OHP troubles
victoriannsays
Posts: 568 Member
Been at 70 on my OHP for some time now, tried upping 5lbs today and failed miserably. reduced to 65.. couldn't get it over my head not even once? went to 60 and completed 3x5 with that. I realize OHP progress is slow going, but how on earth am I regressing like this?
Has anyone else had an experience like this? I have already deloaded and went back up, should I do this again? This is such a pain in my *kitten*
Has anyone else had an experience like this? I have already deloaded and went back up, should I do this again? This is such a pain in my *kitten*
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Replies
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OHP is a tough lift to progress. Also, the more advanced you get with a particular lift is, the harder it is to progress it.
At your body weight, 5 reps at 70 is far into intermediate territory, coming very close to advanced. Even at 60 lbs, it's intermediate. When we get into the intermediate level it's time to move on from the novice 5x5 and 3x5 programs into something more advanced that includes periodization. The gains will happen slower from now on, but they will come steadily.
It's sort of a nice problem to have. You are having trouble progressing because of how far you've come.
My recommendation is Wendler's 5/3/1 as a logical next step.. I have also heard good things about The Texas Method.0 -
Thank you taso 0
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Was this 75/65/60 all in one session?
If so, it could be that you just fatigued your muscles so much with the 75 that they couldn't complete your normal reps. I have done this before when I accidentally load too much weight onto the bar and then I fail everything else afterwards... But I see this too, with my patients when I try an exercise that is too advanced and then they can't finish anything else afterwards because they have so much muscle fatigue.
My recommendation would be at the next session, start with 65 again and get yourself some fractionals (or faux fractionals) to work up to and get yourself to progress beyond 70. Or take taso's advice and switch to a 5/3/1 or something similar. But I'm no expert, I just started recently.0 -
Have you considered fractionals?
Not being able to jump 5 lbs on presses is a common female problem from what I understand. Fractional increasing can help get you over the hump and allow you to progress without having to constantly deload/reload/stall.
Course I'm only in my 5th week and by no means an expert, but I bought me some washers last week and am going to just crawl up in 1.2 to 2.4 lb increments on things where 5 lbs seems a little much. So far, so good. It's a much more manageable jump on the upper body stuffs for me.
Or listen to Taso cause he lifts competitively so he probably knows more than me.
I'm just quoting Mr. Rippetoe and throwing in my little bit of personal experience. :flowerforyou:0 -
OHP is a tough lift to progress. Also, the more advanced you get with a particular lift is, the harder it is to progress it.
At your body weight, 5 reps at 70 is far into intermediate territory, coming very close to advanced. Even at 60 lbs, it's intermediate. When we get into the intermediate level it's time to move on from the novice 5x5 and 3x5 programs into something more advanced that includes periodization. The gains will happen slower from now on, but they will come steadily.
It's sort of a nice problem to have. You are having trouble progressing because of how far you've come.
My recommendation is Wendler's 5/3/1 as a logical next step.. I have also heard good things about The Texas Method.
How does one determine "intermediate" category? A % of body weight? (obviously varies per lift.)0 -
OHP is a tough lift to progress. Also, the more advanced you get with a particular lift is, the harder it is to progress it.
At your body weight, 5 reps at 70 is far into intermediate territory, coming very close to advanced. Even at 60 lbs, it's intermediate. When we get into the intermediate level it's time to move on from the novice 5x5 and 3x5 programs into something more advanced that includes periodization. The gains will happen slower from now on, but they will come steadily.
It's sort of a nice problem to have. You are having trouble progressing because of how far you've come.
My recommendation is Wendler's 5/3/1 as a logical next step.. I have also heard good things about The Texas Method.
How does one determine "intermediate" category? A % of body weight? (obviously varies per lift.)
You can punch your numbers into http://strstd.com/0 -
Have you considered fractionals?
Not being able to jump 5 lbs on presses is a common female problem from what I understand. Fractional increasing can help get you over the hump and allow you to progress without having to constantly deload/reload/stall.
Course I'm only in my 5th week and by no means an expert, but I bought me some washers last week and am going to just crawl up in 1.2 to 2.4 lb increments on things where 5 lbs seems a little much. So far, so good. It's a much more manageable jump on the upper body stuffs for me.
Or listen to Taso cause he lifts competitively so he probably knows more than me.
