Opinion - does gym cardio improve sparring stamina?
salxtai
Posts: 341 Member
Reason I'm asking this is that I feel like my "cardio fitness" has improved (less muscle fatigue etc) on the standard gym equipment (eliptical / bike) doing high-intensity intervals, but I'm still dying during sparring sessions.
My reasoning is that gym cardio doesn't really replicate the effort intensity you put into a sparring match - especially since you're using arms / legs / significant core muscles at a much more aggressive and faster pace.
Its a sort of "interval"-type workout, but with significantly more plyometric bursts of energy and intensity changes, often involving both upper and lower body simultaneously.
Any one else notice this?
Or has any general comments/suggestions, especially how to improve sparring fitness outside sparirng sessions?
My instructor told me to start running for sparring fitness but I have old injuries in both my knees including an ACL graft +/- missing PCL (ACL graft screws distort MRI so can only assess with physiotherapy clinical tests, which do test positive), so I rather avoid high impact where I can to delay OA.
(train taekwondo in case that has any bearing).
My reasoning is that gym cardio doesn't really replicate the effort intensity you put into a sparring match - especially since you're using arms / legs / significant core muscles at a much more aggressive and faster pace.
Its a sort of "interval"-type workout, but with significantly more plyometric bursts of energy and intensity changes, often involving both upper and lower body simultaneously.
Any one else notice this?
Or has any general comments/suggestions, especially how to improve sparring fitness outside sparirng sessions?
My instructor told me to start running for sparring fitness but I have old injuries in both my knees including an ACL graft +/- missing PCL (ACL graft screws distort MRI so can only assess with physiotherapy clinical tests, which do test positive), so I rather avoid high impact where I can to delay OA.
(train taekwondo in case that has any bearing).
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The only cardio I've done that approaches sparring is High Intensity Interval Training and bag work, and they're still not quite the same. I've come to the conclusion that to increase sparring stamina is to keep sparring.0
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The only cardio I've done that approaches sparring is High Intensity Interval Training and bag work, and they're still not quite the same. I've come to the conclusion that to increase sparring stamina is to keep sparring.
^^^ this
The best way to improve your sparring is just to spar. But of course, sometimes that's just not possible. So alternatives include other cardio workouts, specifically using intervals (or sprints) to get in some high intensity cardio. Also, circuit training, which would give you high intensity strength and cardio.
The elliptical is pretty low-impact, but have you considered swimming? Easy on the knees and great cardio.0 -
If you don't have a partner you could also shadow box, Bruce Lee did this quite often.0
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I also believe there is some sort of psychological reaction when sparring that fatigues you faster, like you can go well the first two minutes because of the adrenaline rush, but as soon as that wears off you fatigue so much faster for the next rounds... or something along those lines. I think there's some science to it. The need to not get hit, has got to add some stress that is on a higher level than basic cardio which has no stress associated with it. IE, regular cardio is a stress reliever, whereas sparring, or the fear/possibility of getting injured in general is a taxing and stressful situation...0
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I did steady state cardio for a long time without improvement in my sparring. It wasn't until I started doing HIIT that I saw dramatic improvement in my sparring stamina. I was actually able to help with testing where I was part of three on one sparring for several rounds and I did better than the younger people who were doing it with me! I couldn't have done it before HIIT.0
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I tried to start doing a bit of HIIT-type training, although the bike / eliptical at the gym are terrible for it, so its not true HIIT. Definitely improved my resistance, but hasn't had any effect for me in sparring so far - then again, modified version could easily be the reson for that.
Oh and swimming and me are no go - I have low BP normally (100-110/60-70) and for some reason swimming sends me into an even more hypotensive state.
Have tried eating light meals, heavy meals, more water etc before swiming but still having the same effect. I gave up after about 2 weeks of swimming almost daily and finding myself close to passing out when I was getting out of the pool.
The reason is a mystery.0 -
I've found that jumping rope, running stairs, and doing running intervals at a 15 % incline has drastically increased my sparring stamina.
Heavy Bag intervals are also great. Going three to five minutes hard on a bag or sparring partner, with a minute of rest for five to ten intervals will surely rev up your stamina.
Also, as cliche as it may sound, practice really does make perfect.
The more you spar, the more conditioned you will become.0 -
Have to agree with everyone who's said "more sparring" and if not possible "HIIT" training.
Also have to agree with beckyinma that the adrenaline and psychological stress of real sparring really burns through your stamina e.g. nervous energy is a killer in a real cage match.
so yea, in the gym try and hit HIIT type training - I try to keep a regular (5x1min intervals with 10s break) x 3 (1min break between the 3 sets) cardio routine after my weights, keep intensity high for each minute on.0 -
It can't hurt your sparring stamina but I don't think it will do much if your sparring with someone who keeps a faster pace. It depends on the amount of contact. If you spar full contact getting hit will wear you down more but if it's just light contact it doesn't accumulate. When I was doing traditional jiu jitsu, my sensei used to set up 5 or 6 "stations" that's what he called them I don't know the proper word for it. Each would be a different exercise and we would have to go 1 minute as hard as we can then 30 seconds to get to the next station till we rotated through them all twice. It improved my over all endurance.0
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As per my Shihan. There is no training that can replace actual sparring. However, I cardio train all the time and I find that my recover time has dropped to almost nothing! So, during any type of combat sparring, I do gas out by the end of 2 min and 3 min sessions are murder. But, after a 30 sec rest between rounds, I have a remarkable bounce back. (Compared to the way I was a year ago!).
