3x5? 5/3/1? Madcow/Texas? (Life after 5x5)
tameko2
Posts: 31,634 Member
I know, I promised a write up on deloads but lots of people are asking about this stuff too so.
Moving to 3x5:
Technically, Medhi says move on each movement when you have stalled 3x (that means stall, deload, stall, deload, stall then deload and start again from 3x5).
For squats and deadlifts this probably still works for women. For OHP and Bench, unless you've got access to some very small fractionals (which I recommend! but not everyone can do this) you might find that you want to work the same weight 2-3 days running because those are tough lifts for women to bump up. And I don't think you should necessarily consider that stalling, because the strength differential us ladies have on those lifts compared to guys is pretty huge.
Stalling on the overhead press at 60 or 65 and having to spend MANY sessions banging away at it is pretty normal.
That said -- Starting Strength (which is nearly identical program wise, just uses power cleans instead of pendlay rows) starts out right away at 3x5. If you want to do that, go ahead.
Otherwise, my general rule of thumb is:
1) If it all just feels like too much work and you dun WANNA do 25 reps anymore
2) If you're consistently hitting a full 3 or 4 sets but just losing it on the 5th one
3) if you get to set 4 and think "oh man my arms/legs/whatever are so tired..."
4) If you've spent more than 2 sessions in a row wondering if its time to switch to 3x5
Drop it to 3x5. Its not a big deal - certainly not worth agonizing over.
Do this before you switch to an intermediate program. At least give it a few weeks to see if its still working for you -- in my case, after about 2 weeks I concluded it was just too much now and I needed to change, but other people do it for AGES and are fine.
Intermediate to Advanced Programs -- what you chose is going to depend a little bit on what kind of person you are, what your other goals are, etc. They're all pretty darn similar though in that they all use some kind of periodization (which means you have heavy low rep days, lighter high rep days, etc -- the purpose of this is twofold, recovery and type of work - more endurance or more pure strength).
Madcow - this is the one that Medhi currently pimps, because its simple and does not require any self-developed programming.
http://stronglifts.com/madcow-5x5-training-programs/
Short version is that this is still Stronglifts but now you are only doing 1 set at a heavy(ish) weight, and the other sets are ramping up to that weight (so you'll do a set at 60lbs, then 70, then 80, then 90, rather than 90 for 4 sets). You're also going to have days that you do sets of 3 (but heavy!) and sets of 5 (slightly lighter).
Weight increases are weekly, not per-workout.
Texas Method - there is a brief writeup here (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_texas_method -- PLEASE BEWARE OF T-Nation. Some information is good there and other information is terrible. Read anything with a grain of salt) but you should buy the book (practical programming by mark rippetoe) to understand the details. Its INCREDIBLY similar to madcow (Frankly Madcow is probably just an application of this method) but it requires a bit more home-program development.
I believe weight increases here are also weekly though - I haven't done as much reading on this because I don't have the book.
BUY. THE. BOOK. I do not recommend you try to build a program off stuff you read online. You'll get something workable together, but this type of programming requires you to have enough knowledge to make good exercise choices.
Wendler 5/3/1 - Again. Book. Its not long or expensive but I do recommend it, despite the offensively named "North of Vag" section - there are a TON of recommended assistance templates, and explanations of WHY you might choose one over the other, and all those websites and the app that's available don't go into any of that detail. You need to know WHY you're picking the exercises you're picking. That's part of no longer being a beginner.
The big differences between Wendler 5/3/1 and MadCow or Texas are that Wendler 5/3/1 is 4x/week instead of 3 (although it CAN be done on a 3x schedule) and each day is much lower volume. Oh and you only increase weight ONCE. A. MONTH.
Before you pick this program, ask yourself seriously, SERIOUSLY if you are ok with that. If you bench 90lbs right now, that means you will not be benching 100lbs for 8 weeks. Eight. See it? Ok then.
5/3/1 programming is done in month cycles instead of weeks - so its not a heavy day, a medium day, and a light day. Its a heavy week, a medium week, a light week, and a deload week. You do 1 major lift each workout, and 2 assistance lifts. Assistance lifts are chosen by you, based on your goals and your body (if your bench suffers from pec weakness for example, you'd pick an assistance lift that addresses that weakness).
