0 for anyone else, including emergency care, which you already do pay for. That's what would happen if everyone had that opinion.
Also, what about the people who don't have a healthcare or a car, phone, internet, or anything else like that? That's the reality for a lot of working poor Americans.0 -
Courts cost money. Fair trials are a basic human right, protected in the United States by the fifth and sixth amendments.Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, . . . nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury . . . and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Freedom isn't free.
You are confusing American Citizen rights with human rights!
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
That is an American document that pertains to American Citizens! Thank you for validating my statement. I also dont see the part abount universal healthcare! I read that as freedom from our government to persue my life, liberty,, and happiness! It sounds like you read it as our government owes us life, liberty, and happiness?
You obviously need lessons.
"All men" means everyone. Not all American men.
certain inalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
Let's break these bold parts down, shall we? "That among these" means that what is listed after will only be some of the rights. The "and" means that it is a separate right from the two previous mentioned. So the rights, which include, the right to Life, the right to Liberty AND the right to pursue happiness.
So, basically, life - meaning that you should be free to survive. Liberty - meaning you should be free to determine your life, and the pursuit of happiness - meaning that you should be allow to pursue your own means.
Also, since the thread I replied to was speaking about freedom - it was obviously the Liberty that I was pointing to.
Also, if you want a US document that can encapsulate an argument for Universal Healthcare more clearly, I can point you to the Preamble that you should have learned in school. There is a part of "promote the general welfare" that fits quite nicely.
Nothing that you have typed so far shows me how health care is a human right.
So, you honestly believe that the US Declaration of independence and US Constitution pertain to every human in the world? I am sure the N Koreans, Chinese, Cubans and pratically everyone else in the world would love to hear that!
That was written into the decleration of independence to make sure that the government could not encroach on your right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness! It does not say that everyone in the world is entitled to it.
All men might be created equal, but then you live your life! The decisions we all make on day to day basis ensure that we do not remain equal. It is not my fault that some do not have jobs or healthcare. I do not want more taxes TAKEN out of my check for everyones healthcare or social security for that matter. I do like a few things in this bill but also believe that it was way too big of a bill that was passed without even reading or studying it!0 -
edit: double post0
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All men might be created equal, but then you live your life! The decisions we all make on day to day basis ensure that we do not remain equal. It is not my fault that some do not have jobs or healthcare. I do not want more taxes TAKEN out of my check for everyones healthcare or social security for that matter. I do like a few things in this bill but also believe that it was way too big of a bill that was passed without even reading or studying it!
Unless you make over $400,000 (you might, I don't know), federal taxes haven't gone up on anyone since Clinton was in office (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Excluding the two-year payroll tax cut that just expired, which Obama gave us. The healthcare law is intended to save money.
Also, I don't think it's unreasonable to think we should all pitch in to make sure our fellow citizens don't starve/freeze to death/die w/o healthcare. And I think your stance contradicts your previous claim of compassion for the poor.0 -
All men might be created equal, but then you live your life! The decisions we all make on day to day basis ensure that we do not remain equal. It is not my fault that some do not have jobs or healthcare. I do not want more taxes TAKEN out of my check for everyones healthcare or social security for that matter. I do like a few things in this bill but also believe that it was way too big of a bill that was passed without even reading or studying it!
Unless you make over $400,000 (you might, I don't know), federal taxes haven't gone up on anyone since Clinton was in office (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Excluding the two-year payroll tax cut that just expired, which Obama gave us. The healthcare law is intended to save money.
Also, I don't think it's unreasonable to think we should all pitch in to make sure our fellow citizens don't starve/freeze to death/die w/o healthcare. And I think your stance contradicts your previous claim of compassion for the poor.
I donate to charity. Thats a choice! It should not be taken from me. . This health care bill will raise everyones taxes. It hasnt been fully implemented yet. I dont care if anyone thinks I have compassion for poor people! I started out with nothing. I choose to go to school and pay attention. I choose to donate 8 years of my life to the military and spend 3 of those years in Iraq and afghanastan so that I can get a degree paid for. Why should I continue to have to pay for people that made bad choices or just didnt want to get off there lazy butts and do something! Yeah I know, its not there fault they lost there job or got sick. Its not my fault either!0
