Is Being Lesbian/Gay...A Lifestyle?
Replies
-
Being gay is only one attribute about me. I am so much more. I hate when friends say, you are gay why are you doing that. I do what I like and get into hobbies that interest me and don't care if they are gay norms, straight norms or anything else.0
-
No, it is absolutely not a lifestyle. I was born gay - I know this for a fact. I remember being in elementary school and not having crushes on boys like the other girls did. I've always been more attracted to women. Another misconception is that being gay is all about sex - which again is not the case. I am attracted to women because I connect better with them not just physically but on an emotional level as well.0
-
As a sexuality, no. However, I think that maybe yes when it comes to how a person "styles" their life....
Hopefully, I can explain myself better. I'm Native American and while I was taught traditional beliefs, go to pow wows, and things like that, I grew up and was mostly friends with non-Natives. The only Native friends I had were either related to me or the friendships were very short lived. Now I work for my tribe and am around mostly Native people. I find that a large majority of the people are interested in only things that are Native related, if it's not, they can take it or leave it. Some of them judge the rest of us on trying act or be non-Native.
The majority of my friends have been GLBT and a minority of them are mostly interested things that are only GLBT related and if it's not, they can take it or leave it. They judged the rest of us on trying to act straight or hide our GLBT-ness.
To me, both sections of people were silly because I'm just me. I like what and who I like with no apologies. If it happens to be Native or GLBT related, awesome. If not, so what? That being said a couple definitions for lifestyle is: 1. a set of attitudes, habits, or possessions associated with a particular person or group. 2. such attitudes, etc, regarded as fashionable or desirable.
So in this sense, yes I think it can be. But does someone choose to be GLBTS, no.0 -
I have been a lesbian all of my life and never been with a man. I also was not brought up in a religious household, so I don't have a lot of mental programs that are designed to guilt and shame me for being a lesbian.
With this being said, I believe that being a lesbian is a choice. A lot of people in our lifestyle say they do not have a choice, that they were "born this way." But the truth is, you could be like a lot of people and lead a straight lifestyle. Even though you would be absolutely miserable, you could still choose to be miserable.
Now when it comes to gender and race, you cannot choose. If you were born with a penis and a vagina, then that was obviously not your choice. But having a sex change operation to be a completely different sex than you were born with is a choice. Because if you take away choices, you take away freedom.
Being poor and fat is a choice. That is off the subject just a little, but tying it back in to the topic at hand - how many people do you know or who are here on this forum who thinks that being poor or fat is out of your control due to your lack of education, your family, your background, genetics, etc.
My point is, there is a difference between being "born this way" (Race, gender) where you honestly don't have a choice in the matter, and saying your choices (being gay, rich, poor, fat, fit) are in fact, not choices because you can't "help" who you are. That is a crock pot of crap. If you need to justify to yourself why you are gay because you feel ashamed of it and you can't accept that it is your choice, and if holding that belief helps you sleep better at night - then more power to you. But there is nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian.
The reason why we have consistently lost the battle to have equality for our culture of people is because our debates are based on irrational and /or emotional reasons such as arguing about if being LGBT is a choice or not. And also, when LGBT try to quote the bible and justify why their choice is acceptable to a Christian who is conservative. If we stuck to the cold, logical and hard facts - which are:
A) The government is not suppose to get involved in religious issues (Separation of church and state) therefore, constitutionally has no say in what is "right" or "wrong" when it comes to marriage in a religious sense.
LGBT pay taxes - therefore we deserve to have as many choices as our straight counter parts, regardless of a straight person's religious beliefs (see above)
C) If LGBT can't adopt children, then we don't want to pay welfare when these breeders go out here and have unwanted children that they can't afford to take care of. We are not a part of that problem, so we shouldn't have to pay for it if we don't have equal rights.
Sitting there and arguing mindlessly over if it is a lifestyle, a choice or if you are born this way is the exact reason why it has taken us so long to be seen as equal. You can't fight ignorance with the need to feel validated. Straight people don't want to validate you, because it will detract from their ego and sense of separation. The only way you can combat a person who is dead set on keeping you separate from them is to quote undisputable facts that a straight person HAS to agree upon, regardless of their religion. In fact, the more we have these irrational and emotional debates with these idiotic holy rollers, all we are going to do is spin our wheels. Also, it just makes them want to invalidate you even more because they don't agree with your emotional reasons.
