Being Receptive to Men "Doing For" you

JanieJack
JanieJack Posts: 3,831 Member
I just posted this in the paying for dates thread, but would love to get opinions of those who might not be following that thread:

Back in college (and, admittedly, the first couple months I became single again). I was the kind of woman who refused to let a man do anything for me. If he offered to open my door, I'd say, "That's ok, I've got it." If he offered to pay my way somewhere or help me with my bag, I'd insist I didn't need his help. That's the way I was raised: You don't need a man.

When I moved to the south, I bought a bunch of books about "southern females" and one them was "What Southern Women Know About Flirting." It totally opened my eyes about how today's (especially "northern") women refuse to let a man do little things for them and how they cut down his male ego a tiny little bit by being so harsh. These women don't think they're being harsh, but that's how it feels to many men. The author called this "being receptive" and said (along with learning to smile at men you see), learning to be comfortable with "receiving" gifts, service, protection, and such from a man will open up a world of opportunity.

I think she's right. What do you think?
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Replies

  • zachatta
    zachatta Posts: 1,340 Member
    Coming from the South,

    you are over analyzing opening doors and "southern hospitality".

    Women have opened doors for me down here. (serious)

    It is a culture thing.

    EDIT: Some might even refer to it as manners, haha!

    2ND EDIT: To clarify, it has less to do with flirting, and more to do with being in the South.
  • Roadie2000
    Roadie2000 Posts: 1,801 Member
    I don't know. I've dated a lot of northern women and not very many of them (if any) refused to let me pay or open doors for them. If that is a trend I don't see it happening anywhere around here.

    With that said I would probably see any behavior like that as one of four things:
    1. She doesn't like me very much.
    2. She's a b**ch
    3. She's a feminist
    4. She's trying way too hard to display her independence.

    Either way, none of those are really attractive and I'd probably stay away. Unless she was really hot.
  • PLEASE men, come to my house and take out the garbage, fix my car, take me out and pay for dinner, open doors, and provide me with protection. I would love it.
    But you also have to be in touch with your feelings, ridiculously intelligent, emotionally vulnerable (but still masculine), compliment me profusely, be ambitious and successful, financially secure, and yet spontaneous, charming and witty.

    Now.. what is my obligation in response?
    Surely men aren't expected to do all of this for the simple joy of it. What am I exchanging all of that for? Stroking of their ego? Cooking? Sex?

    I'm totally on board, I just want to know what my role is. :tongue:
  • zachatta
    zachatta Posts: 1,340 Member
    PLEASE men, come to my house and take out the garbage, fix my car, take me out and pay for dinner, open doors, and provide me with protection. I would love it.
    But you also have to be in touch with your feelings, ridiculously intelligent, emotionally vulnerable (but still masculine), compliment me profusely, be ambitious and successful, financially secure, and yet spontaneous, charming and witty.

    Now.. what is my obligation in response?
    Surely men aren't expected to do all of this for the simple joy of it. What am I exchanging all of that for? Stroking of their ego? Cooking? Sex?

    I'm totally on board, I just want to know what my role is. :tongue:

    Ok, just let me know when you get down to NC.
  • MissingMinnesota
    MissingMinnesota Posts: 7,486 Member
  • kimad
    kimad Posts: 3,010 Member
    I was also raised to be independent, I wouldn't say to 'not need a man'. It could partly be becuase I moved 12 hours away from home when I was 19 and had to learn quick to fend for myself.

    Since I started dating in my early 30's (after my kid's dad) I had a really hard time letting a man pay for things. I am independent and wouldn't go on a date if I couldn't afford it so I was always worried about giving the impression of being a 'gold digger'. I have since come to realize alot of men WANT to pay for things, and so I always offer and I don't fight when they say no.

    I have no issues with a guy holding a door open for me (the car door is kinda lame for me), but I always say thank you. I don't get bent out of shape if he walks in first, etc. I also wouldn't say 'I can do that myself' seems kinda rude.

    I am trying to go with the flow and just show my appreciation of same. If something goes 'longer term' then I try to get them back with something - pre buy the show tickets, etc.

    When I dated the last guy (only made it to date 5) he told me on like date 3 I would never pay for anything. So I stopped offering, but it made me feel awkward. Even on date 5 when I was going to his hosue, he wanted to stock the whole thing to my liking, I gave him some suggestions but then said, whatever you have there for snacks is ok. Just seemed a bit much for only date 5.

