Marriage...is there any hope?
fullofwhimsy
Posts: 218
Soooo...as I am getting my hair done for my sister's wedding on Saturday, my very good friend calls and tells me she and her hisband are done. He has been cheating on her for the last month. I was in their wedding last July.
He is literally the last person we would suspect of doing this. She was blindsided. There will be no reconciliation. The wedding isn't even fully paid off.
Honestly, everyone I know breaks up. Is it silly to bother getting married these days?
He is literally the last person we would suspect of doing this. She was blindsided. There will be no reconciliation. The wedding isn't even fully paid off.
Honestly, everyone I know breaks up. Is it silly to bother getting married these days?
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Definitely silly.
--P0 -
Not silly but people need to realize it isn't something it is disposabile and they actually have to work at.0
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Marriage isn't for everyone but I agree it's not silly and it takes a lot of communication and work to make it last.Not silly but people need to realize it isn't something it is disposabile and they actually have to work at.0 -
My folks have been married for 37 years. I would hope there is. Marriage requires a lot of work on both parties but it's doable.0
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Not silly at all
I was with my ex for 21 years. The loss of our relationship was neccessary but devastating for us as people and for our family, but I don't regret all the years we spent together or what we created. So therefore it was not silly to marry.
To me marriage is not the issue, it's whether it's silly to plan on being together for a lifetime. For some this will mean marriage, for others it won't.
If you went into every relationship on the basis that they may not last then that would substantially reduce the quality of the relationship and the likelihood of it lasting. It would become a self fullfilling prophecy. Realistically many/most relationships won't last forever, neither should they if they are bad ones. But I doubt those people would be any happier in the long term if they didn't hope, dream and emotionally invest themselves fully in what they wanted. And in the short term they would miss out on a lot. Life is risky, there's no way of insuring ourselves against pain and when we try to do so, our lives often become limited by our fears.
Relationships are like life, you can focus on the future and the uncertainties about what may/may not happen or you can concentrate on living it fully, right now. Of course most of us do both, but often we do too much of the former at the expense of the latter.0 -
My parents are going on 32 years, my grandparents have made it past 60. It IS possible, but it takes work. A lot of people are all about instant gratification these days and if they don't get what they want at home, they'll go looking elsewhere.
I might be single myself, but the internet has offered me a unique opportunity to talk to men and find out what makes things go bad in their own relationships... what makes them unhappy, what makes their eyes stray, etc. I hope that with this insight, I can avoid issues in my future relationships by avoiding these things.0 -
I think this boils down to simple economics. If you cohabitate you gain all the financial advantages of economies of scale (sharing purchases of housing, food, vacations, etc. so you can't really count those as benefits to marriage. The only significant advantage of marriage is the tax breaks for filing jointly. Once you estimate your tax break you need to make assumptions about the number of years you reasonably expect to be married. For every year in the future you should discount the value of that tax break by the expected rate of return you would expect to receive on investments of similar risk. The sum of the these benefits is the Net Present Value of benefits from marriage. The costs include the price of the wedding, clerk fees for the marriage license and any back end fees caused by the dissolution of the marriage. If there is a prenup that should be included too. With the exception of the costs of dissolution, all these costs occur on or before the date of marriage so there is no discounting necessary. The dissolution costs should be appropriately discounted. These figures provide an estimate of the net present value of costs.
If the net present value of benefits is greater than the net present value of costs, it is worth it. Otherwise, it is not.0 -
Marriage is not silly by any means, but it is work and both have to be committed.
Eta - I will not cohabitate with a guy before marriage (unless it was a platonic roommate), so I will have to be married before my BF or fiancé lives with me.0 -
I think this boils down to simple economics. If you cohabitate you gain all the financial advantages of economies of scale (sharing purchases of housing, food, vacations, etc. so you can't really count those as benefits to marriage. The only significant advantage of marriage is the tax breaks for filing jointly. Once you estimate your tax break you need to make assumptions about the number of years you reasonably expect to be married. For every year in the future you should discount the value of that tax break by the expected rate of return you would expect to receive on investments of similar risk. The sum of the these benefits is the Net Present Value of benefits from marriage. The costs include the price of the wedding, clerk fees for the marriage license and any back end fees caused by the dissolution of the marriage. If there is a prenup that should be included too. With the exception of the costs of dissolution, all these costs occur on or before the date of marriage so there is no discounting necessary. The dissolution costs should be appropriately discounted. These figures provide an estimate of the net present value of costs.
If the net present value of benefits is greater than the net present value of costs, it is worth it. Otherwise, it is not.
Phew- now all of my woe is me I secretly want to get married again feelings are put in perspective, AND the self pity that I didn't have a wedding or a ring the first time because we were idiot graduate students with no money is finally abated! It's simply cost volume profit analysis!
