When to cut?
pidgy
Posts: 20 Member
Looking at starting another strength training/lean body mass building phase to push past my plateau that I've been at for about a year now...how long would you suggest heavy lifting to bulk before cutting for fat loss? Or is this type of training program garbage?
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Good question... I've often wondered how to determine the length of a bulk or cut phase should be.
Following along...0 -
Oh,I wanted to add also, I am a woman--not sure if gender matters for the length/type of program for bulking/cutting?Looking at starting another strength training/lean body mass building phase to push past my plateau that I've been at for about a year now...how long would you suggest heavy lifting to bulk before cutting for fat loss? Or is this type of training program garbage?0 -
Looking at starting another strength training/lean body mass building phase to push past my plateau that I've been at for about a year now...how long would you suggest heavy lifting to bulk before cutting for fat loss? Or is this type of training program garbage?
First thing first... if I'm reading you correctly, you're stating that you only do strength training when you're bulking. Is that accurate?0 -
Good question... I've often wondered how to determine the length of a bulk or cut phase should be.
Following along...
You're not going to find any concrete answers. It's going to depend entirely on the individual and how comfortable they are at either end of the spectrum - lean vs. fat. When I used to go through cut and bulk cycles, I'd time my cuts so I was at my leanest for summer. I'd peak for certain vacations and such, but I could never maintain those peaks of leanness simply because it wasn't comfortable. It took too much effort that it wasn't worth my time or the hit on fun and quality of life.
Then on the other end of the spectrum, during the winter months I'd spend my time bulking up. I'd bulk up to about 15% body fat, but that's definitely not a hard fast rule. In truth, 15% is where I started to feel too soft and heavy for my liking.
I've found that everyone has their own tolerances. These tolerances have a lot to do with physiology and psychology.0 -
Oh, whoops! I should clarify a bit more--I do strength training year round (along with minimal 30 min or so cardio sessions) 5-6 times a week with a pattern of lower weight/more reps for a few weeks, and then the lifting-to-fatigue pyramid increasing weight as I go for about a week, then back to my lower weight/more reps...... but for bulking I switch it up to heavier weights/less reps to push muscle growth for about 4 weeks at a time....just not sure I'm doing things "right" or "long enough"...I know everyone is different, but I thought you might have some general guidelines?0
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Oh, whoops! I should clarify a bit more--I do strength training year round (along with minimal 30 min or so cardio sessions) 5-6 times a week with a pattern of lower weight/more reps for a few weeks, and then the lifting-to-fatigue pyramid increasing weight as I go for about a week, then back to my lower weight/more reps...... but for bulking I switch it up to heavier weights/less reps to push muscle growth for about 4 weeks at a time....just not sure I'm doing things "right" or "long enough"...I know everyone is different, but I thought you might have some general guidelines?
The "what's long enough" question is something I've wondered about too. I've had people on this site (people who I generally think know what they are talking about) tell me that 6 weeks isn't really long enough to accomplish much during a bulk. I can see their point, but by the same token, any gains are good gains, so...
As a triathlete, my summers are almost exclusively cardio. Once my race season is over, I get back in the gym and do bulk/cuts cycles through the winter and into the spring. The timing of them is based largely on convenience/scheduling but also my ability to fit into my clothes - my bulk stops when I can't button my pants any longer, regardless of "time".
My plan for this winter is as follows:
First, goals...
1) Let's not kid ourselves... vanity/ego is a big part of this, so let's get it out of the way right now - I want to look good, plain and simple.
2) I still want to hit 165lbs @ 10% BF. I doubt that will be my final goal, and I feel like I've gotten pretty close this summer (haven't been tested since spring), but I need to hit that mark as a starting point.
3) I want to see "significant" gains in my lifts. Since I won't have body composition numbers on a regular basis for motivation or as a progress indicator, I need to see my lifts increase. Not sure what's reasonable/realistic in this arena, but I'm hoping I can add 20-50lbs on each of my lifts (I'm thinking I can gain more in squats than I can in weighted pullups, but who knows)
4) At some point I should probably get back into Yoga or some other flexibility-based routine, but I'm going to ignore that for right now.
Now the plan moving forward...
Mid Aug - End of Sept (~6 weeks):
Short bulk cycle. In the past I've put on weight fairly quickly, so I want to keep the first cycle short. Plus, the timing of things works better this way.
- 2500ish cals daily (obviously high protein)
- Limited cardio
- Heavy lifting focusing on compound lifts. Ideally I'd break them down into A and B workouts, but I'm not sure if that'll be too much... have to play it by ear, but that's my starting point. Workout A (Mon/Thurs) - squats, bench, Weighted pull-ups, standing upright rows. Workout B (Tues/Fri) - deads, shoulder press, t-bar rows, weighted dips
Oct 1 - Mid Nov (~6 weeks):
Short cut cycle leading into the holidays. I know how to cut, just have to do it. I doubt I'd be able to bulk straight through and still fit in my clothes, so this is more of a quick shed in preparation for the holiday bulk than anything else.
