The things that have come up lately

Moe4572

http://yahoo.match.com/y/article.aspx?articleid=13271&TrackingID=526103&BannerID=1430188

This article hits on many key points we have discussed lately.........so thought some of you might be interested--I agree with some of it not so much with other points.......

TheKitsune6

I checked out after this BS

Sherrie: Let men initially travel to you; don’t split the check; and finally, don’t talk too much in the first few weeks of dating. Why? It’s because men and women are biologically different from each other. Men love a challenge, and they like women who are busy having a life of their own and who don’t make everything about them in the early stages of dating.

Those women don't seem to be relevant to my age group, and if they're still single and worrying about rules and games at that age, you'll excuse me if I pass.

P.S. I'm not saying older women don't know what they're talking about. I'm saying that if they're still writing books about being single since the 90's I'm going to take their advice with a grain of salt. On the flip side, if they ARE married, one should hope they're not still updating their dating prowess while targeting a younger generation.

MissingMinnesota

I checked out after this BS

Sherrie: Let men initially travel to you; don’t split the check; and finally, don’t talk too much in the first few weeks of dating. Why? It’s because men and women are biologically different from each other. Men love a challenge, and they like women who are busy having a life of their own and who don’t make everything about them in the early stages of dating.

Those women don't seem to be relevant to my age group, and if they're still single and worrying about rules and games at that age, you'll excuse me if I pass.

P.S. I'm not saying older women don't know what they're talking about. I'm saying that if they're still writing books about being single since the 90's I'm going to take their advice with a grain of salt. On the flip side, if they ARE married, one should hope they're not still updating their dating prowess while targeting a younger generation.

The quote actually reminds me of some things that DM used to say.

ItsCasey

I have read their original book, and it is definitely dated, so I can understand why they released a new version. I just don't like how they seem to insist that the goal of finding a man and getting married is so that you won't face the social trauma of not having someone to send you flowers on your birthday. It's not about being happy and choosing to be with someone you love deeply and want to spend the rest of your life with ... it's just about not being the pathetic, lonely spinster everyone whispers about.

While I don't believe in playing games (like pretending to be busy when you're really not or choosing not to return his calls because you want him to think you just have too much going on), I do think their basic message about retaining a bit of mystery and letting things unfold a bit at a time is true. At least, it has proven to be true for me.

When I was in college, I was all about the all-night chats and getting to know each other on a very deep level right away. It worked great. As an adult, it really hasn't. The last time I did that with a guy, it was fireworks for about 6 weeks, and then it died a slow, painful death. The guy I'm seeing/talking to now, totally different scenario. I genuinely look forward to and get excited about every phone call and every time we get together because we aren't texting each other all day long, and we don't see each other every day, and we don't know everything there is to know about each other yet. I like it that way.

christine24t

JQ agree about the idea that you should want a relationship, and not just someone so you're not a lonely spinster.

I see their point on many things but I think they word it wrong. By the not talking thing, I think they mean that you shouldn't be monopolizing the conversation. Women are more chatty then men typically so they have a tendency to fill silences with words and they ramble awkwardly. Instead of doing that, accept the silences and wait to fill them with real words not just word vomit.

Tube_socks

I have read their original book, and it is definitely dated, so I can understand why they released a new version. I just don't like how they seem to insist that the goal of finding a man and getting married is so that you won't face the social trauma of not having someone to send you flowers on your birthday. It's not about being happy and choosing to be with someone you love deeply and want to spend the rest of your life with ... it's just about not being the pathetic, lonely spinster everyone whispers about.

While I don't believe in playing games (like pretending to be busy when you're really not or choosing not to return his calls because you want him to think you just have too much going on), I do think their basic message about retaining a bit of mystery and letting things unfold a bit at a time is true. At least, it has proven to be true for me.

When I was in college, I was all about the all-night chats and getting to know each other on a very deep level right away. It worked great. As an adult, it really hasn't. The last time I did that with a guy, it was fireworks for about 6 weeks, and then it died a slow, painful death. The guy I'm seeing/talking to now, totally different scenario. I genuinely look forward to and get excited about every phone call and every time we get together because we aren't texting each other all day long, and we don't see each other every day, and we don't know everything there is to know about each other yet. I like it that way.

