Students wearing pedometers is an invasion of privacy?
doorki
Posts: 2,576 Member
I just heard about this controversy today and I wanted to see what others think. Basically, schools in Western New York State are taking part in a federal program to educate students about activity. As a result, children are required to wear a pedometer all day for a period of time and then report their numbers in a journal and to the school. This data is then sent to the federal government as data for part of a study on student activity. Some parents are up in arms because they claim it is an invasion of privacy of their children even though it is part of a school curriculum. So what say you? I feel that this is not an invasion of privacy but rather a lesson that children need to learn as well as a good way for federal studies to gain data.
http://www.whec.com/news/stories/s2892796.shtml
http://www.whec.com/news/stories/s2892796.shtml
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I have no problem with students learning the importance of physical activity and being made to keep a log as part of their education. After all, physical education is a school subject, no? The pedometers, though, bother me. It crosses the line from school project to being tracked. And I'm especially bothered by this detail:
"Some are making the pedometers part of the student's grade and refusing to wear one means a zero."0 -
As long as it isn't tracking where the students are going and are just tracking number of steps taken, I don't see how it can be concluded as an invasion of privacy... it's one thing if it were a GPS tracker + Pedometer...
However (after reading the actual article and rereading the OP)... I'm curious. Why does the information need to be sent to the federal government? Why can't the school district just compile statistics for the federal government?0 -
The government doesn't need to be tracking what my child does. If they want children more active, make PE a mandatory class in school like it used to be. We all know our children are not as active as they should be. It is the parents job to take care of this and it is not the governments business to monitor my child.
Lets say next year your child is sick and they say well - last year your child hardly did any physical activity according to this report, so your insurance company isn't going to cover the cost. could happen.....
Even though it isn't supposed to be reported except for "information" gathering I would not allow it.0 -
The government doesn't need to be tracking what my child does. If they want children more active, make PE a mandatory class in school like it used to be. We all know our children are not as active as they should be. It is the parents job to take care of this and it is not the governments business to monitor my child.
Lets say next year your child is sick and they say well - last year your child hardly did any physical activity according to this report, so your insurance company isn't going to cover the cost. could happen.....
Even though it isn't supposed to be reported except for "information" gathering I would not allow it.
So....it is an assignment to teach your child about how many calories you burn. There is no GPS, there is no "insurance angle" to this. Do you also have a problem with kids having to care for a bag of flour or sugar in order to teach them the difficulty of having baby? This paranoia is pretty terrifying.
I believe that the government would want the data sent to them so they do not have to coordinate the format of compiled data provided from the various states.0 -
So what say you? I feel that this is not an invasion of privacy but rather a lesson that children need to learn as well as a good way for federal studies to gain data.
A lesson for children and an invasion of privacy are not mutually exclusive. Children can be provided lessons about activity and health without tracking their activity and providing it to the government. A use for information today can be different then what it could be used for tomorrow. That said, I would be fine with it if the information were delivered without identification attached.
Something else to ponder... Generally studies are not compulsory of their participants. I would question any data coming out of a study that required participation or else risk failure of a class. What is to stop a perfectly healthy and active child from leaving their pedometer in their back pack after school which would give the illusion that the child is sedentary at home?0 -
So what say you? I feel that this is not an invasion of privacy but rather a lesson that children need to learn as well as a good way for federal studies to gain data.
A lesson for children and an invasion of privacy are not mutually exclusive. Children can be provided lessons about activity and health without tracking their activity and providing it to the government. A use for information today can be different then what it could be used for tomorrow. That said, I would be fine with it if the information were delivered without identification attached.
Something else to ponder... Generally studies are not compulsory of their participants. I would question any data coming out of a study that required participation or else risk failure of a class. What is to stop a perfectly healthy and active child from leaving their pedometer in their back pack after school which would give the illusion that the child is sedentary at home?
On the flip side, what's to keep a kid from "cheating" by shaking the pedometer to make it appear as if they were more "active"?0 -
Ever read Cass Sunstein's book Nudge? This is a prime example of that. This stuff is always done in schools (because children don't ask questions) and under the guise of public health so that anyone who opposes it can be shamed for it. Over time, these children will be desensitized to the government poking and prodding them and demanding access to their daily activity. They'll simply see it as a normal function of government. That's how freaking twisted this is.
I am not opposed to more physical education. I am strongly opposed to the forced tracking of students' movements. Parents should be allowed to withhold consent for their children to be used in a federal study. They are not lab rats, for crying out loud.
Reason #5467 my children will never, ever attend public school.0 -
Ever read Cass Sunstein's book Nudge? This is a prime example of that. This stuff is always done in schools (because children don't ask questions) and under the guise of public health so that anyone who opposes it can be shamed for it. Over time, these children will be desensitized to the government poking and prodding them and demanding access to their daily activity. They'll simply see it as a normal function of government. That's how freaking twisted this is.
I am not opposed to more physical education. I am strongly opposed to the forced tracking of students' movements. Parents should be allowed to withhold consent for their children to be used in a federal study. They are not lab rats, for crying out loud.