It would take me AGES to explain this one in detail so....get the book http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?pid=2976
Moving to 3x5:
Technically, Medhi says move on each movement when you have stalled 3x (that means stall, deload, stall, deload, stall then deload and start again from 3x5).
For squats and deadlifts this probably still works for women. For OHP and Bench, unless you've got access to some very small fractionals (which I recommend! but not everyone can do this) you might find that you want to work the same weight 2-3 days running because those are tough lifts for women to bump up. And I don't think you should necessarily consider that stalling, because the strength differential us ladies have on those lifts compared to guys is pretty huge.
Stalling on the overhead press at 60 or 65 and having to spend MANY sessions banging away at it is pretty normal.
That said -- Starting Strength (which is nearly identical program wise, just uses power cleans instead of pendlay rows) starts out right away at 3x5. If you want to do that, go ahead.
Otherwise, my general rule of thumb is:
1) If it all just feels like too much work and you dun WANNA do 25 reps anymore
2) If you're consistently hitting a full 3 or 4 sets but just losing it on the 5th one
3) if you get to set 4 and think "oh man my arms/legs/whatever are so tired..."
4) If you've spent more than 2 sessions in a row wondering if its time to switch to 3x5
Drop it to 3x5. Its not a big deal - certainly not worth agonizing over.
Do this before you switch to an intermediate program. At least give it a few weeks to see if its still working for you -- in my case, after about 2 weeks I concluded it was just too much now and I needed to change, but other people do it for AGES and are fine.
Intermediate to Advanced Programs -- what you chose is going to depend a little bit on what kind of person you are, what your other goals are, etc. They're all pretty darn similar though in that they all use some kind of periodization (which means you have heavy low rep days, lighter high rep days, etc -- the purpose of this is twofold, recovery and type of work - more endurance or more pure strength).
Madcow - this is the one that Medhi currently pimps, because its simple and does not require any self-developed programming.
http://stronglifts.com/madcow-5x5-training-programs/
Short version is that this is still Stronglifts but now you are only doing 1 set at a heavy(ish) weight, and the other sets are ramping up to that weight (so you'll do a set at 60lbs, then 70, then 80, then 90, rather than 90 for 4 sets). You're also going to have days that you do sets of 3 (but heavy!) and sets of 5 (slightly lighter).
Weight increases are weekly, not per-workout.
Texas Method - there is a brief writeup here (http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_texas_method -- PLEASE BEWARE OF T-Nation. Some information is good there and other information is terrible. Read anything with a grain of salt) but you should buy the book (practical programming by mark rippetoe) to understand the details. Its INCREDIBLY similar to madcow (Frankly Madcow is probably just an application of this method) but it requires a bit more home-program development.
I believe weight increases here are also weekly though - I haven't done as much reading on this because I don't have the book.
BUY. THE. BOOK. I do not recommend you try to build a program off stuff you read online. You'll get something workable together, but this type of programming requires you to have enough knowledge to make good exercise choices.
Wendler 5/3/1 - Again. Book. Its not long or expensive but I do recommend it, despite the offensively named "North of Vag" section - there are a TON of recommended assistance templates, and explanations of WHY you might choose one over the other, and all those websites and the app that's available don't go into any of that detail. You need to know WHY you're picking the exercises you're picking. That's part of no longer being a beginner.
The big differences between Wendler 5/3/1 and MadCow or Texas are that Wendler 5/3/1 is 4x/week instead of 3 (although it CAN be done on a 3x schedule) and each day is much lower volume. Oh and you only increase weight ONCE. A. MONTH.
Before you pick this program, ask yourself seriously, SERIOUSLY if you are ok with that. If you bench 90lbs right now, that means you will not be benching 100lbs for 8 weeks. Eight. See it? Ok then.
5/3/1 programming is done in month cycles instead of weeks - so its not a heavy day, a medium day, and a light day. Its a heavy week, a medium week, a light week, and a deload week. You do 1 major lift each workout, and 2 assistance lifts. Assistance lifts are chosen by you, based on your goals and your body (if your bench suffers from pec weakness for example, you'd pick an assistance lift that addresses that weakness).
It would take me AGES to explain this one in detail so....get the book http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?pid=2976
3
Replies
-
PS: if anyone wants to suggest other programs, and do a quick writeup, send me a PM. Otherwise, I'm locking this thread down so it doesn't get cluttered.1
This discussion has been closed.