Completely agree! For the first time I have let things unfold naturally and I'm reaping the benefits with my bf. I used to get caught up in my emotions, the high, the intoxication of newness and it'd die soon. With my current fella, we've been dating 4 months now (omg!) and each month has gotten more exciting than the last for both of us vs getting less exciting.

I think the not talking too much is good. On the other hand, I'm a chatterbox. I'm not a quiet woman. But I have kept my mystery and I can tell when we do have deeper conversations he actually listens because he cares about me.

flimflamfloz

I genuinely look forward to and get excited about every phone call and every time we get together because we aren't texting each other all day long, and we don't see each other every day, and we don't know everything there is to know about each other yet. I like it that way.

What I believe deep down is that modern successful relationships happen when the trajectories of two independent individuals cross.

It might not have been true in the past, but I think these days with empowered women and the incredible social reach we have (social networks, dating websites,...) which affects our dating pool and relationships in genera, as well as incredibly busier lifestyles, I don't really believe in the type of fusional relationships the previous generations had (for example).
It used to be the norm back then, but I don't think it would be possible these days with the same level of success.
People are just less... naive. The world is a smaller place.

nhsoprano

I genuinely look forward to and get excited about every phone call and every time we get together because we aren't texting each other all day long, and we don't see each other every day, and we don't know everything there is to know about each other yet. I like it that way.

What I believe deep down is that modern successful relationships happen when the trajectories of two independent individuals cross.

It might not have been true in the past, but I think these days with empowered women and the incredible social reach we have (social networks, dating websites,...) which affects our dating pool and relationships in genera, as well as incredibly busier lifestyles, I don't really believe in the type of fusional relationships the previous generations had (for example).
It used to be the norm back then, but I don't think it would be possible these days with the same level of success.
People are just less... naive. The world is a smaller place.

I quite like this. For me, it isn't hard to pretend to be busy -- I am busy. I don't want to be all wrapped up in somebody else's world, and frankly I get bored when a guy wants to be all wrapped up in mine. I think some of the best couples are the ones who give each other space and time to miss the other. Really, how much is there to talk about when the only person you spend time with is your so?

Edit: Typing too fast on my phone!

kimad

While I don't believe in playing games (like pretending to be busy when you're really not or choosing not to return his calls because you want him to think you just have too much going on), I do think their basic message about retaining a bit of mystery and letting things unfold a bit at a time is true. At least, it has proven to be true for me.

I think a bit of the issue is the book is telling you to 'play games' or 'play hard to get'. The independent people who have a good, busy, independent life do this by nature, not becuase a book is telling them too. Meaning, I am not pushing a guy for a date everyday, or to talk everyday, or what have you becuase I DONT HAVE THE TIME!! I have my own life, I have my own social circle, I have kids...and I can't give you a needy women, becuase I am not one.

What I do struggle with sometimes is the balance, how much time to spend talking, how much to actually say, etc. I try to go with the flow and what I am getting back from them. If someone texts or whatnot, if I am free I will text back. I don't purposely ignore them for 24 hours - but I may for a few if I am at the gym or whatever.

Even with a new independent lifestyle (a far opposite from my needy 20's) I still can't seem to find a decent match. Most of the men are flakes no matter what 'strategies' I employ!

kimad

Completely agree! For the first time I have let things unfold naturally and I'm reaping the benefits with my bf. I used to get caught up in my emotions, the high, the intoxication of newness and it'd die soon. With my current fella, we've been dating 4 months now (omg!) and each month has gotten more exciting than the last for both of us vs getting less exciting.

Congrats, that is awesome.
I too, am trying to do the 'go with the flow' but sometimes I find myself getting caught up in the men and what they 'present' with...soemtimes it's taking a step back to calm your emotions!

What I believe deep down is that modern successful relationships happen when the trajectories of two independent individuals cross.