    ETA: when it becomes more 'established' I have no issues asking a man for help.. with my car, a light bulb, to move something. Don't men love to feel masculine? HAHA
  • kimad
    kimad Posts: 3,010 Member
    PLEASE men, come to my house and take out the garbage, fix my car, take me out and pay for dinner, open doors, and provide me with protection. I would love it.
    But you also have to be in touch with your feelings, ridiculously intelligent, emotionally vulnerable (but still masculine), compliment me profusely, be ambitious and successful, financially secure, and yet spontaneous, charming and witty.

    Now.. what is my obligation in response?
    Surely men aren't expected to do all of this for the simple joy of it. What am I exchanging all of that for? Stroking of their ego? Cooking? Sex?

    I'm totally on board, I just want to know what my role is. :tongue:
    Well said :):)
  • Now.. what is my obligation in response?
    Surely men aren't expected to do all of this for the simple joy of it. What am I exchanging all of that for? Stroking of their ego? Cooking? Sex?

    I'm totally on board, I just want to know what my role is. :tongue:
    Ok, just let me know when you get down to NC.

    Hmm..this could totally work. :wink:
  • kristen6022
    kristen6022 Posts: 1,926 Member
    I am an only child raised to be independent. That's pretty much why I feel I'll never get married. I don't NEED to. I open doors for everyone regardless of sex, let people pay for me when they offer, but I also reciprocate. I guess I've always felt it's 50/50 in the outside world. Give and take.

    My lasted relationship is 50/50. I have my chores, he has his. He'll pay sometimes, and I'll pay sometimes. I've just been offered a job with better potential and benefits, but less pay and I'm going to take it for my future, so he might be paying more after that. He's just happy for the opportunity for me to have a better future.

    I don't think it has anything to do with North vs. South, just be nice to everyone...
  • zachatta
    zachatta Posts: 1,340 Member
    I don't think it has anything to do with North vs. South, just be nice to everyone...

    No you are correct, it is just manners.

    However there really is a difference between locations.

    I grew up in Indiana, and things like what the OP is referring to is much more common down here, hence why it is mostly a culture thing.

    Of course you can open doors for people in the North, it just (usually) isn't as common.

    EDIT: When I say "down here" I am not referring to Indiana, I am referring to NC.
  • Roadie2000
    Roadie2000 Posts: 1,801 Member
    PLEASE men, come to my house and take out the garbage, fix my car, take me out and pay for dinner, open doors, and provide me with protection. I would love it.
    But you also have to be in touch with your feelings, ridiculously intelligent, emotionally vulnerable (but still masculine), compliment me profusely, be ambitious and successful, financially secure, and yet spontaneous, charming and witty.

    Now.. what is my obligation in response?
    Surely men aren't expected to do all of this for the simple joy of it. What am I exchanging all of that for? Stroking of their ego? Cooking? Sex?

    I'm totally on board, I just want to know what my role is. :tongue:
    This is a pretty good answer. Like anybody, we just like to feel wanted. We know you CAN open doors by yourself, we are just trying to be nice and make you feel comfortable. And to not be rude.

    And yeah it doesn't need to turn into a north/south argument. It's been a while since I've spent any time in the south, but people around here generally don't let doors close in people's faces. I think the south might be a little more old school and traditional about some things though.
  • Meghan0116
    Meghan0116 Posts: 1,340 Member
    I was raised to be an independent woman by my parents. They were good about not enforcing gender roles on me and my sister. However, my dad was and still get a gentleman. He opens doors, pays, waits until we are seated to sit, just behaves in a way I wish more men behaved.

    I can still be independent and expect my man to have manners. Funny enough, my boyfriend said that when we first started dating he would try to open doors for me and what not and I made it really hard. I had no idea I was doing that. Guess I got used to opening doors for myself. lol
  • JanieJack
    JanieJack Posts: 3,831 Member
    how today's (especially "northern") women refuse to let a man do little things for them and how they cut down his male ego a tiny little bit by being so harsh. These women don't think they're being harsh, but that's how it feels to many men. The author called this "being receptive" and said (along with learning to smile at men you see), learning to be comfortable with "receiving" gifts, service, protection, and such from a man will open up a world of opportunity.

    Been gone for a couple hours... just realized I didn't write that correctly! You probably knew what I meant, but just for posterity's sake let me add: she called the "I can do it myself; I don't need you" attitude many modern women display when a man tries to do for you as putting out the unreceptive (and unappreciative) vibe, and encouraged women to "be receptive" to the help of all men, not just the ones you think are hot.