This works for about 5 rounds before I start to lag and lower my guard way too much!0 -
I find running on the treadmill at 10mph for 15 min straight helps for me. I'll usually practice some parries, head movement, stiff arms, and jabs during the course of the run. Visualization is key!
This is great to do when your at a hotel with no access to a heavy bag.0 -
I feel it does improve sparring staminia. When I don't keep up with cardio I find that I don't last too long when sparring.0
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I also believe there is some sort of psychological reaction when sparring that fatigues you faster, like you can go well the first two minutes because of the adrenaline rush, but as soon as that wears off you fatigue so much faster for the next rounds... or something along those lines. I think there's some science to it. The need to not get hit, has got to add some stress that is on a higher level than basic cardio which has no stress associated with it. IE, regular cardio is a stress reliever, whereas sparring, or the fear/possibility of getting injured in general is a taxing and stressful situation...
^^^ Truth. I also realized I stop breathing sometimes when I spar, and holding your breathe tires you faster. Calm down and practice good breathing. It also helps you focus on your next move. It helps tons0 -
I've found that jumping rope, running stairs, and doing running intervals at a 15 % incline has drastically increased my sparring stamina.
Heavy Bag intervals are also great. Going three to five minutes hard on a bag or sparring partner, with a minute of rest for five to ten intervals will surely rev up your stamina.
Also, as cliche as it may sound, practice really does make perfect.
The more you spar, the more conditioned you will become.
^ Pretty much what I was going to say. The above plus invest in a punching bag (either with its own base or hanging) and work on foot work while going at the bag hard. Try jumping rope, jogging / running, HIIT. Alternate the activities so that you're doing a different exercise each time (to prevents boredom).
In my experience, punching bags are really awkward at first but I got used to it eventually. By foot work, I mean kicking, bobbing / weaving (moving in and out at the bag, ducking imagined punches), and trying to get your feet to move together in general.
Whatever you choose to do may not match the actual experience of sparring, but it will be a lot better than nothing.
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I modified my weight lifting programs to have days where I rest only 60 seconds between sets to keep my heart rate from dropping back down to a rest-like state. I found this had a dramatic effect on my sparring stamina - even my coach mentioned it without me saying anything.
I also incorporated things like drop sets (normal reps of a weight til fatigue, then immediately move to a lighter weight and go to fatigue, and again with a lighter), which I believe has helped with endurance.
Not a very scientific description, I know, just my experience. Good luck everyone!0 -
Interval training on the treadmill. For example: 1 min warm up, 1 min jog, 1 min fast paced run 80 to 90% of your max back to 1 min jog and repeat this cycle of jog run ( can be fast walk instead of jog.). Whatever fits your conditioning level. Could be 1min jog and 30 sec fast pace run. Shoot for 10 min sessions.
Hopefully your knees will be ok with the change in impact in the cycle. If not, you can do similar training on the bike. Really your conditioning the body to move between areobic and anaerobic states is the goal. It WILL improve your sparring. Also you might be holding your breath during sparring, not uncommon, you might not realize it. Ask a gym mate to call out periodically to relax and breath. Focus on staying relaxed, ie loose shoulders not tense ones, and breathing. In thru the nose and out thru the mouth. Good luck.0 -
I have not found anything that equals sparring!
That being said, my Shihan puts us through some HIIT style routines every few classes that are insane! I am certain that these help with improving cardio.0 -
Reason I'm asking this is that I feel like my "cardio fitness" has improved (less muscle fatigue etc) on the standard gym equipment (eliptical / bike) doing high-intensity intervals, but I'm still dying during sparring sessions.
My reasoning is that gym cardio doesn't really replicate the effort intensity you put into a sparring match - especially since you're using arms / legs / significant core muscles at a much more aggressive and faster pace.
Its a sort of "interval"-type workout, but with significantly more plyometric bursts of energy and intensity changes, often involving both upper and lower body simultaneously.
Any one else notice this?
Or has any general comments/suggestions, especially how to improve sparring fitness outside sparirng sessions?
My instructor told me to start running for sparring fitness but I have old injuries in both my knees including an ACL graft +/- missing PCL (ACL graft screws distort MRI so can only assess with physiotherapy clinical tests, which do test positive), so I rather avoid high impact where I can to delay OA.
(train taekwondo in case that has any bearing).
Maybe the fatigue is cause by changes in breathing considering any sparring i have done increase my inability to maintain my proper breathing technique. Taoist Longevity Breathing might help you keep a positive rhythm so that any endurance training you use will show in your sparring . You may also notice an improvement in your perception and ability to react to your sparring partner.0 -
I tried to start doing a bit of HIIT-type training, although the bike / eliptical at the gym are terrible for it, so its not true HIIT. Definitely improved my resistance, but hasn't had any effect for me in sparring so far - then again, modified version could easily be the reson for that.
