God is Imaginary
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Well, your responses seem to be “catered” to support the hypothesis that God doesn’t exist. Of course we are both trying to come to a coherent and reasonable understanding of the world in which we find ourselves. I believe the hypothesis of the existence of God makes better sense of all the data. The atheist approach seems to alleviate the “problem of evil,” but really doesn’t. By denying God one also loses an objective grounds of morality. Other aspects of human experience are undermined, too (hope for eternal life/unending love and friendship).
Regarding bowing to God, I see this as simply responding to reality. If God exists, creatures like ourselves should respond with gratitude for this marvelous gift of life that we didn’t deserve but were given. Just as I think it is “natural” for someone who is given a gift to say “thank you,” so we should respond to God with the most supreme gratitude. Further, I think that contemplating the essence of God fills the heart with awe and admiration so that we want to express that. Just as a person who is in love with another “praises” them for their beauty and love, so one who loves God wishes to express that love. I do not see this as contrary to human freedom but, rather, its fulfillment. True freedom is the ability to respond to reality as it really is.
I just wanted to respond to the bolded part. Not to refute it, but just to give my side as a non-believer.
I feel the same, but instead of a God to worship I am in awe of the universe. The process of evolution that created us is AMAZING. I mean it's really brilliant and fascinating. Little changes over time creating new life forms... it's such a slow process we took forever to discover it. But now that we understand it I see so much beauty in it. Through evolution we literally know that all life on this planet is connected. We share a common origin. When you think about it that way you feel closer to your fellow man, silly notions like racism vanish. And not just humans but all animals and plant life... all share a common ancestor. That's the kind of story I'd expect to find from religion or ancient fables.. but it's all true.
And that's just our connection to other life on the planet biologically. Chemically we are a part of the universe itself. Our bodies contain iron. Iron is formed in the heart of dying stars. Billions of years ago those stars exploded and their enriched materials reached this planet, helping to create everything we call life. We are in a literal and undeniable sense.. made of star dust. I find more beauty in that fact than anything I ever learned from any religion. Thanks to Neil Degrasse Tyson for that one. If you've never heard the man look him up.
I'm saying this to refute the notion that "atheists believe in nothing." I believe in the universe we live in, in all it's glory and majesty. To call it nothing cheapens the only life we know to be real.0 -
And if you don't respond properly, you will be punished for eternity. Don't forget the threat of ever lasting suffering if you don't bow.
I came to my conclusion after analysis but I did not start from the belief that God existed and worked backward. That would be intellectually unfair to myself because I would have tainted the findings.
I’ll leave the final judgment of individual souls up to God. I am responsible, though, for my response to this great gift of existence and the countless good things I experience every day.
Regarding your “conclusion after analysis,” I don’t find your analysis compelling at all. I didn’t start with the belief in God, either. A “hypothesis” is typically defined as an “educated guess” that is then subjected to further testing to determine if it is justified. Both of us discovered ourselves in a world that did not have an “obvious” explanation (by that I mean some kind of “rule book” attached to us when we were born). The world is a mystery that invites our curiosity and questioning. Both of us develop a “hypothesis” or working framework for making sense of ourselves and our world. I find atheism an unworkable and unconvincing framework and I find Christian theism profoundly fulfilling and meaningful.
Further, since we are talking about “ultimate” questions that involve judgments or claims about all reality, we cannot step outside the whole process to “test” our claims (like what we try to do in science labs). Even the scientist assumes some starting-points that cannot be demonstrated through the scientific method (e.g., reliability of sense perception, soundness of inductive logic, regularity of nature). Those starting-points are “confirmed” by their power of explanation and coherence. Christian theism is a theory about all reality and “proves” itself in a similar way. Atheism is also a claim about the nature of reality and should be tested in its ability to explain our experience coherently and powerfully. In my view, atheism is totally unsatisfying- FOR ME. Atheism is primarily a “protest” movement to perceived inadequacies of religious beliefs but has never shown itself capable of building a meaningful civilization or compelling world-view (unless you think atheist Communism satisfies).0 -
I just wanted to respond to the bolded part. Not to refute it, but just to give my side as a non-believer.I feel the same, but instead of a God to worship I am in awe of the universe.
You are in awe of the universe, but where do you think the universe came from? How was our universe created? In discussions with scientists on the big bang theory, it's believed that something "outside" of the universe created the big bang. So, I think that "something" would be called a "creator". I choose to call that creator God.
