Do we make it harder than it is?
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Carl, just read the other ladies' opinions. Apparently I'm doing things all wrong anyway... LOL.. they say no flirting. I would be lost and clueless if a man didn't flirt with me. I would totally think he had no interest in me whatsoever and then some other man would come along and flirt with me, and I would sense interest, so I would move on. (P.S. If a man isn't going to flirt, he needs to be blunt with me. Hey, woman. I like you. Let's get to know each other.) LOL :flowerforyou:
But just for the record, in my opinion, touch can be a sign of being flirty. A man does not have to use his words to flirt. Heck, sometimes he can just use his eyes without talking or touching.
OH, and remember... I said he was ALLOWED to flirt later on... not that it was necessarily required!!! As long as he lets me know aomehow that he's interested... and I'm interested in him... then, it's all gravy, baby!
It does raise a larger point though in that what is "right" for you is not for others.
That is fair enough but where the whole notion that ladies should be passive in the early stages of a possible relationship is terribly flawed.
Treating you as I have been led to believe ladies want to be leads you to think I was not interested.
Treating another as you would like will get me called a jerk.
Nothing wrong with either and nothing inferior about both wishes but as I stated to begin with ladies are just really complicated in these things.
I am not necessarily passive but I'm not necessarily aggressive either. Yes, I usually do tend to let the man make the first move as far as calling or asking me out. But I do my fair share of letting him know I'm interested, and if need be, will initiate the kiss. One guy waited just way too long for me. I wanted to kiss him. So I did. LOL Afterwards, I wished I hadn't... but that's a different story. When I'm interested in someone, I generally let it be known. Okay... maybe after he has shown some sort of interest in me... but I'm not totally passive. Let's just say I am great at giving hints and opening the windows of opportunity for a man.
Yes, we women are complicated. I'm sorry. I don't think there will ever be one concrete answer to anything about either sex. Because not all men are created equally either.
My advice, Carl: Just be yourself. Who are you? What kind of lady are you looking for? Are you looking for a lady who is going to think of you as a jerk for friendly flirting? Then don't flirt. Are you looking for a lady who is okay with a little flirting? Then, flirt. Figure out what you want. Be who you are. You're not going to please everyone. If you can't figure out the difference between being a pervert and friendly flirting, then you should stay away from the flirting at least until you figure it out. LOL
Love you, friend!!!0 -
I can't recall any relationship starting up with this kind of flirty conversations. Maybe it's the men you date? I know a man is interested in me because he holds my hand or guides me through a doorway with his hand in the small of my back. To me, the indicators are touch - not some fine balance of getting in some safe flirting without coming across as creepy. Looking for a guy to say the right things does sound a lot like making this harder than they need to be, in my opinion.
For what it's worth, with a guy I really like and feel that click, I will probably spend more time getting ready and worrying about how I look more so than for some guy I've never met before probably for a good while in the dating process until I'm secure in an exclusive relationship. It seems I'm the complete opposite (to muddy the waters for all the men). I guess I meet so few men that I really connect with, it makes me feel more nervous and pressured to put my best self forward for quite a while so I don't blow it. I don't mean not being myself at all, but more getting to know him a little more first before really letting my guard down and showing my figurative warts.
I agree about not having experienced an actual relationship that starts with heavy overt flirting. Those situations tend to go nowhere with me. They're fun, but are in some ways ultimately not sustainable. Again, I agree that touch is a good indicator, and would add that little favors are, too. My ex husband cleaned out my refrigerator for me when we were studying abroad, and I knew....
My general experience is that things with the potential for "real" are based in reality- touching, favors, talking about things other than imaginary sex, and these things tend to be easier for me to maintain long-term.
While I can't say that I haven't experienced a relationship that started with heavy overt flirting, I do not see how the examples I gave were heavy overt flirting.
A little fun friendly flirting just lets me know of his initial interest and that he finds me desirable. That's all, people. I'm not trying to build a relationship on imaginary sex. Although I don't think it's wrong to discuss sex in the beginning of getting to know one another.. how else do you find out if you will be compatible or not. For instance, maybe I want to wait, but he goes by the third date rule. We aren't a match. Or maybe he has some kind of weird fettish that totally grosses me out. We're not a match. I'm not saying that we should cyber and then get married.
However, I agree that a relationship should be built on more than sex, more than flirting... My ex got my attention by coming to my aid when I was sick, by coming over to help me out when my lights went out, by helping me hang shelves and a clock in my classroom. His actions showed me that he cared. Did he flirt with me before that, though? Yea, he did.0 -
My advice, Carl: Just be yourself. Who are you? What kind of lady are you looking for? Are you looking for a lady who is going to think of you as a jerk for friendly flirting? Then don't flirt. Are you looking for a lady who is okay with a little flirting? Then, flirt. Figure out what you want. Be who you are. You're not going to please everyone. If you can't figure out the difference between being a pervert and friendly flirting, then you should stay away from the flirting at least until you figure it out. LOL
Love you, friend!!!
The problem arises in that no lady is wearing a sign or handing out an instruction book as to what they want.
Believe me,many many women do want to engage in intimate,sexual fantasies,there is nothing strange or wrong about that.
My basic point is still that women need to be very proactive about what they desire and not trying to test a guy out over it.
That is unfair.0 -
I think both sexes are to blame to a certain extent. However, ever girl I know reads Cosmo (and all other related magazines) and their articles tend to very game centric, i.e. how many days should I wait to contact him? take this quiz and find out if you should contact him immediately, yada yada yada.
