grains, bread, meat... primal alternatives? Help out a noob?
CupcakeHarpy
Posts: 100 Member
I'm still reading the Primal Blueprint. I find that I follow a lot of the food guidelines already, so I'm partially convinced to begin with. But I need some insight.
I love bread and anything bready. I've been able to kind of cut down on bread (at least switched to whole wheat and vegan sprouted grain breads) and still eat rice; but now I'm thinking of trying to cut those out, too. (Not going to give up starchy veg like carrots or potatoes) But a lot of meals just don't feel complete to me without them :frown: Do you have any creative alternatives for things like pizza crust or sandwich bread? How do you eat sushi without the rice? (er... I guess that would be sashimi lol... But I eat veggie sushi, too) I want to be healthier, but it's such a drastic change for me that I would like to feel like I'm not missing out.
Also, I try to limit meat. There's nothing wrong with meat, but a good percentage of the time I don't eat it. But I do eat eggs and milk and things derived from milk. Since the plan seems so meat heavy, do you think I'd get enough nutrients just with some eggs, milk, and toss in a weekly steak or salmon? Because that would work for me.
Thanks
I love bread and anything bready. I've been able to kind of cut down on bread (at least switched to whole wheat and vegan sprouted grain breads) and still eat rice; but now I'm thinking of trying to cut those out, too. (Not going to give up starchy veg like carrots or potatoes) But a lot of meals just don't feel complete to me without them :frown: Do you have any creative alternatives for things like pizza crust or sandwich bread? How do you eat sushi without the rice? (er... I guess that would be sashimi lol... But I eat veggie sushi, too) I want to be healthier, but it's such a drastic change for me that I would like to feel like I'm not missing out.
Also, I try to limit meat. There's nothing wrong with meat, but a good percentage of the time I don't eat it. But I do eat eggs and milk and things derived from milk. Since the plan seems so meat heavy, do you think I'd get enough nutrients just with some eggs, milk, and toss in a weekly steak or salmon? Because that would work for me.
Thanks
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Replies
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I still eat white rice occassionally, primal has nothing against white rice on occassion (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-asian-paradox-how-can-asians-eat-so-much-rice-and-not-gain-weight/#axzz24TsIxJtb).
For things like chilli or bologense sauce I either eat them with just veggies like green beans, curly kale, spinach. Some people do things like spaghetti squash "noodles" for pasta sauce.
Pizza - I rarely eat since going primal, I get round it by using a paleo pizza crust that uses coconut flour + eggs + coconut milk. You could do meatza (http://www.jagsfitnessblog.com/2012/08/02/meatza/ - I don't think Justagirl will mind me plugging this).
It is possible to make almond bread or coconut bread I guess to replace grain based bread.
A quick recipe for 2 minute coconut bread
2 eggs
2 teaspoons coconut flour (approximately)
2 tablespoons melted butter or coconut oil (I used half and half)
1/2 teaspoon baking powder
Mix all together in a ramekin or small glass Pyrex type dish (wipe with coconut oil first) Mixture will be somewhat thin... a bit thinner than pancake batter.
Microwave on high for 90 seconds or so. It will sort of puff up, but go back down when you take it out.
Let cool, then run a knife around edges and flip out of container... slice through the middle.0 -
It's hard , but I think its something you have to adjust too. I just finished reading "It Starts With Food" and they recommend not 'paleo-fying old favorites like breads, pizza, pasta ect. in order to really break our reliance on these types of food and stop the cravings. And while I've made meatza a couple of times, I don't think its a replacement for pizza, but its freakin' delicious!
I eat a lot of cauliflower mash, and cauliflower rice as side dishes now when I need something more bland to go with a dish. I will make 3 veggie sides now as opposed to having a starch side and one veggie side.0 -
thanks for the suggestions :bigsmile: this is a great place to start. so things like coconut flours and almond flours are ok. I thought they'd be frowned on just because it's still really processed. I think I still have more reading to do before I understand completely.
@tsavisky: I totally get the idea of not trying to recreate old favorites. Part of the reason I've been able to stick with my plan so far really has to do with changing the way I see food. I need to see the meal for what it is... either giving me health and vitality or taking it from me. But currently it's still hard. Improving, though.