I'm just quoting Mr. Rippetoe and throwing in my little bit of personal experience. :flowerforyou:
I love my fractionals for OHP!!! Also, I believe stronglifts is set up so that when you deload an exercise three times, then it's time to switch to 3x5. The flexibility of that is that you can do 3x5 for OHP and still 5x5 on the other lifts while you're still progressing. From what I understand women especially move to 3x5 on OHP and bench first.0 -
Also, I believe stronglifts is set up so that when you deload an exercise three times, then it's time to switch to 3x5.
This is my main hangup with SL: the 5x5 volume. I would say switch to 3x5 the very first time you hit a wall. Maybe even start out on 3x5 if you have any lifting experience whatsoever.0 -
This is my main hangup with SL: the 5x5 volume. I would say switch to 3x5 the very first time you hit a wall. Maybe even start out on 3x5 if you have any lifting experience whatsoever.
I do 3x5 on my work sets and like that a lot. It's what SS is built on and it's more than adequate. I'm not a fan of the 5x5 either which is why I'm not doing SL (but the gals here let me hang out anyway, which I appreciate :bigsmile: ).
Alternately you can do something like 2x8 or whatnot also (lower the sets, up the reps). There's lots of ways to train lifting effectively, so I don't recommend boxing yourself in and making yourself crazy if you can't always hit the x amounts of sets with the y amount of reps, but do keep progressing and do stay consistent.0 -
Wendler's 5/3/1 is for advanced lifters. Texas method is for intermediate lifters. My suggestion would be to try and stay on linear progression as long as possible.0
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Yes, happened to me several times with OHP....I was at 60...had to go down to 50....back up to 60...back down...etc.0
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Wendler's 5/3/1 is for advanced lifters. Texas method is for intermediate lifters. My suggestion would be to try and stay on linear progression as long as possible.
I agree with staying on linear progression as long as possible - but not longer.
Have always thought of 5/3/1 as an intermediate program. I was intermediate when I started, and it got me to advanced. From a quick google it does seem that many regard it as "more advanced" than Texas method. In some sense, I think that may make it even better suited to women, as the programmed progression is a bit slower, and women progress slower than men in general, due to testosterone differences.0 -
You can punch your numbers into http://strstd.com/
Thanks! I have that bookmarked, but I never realized it was so...official
You are wise in the ways of science!0 -
Also, I believe stronglifts is set up so that when you deload an exercise three times, then it's time to switch to 3x5.
This is my main hangup with SL: the 5x5 volume. I would say switch to 3x5 the very first time you hit a wall. Maybe even start out on 3x5 if you have any lifting experience whatsoever.
Dude! Where WERE you almost four weeks ago when I started this? LOL! :bigsmile:
I think I really like this advice. Thank you!
ETA: OHP is the hardest one for me. I thought bench was going to kick my tail, but I'm progressing there. OHP? @#$*(& Bane of my workout existence.0 -
Wendler's 5/3/1 is for advanced lifters. Texas method is for intermediate lifters. My suggestion would be to try and stay on linear progression as long as possible.
I agree with staying on linear progression as long as possible - but not longer.
Have always thought of 5/3/1 as an intermediate program. I was intermediate when I started, and it got me to advanced. From a quick google it does seem that many regard it as "more advanced" than Texas method. In some sense, I think that may make it even better suited to women, as the programmed progression is a bit slower, and women progress slower than men in general, due to testosterone differences.
I could see an argument for that, ESPECIALLY because you ideally should be picking assistance lifts that are beneficial for YOU which means you need enough experience and confidence to recognize when a lift is or isn't good at assisting you. (Like my husband has a hard time getting as much pec engagement with a DB bench press as he does with flys or a decline bench, but the DB bench is really good for me because my issues are less chest and more arm/joint/stability strength related).
But its not like you can't just pick one, try it for 2 months, and then try something different and evaluate. Slower maybe but not impossible.
In my opinion it comes down to a decision about how you as a person manage recovery and longer work sessions. I personally do very poorly doing a lot of work in one day - the work I do at the end of my lifting session is much lower quality than the stuff I do at the beginning. Every time one of you crazy ladies comes in here and says they go and do three more exercises afterwards, I think you are FREAKING. NUTS.
But other people do VERY well doing that much work. And that to me is the big difference.