Imagine if our debates looked like this:
A) I am an LGBT and it is my choice to be this way, just like in America I have religious freedom and I can choose what religion to follow, including but not limited to who I love or have sex with. I am an LGBT and I pay taxes, which gives me the right to be equal financially.
C) I am an LGBT and it is not important to me that you honor my religious ceremonies, because that is your freedom of choice. However, my legal rights under the constitution are civil union.
In other words, who gives a crap what your feelings or religious views are. Nobody cares. The fact is, we have the right based on our religious freedom in this country, separation of church and state and being tax payers.0 -
I have been a lesbian all of my life and never been with a man. I also was not brought up in a religious household, so I don't have a lot of mental programs that are designed to guilt and shame me for being a lesbian.
With this being said, I believe that being a lesbian is a choice. A lot of people in our lifestyle say they do not have a choice, that they were "born this way." But the truth is, you could be like a lot of people and lead a straight lifestyle. Even though you would be absolutely miserable, you could still choose to be miserable.
Now when it comes to gender and race, you cannot choose. If you were born with a penis and a vagina, then that was obviously not your choice. But having a sex change operation to be a completely different sex than you were born with is a choice. Because if you take away choices, you take away freedom.
Being poor and fat is a choice. That is off the subject just a little, but tying it back in to the topic at hand - how many people do you know or who are here on this forum who thinks that being poor or fat is out of your control due to your lack of education, your family, your background, genetics, etc.
My point is, there is a difference between being "born this way" (Race, gender) where you honestly don't have a choice in the matter, and saying your choices (being gay, rich, poor, fat, fit) are in fact, not choices because you can't "help" who you are. That is a crock pot of crap. If you need to justify to yourself why you are gay because you feel ashamed of it and you can't accept that it is your choice, and if holding that belief helps you sleep better at night - then more power to you. But there is nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian.
The reason why we have consistently lost the battle to have equality for our culture of people is because our debates are based on irrational and /or emotional reasons such as arguing about if being LGBT is a choice or not. And also, when LGBT try to quote the bible and justify why their choice is acceptable to a Christian who is conservative. If we stuck to the cold, logical and hard facts - which are:
A) The government is not suppose to get involved in religious issues (Separation of church and state) therefore, constitutionally has no say in what is "right" or "wrong" when it comes to marriage in a religious sense. LGBT pay taxes - therefore we deserve to have as many choices as our straight counter parts, regardless of a straight person's religious beliefs (see above)
C) If LGBT can't adopt children, then we don't want to pay welfare when these breeders go out here and have unwanted children that they can't afford to take care of. We are not a part of that problem, so we shouldn't have to pay for it if we don't have equal rights.
Sitting there and arguing mindlessly over if it is a lifestyle, a choice or if you are born this way is the exact reason why it has taken us so long to be seen as equal. You can't fight ignorance with the need to feel validated. Straight people don't want to validate you, because it will detract from their ego and sense of separation. The only way you can combat a person who is dead set on keeping you separate from them is to quote undisputable facts that a straight person HAS to agree upon, regardless of their religion. In fact, the more we have these irrational and emotional debates with these idiotic holy rollers, all we are going to do is spin our wheels. Also, it just makes them want to invalidate you even more because they don't agree with your emotional reasons.
Imagine if our debates looked like this:
A) I am an LGBT and it is my choice to be this way, just like in America I have religious freedom and I can choose what religion to follow, including but not limited to who I love or have sex with. I am an LGBT and I pay taxes, which gives me the right to be equal financially.
C) I am an LGBT and it is not important to me that you honor my religious ceremonies, because that is your freedom of choice. However, my legal rights under the constitution are civil union.
In other words, who gives a crap what your feelings or religious views are. Nobody cares. The fact is, we have the right based on our religious freedom in this country, separation of church and state and being tax payers.
Even though I agree with your main points, I strongly disagree with your assumption that sexual orientation or gender identity is a choice. It's not, and there is a lot of science to back that up. By dismissing a biological imperative to be LGBT, you are opening up questions about what could be done to choose the "right" way. Yes, we have the choice to come out and be who we are but we do not have a choice as to who we are attracted to.