    I'm curious: Has anyone other than me heard a woman be rude to a guy who tries to open a door for her or otherwise be helpful? I mean things like "I can get it myself." I used to do this, and heard many women do it too (back in the day). I am surprised that none of the guys responded to that part of my post with how much that bothered them. Maybe it doesn't happen anymore?
  • RunIntheMud
    RunIntheMud Posts: 2,645 Member
    Yes, I've heard women do this. I heard it a lot more when I was in the army. We were "programmed" that everyone in a uniform is a soldier and no person is better than another. There were a lot of women that felt they needed to prove themselves and wouldn't allow men to do anything (even though the men were doing it as a common courtesy for EVERYONE). If a man held a door for me, I would say thank you. If he offered to tutor me, I said thank you, whereas other females would act repulsed. This always bothered me.

    I've heard it in the real world as well only instead of sounding independant the woman always came across sounding snooty and too good for anyone.
  • pa_jorg
    pa_jorg Posts: 4,404 Member
    I'm curious: Has anyone other than me heard a woman be rude to a guy who tries to open a door for her or otherwise be helpful? I mean things like "I can get it myself." I used to do this, and heard many women do it too (back in the day). I am surprised that none of the guys responded to that part of my post with how much that bothered them. Maybe it doesn't happen anymore?

    Actually, no. Being an independent woman and being rude are very different things.

    I tend to agree that so much of the northern / southern thing is cultural. I do what I do because it works for me and the area in which I live... That isn't to say one way is right or wrong. There is a lot to be learned from each model.
  • nolachick
    nolachick Posts: 3,278 Member
    north or south, i love a man who knows how to be a gentleman :love:
  • TheKitsune6
    TheKitsune6 Posts: 5,798 Member
    My dad went out of his way to show my sister and I that women are an equal part of society, capable of anything because they are human and to not let our gender identity stop us from accomplishing whatever we wanted.

    He also taught us to be polite not-as$holes. When someone holds the door for you, you thank them. If you see someone coming, you hold the door for them. I have been offered a seat on the trolley a couple of times, once I took it because I was carrying many things. Usually I found a polite way to refuse as I did not need it, though I expressed that I appreciated the gesture. I have also offered my seat to someone that has seemed burdened by objects/pregnancy/age and have for the most part been met with mutual common courtesy.

    The closest I've gotten to someone getting snippy is when I hold the door and the person just blows by as though it's expected that I do so. Then I fight the urge to trip them and remind myself I'm doing it because it's right and not because I should get recognition.

    I have lived mostly in Germany (Bavaria) and So Cal so I can't say whether it's a north/south/west/east whatever. I believe most people have acknowledged there is a difference between someone being polite and someone being sexist in this day and age. Feminists are not the bra-burning-man-hating-never-shaving-spite-lesbians of the bygone era (there are a few relics, don't get me wrong). A lot of people that identify as feminist are still perfectly capable of being wonderful, loving and patient human beings.

    I would say the problem isn't the that women are independent and don't need men - the problem is the women who are so insecure about it that they have to constantly assert it (especially with the example that Run gave).
  • julesboots
    julesboots Posts: 311 Member
    I've never seen a woman be rude and not accept a door that was held. I'm sure it happens, though.

    I'm not sure it's a north/south issue, either. I'm not southern, but embarrassingly accepting of any kind of courtesy (to the point that I'm afraid it's made me lame). The women in my family are both totally, completely bad *kitten*, and uber feminine, though.

    I've definitely had a weakness for guys who have left the south, and my small sample size says they aren't any more courteous than anybody else.

    Something that always bothered me (that isn't an issue now that I'm in my 30s) was when young men would extend courtesies to me (as a young woman) and ignore the other women around (like my mom). Gross. Opposite of manners.
  • kimad
    kimad Posts: 3,010 Member
    Something that always bothered me (that isn't an issue now that I'm in my 30s) was when young men would extend courtesies to me (as a young woman) and ignore the other women around (like my mom). Gross. Opposite of manners.

    I have witnessed this alot. If I am holding the door open for someone, I may end up holding it open for 10 people becuase that many flooded in. I wouldn't hold it open for, say, my mom, then close it on someone's face behind her becuase my duty was done.
    I totally agree.
  • christine24t
    christine24t Posts: 6,064 Member

    Thank you! It's not about a man and a woman, it's about being polite.

    Funny though they were talking about this on the radio this AM. The female cohost said her bf opened the car door at first when they started dating. She didn't like that, she thought she could do it herself. He accepted her answer, but she said "I like though when you hold the door open when we are out." It's a compromise.

    Three date boy held the door open in his car and it was just awkward.