It makes for an entertaining read, but extremely crappy dating advice.0 -
My advice, Carl: Just be yourself. Who are you? What kind of lady are you looking for? Are you looking for a lady who is going to think of you as a jerk for friendly flirting? Then don't flirt. Are you looking for a lady who is okay with a little flirting? Then, flirt. Figure out what you want. Be who you are. You're not going to please everyone. If you can't figure out the difference between being a pervert and friendly flirting, then you should stay away from the flirting at least until you figure it out. LOL
Love you, friend!!!
The problem arises in that no lady is wearing a sign or handing out an instruction book as to what they want.
Believe me,many many women do want to engage in intimate,sexual fantasies,there is nothing strange or wrong about that.
My basic point is still that women need to be very proactive about what they desire and not trying to test a guy out over it.
That is unfair.
Can I ask you a question? How is it a test? Do you see what I've said as a test?
I don't know. Maybe it's all a test. Do men test women? If a man throws a flirty comment out there, is that a test? Is he testing her to see if she'll take the bait? Is he testing her to see what her reaction will be? Or is he just flirting? Just because I do not welcome pictures of a man's special treasure on the first contact but yet am okay with some flirting later on does not mean that I am testing men. It just means that I'm not the type of woman who is going to run and jump in bed (figuratively or literally) with a man especially before I even know his name. Which may mean that he and I will not be compatible.
I don't have a checklist in front of me, marking off items on a list when I talk to a man. But what I've learned is that I'm not compatible with every man. It's not a test. It's me being honest with myself about who I am and what I want.
This is in part what I'm saying. WE all do tend to make it diffiicult. Honestly, Carl, I think you are making it more difficult than it is. Maybe it's the encounters you've had with women? I don't know.
Let me ask you this. What do you want us to do? Wear signs on our foreheads?
I don't want to be a confusing woman that comes across as handing out applications and accepting resume's and doing interviews... lol... I just like talking to men, getting to know them... I can usually tell within a few conversations if I think we would be any sort of match, though.0 -
My advice, Carl: Just be yourself. Who are you? What kind of lady are you looking for? Are you looking for a lady who is going to think of you as a jerk for friendly flirting? Then don't flirt. Are you looking for a lady who is okay with a little flirting? Then, flirt. Figure out what you want. Be who you are. You're not going to please everyone. If you can't figure out the difference between being a pervert and friendly flirting, then you should stay away from the flirting at least until you figure it out. LOL
Love you, friend!!!
The problem arises in that no lady is wearing a sign or handing out an instruction book as to what they want.
Believe me,many many women do want to engage in intimate,sexual fantasies,there is nothing strange or wrong about that.
My basic point is still that women need to be very proactive about what they desire and not trying to test a guy out over it.
That is unfair.
Can I ask you a question? How is it a test? Do you see what I've said as a test?
I don't know. Maybe it's all a test. Do men test women? If a man throws a flirty comment out there, is that a test? Is he testing her to see if she'll take the bait? Is he testing her to see what her reaction will be? Or is he just flirting? Just because I do not welcome pictures of a man's special treasure on the first contact but yet am okay with some flirting later on does not mean that I am testing men. It just means that I'm not the type of woman who is going to run and jump in bed (figuratively or literally) with a man especially before I even know his name. Which may mean that he and I will not be compatible.
I don't have a checklist in front of me, marking off items on a list when I talk to a man. But what I've learned is that I'm not compatible with every man. It's not a test. It's me being honest with myself about who I am and what I want.
This is in part what I'm saying. WE all do tend to make it diffiicult. Honestly, Carl, I think you are making it more difficult than it is. Maybe it's the encounters you've had with women? I don't know.
Let me ask you this. What do you want us to do? Wear signs on our foreheads?
I don't want to be a confusing woman that comes across as handing out applications and accepting resume's and doing interviews... lol... I just like talking to men, getting to know them... I can usually tell within a few conversations if I think we would be any sort of match, though.
I guess to clarify that when I say test it is not in a probing,exploring context but a decided pass or fail one.
Of course this is a generalization but my personal feelings and what I observe here is that guys are much more open to a wide range of responses from a lady towards us.
In contrast many women are looking for exact things to stir the feelings they want and failing to do that gives no second chance,miss it and you are done...hit it and move on even if as a guy you are a complete jerk.0 -
Yes, we do.
When things feel right, there's a great flow to all interactions. No complexities, no nonsense.
Exactly. When two people who like each other, you will know because both will text each other alot.0 -
There is a difference between guidelines/rules of dating and "be yourself".
I think guidelines/rules of dating are useful to frame normal interactions. For example, I might naturally be drawn to express my feelings by texting a girl a 5-pages message every day, but more often than not, the girl is likely to find this creepy since this is not a norm and ultimately might actually make life more complicated.
I guess for all these things of which I don't care about that much, it's useful to know what is expected from your average girl so that my actions don't look too off the chart.
Similarly, outside of the scope of dating, most people you meet expect you to say "Hello", "Please" and "Goodbye", and not doing as recommended by society would gimp you. That's a norm, and knowing that norm helps you to have pleasant and proper interactions with people.
Also, it feels natural to me to say "Hello", "Please" and "Goodbye", I feel like I'm being myself when I do this. Similarly, I've more or less integrated the rules of dating and it feels natural acting with this frame now.
There is a difference with being yourself, which basically implies: behave how you want for these things you care about.
If sending a 5-pages text message was really a big deal to me, then I'd want to find a girl who accepts this, so that I can be myself, as I'd feel like I'm giving up on a part of me if I had to give up on that.0