I agree.. I really believe it is finding that perfect balance!

kls13la

The Rules were my Bible when I was in my early 20s, and while there is definitely some stupid advice in there, it's overall message is excellent. I never viewed it as "playing games" so much as "get a life." A lot of what they say revolves around making sure you are busy with your own interests and life so you aren't sitting around wondering why he isn't calling and depending on him to be your new best girlfriend, being tempted to call him too much, sleeping with him before you are ready to handle the result, and being too needy or desperate early on in a relationship. If you focus on the bigger picture rather than some of the sillier things they say, it's a great read, and I found a lot of it to be very true, especially the maintaining your mystery advice. I think it's great that they released an updated version.

kimad

I actually just read the article, and I agree with most of what it has to say.
I didn't find this read to be alot of 'game playing' I think this is still natural behavior for women with lives of their own... I think maybe to a needy/insecure woman she would need to treat it like a game until it was natural to her.

I do alot of this stuff - I never initiate a text with a man, but I will respond to his. If I don't hear for 4 hours, 1 day, 2 days, I won't engage him. Unless of course it was an established relationship and weird.

I also have a set schedule, so I would turn a man down becuase I have stuff going on. I don't have to do it as a 'game' I do it becuase I have priorities (my kids, my friends, my gym workouts lol)

So I read this and I think to myself, I do this all already, but I am still struggling - so like they said, Mr Right still isn't there.
My problems lie more in, maintaing the mystery, chatting too much on occasion, etc. Also, due to my bad ex past trusting that all men aren't the same and to stop judging them so quickly!!!

TheKitsune6

I didn't find this read to be alot of 'game playing' I think this is still natural behavior for women with lives of their own... I think maybe to a needy/insecure woman she would need to treat it like a game until it was natural to her.

Except this isn't about being busy and developing yourself. It's about pretending to do such things until you snag a man because it's more important to have someone than be single. They don't say "Hey, maybe reflect on why you are texting him seven times in a row." they're just saying "Don't because you want to be mysterious!!". It's not about personal development, it's about pretending following the rules of a game until you "win".

I DO have a lot going on and I'm not afraid to tell someone I'm too busy. But I'm also not afraid to initiate a conversation, or go up to a guy and tell him I like him and we should go on a date. These things work for me. So yeah, it feels a bit contrived and silly to have someone draw up a manual on "how it's done" when it's really about selling books to saps who need more therapy than directions.

I'm not saying these tactics don't work, I'm saying long term unless you do what is natural and healthy FOR YOU and not what someone else says should be "normal" then you're setting yourself up for failure.

kimad

I didn't find this read to be alot of 'game playing' I think this is still natural behavior for women with lives of their own... I think maybe to a needy/insecure woman she would need to treat it like a game until it was natural to her.

Except this isn't about being busy and developing yourself. It's about pretending to do such things until you snag a man because it's more important to have someone than be single. They don't say "Hey, maybe reflect on why you are texting him seven times in a row." they're just saying "Don't because you want to be mysterious!!". It's not about personal development, it's about pretending following the rules of a game until you "win".

I DO have a lot going on and I'm not afraid to tell someone I'm too busy. But I'm also not afraid to initiate a conversation, or go up to a guy and tell him I like him and we should go on a date. These things work for me. So yeah, it feels a bit contrived and silly to have someone draw up a manual on "how it's done" when it's really about selling books to saps who need more therapy than directions.

I'm not saying these tactics don't work, I'm saying long term unless you do what is natural and healthy FOR YOU and not what someone else says should be "normal" then you're setting yourself up for failure.

Sorry Kit, I missed the part on needing to be with a man becuase you shouldn't be single.... I don't agree with that in the slightest.
I would much rather be single, than be miserable...been there, done that!

And I will also agree with ''Hey, maybe reflect on why you are texting him seven times in a row." I guess when I think about your comment, and put it into perspective in MY Life... I have made the personal development and dove deep into what went wrong in my past, why I was needy/insecure, why I was a doormat and I have worked hard to change myself. So maybe that is why I don't see it as a 'game' but more as a natural thing for me.

I am not saying what they are saying is the be all, end all.. I am agreeing that alot of what they say is accurate, and I agree becuase it is what comes natural to me. Again, I don't agree with it all. Trust me, you know some of my stories, and I have gotten to the point where I was like 'WTH do I do now?? I have my internal instincts, and I have the book - who do I follow?'' In the end I follow myself. You also need to do what is best for you, and as you said - maybe we should work on ourselves from the inside out, not just follow some 'rules' in a book.

