ARTICLE? Carbohydrates and Endurance

SKArunner

Someone sent me this article and I had to re-read a couple of times, "Carbohydrates and Endurance: Clearing up the Confusion". First, I understand that they are trying to sell a product, and Keto athletes are not their market. I am just trying to better understand my body . . . What do you think?

http://firstendurance.com/2011/03/01/carbohydrates-and-endurance-clearing-up-the-confusion/

I am OK with these misconceptions:

#1 Misconception: Sugars are high glycemic* so they give a sugar high then crash.
#2 Misconception: Complex Carbohydrates like Maltodextrin are slow burning
#3 Misconception: Sugar is bad for my health.
*Trying to eliminate sugar is like trying to run your car without gas. Not for Keto athletes!


I have a hard time with, or do not understand #4.

#4 Misconception: Since I am doing a long race, I should consume slow burning carbohydrates

Bullet 1) makes sense and supports theories that I have about carbing during a run . . .
http://www.skarunner.com/2012/12/ketogenic-diet-running-some-carbs.html

1) When you are exercising your insulin is blunted. Meaning, that when you are exercising and you consume a high glycemic food, you do not get a strong insulin response and hence you do not get a sugar crash. Your body is very smart and it clearly understands that when you are exercising you want to use the food or drink you consume to fuel your muscles. If insulin kicked in, the food or fuel you consumed would not get to the working muscle.


Bullet 3) . . . As a Keto athlete I need a slow burning fuel . . .

??? Looking for that low glycemic, slow sustained energy will actually cause you to bonk prematurely. ?????

"Understand that we all have about two hours of stored glycogen." - Maybe a bit less for Keto Athletes, but I agree.

"The act of consuming slow nutrients can also cause gastric distress. Consider that slow absorbing nutrients spend a lot of time in the digestive system. " Makes sense, but I have not experienced this yet. . . I have had a number major bonks prior to becoming Keto adapted.

"The best way to do this, outside of appropriate pace and training, is to consume primarily fast absorbing carbohydrates to fuel your exercise. This will allow you to immediately use what you consume for the working muscle, so you can spare your stored muscle glycogen." Ok, if I agree with "1) When you are exercising your insulin is blunted." I should agree with this, but when Keto adapted I shouldn't bonk in the first place.

3) Looking for that low glycemic, slow sustained energy will actually cause you to bonk prematurely. Some even consider using some fat because they are going long. Understand that we all have about two hours of stored glycogen. Once this runs out, we bonk. If you consume a slow absorbing/low glycemic food while exercising you are forcing your body to rely on its stored glycogen. The entire goal of fueling for long endurance racing is to spare your muscle glycogen. In other words do what you can to hold on to that stored glycogen. The best way to do this, outside of appropriate pace and training, is to consume primarily fast absorbing carbohydrates to fuel your exercise. This will allow you to immediately use what you consume for the working muscle, so you can spare your stored muscle glycogen.

scott091501

I think this article wasn't written with a keto athlete as the target audience so I'm not sure why you're trying to apply it to yourself.

The article is pretty spot on. I don't like the use of the glycemic index because all those substances are tested in a fasted state and in reality no one operates in a fasted state for any prolonged period of time during the day.

SKArunner

I know that it was not written for Keto adapted athletes. It is just that literature out there is very limited, a handful of authors. I am just trying to really understand how the body works during endurance events. I am particularly curious about fast vs slow burning carbs and if insulin is blunted during exercise does it really matter what I eat or drink. My limited understanding says I should avoid the spike, particularly while in ketosis.

I just tried UCAN, which is super starch based, but at this point it is still hard to tell; there are just too many variables involved.

scott091501

Well the issue with slow burning is that in general it is so because it is slow digesting as well. Meaning that blood flow has to be diverted from working muscles for a longer period of time to aid in digestion. This blood (oxygen) would be better utilized by the working muscles. This is why you see quick digesting/acting carbs recommended at shorter intervals. Now staying in Keto? IDK. I see no reason to stay in Keto for a race. It doesn't take that long to get back into Keto so I see no issue in utilizing carbs if I race faster.

zoom2

I think certain kinds of racing lend themselves to keto very well, at least from what I read (haven't been able to put anything into practice with the bum arm)...marathons+, endurance cycling, etc. I expect that I will end up doing more of a CKD sort of diet depending upon race goals. Cyclocross will almost certainly not work on really low carbs, because it's so anaerobic.