For starters, here is an article from Time from a few years ago referencing a study that showed how gay men's brains look more like straight women's, and lesbian's brains look more like straight men:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html
Brain shape and the nerves that connect different hemispheres is something that you would be born with. It is not really something that you could alter by making a choice. The scientific community knows that sexual orientation is something that is decided in the womb. The question they are trying to answer now is whether it is genetic or because of a specialized mix of hormones the fetus is exposed to. There are arguments for and against on both sides there.
You could also look at at how fraternal birth order effects a man's chances of being gay. Basically each older brother increases a man's odds of being gay by 28 to 48%. This may hint toward a hormonal reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation
I could point out even more things, but I think I'll leave it at just these two for right now. The point, though, is that there is no choice. There never was a choice and there never will be a choice. The only people in the LGBT spectrum I see that might have a choice are those who are bisexual, but even they would have to repress either their same or opposite sex desires in order to "pass."
These are not beliefs people hold on to. These are direct scientific facts. I subscribe to this because it's what the empirical evidence points to. It's not because I'm ashamed of who I am, or that I'm trying to justify it, or whatever you said up there. It's because it is Truth. With a capital T Truth.0 -
I have been a lesbian all of my life ...I believe that being a lesbian is a choice.
I just want to focus on this first part of your post:
If you truly believe that you chose to be a lesbian then at what point in your life did you choose this that you can claim to have been a lesbian for your entire life?
Given that you say you've been a lesbian all of your life (as you have also been your race) is this not a trait with which you were born?
Or did you mean to say that you have not been a lesbian for your entire life and that you indeed made a conscious decision to be lesbian?Even though you would be absolutely miserable, you could still choose to be miserable.
Yes, we could choose to ignore our natural state and be miserable, and some of us do this (many end up killing themselves over this). This is not even close to being proof that we are not born with our sexual orientation.0 -
I think the idea of it being a choice is sort of a red herring. I can say being gay wasn't a choice a for me, but it's sort of misses the mark to even go there.
The real tension behind all of this is around two issues:
1. Is homosexuality an issue of identity or behavior or both? And.
2. What's wrong with it?
As far as laws go in the US, number 1 is kind of moot. SCOTUS has already ruled that homosexuality is not strictly behavior, but social conservatives still like to think it's strictly about behavior. It's bound up with the second issue of what's wrong with it. Most frequent objections to homosexuality revolve claims that sexual intercourse with someone of the same sex is sinful. Ok, that's fairly easy to dismiss through a combination of showing homosexuality as not just behavior, but also identity as well as pulling the freedom of (from) religion card. Other objections seem to try and center around Sociology (allowing homosexuality somehow strikes at the core of society's foundation). I could go into more detail there, but it suffices to say that it's a jumble of logical fallacies and an inaccurate view of human history.
All of this is just my long winded way of saying "It doesn't matter if it's a choice or not." Fine, let's call it a choice for the sake of argument. The only way of getting around calling heterosexuality a choice as well is by assuming that heterosexuality is some sort of default state, and that statement isn't that hard to refute.
EDIT: I'd also like to address this specifically.The reason why we have consistently lost the battle to have equality for our culture of people is because our debates are based on irrational and /or emotional reasons such as arguing about if being LGBT is a choice or not. And also, when LGBT try to quote the bible and justify why their choice is acceptable to a Christian who is conservative. If we stuck to the cold, logical and hard facts - which are:
Those emotional debates served a purpose. I'm sorry, but the population's understanding of what it means to be homosexual plays a role in how the debate pans out. The arguments you lay out about rights etc were true then as they are true now. Have you considered why those arguments didn't fly int he past--believe me they were tried. Appeals to emotion aren't logical, by definition, but that doesn't make them useless. We can't have an argument about how are civil rights are being violated unless we lay that ground work to convince people that we are equal.
You claim that it's about feeling validated...Umm..yeah. Duh. That's kind of the point. We can't even begin to have an argument about rights unless we're validated, which is what Lawrence v Texas did. As much as I want to see Scalia DIAF his prediction in his dissent in that ruling was spot on. I just happen to disagree with stance on whether or not it was a good thing : )0 -
My point is... why does it have to be so "horrible" if being LGBT is in fact a choice? Why are we so adamant to say we are born this way? I don't get the selling point of saying we are born gay... unless we are ashamed to admit we have a choice in the matter?