Christianity and Catholicism are full of mysteries. There are so many things beyond our understanding as humans. I am not suggesting that it's easy to believe in God. I believe it takes logic, reasoning, reading, studying, understanding science and not just theology, etc.
Please know that I'm not saying an atheist cannot do great, moral things! I'm not saying atheists are depressed, unfullfilled people. I'm saying that's how *I* would feel without belief in God. I hope I'm getting that across because (as you know) I have wonderful friends whom I love with all my heart who are atheists.0 -
Prove that there is no hidden school for wizards and witches. Prove that there are no aliens. Prove that Zeus isn't real. You can't. You cannot disprove a negative. To ask someone to do so basically says "I have no valid proof for my POV so instead I'll try to turn the tables on you."
IF there is a God AND it's the Christian version He's a bit of an *kitten*. He's supposed to be a loving parent. I know of no one who can even remotely be considered loving who would punish their children and grandchildren and so on for all eternity because their kid once ate their cookie. That's not loving that's assholish. To say "God works in mysterious ways" is a total copout. Maybe Susan Smith was working in mysterious ways when she drowned her kids. Maybe the Boston bombers had greater plans for those people and did them a favor. Sounds pretty assinine huh? That's because it is. If we don't let falliable humans off the hook for their horrible atrocities then why should we let some supposedly infallible God off the hook for those same things. If God really wants to give that kid on fire or kid dying of cancer a better existence He could just take them. There is absolutely no point in letting them suffer if He can change that. If He can't change it then fine, I get it. God is not all powerful. If He can change it but chooses not to then He's not loving. He cannot be all powerful and all loving though so pick which one you think He is.0 -
I just wanted to respond to the bolded part. Not to refute it, but just to give my side as a non-believer.I feel the same, but instead of a God to worship I am in awe of the universe.
You are in awe of the universe, but where do you think the universe came from? How was our universe created? In discussions with scientists on the big bang theory, it's believed that something "outside" of the universe created the big bang. So, I think that "something" would be called a "creator". I choose to call that creator God.
Christianity and Catholicism are full of mysteries. There are so many things beyond our understanding as humans. I am not suggesting that it's easy to believe in God. I believe it takes logic, reasoning, reading, studying, understanding science and not just theology, etc.
Please know that I'm not saying an atheist cannot do great, moral things! I'm not saying atheists are depressed, unfullfilled people. I'm saying that's how *I* would feel without belief in God. I hope I'm getting that across because (as you know) I have wonderful friends whom I love with all my heart who are atheists.
Okay, perhaps what we know as the big bang was set off by a being. How, then, does all other scientific evidence lead to the Judeo-Christian image of a benevolent creator being who has a vested interest in our small marble on the edge of a mediocre galaxy in this giant universe?
Even if we were to accept that something/one launched the big bang, there is zero evidence to lead us to believe that this entity is active after that act. It could be like the life that spawns from a bag of sea monkeys being dropped into a stagnant pool.0 -
*tiptoes back out*
I forgot that I like people better when I'm ignorant to their beliefs on religion and politics. I shouldn't have clicked. DUMB Odus, DUMB!
You know, I think this is a really good point. It was really nice before FB and everything else that I didn't have to know what everyone thought about everything.0 -
You make it sound like god is just looking down how I would some amoebas in a peitry dish and not care if one drys out since there is a greater good in studying all the amoebas.
God is like you and me! We are made in his image. Pretty much that means we are at least a reflection of him
God is the father and mother of us all. He loves us all. If I have an infinite amount of ways to do something, it would not be though pain suffering and death. God does allow bad things to happen to people. That is my point. He could fire up a miracle every single time. He chooses not to. Or he does not choose because he is unable to.
Either he is not purely good or he is not in complete control. Only though god can we know things. I still have a big problem with god teaching me lessons though doing evil things, or allowing them to happen. I'd rather take the alternative then.
1.Your first sentence misunderstands my point. I’m arguing that God’s relationship to the creation is not identical with our own. I did not want to say that God is remote and uncaring. Rather, I was saying that God is closer than we can imagine to everything in the creation but that this closeness, magnified to infinity, makes our own relationship to those around us very different from God’s. There are similarities, I believe, but a vast difference that should make us humble and cautious in moving too far towards imagining God as just like us.