@Spooky: I will have to give that link a read. I know that japan, china, and the east in general eat about 80% of their diet from rice (depending on exact geography) but they don't have a problem keeping trim. I always attribute it to a general difference in lifestyle and diet. They eat mostly rice, then veg or tropical fruit if they can get it, and rarely do they get their hands on meat (especially mainland china). Western food is making it's way over there, but it's still not what it is here. KFC is really popular in china, but they don't just serve chicken. They have a huge menu with congee, soup, and other decent choices. They also are more active and food in general is expensive. (My boyfriend is from china and tells me tales of foreign living :smooched: I heart him)0 -
Richard Nokoley from Free the Animal came up with an interesting almond bread recipe called "fat bread". I have yet to try it, but he has been using it to make sandwiches. It very high in fat and therefore had a lot of calories, so you'll have to watch that if you want to lean out. Here is the link:
http://freetheanimal.com/2012/07/fat-bread-third-times-the-charm-mission-accomplished.html
I like this website...they come up lots of paleo substitutions for common things
http://fastpaleo.com/category/all-recipes/
Part of the fun of being paleo/primal is all the experimentation! Have fun!0 -
When I first started, I thought there was no way I'd totally give up bread, oatmeal, etc. But honestly, the longer you do it, the less you want it. I don't crave it anymore and when it's around I don't wish I could eat it. I just don't miss it anymore! Not sure this helps you right now, but know that if you stick with it, it won't seem so hard:) 0
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Like beckkotsch, when I first started, I only gave up wheat at first. I thought "there's no way I'll ever give up my oatmeal and my tortilla chips"! But, once I got over the wheat cravings, the other cravings for oatmeal and other non-wheat grain items kind of went with it. I think you might find that once you give up wheat (which will be the hardest, no lies!), that other things will naturally go with it. I do know what you mean about bread during meals, though. I used to think that the bread is what helped "fill me up" at meals, and that if I ate a meal without bread, I would still be starving afterwards. I found that to not be true, and when I dropped the bread and added another serving of veggies, I actually get MORE FULL at meals. I still occassionally make "Paleo-fied" bread products, such as almond flour pancakes and coconut flour muffins, but that, too has lessened the more I eat Primal/Paleo, the less I want those.
Best of luck to you!0 -
thanks a lot, guys! I have been cutting down on bread lately. Cutting out at least wheat would be a good thing to do. I'll check out these sites. Also, I searched for a pizza crust alternative and found one that uses shredded potatoes instead. And it looked sooooo gooood.
You are awesome :drinker:0 -
Like beckkotsch, when I first started, I only gave up wheat at first. I thought "there's no way I'll ever give up my oatmeal and my tortilla chips"! But, once I got over the wheat cravings, the other cravings for oatmeal and other non-wheat grain items kind of went with it. I think you might find that once you give up wheat (which will be the hardest, no lies!), that other things will naturally go with it. I do know what you mean about bread during meals, though. I used to think that the bread is what helped "fill me up" at meals, and that if I ate a meal without bread, I would still be starving afterwards. I found that to not be true, and when I dropped the bread and added another serving of veggies, I actually get MORE FULL at meals. I still occassionally make "Paleo-fied" bread products, such as almond flour pancakes and coconut flour muffins, but that, too has lessened the more I eat Primal/Paleo, the less I want those.
Best of luck to you!
oooh I used to be a demon with bread. I've improved a lot but when my parents would make homemade spaghetti sauce, I'd just stand there with long rolls dipping it in and eating it. And thanksgiving... really I only care about those little dinner rolls and I'd eat them all if I could ahha. I'm bad :devil:0 -
I am a sucker for the green bean cassorole at thanksgiving! But really once you get used to it it won't be as appetizing to have bread anymore, it will just seem boring, I was the same way about bread but since trying to cut back I feel different about it!0
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Seriously, I could sit and eat an entire sourdough loaf by myself previously.... Now I don't even want it. As time goes on, it's easier to not even think of grains and rice, etc.