For example, last night I had a dream I purposely dropped something on the floor so my ex girlfriend would bend over to pick it up. And when she did, I veered back and kicked her as hard as I could in the face. Unfortunately, I fell asleep on my couch and ended up kicking my glass top coffee table as hard as I could and gashing my foot in real life. Although in my dream, I thought I cut my foot on her teeth.
In real life, I am the type of person who will get a jar to pick up a bug and put it outside. I've never been in a physical fight with anybody in my whole entire life. Yet, I can't stand my ex and I would love to beat her *kitten* and it brings me great joy to fantasize about it. However, I would never in a million years act on those feelings or do anything to hurt her or anybody for that matter. I literally wouldn't kill a fly.
Do I want to? Hell yes, I do. Does this automatically make me a murderer? Am I a psychopath? Am I a blood lust serial killer because when I'm angry I like to imagine kicking somebody as hard as I can in the head?
No, because I can fantasize with a stupid smile on my face all I want. Where the rubber meets the road is when I take action on my emotions.
Just like I could go and post an ad on Craigslist and screw some random man. I could make it a goal to have sex with 5... 10... or even 20 or more of them if I felt like it. Of course, I have no emotional desire to do so. But there are people who are much more attracted to the same sex in this world who consciously choose a straight lifestyle. It doesn't matter what their emotions are, they act against those emotions by physically choosing a straight lifestyle.
So, just like I am not a murderer or a violent person just because I would love to kick my ex in the head, a person is not gay or lesbian based on their emotions, unless they ACT on those emotions and consummate a same sex relationship.0 -
You claim that it's about feeling validated...Umm..yeah. Duh. That's kind of the point. We can't even begin to have an argument about rights unless we're validated, which is what Lawrence v Texas did. As much as I want to see Scalia DIAF his prediction in his dissent in that ruling was spot on. I just happen to disagree with stance on whether or not it was a good thing : )
[/quote]
Well, here is my definition of validation:
A hobo drives up in a Pinto that billows out smoke from the back and he smells like **** and throws back a bottle of whiskey. Then he looks over at me and says, "The way you are living your life is wrong."
Then I say, "But wait Mr. Hobo... let me tell you why I was born gay. I've always been in love with my girlfriend. She -"
Hobo screams, "SILENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Lifts up his leg, and farts while he pulls his arm down to get as much leverage as possible.
"But Mr. Hobo! It is very important to me that you understand where I am coming from!"
Now, as ridiculous as this story I made up sounds... that's how ridiculous validation sounds to me. By seeking validation from a hobo, I am actually invalidating myself by valuing the hobo's opinion of me in the first place.
And yes, this is exactly how I see narrow minded, rednecks who thump their bibles. A bunch of hobos.0 -
I have been a lesbian all of my life ...I believe that being a lesbian is a choice.
I just want to focus on this first part of your post:
If you truly believe that you chose to be a lesbian then at what point in your life did you choose this that you can claim to have been a lesbian for your entire life?
Given that you say you've been a lesbian all of your life (as you have also been your race) is this not a trait with which you were born?
Or did you mean to say that you have not been a lesbian for your entire life and that you indeed made a conscious decision to be lesbian?Even though you would be absolutely miserable, you could still choose to be miserable.
Yes, we could choose to ignore our natural state and be miserable, and some of us do this (many end up killing themselves over this). This is not even close to being proof that we are not born with our sexual orientation.
OK, here is what I mean to clear up some confusion: Those priests take a vow of celibacy to honor God or whatever the case may be. Let's just pretend priests actually stay celibate for a moment. They may really, really, REALLY want to have sex or be in a relationship with another person - but they abstain from sex to honor God. Is that not a choice? Are you also born celibate? And what about nuns? They don't have sex either - but does that mean they don't want to? Or do they want sex, but ignore their needs to serve a higher purpose?
I am just trying to make a perfectly clear distinction here:
We are not our hormones, thoughts or emotions. Who we are is what we CHOOSE to do. In other words, it is the thoughts and emotions we ACT ON that determines who we are.
Example: I have been so mad, I have wanted to literally kill somebody. If we go by the logic of being "born" gay... then I must also be a "born" murderer.