Reason #5467 my children will never, ever attend public school.
It is a pedometer not a gps. And students have been seen as "lab rats" by the school system for quite some time. Standardized tests, Presidential Physical Fitness Awards, absences, etc. It enables the Department of Ed and Health Department to see what is and is not working and what trends they see.
I do not see how giving kids a visual image of how their movements affect their daily lives and health is a bad thing. And you and I both know that kids act different when they get home from school than when they are in gym class. And we are all here because real life does not have mandatory gym class.
Also, I have said it before and I will say it again. This irrational fear of the government taking over is terrifying to me.0 -
So what say you? I feel that this is not an invasion of privacy but rather a lesson that children need to learn as well as a good way for federal studies to gain data.
A lesson for children and an invasion of privacy are not mutually exclusive. Children can be provided lessons about activity and health without tracking their activity and providing it to the government. A use for information today can be different then what it could be used for tomorrow. That said, I would be fine with it if the information were delivered without identification attached.
Something else to ponder... Generally studies are not compulsory of their participants. I would question any data coming out of a study that required participation or else risk failure of a class. What is to stop a perfectly healthy and active child from leaving their pedometer in their back pack after school which would give the illusion that the child is sedentary at home?
On the flip side, what's to keep a kid from "cheating" by shaking the pedometer to make it appear as if they were more "active"?
It's not one you wear on your wrist is it? That could lead to some astounding activity readings in teen aged boys.0 -
still stand by what I said - I do not want a device attached to my child for the government. We have plenty of data and we know how exercise, eating etc.. affect our lives. I am a firm believer in less government. We have plenty of data for analyzing - what we don't need is more data and another "study" to tell us what we already know.0
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I would ask my child if she wanted to wear this pedometer. If she did, no problem. If she didn't, I would tell her she didn't have to. If the school wanted to take it a step further and try to force her, I'd be the biggest pain in the a ss they had ever come across.0
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What privacy is being invaded, exactly?
Are these pedometers saying exactly where the child is going? Are these results causing a negative grade?
No and No?
I'm not sure I know what everyone is up in arms about...In order for us to gain statistical data (considering Childhood Obesity is significantly on the rise - which I have covered every in depth in the proposal paper), we need to gather it from somewhere. Additionally, many pedometers have a cover, so it used properly, its not even like the number is always flashing.
If this study can help us educate our children on possible ways to keep them from being overweight, keep them from getting sick to due it, keep them healthy, etc then I'm unsure as to why people would want to limit the chance of findings.0 -
Yes, the results are causing a negative grade. It said in the article that schools are making it part of the students' grades, and giving them a zero if they refuse to participate.
Last I checked, medical ethics says that parents need to consent to having their child experimented on.0 -
I really hope the schools that are participating have a healthy school lunch menu.0
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I don't like this. I don't like the fact that it is part of the child's grade. What do they do for someone who is in a wheelchair? Who is responsible for lost or broken pedometers?
If there is a government study, the parents absolutely should have the right to allow or refuse participation for their children. I do see this as different from a child having to do something like this for a class or having to carry around a bag of flour. That data isn't being collected and analyzed by the government or any other third party group.
If my kid went to a school where this was an optional program though, I would likely allow their participation.0 -
I agree with the parents. If it's being sent to the feds, it should be voluntary.0
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Bring out the tin foil hats!0
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Yes, the results are causing a negative grade. It said in the article that schools are making it part of the students' grades, and giving them a zero if they refuse to participate.
Last I checked, medical ethics says that parents need to consent to having their child experimented on.
1.) Was there a newsletter sent home to the parents this would be done? Was a "beginning of class" worksheet given to the students? - I ask, because I know when I was a kid, newsletters were sent home frequently and I also had to have papers signed by my mom CONSTANTLY everyday. Heck, nowadays, parents can log in to find important information, news about what is going on in class, news about grades, e-mails from parents.....The amount of information parents have access to is incredibly compared to when I was in High School. My little sister is 9 years younger than I (just graduated high school in 2013), and the amount of tools and information Mom has access to in INSANE. Also - Cannot be forgotten in a take home folder.
2.) As for the grades - So, if homework wasn't worth a grade, how many students do you think would do it? Seriously though. As a grown adult, "I" hate homework for my college classes, but it still has to get done. It's "walking" for heavens sake...I don't see everything crying about standardized testing. That information gets sent to our government ALL the time. Are we going to get all up in arms that our kids have to take standardized tests (which there is evidence to prove it is actually making American a "more stupid" place to be raised as classes are no longer geared towards learning, but rather towards giving children the information to pass tests).
Side Note -
Are we going to get angry next because half of the school stopped serving fries and say "if the kid has money, they should be able to buy them?"
"Bring out the tin foil hats!" - ROFL0 -
...I don't see everything crying about standardized testing. That information gets sent to our government ALL the time. Are we going to get all up in arms that our kids have to take standardized tests (which there is evidence to prove it is actually making American a "more stupid" place to be raised as classes are no longer geared towards learning, but rather towards giving children the information to pass tests).