But for real, I used be a records research peon and was always reassured when working with marriage and divorce- lots more marriage.0 -
If the net present value of benefits is greater than the net present value of costs, it is worth it. Otherwise, it is not.
What are you using for your cost of capital?
--P0 -
I don't think it's silly to get married... but I do think the notion that it's suppose to be a comitment for life is. And the funny thing is people keep spending more and more money on weddings that don't seem to own up to the investment.0
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I don't think it's silly to get married.
I think that the idea of instant gratification and the need for an "instant fix" in bad times is silly. This goes for both men and women. You go through a rough patch in the marriage and instead of working it out together, you find another means to patch the problem or satisfy yourself instead of the marriage. Or, those that do try to work through problems expect the results to be overnight. Nothing good ever came in an instant. All things are better with time and patience. True intimacy will grow through going through life's problems together. But, so many think just because there's an issue, it means their marriage has failed. That's silly to me.0 -
I think marriage is silly because people rely on contracts and pieces of paper to bind them to each other on a legal level rather than focusing on the emotional connection. To me, being proposed to (or proposing) means more than a pseudo religious ceremony and government documents. A proposal is the moment you decided you want to spend the rest of your life together, and that you mutually agree you will work together to make it function. Communication, dedication, loyalty and mutual respect all mean more.
Then again, I don't even enter into relationships lightly because once I emotionally connect with someone I naturally do everything in my power to make it work.
Don't even get me started on how ridiculous I think weddings are :laugh:0 -
Don't even get me started on how ridiculous I think weddings are :laugh:
Ridiculous or...
www.whengeekswed.com0 -
I think marriage is silly because people rely on contracts and pieces of paper to bind them to each other on a legal level rather than focusing on the emotional connection. To me, being proposed to (or proposing) means more than a pseudo religious ceremony and government documents. A proposal is the moment you decided you want to spend the rest of your life together, and that you mutually agree you will work together to make it function. Communication, dedication, loyalty and mutual respect all mean more.
Then again, I don't even enter into relationships lightly because once I emotionally connect with someone I naturally do everything in my power to make it work.
Don't even get me started on how ridiculous I think weddings are :laugh:
this!
I dont believe in marriage. It's a farce for about 75% of couples. And that guess is conservative......lol0 -
Dammit Cesar.
Now I want that stuff. I'm gonna have to go broke for this *kitten*.0 -
i want cake0
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Dammit Cesar.
Now I want that stuff. I'm gonna have to go broke for this *kitten*.
Yep. I think I'm just going to select segments of the whole traditional matrimonial process and go from there. Do the engagement photos thing, and then maybe bring a 'wedding cake' to a pre-existing family dinner.0 -
No the Disney fantasy is obsolete.
The end.0 -
i want cake
Me too.... I really wish there was a bakery that sold wedding cake by the slice... but then again, my calories would be maxed out by lunch. So, probably not a good idea. 0 -
Dammit Cesar.
Now I want that stuff. I'm gonna have to go broke for this *kitten*.
Yep. I think I'm just going to select segments of the whole traditional matrimonial process and go from there. Do the engagement photos thing, and then maybe bring a 'wedding cake' to a pre-existing family dinner.
I couldn't give two sh*ts about photographs XD I figured a BBQ would be enough, I guess adding a cake to that would be cool.0 -
www.whengeekswed.com
I can't access the link from work... can anyone find one with my favorite geek proposal...
"Equivalent Exchange... I'll give half of my life to you, and you give half of yours to me!"
saw it on an episode of fullmetal alchemist and it's always stuck with me0 -
I don't think it's silly to get married... but I do think the notion that it's suppose to be a commitment for life is.
Help me understand this... what's the point of getting married if it's not a life commitment? What other value does one get out of being married? I thought the "committed for life" thing was pretty much it, and event hat doesn't require marriage in the minds of most people today.Not silly but people need to realize it isn't something it is disposable
This, to me, is the crux of the problem. People view marriage as disposable and unimportant. Thus, they aren't motivated to choose wisely (someone who is compatible**) or to nurture the relationship. They allow themselves to grow apart*** rather than consciously choose to grow together.
** Tips for choosing someone compatible: "Choosing the Right One to Marry" parts one and two: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5068a_qa.html and http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5068b_qa.html
*** According to several marriage websites I follow, one of the biggest risks of marriage is growing apart. The concept that we can CHOOSE to grow together rather than just letting life happen to cause us to grow apart. This link takes you to things you can do to prevent this: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5520_qa.html0 -
I have yet to meet people who regard their marriages as disposable or temporary.
I see people in dysfunctional relationships that need to end for the health of those people in them and the children whose parenting otherwise suffers.