But there is one important step we have leaped over completely... Just because I said I wanted to kill somebody, does NOT mean I am a murderer. I can feel intense and passionate about killing somebody, but until I take action I am not a murderer.
Likewise, I can fantasize about being with a woman, watch a woman's *kitten* as I follow behind her as she is walking up the stairs, look at lesbian porn, touch myself and think of a woman, and get aroused walking through Victoria Secret... but until I grab that woman in the flesh... until I touch, feel and taste her... I am not a lesbian. It isn't until I act on my thoughts and emotions that I am officially a lesbian. I could do all those things and never touch a woman and lead the straight, white picket fence, suburban lifestyle and just get aroused thinking about women all day while what I choose to do is lead a straight lifestyle, maybe even for "Godly" reasons like the priest.
This is why I know the lifestyle is a choice, because there are too many closet queers who are leading straight lives. They've never even touched the same sex, yet they know if they did they would explode. And yet, that's exactly why they don't do it.0 -
I have been a lesbian all of my life and never been with a man. I also was not brought up in a religious household, so I don't have a lot of mental programs that are designed to guilt and shame me for being a lesbian.
With this being said, I believe that being a lesbian is a choice. A lot of people in our lifestyle say they do not have a choice, that they were "born this way." But the truth is, you could be like a lot of people and lead a straight lifestyle. Even though you would be absolutely miserable, you could still choose to be miserable.
Now when it comes to gender and race, you cannot choose. If you were born with a penis and a vagina, then that was obviously not your choice. But having a sex change operation to be a completely different sex than you were born with is a choice. Because if you take away choices, you take away freedom.
Being poor and fat is a choice. That is off the subject just a little, but tying it back in to the topic at hand - how many people do you know or who are here on this forum who thinks that being poor or fat is out of your control due to your lack of education, your family, your background, genetics, etc.
My point is, there is a difference between being "born this way" (Race, gender) where you honestly don't have a choice in the matter, and saying your choices (being gay, rich, poor, fat, fit) are in fact, not choices because you can't "help" who you are. That is a crock pot of crap. If you need to justify to yourself why you are gay because you feel ashamed of it and you can't accept that it is your choice, and if holding that belief helps you sleep better at night - then more power to you. But there is nothing wrong with being gay or lesbian.
The reason why we have consistently lost the battle to have equality for our culture of people is because our debates are based on irrational and /or emotional reasons such as arguing about if being LGBT is a choice or not. And also, when LGBT try to quote the bible and justify why their choice is acceptable to a Christian who is conservative. If we stuck to the cold, logical and hard facts - which are:
A) The government is not suppose to get involved in religious issues (Separation of church and state) therefore, constitutionally has no say in what is "right" or "wrong" when it comes to marriage in a religious sense. LGBT pay taxes - therefore we deserve to have as many choices as our straight counter parts, regardless of a straight person's religious beliefs (see above)
C) If LGBT can't adopt children, then we don't want to pay welfare when these breeders go out here and have unwanted children that they can't afford to take care of. We are not a part of that problem, so we shouldn't have to pay for it if we don't have equal rights.
Sitting there and arguing mindlessly over if it is a lifestyle, a choice or if you are born this way is the exact reason why it has taken us so long to be seen as equal. You can't fight ignorance with the need to feel validated. Straight people don't want to validate you, because it will detract from their ego and sense of separation. The only way you can combat a person who is dead set on keeping you separate from them is to quote undisputable facts that a straight person HAS to agree upon, regardless of their religion. In fact, the more we have these irrational and emotional debates with these idiotic holy rollers, all we are going to do is spin our wheels. Also, it just makes them want to invalidate you even more because they don't agree with your emotional reasons.
Imagine if our debates looked like this:
A) I am an LGBT and it is my choice to be this way, just like in America I have religious freedom and I can choose what religion to follow, including but not limited to who I love or have sex with. I am an LGBT and I pay taxes, which gives me the right to be equal financially.
C) I am an LGBT and it is not important to me that you honor my religious ceremonies, because that is your freedom of choice. However, my legal rights under the constitution are civil union.
In other words, who gives a crap what your feelings or religious views are. Nobody cares. The fact is, we have the right based on our religious freedom in this country, separation of church and state and being tax payers.