Oh, and THIS makes it super easy to get over pizza: http://thefreerangehuman.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/ketogenic-pizza/0 -
I am a sucker for the green bean cassorole at thanksgiving! But really once you get used to it it won't be as appetizing to have bread anymore, it will just seem boring, I was the same way about bread but since trying to cut back I feel different about it!
My uncle always makes homemade green bean casserole and I KNOW I can make it primal/paleo. He makes his own cream of mushroom soup from scratch, and fries up some super thin julliened onions, so yum! Never liked the stuff until I had his. I figure if I use something else to thicken the soup like arrowroot instead of flour, and don't flour the onions before frying... It'll probably be pretty easy to pull off. I'll let you know when I have it perfected 0 -
I am a sucker for the green bean cassorole at thanksgiving! But really once you get used to it it won't be as appetizing to have bread anymore, it will just seem boring, I was the same way about bread but since trying to cut back I feel different about it!
My uncle always makes homemade green bean casserole and I KNOW I can make it primal/paleo. He makes his own cream of mushroom soup from scratch, and fries up some super thin julliened onions, so yum! Never liked the stuff until I had his. I figure if I use something else to thicken the soup like arrowroot instead of flour, and don't flour the onions before frying... It'll probably be pretty easy to pull off. I'll let you know when I have it perfected
Thats sounds awesome, and even better with paleo effects!! YUMMY!!0 -
Seriously, I could sit and eat an entire sourdough loaf by myself previously.... Now I don't even want it. As time goes on, it's easier to not even think of grains and rice, etc.
Oh, and THIS makes it super easy to get over pizza: http://thefreerangehuman.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/ketogenic-pizza/
OMG!!! Something my husband will love!!! Yay!! I am making this asap!0 -
Seriously, I could sit and eat an entire sourdough loaf by myself previously.... Now I don't even want it. As time goes on, it's easier to not even think of grains and rice, etc.
Oh, and THIS makes it super easy to get over pizza: http://thefreerangehuman.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/ketogenic-pizza/
OMG... that pizza is sick crazy. I can eat maybe one piece of bacon and I'm over it... I think I'm scarred by the idea of that pizza.0 -
@Sweetx - I'll have to remember arrow root and to look up more ways to replace flour.... It's amazing how we get stuck in our ruts and think that there's no other way to get the same effect. Thanx
@Caribougal - I feel the same way. I love bacon. But that much bacon with all the usual pizza toppings is overwhelming haha. I'll keep it in mind, though.0 -
A lot of sandwiches are a lot easier to "paleo-ify" than you think - simply replace the bread with lettuce. This is especially the case for things like hamburgers, tuna or deli meat sandwiches, or anything else that can already have lettuce on them. A lot of restaurants can also be pretty easily talked into doing lettuce buns (though, admittedly, to varying degrees of success; for example Red Robin is fantastic at it, O'Charley's....not so much). Just doing that is a good start for cutting out bread, I've found.
As for bread in general, I saw a post in a Paleo thread somewhere about missing bread. The poster realized that they weren't actually missing bread, but missing a vehicle for butter. It might help to take a good hard look at what you really like about having bread and go from there.
Also, don't forget to increase your fat intake. Low carb + moderate protein + low fat is pretty much a recipe for failure (as it's possible in the strictest sense, but not really sustainable). The higher levels of protein and fat will help you feel fuller faster and for longer, and you'll likely find that bread simply isn't needed anymore.
For Primal, rice is generally regarded as okay in moderation, especially if you're more active. (See his post here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-rice-unhealthy/#axzz24bBAkCC2 and while I'm at it, for those wondering about Asians and rice, here's Mark's take: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-asian-paradox-how-can-asians-eat-so-much-rice-and-not-gain-weight/#axzz24bBAkCC2 ).