- 1850ish cals daily (high protein)
- Cardio as I want
- Will keep lifting, though will probably go to 2-3 workouts per week (Mon/Fri or Mon/Wed/Fri), still focused on compound lifts: squats, bench, weighted pull-ups, upright rows, weighted dips, deads.
Mid Nov - Mid Feb (~12 weeks):
Full on bulk cycle. Same as previous bulk, just longer duration:
Mid Feb - May 1 (~10 weeks):
Cut to get ready for summer and traithlon/race season. Similar to previous cut cycle, though will be somewhat dependent on where I'm at at this point.0 -
Oh, whoops! I should clarify a bit more--I do strength training year round (along with minimal 30 min or so cardio sessions) 5-6 times a week with a pattern of lower weight/more reps for a few weeks, and then the lifting-to-fatigue pyramid increasing weight as I go for about a week, then back to my lower weight/more reps...... but for bulking I switch it up to heavier weights/less reps to push muscle growth for about 4 weeks at a time....just not sure I'm doing things "right" or "long enough"...I know everyone is different, but I thought you might have some general guidelines?
First things first... I'm not sure a 'bulking routine' is what's in order to push pass your plateau. Plateaus are almost always induced by diet.
That said, what you just said here seems a bit off. From the sounds of it, you drop most of your weight training down to high rep light weight when dieting/cutting. However, that's a time where your body needs more of a stimulus to hold onto the good stuff more than ever. Muscle is metabolically active. Much more so than fat. When dieting, your body wants to be as efficient as possible... meaning it doesn't want to be burning a lot of excess energy. Therefore, shedding excess muscle is a real possibility. One of the primary ways we have to stave off this loss is heavy resistance training. The last thing you want to be doing is cutting your loads way down.0 -
Oh, whoops! I should clarify a bit more--I do strength training year round (along with minimal 30 min or so cardio sessions) 5-6 times a week with a pattern of lower weight/more reps for a few weeks, and then the lifting-to-fatigue pyramid increasing weight as I go for about a week, then back to my lower weight/more reps...... but for bulking I switch it up to heavier weights/less reps to push muscle growth for about 4 weeks at a time....just not sure I'm doing things "right" or "long enough"...I know everyone is different, but I thought you might have some general guidelines?
The "what's long enough" question is something I've wondered about too. I've had people on this site (people who I generally think know what they are talking about) tell me that 6 weeks isn't really long enough to accomplish much during a bulk. I can see their point, but by the same token, any gains are good gains, so...
As a triathlete, my summers are almost exclusively cardio. Once my race season is over, I get back in the gym and do bulk/cuts cycles through the winter and into the spring. The timing of them is based largely on convenience/scheduling but also my ability to fit into my clothes - my bulk stops when I can't button my pants any longer, regardless of "time".
My plan for this winter is as follows:
First, goals...
1) Let's not kid ourselves... vanity/ego is a big part of this, so let's get it out of the way right now - I want to look good, plain and simple.
2) I still want to hit 165lbs @ 10% BF. I doubt that will be my final goal, and I feel like I've gotten pretty close this summer (haven't been tested since spring), but I need to hit that mark as a starting point.
3) I want to see "significant" gains in my lifts. Since I won't have body composition numbers on a regular basis for motivation or as a progress indicator, I need to see my lifts increase. Not sure what's reasonable/realistic in this arena, but I'm hoping I can add 20-50lbs on each of my lifts (I'm thinking I can gain more in squats than I can in weighted pullups, but who knows)
4) At some point I should probably get back into Yoga or some other flexibility-based routine, but I'm going to ignore that for right now.
Now the plan moving forward...
Mid Aug - End of Sept (~6 weeks):
Short bulk cycle. In the past I've put on weight fairly quickly, so I want to keep the first cycle short. Plus, the timing of things works better this way.
- 2500ish cals daily (obviously high protein)
- Limited cardio
- Heavy lifting focusing on compound lifts. Ideally I'd break them down into A and B workouts, but I'm not sure if that'll be too much... have to play it by ear, but that's my starting point. Workout A (Mon/Thurs) - squats, bench, Weighted pull-ups, standing upright rows. Workout B (Tues/Fri) - deads, shoulder press, t-bar rows, weighted dips
Oct 1 - Mid Nov (~6 weeks):
Short cut cycle leading into the holidays. I know how to cut, just have to do it. I doubt I'd be able to bulk straight through and still fit in my clothes, so this is more of a quick shed in preparation for the holiday bulk than anything else.
- 1850ish cals daily (high protein)
- Cardio as I want
- Will keep lifting, though will probably go to 2-3 workouts per week (Mon/Fri or Mon/Wed/Fri), still focused on compound lifts: squats, bench, weighted pull-ups, upright rows, weighted dips, deads.
Mid Nov - Mid Feb (~12 weeks):
Full on bulk cycle. Same as previous bulk, just longer duration:
Mid Feb - May 1 (~10 weeks):
Cut to get ready for summer and traithlon/race season. Similar to previous cut cycle, though will be somewhat dependent on where I'm at at this point.
I don't see any problem with that plan. I could nitpick, but in truth, it sounds like a solid plan to me.0