Side Note -
Are we going to get angry next because half of the school stopped serving fries and say "if the kid has money, they should be able to buy them?"
"Bring out the tin foil hats!" - ROFL
You seriously don't hear the uproar about standardized tests? Parents and teachers all hate them. They were already teaching to the standardized tests in my son's kindergarten. He is now in a private school that only participates in minimal standardized testing in a few grades. He is learning much more now than he ever did in public school.0 -
...I don't see everything crying about standardized testing. That information gets sent to our government ALL the time. Are we going to get all up in arms that our kids have to take standardized tests (which there is evidence to prove it is actually making American a "more stupid" place to be raised as classes are no longer geared towards learning, but rather towards giving children the information to pass tests).
Side Note -
Are we going to get angry next because half of the school stopped serving fries and say "if the kid has money, they should be able to buy them?"
"Bring out the tin foil hats!" - ROFL
You seriously don't hear the uproar about standardized tests? Parents and teachers all hate them. They were already teaching to the standardized tests in my son's kindergarten. He is now in a private school that only participates in minimal standardized testing in a few grades. He is learning much more now than he ever did in public school.
I rarely hear about people complain about the tests...Maybe its the area I grew up in. Everyone is so "must do well, must do well, must do well..."0 -
That blurb of an article didn't provide enough information. I am not inherently paranoid so I couldn't answer whether or not it was indeed an invasion of privacy. (I don't automatically believe that the government tracking data is automatically an invasion of privacy) So I tried to find out more. I found an article with more information and the commens section with some participating parents commenting.
ARTICLE
http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/195899/1/Tipline-Are-Pedometers-in-School-a-Good-Idea
COMMENTS
http://www.wgrz.com/comments/195899/1/Tipline-Are-Pedometers-in-School-a-Good-Idea
I was going to look up the official websites of the participating schools, but got bored with the research.
My opinion: if the parents gave permission, I don't care. From what I read, it seems that no personal data is tracked and reported to the government. It appears that the government is giving a grant in exchange for research data. It aso appears that the pedometer does not have to be worn all the time. in some cases only pre and post data is being collected. Whether or not it s mandatory or is required for a grade is up to the school. In that case those parents cn take that up with the school. However, I don't have problem with that. It's part of the curriculum and is a homework assignment.
Honestly we give up way more info to social media sites like this one and with our Internet searches. I suspect the cellphones those kds carry provide way more information to the government, should they desire, than these pedometers will. The ony way any of ths is an invasion of privacy is if information other than what was agreed upon is being gathered and if any of this is being done without knowledge.
Just my thoughts...0 -
This is from the article...The school districts that are using the pedometers hope the program teaches students the difference between exercise and staying inside.
Really?? Kids don't know the difference now? What a joke. This is just a big waste of tax payer dollars.
Just for the fun of it I decided to check out the school menu of one of the participating school districts. If anyone wants to know why there is a childhood obesity epidemic look no further then there. Maybe this study is to figure out how much activity is needed if you eat the majority of your daily calories at lunch?
http://www.ntschools.org/cms/lib/NY19000908/Centricity/Domain/31/january elementary menu.pdf0 -
I don't know, their sides seem pretty healthy and if the main portion is appropriate serving size, it may not be so bad. Well that is assuming they only get one main item. Looks way better than when I went to school. But I will agree, school lunches definitely aren't known for health benefits.
By the way, found this regarding the districts health and wellness policy. Looks like they are trying to improve. Scroll to the end, they have tables on criteria.
http://www.buffaloschools.org/files/news/policy 7515 - district wellness policy.pdf0 -
Last I checked, medical ethics says that parents need to consent to having their child experimented on.
I can't quite see how participating in research that soleley requires the wearing of an external device that measures movement and need not even touch the skin qualifies as "being experimented on"... There's nothing invasive, no risk of any predictable harm (choking, maybe, if a child puts the pedometer in their mouth?!). I don't think medical ethics applies here. Maybe data protection and/or privacy at a push - though I'd imagine the data provided to the body doing the research is not linked to any child's name. They'd be looking at averages and patterns in the population as a whole, not whether little Timmy walks further than little Jamie on a Thursday.0 -
Pay more attention to the world. Standardized tests are a very hot topic.
I rarely hear about people complain about the tests...Maybe its the area I grew up in. Everyone is so "must do well, must do well, must do well..."0 -
My MIL is a teacher and a few of my friends are teachers at various grades and they ALL hate standerized testing.... the only ones that don't are the ones that don't have to teach grades required to take it... I was talking to one of my MIL friends (also a teacher) and I was telling her that if I were to teach (I contemplated it once) I would teach jr high/high school math (love it!) and she told me emphatically NO! because the standardized testing and the pressures it puts on teachers and students is horrible.
But back to the topic... as long as what is sent to the government isn't attached to identities or kids aren't punished for not walking more....0 -
Maybe the parents don't want to know how much of nothing their kids are doing.0
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Or maybe the parents are upset that their children are enrolled in a government study, and will be penalized if they refuse to participate.0