Oh and swimming and me are no go - I have low BP normally (100-110/60-70) and for some reason swimming sends me into an even more hypotensive state.
Have tried eating light meals, heavy meals, more water etc before swiming but still having the same effect. I gave up after about 2 weeks of swimming almost daily and finding myself close to passing out when I was getting out of the pool.
The reason is a mystery.
on my other post I mentioned Longevity Breathing and I have a low BP last test was 95/52 and I did an EKG while running in place and they said my heart remained normal increase but returned to a low number. said its a swimmer's heart. it could be you are not getting proper circulation for your respiratory system. Do you meditate in conjunction with your martial arts? If you are only learning tae Kwon do I am doubting you are0 -
Have to agree with everyone who's said "more sparring" and if not possible "HIIT" training.
Also have to agree with beckyinma that the adrenaline and psychological stress of real sparring really burns through your stamina e.g. nervous energy is a killer in a real cage match.
so yea, in the gym try and hit HIIT type training - I try to keep a regular (5x1min intervals with 10s break) x 3 (1min break between the 3 sets) cardio routine after my weights, keep intensity high for each minute on.
Nervous energy is created from a lack of breathing properly. A trick during sparring that may help is to count your breathes while you react and act on your partner. +0 -
^^ all of the above plus wearing gum shield during cardio really helps too^^Have to agree with everyone who's said "more sparring" and if not possible "HIIT" training.
Also have to agree with beckyinma that the adrenaline and psychological stress of real sparring really burns through your stamina e.g. nervous energy is a killer in a real cage match.
so yea, in the gym try and hit HIIT type training - I try to keep a regular (5x1min intervals with 10s break) x 3 (1min break between the 3 sets) cardio routine after my weights, keep intensity high for each minute on.
Nervous energy is created from a lack of breathing properly. A trick during sparring that may help is to count your breathes while you react and act on your partner. +0 -
Hi, all opinions these opinons are great, running, jumping the rope, rounds on the heavy bag and I'm going to add burpees.
Of course the more you spar the better but is not only the physical part, experience is a more important part because you get less tense and start to know when you need to move, when to use more streght and breath.
You can see experience fighters than can spar more rounds than beginners even if the experience fighter became more lazy and don't work out as much as the beginners.
Good luck and be patient0 -
absolutley agree, the best training for fighting is fighting but if you cant spar/fight pick something that really makes you taste your lungs and vary the intervals .
J0 -
I was an endurance runner for about 15 yrs and wondered why my running buddy (a boxer who never runs) kicked my *kitten* running. I stopped running, took up boxing, and I'm a much faster better runner now from boxing than I ever was from running 50 miles a week. Now I don't really run that much though, I'd rather go to the boxing gym.0
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The key is to relax.
When we spar at my school, or during testing, I like to spar each student one on one. While it makes for a lengthy test day, it does allow me to adequate see where my students are in their fighting skills.
That said, I am not an endurance runner, or anything like that. I just 'learned' to relax and how to breath. After 25 years of doing it you get into a rhythm and it becomes second nature.
However, in my kickboxing days. Sprinting and long runs did tons for my cardio.0 -
Disclaimer: I'm no expert. I'm very new to the sport. It's just that this is what I am taught constantly and it seems to work well. I'm only posting to help reinforce the things I'm learning myself.
I love how this topic switched from "work harder", to "breathe better and relax". My trainer and coaches all stress the breath and relaxing. Focus on keeping your shoulders low, which is their relaxed state. When you strike, push out all of your air, which will cause you to completely replace your stale air with fresh air which will improve your breath. If your trainer is not teaching you to make the "Tsh" sound with your breath, get a new trainer.
And, when you're sparring, you don't have to barrage the person - watch and wait for the opening and go in for the strike or perform a proper setup which doesn't usually include a bunch of full-force hits. My trainer refers to the "shiny object" which means hitting without the intention of full force, but merely with intention to distract your opponent so you can set up your next move. Fight smart, not hard.
Good luck to you.
Roni0 -
The key is to relax.
I just 'learned' to relax and how to breath. After 25 years of doing it you get into a rhythm and it becomes second nature.
This!!
The key is controling your breathing and just relaxing. Your cardio is probably fine...its your breathing that is lacking. People when sparring tend to hold their breath alot because they are so focused on fighting....when you do that, your body trys to compensate by breathing faster, then you hold your breath more...and before you know it you feel winded. You aren't really exhausted, your body is just confused and unable to get enough oxygen. That is why you can wait 10 minutes...and go again.0 -
In the past few months I have increased my training/sparring time and I have had a significant increase in my stamina/endurance. We have always done conditioning drills (sprints, all out timed kicking drills with minimal recovery time etc) and while that gave me some improvement over a long period of time it really has been the sparring that has made the difference for me.
I also agree with the breathing..learning to focus and try to control it a little better sure helps.0
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