As for your meat question - if there's nothing wrong with meat, then why try to limit it? Meat and eggs are your main protein source, you should be eating enough to reach your protein needs (which, depending on how active you are should be .5-1g per pound of lean body mass). If you don't meet your protein needs, then you'll be depriving your body of the protein it needs to maintain and repair muscle (because protein also gets used for fuel). That said, as long as you're meeting your protein goals, you shouldn't have to worry about other meat-related nutrients, because you should be getting enough, and what you may be lacking can often be made up for in other foods (spinach is high in iron, for example).0 -
A lot of sandwiches are a lot easier to "paleo-ify" than you think - simply replace the bread with lettuce. This is especially the case for things like hamburgers, tuna or deli meat sandwiches, or anything else that can already have lettuce on them. A lot of restaurants can also be pretty easily talked into doing lettuce buns (though, admittedly, to varying degrees of success; for example Red Robin is fantastic at it, O'Charley's....not so much). Just doing that is a good start for cutting out bread, I've found.
As for bread in general, I saw a post in a Paleo thread somewhere about missing bread. The poster realized that they weren't actually missing bread, but missing a vehicle for butter. It might help to take a good hard look at what you really like about having bread and go from there.
Also, don't forget to increase your fat intake. Low carb + moderate protein + low fat is pretty much a recipe for failure (as it's possible in the strictest sense, but not really sustainable). The higher levels of protein and fat will help you feel fuller faster and for longer, and you'll likely find that bread simply isn't needed anymore.
For Primal, rice is generally regarded as okay in moderation, especially if you're more active. (See his post here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-rice-unhealthy/#axzz24bBAkCC2 and while I'm at it, for those wondering about Asians and rice, here's Mark's take: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-asian-paradox-how-can-asians-eat-so-much-rice-and-not-gain-weight/#axzz24bBAkCC2 ).
As for your meat question - if there's nothing wrong with meat, then why try to limit it? Meat and eggs are your main protein source, you should be eating enough to reach your protein needs (which, depending on how active you are should be .5-1g per pound of lean body mass). If you don't meet your protein needs, then you'll be depriving your body of the protein it needs to maintain and repair muscle (because protein also gets used for fuel). That said, as long as you're meeting your protein goals, you shouldn't have to worry about other meat-related nutrients, because you should be getting enough, and what you may be lacking can often be made up for in other foods (spinach is high in iron, for example).
Thanks for the advice. I did read that article about asians. I'm actually not afraid of fats. I use coconut oil in cooking/baking and olive oil when used raw on salads (I go for the virgin expeller pressed unrefined stuff as much as possible.) I also allow nuts and nut butters, dairy with whole fats, coconut milk veggie curries, etc. I happily eat egg yolks. But I do currently eat things like tofu and other sources of protein (I was sad to read mark's take on tofu, since I do like it. But edamame is a-ok so that makes me happy haha). I'm going to try the whole primal thing soon... I just finished reading the book, and I'm assembling a meal plan for the 1st week of september. That will be when I really can give it the old college try. Right now I have things in my kitchen that I want out of here, but I don't like to throw things away. I tossed some things like oil based butters and I'll get rid of half of the processed frozen foods, but I will finish things like the sprouted grain bread and tofu. I'll have an empty kitchen by the end of next week. By doing a lot of googling I've found primal versions of lots of things that look so good. I'm really eager to try them. This thread gave me a lot of direction. Thanks to all :drinker:0 -
You can go in hardcore or you can adapt it to your lifestyle. If I was to follow everything to the letter my Blue Diamond Almond or Coconut milks would be considered processed (I've seen people advocate using the canned stuff). I strive to purchase unprocessed at all times but i I'm not going to beat myself up if it follows the bulk of rules. I do think you have to understand the underlying benefits of the Primal/Paleo lifestyle before you commence. If you're not really prepared to eliminate things from your diet then it might not be the lifestyle for you. I still eat starchy vegetables but not frequently. I also prepare my meals in 'Zone' portions (this is another nutrition plan that cross fitters use and it prevents me from overeating). The idea is to minimize carbs so reducing your intake of the starchiest vegetables in encouraged however there is no rule for this. There are plenty of things you can sub but again, you can't rely on those items otherwise you won't be gaining anything from the dietary switch. I only indulges myself in the nut flours (coconut flour can be made simply from raw ingredients) every few weeks. Again, this is how I adapt it.0
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