SKArunner

Here is the thing; I switched to Keto so that I wouldn’t be so dependent on carbs during ultra runs. A friend of mine, a Keto runner, ran his first 50 miler (third ultra and never run a marathon) on 3 gels and he broke the course record. That was my tipping point for switching to Keto. He is a little faster than I am, but not by much. I on the other hand, I ate 26 gels (the recommended eat every 30 minutes) and still bonked hard- twice. I have tried eating less and still bonked – even harder. I also tried to eat more and had the worse bonk ever. Now I know everyone is different and I have tons to work out, but I seem to be faster than ever in ketosis and I am training 1/3 of what I was doing last year. With that said, losing 15 pounds probably made the most difference.
I have not run an official ultra in Ketosis yet, that will be my next test, but I have run a hilly trail marathon training run in under 4 hours. I had fasted prior to the run, maybe 18 hours, and only drank water and salt the entire run. It was an experiment and I had more energy than ever before; I was laughing the whole run because I just couldn’t believe it.

The other test was a 10k and I took 4.5 minutes off last years’ time. I also ran that fasted. My goal was sub 40 and I ran 40:22. Could I have run the 10k even faster on carbs? I don’t know yet, but I was 19th out of 580 runners. I was impressed. These are not elite times, but I haven’t really done any speed work or tempo work since high school (I am 42 years old and only been really training for 2+ years) – maybe 5 speed workouts spread out over the last 2 years.

I am going to test it out on a 5k in 2 weeks; I set my goal to a sub 18??? Being in ketosis, doesn’t improve my short race performance, aside from being lighter, but I do think makes a huge difference for longer runs. We will see. Man, it is so hard to say, there are just so many variables involved. I feel great and am running great, all on less than 50g of carbs a day. I am only 46 days in ketosis; let’s see how long it lasts. I am thinking that I am a lifer though . . .
Thanks for helping out . . .

scott091501

Ever consider that you may have bonked because you were undertrained or paced poorly or your electrolytes were out of whack? Might not be the carbs. Just an option.

SKArunner

Yes, without a doubt! All of the above! I have questioned everything. I am inexperienced. I am excited. Leading up to my first 100 miler, I was running 100 miles/week (6 months ago) and spent way too much time running hills. I questioned all of that. Some of the guys I trained with ran 120- 150 week and others were maxing at 60 (better quality). They were both front of the pack runners??? Was I running too much or not enough??? I seem to always be tweaking.

Nutrition??? I always thought I was the normal one. There are the fruitarians, the vegans, the paleos, the carbers and the “balanced”, everyone seems to find something that works. And yea, they all seem to be eating carbs . . .

So, my understanding of running while in ketosis is that you will not bonk because there is an endless supply of fat to fuel with, and that is what I am finding. I don’t understand it, but I am having a blast experimenting and I feel more energized running carbless then every before and it doesn’t make sense.

Ninety-nine percent of the people think I am nuts for even being on a ketogenic diet in the first place. I was lactose intolerant for 20+ years and now suddenly I am not??? In terms of pacing, it was all over the place and now my pace is more consistent than ever before. Is that that due to spikes from the gels? I don’t know.

All I know is, I am healthier, faster, and enjoy running more than ever, but I don’t fully understand why or how it is really working.

zoom2

Ever consider that you may have bonked because you were undertrained or paced poorly or your electrolytes were out of whack? Might not be the carbs. Just an option.

And 26 gels?! Ewwww.... :laugh: :sick:

zoom2

I was lactose intolerant for 20+ years and now suddenly I am not???

I have been lactose intolerant for probably close to a decade. I can eat cheese and yogurt, since they are cultured and the bacteria eats the lactose. I'm OK for a reasonable serving of ice cream, too. But a glass of milk...nope.

SKArunner

Fresh whipping cream and heavy cream (like Indian food) destroyed me. Now I make a 1/2 cup of heavy cream with 1/2 cup of raspberries (like a yogurt) and then top it off with whip cream . . .