2.We are made in God’s image but God is not made in ours. The “image of God” is a way of referring to our power to “know” God. Unlike the other animals, we can relate to God by having an awareness of ourselves as creations of God, etc. This is a far cry from saying that God is to be made “ in our image.” The commandment warns against making any “graven images” of God. This is because we must always remember that God is not a creature and therefore infinitely transcends our small, weak knowledge.
3.Again, my point is that your critique of God is based on your profoundly limited and small perspective. Perhaps “firing up a miracle” every time something goes wrong is not God’s way of proceeding. You seem to think that if God exists everything God does should be a reaction to YOUR (or some individual) needs and that larger considerations are irrelevant. Sounds rather egocentric and short-sighted to me.
4.I think if you reflect on your life you will find that the “evils” you’ve experienced have taught you countless lessons, perhaps made you more compassionate, more grateful (maybe) for the health you may have right now, etc. Why not look at the good side of things and look around yourself now at an incredibly beautiful, amazing, unfolding drama in this universe? Why not see the intellect you possess, the freedom you experience, etc., as something that is truly beautiful and wonderful? Why not see the evils of this world as a lesson that this life is not all there is and that we cannot place all our hope in this changing world? Again, I think the “God” you are arguing against is a pathetically small one and bears little resemblance to the God of Christian faith, classically understood.0 -
You know, I think this is a really good point. It was really nice before FB and everything else that I didn't have to know what everyone thought about everything.
Kinda funny. You came into a thread knowing it was going to be about God, in a debate group! You don't "have to know what everyone thought" here. You came looking.0 -
Except that we do have proof of God. Some just choose to discount it.Prove that there is no hidden school for wizards and witches. Prove that there are no aliens. Prove that Zeus isn't real. You can't. You cannot disprove a negative. To ask someone to do so basically says "I have no valid proof for my POV so instead I'll try to turn the tables on you."IF there is a God AND it's the Christian version He's a bit of an *kitten*. He's supposed to be a loving parent. I know of no one who can even remotely be considered loving who would punish their children and grandchildren and so on for all eternity because their kid once ate their cookie. That's not loving that's assholish. To say "God works in mysterious ways" is a total copout. Maybe Susan Smith was working in mysterious ways when she drowned her kids. Maybe the Boston bombers had greater plans for those people and did them a favor. Sounds pretty assinine huh? That's because it is. If we don't let falliable humans off the hook for their horrible atrocities then why should we let some supposedly infallible God off the hook for those same things. If God really wants to give that kid on fire or kid dying of cancer a better existence He could just take them. There is absolutely no point in letting them suffer if He can change that. If He can't change it then fine, I get it. God is not all powerful. If He can change it but chooses not to then He's not loving. He cannot be all powerful and all loving though so pick which one you think He is.
I've already addressed this here.0 -
Except that we do have proof of God. Some just choose to discount it.
What is the proof?0 -
I just wanted to respond to the bolded part. Not to refute it, but just to give my side as a non-believer.I feel the same, but instead of a God to worship I am in awe of the universe.
You are in awe of the universe, but where do you think the universe came from? How was our universe created? In discussions with scientists on the big bang theory, it's believed that something "outside" of the universe created the big bang. So, I think that "something" would be called a "creator". I choose to call that creator God.
Christianity and Catholicism are full of mysteries. There are so many things beyond our understanding as humans. I am not suggesting that it's easy to believe in God. I believe it takes logic, reasoning, reading, studying, understanding science and not just theology, etc.
Please know that I'm not saying an atheist cannot do great, moral things! I'm not saying atheists are depressed, unfullfilled people. I'm saying that's how *I* would feel without belief in God. I hope I'm getting that across because (as you know) I have wonderful friends whom I love with all my heart who are atheists.
I hate the "something from nothing" argument. Only because it's applied unfairly. The indictment being the universe could not have always existed on it's own, it had to come from something. So that something must be God. Well where did God come from? Oh he always existed on his own.
I like reading what you personally believe. I think you believe all of it from a place of love and kindness and with much deep thought.
I personally believe morality without religion to be superior. Not meant as a jab, just saying "Be good for goodness sake." Of course atheists are moral people (for the most part). As are believers. But the difference is believers expect a reward of sorts. An eternity of bliss in exchange for their good deeds. Non-believers have no such thing, but do good works anyway. It's not a contest, but if you want to talk about "morality" I feel it's better to do good works just because you think it's the right thing to do, not because you expect a reward or feel commanded to do them.0 -
Okay, perhaps what we know as the big bang was set off by a being. How, then, does all other scientific evidence lead to the Judeo-Christian image of a benevolent creator being who has a vested interest in our small marble on the edge of a mediocre galaxy in this giant universe?