I really benefit (as does my husband) from the low volume of 5/3/1 and the emphasis on "do this one lift very well, your absolute best, and the rest of it is just ...however you feel" -- I walk out of the gym after only doing half the recommended assistance sets, LOTS of days. Or I feel tired and drop my weight a little for assistance. Or drop my reps. Or I do one set, feel too tired, and leave. We were struggling with 3 major lifts every day, we'd get to the third one, or even the second, and we'd just be too damn tired for it.
But I know other people are like "RAWR I CAN DO THIS ALL NIGHT" or they think "wait is this IT?" and I think they should seriously give Texas/Madcow a try first, because you WILL make potentially faster progression that way, and more importantly you will probably be happier with it.0 -
Just popping in to third the fractionals vote.
WRT which program to switch to, I think it all depends on personal preference and what works for you, your body, your lifestyle, etc.0 -
OHP is a tough lift to progress. Also, the more advanced you get with a particular lift is, the harder it is to progress it.
At your body weight, 5 reps at 70 is far into intermediate territory, coming very close to advanced. Even at 60 lbs, it's intermediate. When we get into the intermediate level it's time to move on from the novice 5x5 and 3x5 programs into something more advanced that includes periodization. The gains will happen slower from now on, but they will come steadily.
It's sort of a nice problem to have. You are having trouble progressing because of how far you've come.
My recommendation is Wendler's 5/3/1 as a logical next step.. I have also heard good things about The Texas Method.
Hey, so this is cool. Just found out that OHP is my strongest lift. I'm solidly between novice and intermediate on that one. Cool.
When they ask how many reps you can do, though, do they mean without rest? Like, say I do 3x5, but with rests in between each set. Would I enter 5 as my rep number? (That's what I did.)0 -
OHP is a tough lift to progress. Also, the more advanced you get with a particular lift is, the harder it is to progress it.
At your body weight, 5 reps at 70 is far into intermediate territory, coming very close to advanced. Even at 60 lbs, it's intermediate. When we get into the intermediate level it's time to move on from the novice 5x5 and 3x5 programs into something more advanced that includes periodization. The gains will happen slower from now on, but they will come steadily.
It's sort of a nice problem to have. You are having trouble progressing because of how far you've come.
My recommendation is Wendler's 5/3/1 as a logical next step.. I have also heard good things about The Texas Method.
Hey, so this is cool. Just found out that OHP is my strongest lift. I'm solidly between novice and intermediate on that one. Cool.
When they ask how many reps you can do, though, do they mean without rest? Like, say I do 3x5, but with rests in between each set. Would I enter 5 as my rep number? (That's what I did.)
Yeah, we were discussing that in the chat thread at some point (probably the rolled one). It's for one set, so use 5 as the rep number.0 -
OHP is a tough lift to progress. Also, the more advanced you get with a particular lift is, the harder it is to progress it.
At your body weight, 5 reps at 70 is far into intermediate territory, coming very close to advanced. Even at 60 lbs, it's intermediate. When we get into the intermediate level it's time to move on from the novice 5x5 and 3x5 programs into something more advanced that includes periodization. The gains will happen slower from now on, but they will come steadily.
It's sort of a nice problem to have. You are having trouble progressing because of how far you've come.
My recommendation is Wendler's 5/3/1 as a logical next step.. I have also heard good things about The Texas Method.
Hey, so this is cool. Just found out that OHP is my strongest lift. I'm solidly between novice and intermediate on that one. Cool.
When they ask how many reps you can do, though, do they mean without rest? Like, say I do 3x5, but with rests in between each set. Would I enter 5 as my rep number? (That's what I did.)
Yeah, we were discussing that in the chat thread at some point (probably the rolled one). It's for one set, so use 5 as the rep number.
Thanks! That's what I figured, so...still, yay! for me and my OHP!0 -
OHP is the bane of my workouts.
I have since moved on from SL as squatting 3 times per week was just way too taxing on me. I progress so super slow with OHP. But...what is helping me is trying to progress very slowly in rep volume first. So.....I was stuck at 60lbs 5x5 on SL. With the program I'm doing now, you do just 2 'work sets'. The first is your 7 rep max (then once you can manage 9 reps, you move up in weight). Your second set is a drop set of 10% less AMARP. Each week, I've been able to crank out just 1 more rep in OHP at 60lbs than I was the week before. So, this past week...I finally got 7 reps. It's not a huge progression, but it's something and eventually, the weight will move up!
BTW, Taso...thanks for posting that link!!!0 -
See taso....this is why we told you that you could stick around :happy:0
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:flowerforyou:0
This discussion has been closed.