I'd like to think I changed myself.... Well I know I have, and I am proud of that.

RunIntheMud

I'm not saying these tactics don't work, I'm saying long term unless you do what is natural and healthy FOR YOU and not what someone else says should be "normal" then you're setting yourself up for failure.

Absolutely this....

Live your life as you normally would. The right man or woman will fit into your life and not be a square peg in a round hole. My time fluctuates throughout the year, with spring and fall being extremely busy (baseball season). Summer is still busy, and winter is usually pretty quiet. I've had men that were put off by the idea that I was so consumed with the baseball season, however most men I meet are single dads that love that I am so involved.

Bottom line is: This is my life. This is who I am and any man in my life needs to realize this early on and know that it won't change. I'll make sure he knows there is time for him, but our mutual flexibility and communication is ultimately what will make or break the relationship.

ItsCasey

The Rules were my Bible when I was in my early 20s, and while there is definitely some stupid advice in there, it's overall message is excellent. I never viewed it as "playing games" so much as "get a life." A lot of what they say revolves around making sure you are busy with your own interests and life so you aren't sitting around wondering why he isn't calling and depending on him to be your new best girlfriend, being tempted to call him too much, sleeping with him before you are ready to handle the result, and being too needy or desperate early on in a relationship. If you focus on the bigger picture rather than some of the sillier things they say, it's a great read, and I found a lot of it to be very true, especially the maintaining your mystery advice. I think it's great that they released an updated version.

I have the opposite opinion of the original book. I think there are a few pieces of great advice scattered here and there, but for the most part, it encourages women to orchestrate this grand deception of being nearly impossible to win over because how will you know that a man truly loves you if you don't practically force him to surrender his manhood to get your attention?

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

I have ignored texts before but only because I was annoyed by them, not because I was trying to pretend I was busy. This guy (who I was actually very interested in) called me from a new number one night, and I didn't answer because I didn't recognize the number. He didn't leave a voicemail but instead proceeded to text me 6 times over the next 2 hours, asking why I wasn't responding to him. He finally called and left a voicemail letting me know who it was, which he should've done in the first place. I called him back the next day.

kimad

The Rules were my Bible when I was in my early 20s, and while there is definitely some stupid advice in there, it's overall message is excellent. I never viewed it as "playing games" so much as "get a life." A lot of what they say revolves around making sure you are busy with your own interests and life so you aren't sitting around wondering why he isn't calling and depending on him to be your new best girlfriend, being tempted to call him too much, sleeping with him before you are ready to handle the result, and being too needy or desperate early on in a relationship. If you focus on the bigger picture rather than some of the sillier things they say, it's a great read, and I found a lot of it to be very true, especially the maintaining your mystery advice. I think it's great that they released an updated version.

I have the opposite opinion of the original book. I think there are a few pieces of great advice scattered here and there, but for the most part, it encourages women to orchestrate this grand deception of being nearly impossible to win over because how will you know that a man truly loves you if you don't practically force him to surrender his manhood to get your attention?

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

I have ignored texts before but only because I was annoyed by them, not because I was trying to pretend I was busy. This guy (who I was actually very interested in) called me from a new number one night, and I didn't answer because I didn't recognize the number. He didn't leave a voicemail but instead proceeded to text me 6 times over the next 2 hours, asking why I wasn't responding to him. He finally called and left a voicemail letting me know who it was, which he should've done in the first place. I called him back the next day.

It's funny because I say I agree with the book/techniques because I do a lot of it by nature but when you give those example (as others have done) it sounds terribly rude and horrible. I don't turn them down if I don't have plans but I won't change my plans to suit them, etc. if just ones own perspective on it I guess and how it relates to what they are already doing.

Roadie2000

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

Exactly. As a guy, I don't try to date people that are always unavailable. I just don't think that far ahead, it would never work out anyway. And as they blow me off to stay home and do their nails, I've probably moved on to someone else that actually acts like they want to hang out with me.

And try not returning even one of my calls and see if I ever bother to call them back. In my experience if someone doesn't call you back it means they don't want to talk to you. I've tried working harder to win people over and have failed miserably every time. When people try to play games with me, I play my own game. It's called "Let's see who can give less of a f**k." I win every time.

nolachick

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

Exactly. As a guy, I don't try to date people that are always unavailable. I just don't think that far ahead, it would never work out anyway. And as they blow me off to stay home and do their nails, I've probably moved on to someone else that actually acts like they want to hang out with me.