Even if we were to accept that something/one launched the big bang, there is zero evidence to lead us to believe that this entity is active after that act. It could be like the life that spawns from a bag of sea monkeys being dropped into a stagnant pool.
Nothing in the scientific evidence (or otherwise) contradicts the Judeo-Christian image of a benevolent being. To my mind, the unlikely and fragile nature of life in our universe suggest a providential God, protecting and directing our world towards the emergence of life. I find my life filled with good things so it is not such a stretch for me to believe in the overall good plan of God for our world. There are other good philosophical and theological reasons for this, too.
I think there are huge problems with deistic theories (that God makes the world and then abandons it or “dies”). As I mentioned earlier, I would argue that our existence is NEVER caused by our essence. In other words, why there is ever any dependent thing is a mystery. God causes our existence every moment like the temperature in the room causes the warmth of the water in my cup. If God were to abandon the world, the world would disappear (like if the warmth of the room left, the water would be cold). You can study material things forever and never find the reason why they exist within themselves. You always have to go beyond them. The same is true for the whole cosmic order. The whole thing is a mystery and remains a mystery. God is needed not only to explain the world to begin with but also to explain why it continues to be.0 -
Exactly. I came in here fully knowing what the topic was about. I'm choosing not to contribute, mainly because I know I personally have a hard time contributing to a constructive debate without making it personal and nasty, but I still appreciate knowing my peers viewpoints and beliefs, even if they differ from my own.You know, I think this is a really good point. It was really nice before FB and everything else that I didn't have to know what everyone thought about everything.
Kinda funny. You came into a thread knowing it was going to be about God, in a debate group! You don't "have to know what everyone thought" here. You came looking.
If you don't want to know what others believe, then don't ask or go snooping about.0 -
I personally believe morality without religion to be superior. Not meant as a jab, just saying "Be good for goodness sake." Of course atheists are moral people (for the most part). As are believers. But the difference is believers expect a reward of sorts. An eternity of bliss in exchange for their good deeds. Non-believers have no such thing, but do good works anyway. It's not a contest, but if you want to talk about "morality" I feel it's better to do good works just because you think it's the right thing to do, not because you expect a reward or feel commanded to do them.
I have never been taught that we should be good for a reward. I've never taught that to my children nor my students. The commandments are more rules of what not to do than what to do.0 -
Okay, perhaps what we know as the big bang was set off by a being. How, then, does all other scientific evidence lead to the Judeo-Christian image of a benevolent creator being who has a vested interest in our small marble on the edge of a mediocre galaxy in this giant universe?
Even if we were to accept that something/one launched the big bang, there is zero evidence to lead us to believe that this entity is active after that act. It could be like the life that spawns from a bag of sea monkeys being dropped into a stagnant pool.
Nothing in the scientific evidence (or otherwise) contradicts the Judeo-Christian image of a benevolent being. To my mind, the unlikely and fragile nature of life in our universe suggest a providential God, protecting and directing our world towards the emergence of life. I find my life filled with good things so it is not such a stretch for me to believe in the overall good plan of God for our world. There are other good philosophical and theological reasons for this, too.
I think there are huge problems with deistic theories (that God makes the world and then abandons it or “dies”). As I mentioned earlier, I would argue that our existence is NEVER caused by our essence. In other words, why there is ever any dependent thing is a mystery. God causes our existence every moment like the temperature in the room causes the warmth of the water in my cup. If God were to abandon the world, the world would disappear (like if the warmth of the room left, the water would be cold). You can study material things forever and never find the reason why they exist within themselves. You always have to go beyond them. The same is true for the whole cosmic order. The whole thing is a mystery and remains a mystery. God is needed not only to explain the world to begin with but also to explain why it continues to be.
I would argue the exact opposite. the deistic theories make much more sense (if a creator is necessary) due to the absence of god in present day life. You have said you have found your life filled with good things so it is easy for you to believe in god but what about the Somali child who has been starving their entire life? What about the people who were born into poverty in India? What about those who have been stricken with terrible diseases? You have basically set yourself up with a Jobian comparison. An absent God at least accounts for all of this suffering without falling back on the "its a great mystery that we aren't meant to understand" trope.0 -
I personally believe morality without religion to be superior. Not meant as a jab, just saying "Be good for goodness sake." Of course atheists are moral people (for the most part). As are believers. But the difference is believers expect a reward of sorts. An eternity of bliss in exchange for their good deeds. Non-believers have no such thing, but do good works anyway. It's not a contest, but if you want to talk about "morality" I feel it's better to do good works just because you think it's the right thing to do, not because you expect a reward or feel commanded to do them.
