What constitutes a 'fail' on deadlifts?
kirabob
Posts: 481 Member
On Monday I pulled 1 x5 with 195 pounds on my deadlifts, but had to take a 25-30 second breather between my 3rd and 4th pulls. Otherwise I only stopped long enough to switch my grip and refocus. But if I hadn't taken that breather, I would probably have fainted, because I was seeing spots after the third rep, LOL. The pulling itself, while difficult, was not beyond what I could do, and my grip held just fine. I was able to do all of the reps slow and controlled.
What I'm wondering, does that 30 second break constitute a fail? Should I read it as an indicator to stay at 195 instead of going up to 205? Or is this a normal response to the deadlifts at this weight, and should I just take it in stride? I am not at a weight in any of my other lifts where I need a break mid-set like this. Regardless, I figured I would try to maybe just take 10-15 seconds or so between each rep to help regulate my breathing. . .
Any and all advice greatly appreciated!
What I'm wondering, does that 30 second break constitute a fail? Should I read it as an indicator to stay at 195 instead of going up to 205? Or is this a normal response to the deadlifts at this weight, and should I just take it in stride? I am not at a weight in any of my other lifts where I need a break mid-set like this. Regardless, I figured I would try to maybe just take 10-15 seconds or so between each rep to help regulate my breathing. . .
Any and all advice greatly appreciated!
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whoa whoa whoa if taking a break in between deadlifts is a fail, then i've been failing since dling ~100lbs.
i always take a break in between each pull. sometimes a minute, sometimes less. i also become dizzy/nauseous if i pull them too fast.
my answer? no, i don't think taking a rest is failing!0 -
See, I would say it is failing, but I that's not based on very much other than the programme is 1x5, not 5x1. Maybe Tameko can clear it up?0
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Ha, I usually consider it a fail, but not a fail to cause a deload (I'll usually try to repeat). I guess I more consider it a "soft fail" because most of the women here agree with ahviendha. I'm not sure about the correct answer. I've had to deload due to long breaks, but I usually repeat or deload because of rounding of my back. When I have to rest in between, I consider how long it gets, and kind of wing it to determine if I think I can still go up next time or not.
So, basically, I have no f'ing clue. :laugh:0 -
I sometimes take a 10 to 15 second break before pulls 4 and 5. And I often take the same break before the 4th and 5th rep with squats. Please tell me I haven't been "failing" at these weights the whole time!!!0
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I would consider a "fail" not being able to complete the rep. A 30-60 second break between reps would start over a new "set" in my world. I maybe reset for 5 seconds if even that, then onto the next rep then finish the set, rest 2 minutes (if heavy DLs) then on to the next set.
Just my $.02...0 -
I would not consider that a fail!! You took a breather and completed the set. I only consider it a fail if you cant lift it or lift it with bad form:) Great freakin job on that weight! I just deadlifted 120lbs yesterday and felt like a badazz now I feel like a wimp;)0
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I personally wouldn't consider it a 'fail' , but if it were me....I'd not go onto more weight next time. I only really rest 5-7 seconds in between reps. I would consider 30 seconds or more a separate set.0
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If that's a fail, then everyone I saw deadlifting at the power lifting meet last weekend failed their lifts ...
You're fine. Take a break if you need it. I take short break between all my dead lifts, and always have. That way I keep good form and reset the weights properly, as well as make sure my setup is good.
I count every rep with classic deadlifts as their own "set", so basically I do 5 sets of 1 rep per set (i.e. 5x1, rather than 1x5, if that makes any sense to you).
If you ever deadlift competitively it's all about the 1RM anyway. So I wouldn't worry about it, honestly.0 -
Hmmmm. I guess I'll see how I'm feeling in the morning. The weird thing about it is that it is mostly a cardiovascular issue - not a muscular or formal problem, kwim? Maybe I"ll try repeating the weight with 10-15 seconds between each pull, and try not to take that longer break? Knowing me, I'll make the call at the moment of truth. . .but it's interesting to see how many different perspectives there are on the issue.0
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I guess there's a scale from "time to reset" to "time to start a new set" and the question is where one becomes the other.
Training with singles is a valid approach, so it's not like it's going to be harming you. It may mean you're pulling closer to your 1RM than 5RM, but unless you compete, the numbers don't really matter beyond "are you progressing"?0 -
So glad I found your post, OP. :flowerforyou: I came on here to ask this very same question.
I could lift 190lbs twice without much of a break, but I needed about 30-90 sec between the other 3. It did occur to me to use a mixed grip on the last 3 reps--after I was finished, of course. Not sure how much it would have helped, though.
Would it be failing to change up your grip in the middle of a set?
I'm going to go ahead and stay at 190 for my next workout. I figure it can't hurt. No matter how much I want that 200.
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I switch my grip for every rep, actually. Doesn't take long, just a couple of seconds, and guarantees that I'm not favoring one side.