Even though I agree with your main points, I strongly disagree with your assumption that sexual orientation or gender identity is a choice. It's not, and there is a lot of science to back that up. By dismissing a biological imperative to be LGBT, you are opening up questions about what could be done to choose the "right" way. Yes, we have the choice to come out and be who we are but we do not have a choice as to who we are attracted to.
For starters, here is an article from Time from a few years ago referencing a study that showed how gay men's brains look more like straight women's, and lesbian's brains look more like straight men:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1815538,00.html
Brain shape and the nerves that connect different hemispheres is something that you would be born with. It is not really something that you could alter by making a choice. The scientific community knows that sexual orientation is something that is decided in the womb. The question they are trying to answer now is whether it is genetic or because of a specialized mix of hormones the fetus is exposed to. There are arguments for and against on both sides there.
You could also look at at how fraternal birth order effects a man's chances of being gay. Basically each older brother increases a man's odds of being gay by 28 to 48%. This may hint toward a hormonal reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternal_birth_order_and_male_sexual_orientation
I could point out even more things, but I think I'll leave it at just these two for right now. The point, though, is that there is no choice. There never was a choice and there never will be a choice. The only people in the LGBT spectrum I see that might have a choice are those who are bisexual, but even they would have to repress either their same or opposite sex desires in order to "pass."
These are not beliefs people hold on to. These are direct scientific facts. I subscribe to this because it's what the empirical evidence points to. It's not because I'm ashamed of who I am, or that I'm trying to justify it, or whatever you said up there. It's because it is Truth. With a capital T Truth.
I agree we can't always choose how we feel, and especially, who we are sexually attracted to. But we always 100% choose to act on those feelings or not. Therefore, the feelings are not a choice - but acting on the emotion IS a choice. That is the perfectly clear distinction I want to make.0 -
So, just like I am not a murderer or a violent person just because I would love to kick my ex in the head, a person is not gay or lesbian based on their emotions, unless they ACT on those emotions and consummate a same sex relationship.
It's interesting and quite disturbing that you are trying to compare our sexual orientations with committing crimes. There is a difference between choosing to commit a crime when committing crimes is not one's natural state, and 'choosing' to NOT deny one's natural state by simply dating, marrying or having casual sex with someone of the same sex. Our sexual orientation is something that is deeply engrained in us. It is something that we are born with. We are absolutely gay or lesbian based on our emotions (attractions) regardless of whether we act on this. Just because some choose to deny themselves their natural state and engage only in heterosexual relationships does not mean that person is any less gay or lesbian. It just means that something in their life or upbringing has them absolutely terrified of acting on their natural attractions (probably religion, or homophobic family).It isn't until I act on my thoughts and emotions that I am officially a lesbian.
This is simply wrong. Again, just because one denies their natural being and chooses to act against their own desires in such a way does not mean that they aren't lesbian or gay. It just means they are severely closeted. We cannot choose who we become attracted to because the parts of our brain that determine our attractions are already developed at birth. This is exactly why there is an anatomical difference between the average heterosexual male brain and the average homosexual male brain. The average heterosexual male brain looks like other heterosexual male brains. The average homosexual male brain is similar to that of a heterosexual female. These anatomical differences lead to no other conclusion than: Baby, you were born this way! The fact that you can choose to deny yourself happiness by going against your nature doesn't mean you're not born gay or lesbian. It just means that we are all born with the ability to make ourselves completely miserable.I agree we can't always choose how we feel, and especially, who we are sexually attracted to. But we always 100% choose to act on those feelings or not. Therefore, the feelings are not a choice - but acting on the emotion IS a choice. That is the perfectly clear distinction I want to make.
Feelings (natural state) = not a choice = inherent = born with it
We DO NOT choose our sexual orientation. It's something that we're born with. Can we choose to go against our own nature? Sure, and we can lead completely miserable lives. It is natural to NOT do that. It is natural to NOT choose misery when happiness simply means realising and accepting our natural attractions.
Is being gay or lesbian a lifestyle? No. These are labels for our sexual orientation.