I see people who are unable to cope with life resorting to any means possible to block out their emotions (drink, drugs sex) rather than dealing with the root cause (themselves) and destroying relationships in the proccess.
I see people who don't know themselves, never mind the person they just married, who have poor relationship skills and no way of improving them.
I see people scared to be vulnerable who never emotionally commit to another person (marriage or no marriage).
I see people in all the categories above overcome these problems if they have sufficient honesty and courage, usually through learning from their experiences (which will sometimes involve a series of relationships).0 -
I don't think it's silly to get married... but I do think the notion that it's suppose to be a commitment for life is.
Help me understand this... what's the point of getting married if it's not a life commitment? What other value does one get out of being married? I thought the "committed for life" thing was pretty much it, and event hat doesn't require marriage in the minds of most people today.
The commitment was the original point of getting married... I don't think it works with life/society today. For proof look at divorce rates.
So I guess the point of getting married now like many things is: It's just what people do.0 -
I don't think it's silly to get married... but I do think the notion that it's suppose to be a commitment for life is.
Help me understand this... what's the point of getting married if it's not a life commitment? What other value does one get out of being married? I thought the "committed for life" thing was pretty much it, and event hat doesn't require marriage in the minds of most people today.
The commitment was the original point of getting married... I don't think it works with life/society today. For proof look at divorce rates.
So I guess the point of getting married now like many things is: It's just what people do.
Tax benefits, get to throw a party and get gifts, be the center of attention... those seem to be the point of getting married these days.
ETA: see laughable B movie "My Fake Fiance"0 -
I understand your concern!
And honestly, I'm struggling with it myself. I broke up with boyfriend who kept mentioning getting married for the longest time (together four years) and after a while, I got tired of hearing the 'idea' and not seeing any action and compromising my views.
There were so many issues that he felt like marriage would "fix"... AKA not feeling guilty about having sex before marriage and not living together before marriage. I don't see marriage as a solution to those types of problems, though. I just varied differently with his opinions of what's right and wrong and didn't feel as "old school" as him.
This made me realize I'm not ready for marriage, and I don't know how I feel about it anymore. My thoughts of it being a glamorous, romantic ordeal have changed to looking around at friend's weddings and wondering how they are so content with getting settled down so quick.
I want more for my life and am career-focused right now. Maybe it's selfish but whatever is supposed to happen will.
Turns out he picked out a ring two days before we broke up. Talk about timing!0 -
There were so many issues that he felt like marriage would "fix"... AKA not feeling guilty about having sex before marriage and not living together before marriage. I don't see marriage as a solution to those types of problems, though.
I so agree.
There was this girl I went to college with, and she was very religious, and she got married at 19, probably just because she and her BF wanted to live together and have sex. I get waiting, that is fine, but don't rush into marriage just so you can get lucky you know? It's a bigger commitment than that. Either be comfortable with waiting, or don't wait, but don't feel uncomfortable with waiting.0 -
There were so many issues that he felt like marriage would "fix"... AKA not feeling guilty about having sex before marriage and not living together before marriage. I don't see marriage as a solution to those types of problems, though.
I so agree.
There was this girl I went to college with, and she was very religious, and she got married at 19, probably just because she and her BF wanted to live together and have sex. I get waiting, that is fine, but don't rush into marriage just so you can get lucky you know? It's a bigger commitment than that. Either be comfortable with waiting, or don't wait, but don't feel uncomfortable with waiting.
This is funny because while I was teaching at Texas A&M, there were 5 or 6 times when 18 to 20-year-old women came up to me to make sure I changed their last name on my class roster due to their recent marriage. The only reason I could think that so many would marry so young was to have sex without the guilt.0 -
There were so many issues that he felt like marriage would "fix"... AKA not feeling guilty about having sex before marriage and not living together before marriage. I don't see marriage as a solution to those types of problems, though.
I so agree.
There was this girl I went to college with, and she was very religious, and she got married at 19, probably just because she and her BF wanted to live together and have sex. I get waiting, that is fine, but don't rush into marriage just so you can get lucky you know? It's a bigger commitment than that. Either be comfortable with waiting, or don't wait, but don't feel uncomfortable with waiting.
This is funny because while I was teaching at Texas A&M, there were 5 or 6 times when 18 to 20-year-old women came up to me to make sure I changed their last name on my class roster due to their recent marriage. The only reason I could think that so many would marry so young was to have sex without the guilt.
You made me think of something, Dave... When dealing with young college students, keep in mind that one of the few ways one can get declared independent and therefore free of the financial burden of your parents income on federal aid is to get married. Two young married college students have a huge advantage when it comes to free and discounted aid to pay for their education. When I was working in the administration desk at the community college, I had more than one individual tell me they 'got hitched' so they could qualify for the pell grant.0