I posted in the chat forum - I decided today that **technically** it was a fail, because breathing is just one more aspect of lifting. So I deloaded to 185, set up a timer so that I could get an idea of how long it takes me to reset the bar and switch my grip, and pulled all 5 with no breaks. It was still hard, but I felt better about my breath control, and the overall technical execution of the lift. YMMV, of course.0 -
Thank you for the response, Kirabob. It's nice to hear from people dealing with the same problem as me.
Do you do both overhand and mixed grip in the same set? Up to this point, I've only used an overhand grip on deadlifts. I thought I would try a mixed grip next time to see if I don't have to rest in between. If I do, I'll deload and try, try again. Week 7 has been my week for "failing" anyway. OHP 70, bench 95, and now deadlifts. Thank goodness my squats are still on track or my workouts would be an hour and a half long with all the resting...
I like the timer idea. I'm going to do that.
I agree with you on the breathing. Always working to perfect that Valsalva maneuver. I get in sort of a Zen state when I'm squatting and deadlifting these days. And I really wasn't feeling that the last time I lifted because I was distracted. I hadn't considered that might have something to do with it, but it likely did. Something to think about.
Thanks again
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I switched to only mixed grip around 175 pounds or so. I switch my hands on each pull so that each one works evenly (more or less).
And it's like you are my twin - I failed OHP at 70 3x, and am back down to 60, and failed 95 benches twice, but then nailed them.
The breathing is super important, not just for the oxygen but for your core work - I need to remember that, too! 0 -
I tried the mixed grip switching today and that worked pretty wonderfully, actually. I have to make sure to deadlift with my lower body, rather than pull and yank and risk back injury, so switched mixed grips work like a charm for that. Thanks for the tip!0
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If it was me, I would count it as a "fail" because I'm trying to do a set of 5. Today I repeated my previous weights because I paused too long between reps last time. This time I only paused to check my positioning, so I'll move up in weight next time. I don't really like the word "fail" here, because it's not about failing but about finding the correct weight to do that particular task. I could lift a higher weight for 5x1 than I could for 1x5, but I believe it would be the wrong percentage of my 1RM for what I'm trying to do. I'd be doing something different! (I don't know how important this is though, and whether it might be just as beneficial to be doing 5x1 with a slightly higher weight).
I like to have a little rest after the set though and then add some weight just for one rep, because that's fun!
I know what you're saying about it being a different kind of failure if it's due to dizziness, but if it was me, I would still count as a fail simply because I would feel that I hadn't done the preparation to increase weight the next time, if you know what I mean. (I'd be worried about seeing stars too. I often feel dizzy but don't see stars).0 -
Hmm this is tricky because the word fail is negative.....BUT taking rests or pauses between reps is pretty much failure, it means you cannot do the next rep without a rest or loss of form, etc. The rests usually come between sets, not reps, a few seconds between reps, yes, not any more than that...if you are feeling dizzy, are you breathing correctly and not holding your breath? I do know that bending exercises are suggested to be used with caution for those with blood pressure problems (high and low or just low I cannot recall which now).0
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I would count it as fail. For deadlifts taking 4-5 sec break to take a deep breath and switch grip is ok, but 1 minute is starting a new set. If the breathing was the only thing stopping me from uping my lifts I would consider switching to 1x3 or 2x3 or whatever you think would help with the breathing issue.0
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I did treat it as a fail, or rather an indicator that I need to back off and work to get back to where I can pull it with only enough break to switch my grip.0
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According to Rip if you keep your hands on the bar in between all the reps, it's one set, even if you take extra time between reps. I can't see anyone hanging out down there for a full minute, though. If you take your hands off the bar and you have to reset each time, it's multiple sets. However, I know some pretty advanced lifters that re-set for each pull on a heavy set, just to be sure their back is set, and they don't worry about whether it's a set of 5 or 5 singles. For me, if I'm doing singles, they are heavy enough that I need about five minutes of recovery in between each single. So you just have to decide whether you want to add weight or not. I tend to err on the side of adding weight - except that you are pulling pretty frequently, so it won't set you back for too long if you just take one more session at the same weight.
As far as a fail is concerned, it would get a red light if you hitch the bar in most feds, or if you don't get to the point where your knees and hips are fully extended before putting it down. Or if you fail to control the bar on the way down, although you are certainly allowed to put it down quite quickly. You just don't get to throw it down.0 -
You just don't get to throw it down.
they should tell the bros in my gym this lol!0 -
I switched to only mixed grip around 175 pounds or so. I switch my hands on each pull so that each one works evenly (more or less).
And it's like you are my twin - I failed OHP at 70 3x, and am back down to 60, and failed 95 benches twice, but then nailed them.
The breathing is super important, not just for the oxygen but for your core work - I need to remember that, too!
We are twins, huh? I hope I nail that 95lb bench soon. Can you believe I only failed the very last rep? Yeesh. Aggravating.
I tried a mixed grip on my DL yesterday and was fine until I went to switch my hands around. I'm starting to think this is a mind block rather than a lack of strength.
I have one more shot at it until I have to deload.
Thanks for the tips :flowerforyou:0