Look at every gay and lesbian in the world and you will not see a repeating lifestyle. There may be some similarities, but not one exactly the same. We're all different in the way we live our lives. We are all the same only in that we are born with whatever part of our brains gives us our sense of attraction.0 -
I agree with the poster above me. Its natural, a part of the person that was there from the start. People may choose to act on their feelings or not. If anything being out means that in the end being happy is more important to the person then being accepted and miserable. Choosing happiness instead of misery isn't a real choice, everyone wants happiness. Are some people scared of what will happen if they choose happiness? Yes and with good reason. Its fear that keeps people in the closet wether its religion based or based on what someone would do to them. That doesn't mean they aren't gay or lesbian though. They still are even if they hide what they feel.0
-
Hello,
I don't mean any offense to anyone regarding my posts. So, we will have to agree to disagree. I just think the fact that we are tax payers is sufficient enough for us to have equal rights. We don't have to bring morals, religious convictions and personal opinions into the mix. I am just a very logical person.0 -
With regards to the "choice" debate - who you are is not a choice. If you are gay, lesbian, whatever you identify (or don't identify) yourself as, that is innate. Whether you choose to ACT based on who you are - that is a choice, and where the idea of "choosing to be miserable" comes from. I'm a lesbian. I could choose to be miserable and be only with men. But that is not me choosing to be straight. That is me choosing to not act on the fact that I am, and was born, a lesbian.0
-
Hello,
I don't mean any offense to anyone regarding my posts. So, we will have to agree to disagree. I just think the fact that we are tax payers is sufficient enough for us to have equal rights. We don't have to bring morals, religious convictions and personal opinions into the mix. I am just a very logical person.
Basing our right to equal rights on tax status is not good either. We deserve equal rights simply because it's what is just and right. We may never be able to convince the uneducated and ignorant that we are born with whatever later on in childhood/adolescence leads to our attractions, but that's okay. We're not seeking validation from the bigots. We're seeking validation (legal recognition and equal treatment under law) from the government which is obligated to comply as noncompliance is unconstitutional.
This is a USA-centered argument, but similar arguments can be made for other developed nations. You're in Oklahoma though so this argument applies.
Lastly, it doesn't seem like we disagree on the main point that our sexual orientation is a birth trait. You have said that you've been lesbian your entire life. If you believe this then you believe you were born lesbian. You've contradicted yourself several times since that statement by trying multiple times to force the idea that sexual orientation is a choice because you can choose to be miserable, but then 0332 4 July comment you seemed to imply that sexual orientation is a birth trait before again pushing the 'you can choose to be miserable' argument.
You confuse and intrigue me. You're the first out lesbian I've met who pushes the 'it's a choice' argument. I could be wrong, but based on the expressions in your arguments and also the contradictions in those arguments I believe that you either don't believe or don't wholly believe your own arguments. If I'm right I'd like to ask one question: why?0 -
Hello,
I don't mean any offense to anyone regarding my posts. So, we will have to agree to disagree. I just think the fact that we are tax payers is sufficient enough for us to have equal rights. We don't have to bring morals, religious convictions and personal opinions into the mix. I am just a very logical person.
There is no logic to the origin of rights. There are legal arguments to be made, but that's just a matter of rules mongering. All that stuff that you say we don't have to bring into the mix is everything that the rules are based on, which is why validation comes into play. And really, it's not so much about validation as it is having the same understanding of reality; the reality of what it means to be homosexual in this case.
The only thing that gives us rights are other people because they choose to follow the Constitution in a particular way. If enough people wanted to completely change the US Constitution to remove the 5th and 14th amendments because they're bigots, we'd be screwed. Nothing we could do about it. Logic doesn't do squat for us at that point. We can't hide behind the seeming safety of being logical tax payers.0 -
I don't believe it is a lifestyle. I believe that it is simply YOUR life. It doesn't dictate what you wear and listen to for music...it is just YOU plain and simple!0
-
Honestly. Who you love isn't a lifestyle.
People who do not know better or just spew a bunch of crap don't know the difference between behavior and attraction.
When people they "gay lifestyle" they mean sexually promiscuous. Which, I don't know ANY gay person who is sexually promiscuous. I seen a lot of heterosexual men and women and even quiet a few bisexual men and women who would be condemned as such, but that doesn't make all heterosexual or bisexual people sexual deviants.
Honestly, my lifestyle: eat, sleep, try not to get killed, and love everyone I see as Jesus did.
We are all human, we life a HUMAN lifestyle. We make mistakes, we try to learn from them to become a better person, that is what we all have in common.0