And try not returning even one of my calls and see if I ever bother to call them back. In my experience if someone doesn't call you back it means they don't want to talk to you. I've tried working harder to win people over and have failed miserably every time. When people try to play games with me, I play my own game. It's called "Let's see who can give less of a f**k." I win every time.

funny that you say this because guys play their own games too. the last guy I was seeing, I went in with an open mind, no games.
at the beginning I was genuinely busy and couldn't hang out for a couple weeks because my parents were in town then I was travelling a lot for work. he kept pursuing. I started freeing up and we saw each other a bunch of times, each time it was a lot of fun so here I was thinking its going well when....texts started to slow down, making plans slowed down, etc. apparently it was "too much too soon". wth?

I do believe men like to play games and love the thrill of the chasing.

Roadie2000

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

Exactly. As a guy, I don't try to date people that are always unavailable. I just don't think that far ahead, it would never work out anyway. And as they blow me off to stay home and do their nails, I've probably moved on to someone else that actually acts like they want to hang out with me.

And try not returning even one of my calls and see if I ever bother to call them back. In my experience if someone doesn't call you back it means they don't want to talk to you. I've tried working harder to win people over and have failed miserably every time. When people try to play games with me, I play my own game. It's called "Let's see who can give less of a f**k." I win every time.

funny that you say this because guys play their own games too. the last guy I was seeing, I went in with an open mind, no games.
at the beginning I was genuinely busy and couldn't hang out for a couple weeks because my parents were in town then I was travelling a lot for work. he kept pursuing. I started freeing up and we saw each other a bunch of times, each time it was a lot of fun so here I was thinking its going well when....texts started to slow down, making plans slowed down, etc. apparently it was "too much too soon". wth?

I do believe men like to play games and love the thrill of the chasing.

Well the example you gave sounds more like he just wasn't that into you and less like he was playing games, but I can't disagree with your last statement.

All I can say is that with me, it's not necessarily the thrill of the chase. I like the part when I am first getting to know someone, there's a lot to talk about, it's exciting, and I'm always optimistic. Sometimes the spark just dies rather quickly.

jenbit

It absolutely does tell you to play games. It says that if a guy calls you on Thursday to ask you out for Saturday, you should turn him down because you want to send him the message that you are in such high demand that he can't wait till two days before the weekend to ask you out. Even if your "plans" include nothing more than staying home and doing your nails, you're supposed to say you are busy so that it doesn't seem like you have nothing going on. I just think that is ridiculous. If you like the guy and you're not busy, why on Earth would you turn him down?

It also tells you to not return every phone call because if a guy really likes you, he will keep trying to reach you. That's exceedingly rude, in my opinion, and I would not continue to pursue someone who doesn't return my calls. That doesn't say "I'm a great catch, and you need to try harder to win me over." It screams "I'm not interested in you. Please go away."

Exactly. As a guy, I don't try to date people that are always unavailable. I just don't think that far ahead, it would never work out anyway. And as they blow me off to stay home and do their nails, I've probably moved on to someone else that actually acts like they want to hang out with me.

And try not returning even one of my calls and see if I ever bother to call them back. In my experience if someone doesn't call you back it means they don't want to talk to you. I've tried working harder to win people over and have failed miserably every time. When people try to play games with me, I play my own game. It's called "Let's see who can give less of a f**k." I win every time.

^^^^ Thank you Roadie :flowerforyou:

I have never understood books like this that tell you to turn down a date or "be busy" (if you are busy that s fine but dont fake it)
I accept dates or hanging out the day of if I have no plans. I always answer a text message a soon as possible (its rude not too) And if at all possible I answer my phone or call the person back. If I can't answer my phone I text them telling them why..... Game playing is for high school.....

You know what though my social calander is full and I always have a guy or 2 to "hang with"... THe only reason I am single is because I haven't found the right guy to date....

Books like this are just as bad as pick up books for guys.... Be yourself ,dont be clingy but be willing to engage in conversation and relax. SHow people who you really are and watch them like it