I have never been taught that we should be good for a reward. I've never taught that to my children nor my students. The commandments are more rules of what not to do than what to do.
But that's the whole set up of religous dogma, if you take a step back and simplify it. Do God's will on Earth and receive eternal life in heaven. I'm not making this up out of nowhere. That's the system set up by Catholicism/Christianity. Heaven for the good little boys and girls, Hell for the bad ones/non-believers/anyone unlucky enough to believe differently/people who talk in the theater.
And you don't even want to get me started on the Ten Commandments. Those are a great example of why I don't think people should believe in God. If THOSE are the ten absolute most important things for human beings to know about life and morality we have real problems.0 -
I hate the "something from nothing" argument. Only because it's applied unfairly. The indictment being the universe could not have always existed on it's own, it had to come from something. So that something must be God. Well where did God come from? Oh he always existed on his own.
I mentioned before that God did not come "from nothing." God is self-existent. I think we both have to affirm that something is self-existent (unless you want to say that something can come from nothing). I just think that there is no good reason to think that the universe is that which has always existed.0 -
I hate the "something from nothing" argument. Only because it's applied unfairly. The indictment being the universe could not have always existed on it's own, it had to come from something. So that something must be God. Well where did God come from? Oh he always existed on his own.
I mentioned before that God did not come "from nothing." God is self-existent. I think we both have to affirm that something is self-existent (unless you want to say that something can come from nothing). I just think that there is no good reason to think that the universe is that which has always existed.
Self-existent is the same as what I said. Why is it logical to think that God always existed but the universe did not?
Now if Big Bang Theory is true that means the universe as we know it did have a beginning. But I've heard plenty of theories about multiple universes existing almost as if soap bubbles, theories of a universe that continually expands and contracts upon itself, etc. etc. Different ways of theorizing that the universe, in way, always existed or is self-regenerating.
Saying, "No. It's not possible for the universe to always exist on it's own." while believing in a creator who has always existed on his own is just double talk to me.
If the universe always existed.. well to borrow a phrase I know you won't like.. it cuts out the middle man. Like this: "The universe had to come from somewhere, God created it. Where did God come from? God always existed." Ok, the universe always existed. Simpler and more logical answer."
Plus I'm not completely sold that something can't come from nothing. There's a whole lot of life on this planet that wasn't here before. Yes the materials were here, but even scientists still haven't been able to recreate what it was that gave that first one celled organism "life". When people choose to see God's hand in that, well I certainly don't fault them. (I fault them when they think God poofed one dude and one woman into existence in some garden with talking snakes).0 -
But that's the whole set up of religous dogma, if you take a step back and simplify it. Do God's will on Earth and receive eternal life in heaven. I'm not making this up out of nowhere. That's the system set up by Catholicism/Christianity. Heaven for the good little boys and girls, Hell for the bad ones/non-believers/anyone unlucky enough to believe differently/people who talk in the theater.
And you don't even want to get me started on the Ten Commandments. Those are a great example of why I don't think people should believe in God. If THOSE are the ten absolute most important things for human beings to know about life and morality we have real problems.
That's a very elementary understanding of Christian morality. Mature Christian morality seeks to do good not primarily for reward but, rather, because we delight in doing what is truly fulfilling and "good." We ground our understanding of what is "good" is the supreme "Good," God.
Consider it similar to a child doing what he's supposed to only because there's punishment or reward. Eventually, the child grows in maturity and wants to do the right thing just to show love and respect to his parents. Then when that child is in his own, without parents to punish him, his morality matures.0 -
Except that we do have proof of God. Some just choose to discount it.
What is the proof?
Apparently "There's no proof there isn't" = proof there is. In that case though there is a Bigfoot and a secret school for witches and wizards. Afterall, there's no proof there isn't.0 -
Now if Big Bang Theory is true that means the universe as we know it did have a beginning. But I've heard plenty of theories about multiple universes existing almost as if soap bubbles, theories of a universe that continually expands and contracts upon itself, etc. etc. Different ways of theorizing that the universe, in way, always existed or is self-regenerating.
All those theories are ways of pushing off the real question. The reality of motion pushes us to some mover, so explaining the motion of our universe by another universe doesn’t answer the original question, it only pushes it off to another universe.0 -
Apparently "There's no proof there isn't" = proof there is. In that case though there is a Bigfoot and a secret school for witches and wizards. Afterall, there's no proof there isn't.
Maybe that's "apparent" to you, but not what I believe.0 -
Now if Big Bang Theory is true that means the universe as we know it did have a beginning. But I've heard plenty of theories about multiple universes existing almost as if soap bubbles, theories of a universe that continually expands and contracts upon itself, etc. etc. Different ways of theorizing that the universe, in way, always existed or is self-regenerating.
All those theories are ways of pushing off the real question. The reality of motion pushes us to some mover, so explaining the motion of our universe by another universe doesn’t answer the original question, it only pushes it off to another universe.
So, since there is currently not a working theory of how the universe originated, you are willing to accept that it was due to a benevolent and all powerful entity that has a plan for every soul on this particular planet. Isn't that a bit of a leap in logic considering the lack of evidence to support this?
The theory of a constantly expanding and contracting universe is much more believable and understandable than some other entity outside of this reality micromanaging existence.0 -
Science has not yet been able to prove the total absence of Intelligent Design so there is no proof a god does not exist either.
Ah Intelligent Design...
Here's how you handle that.
Do you believe that aliens could have seeded Earth with the necessary components for life to arise on our planet? Because that would be intelligent design.
If you just believe God created everything then say you're a religious person who believe in the creation story from the Bible and stop hiding behind pseudo-scientific terminology.
@MudRunLvr.... loving everything you've posted. Perfect. Perfect responses. Cheers!0 -
Not a big leap considering all the other evidence I have for the existence of God.So, since there is currently not a working theory of how the universe originated, you are willing to accept that it was due to a benevolent and all powerful entity that has a plan for every soul on this particular planet. Isn't that a bit of a leap in logic considering the lack of evidence to support this?0 -
For alpha2omega:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye
We'll never know with 100% certainty exactly how it happened because we weren't there to observe it, but we can make reasonable hypotheses based on available evidence. Evolution is probably the most well studied and well supported scientific theories we have. Saying "oh yeah? well evolution can't explain X!" is a common creationist argument.
We believe in the theory of evolution because time and time again, it's supported by actual data. On the other hand, there is no evidence for intelligent design and no reason to adopt it as model to explain life as we know it. Intelligent design is NOT a scientific theory, and is itself fundamentally unscientific.0 -
Not a big leap considering all the other evidence I have for the existence of God.So, since there is currently not a working theory of how the universe originated, you are willing to accept that it was due to a benevolent and all powerful entity that has a plan for every soul on this particular planet. Isn't that a bit of a leap in logic considering the lack of evidence to support this?
Such as?0 -
You have no evidence for the existence of a God. No one does. That's why it's called "faith".
Not a big leap considering all the other evidence I have for the existence of God.So, since there is currently not a working theory of how the universe originated, you are willing to accept that it was due to a benevolent and all powerful entity that has a plan for every soul on this particular planet. Isn't that a bit of a leap in logic considering the lack of evidence to support this?0 -
I believe people inherently know what it right from wrong. What hurts others and what does not. Religion or god does not dictate that. If it did there wouldn't be pastors stealing from churches and priests molesting children with other priests covering it up.I was catholic. And when I started asking hard questions and following the path of logic it led me to where I am now. I can be a moral, good person without believing in the extraneous tidbits.
I'm a cradle Catholic and when I started asking hard questions and following the path of logic, it confirmed everything I'd ever been taught.
How do you define "moral" and "good"? In what do you ground your belief of good and bad?
The bible certainly doesn't teach you right from wrong.... otherwise let the stonings, incest and justified murders begin!
You know you sound an awful like like someone that used to post here previously. If you aren't her then man you guys would make THE best of friends.0 -
I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe what Jesus taught us when he walked the earth. I believe he was crucified, died, and rose again. I believe the stories passed down generation to generation going back to the eyewitnesses to Jesus' life. Those who followed him and those who didn't. I wasn't alive during the Civil War, but I believe what was written and the stories passed down. So, I have faith in both events in history.You have no evidence for the existence of a God. No one does. That's why it's called "faith".0
