Do men really feel this way?
JanieJack
Posts: 3,831 Member
This statement from another thread got me thinking about guys over the years who have showered me with time, attention and even gifts. I thought they were just enjoying the company of a friend- much like I enjoy spending time with my friends and treating them to little gifts. The time we spent talking I enjoyed in its own right. I would be saddened to think that after mutually being friends, a man who heard my heart and also poured out some of his heart wouldn’t be satisfied with that emotional exchange but then also expect some kind of physical action as well.This is arguable the worst thing you can do to a guy, use him for emotional support, then not give him any physical action. Horrible.
Since the guys in question weren’t “more than friends” it never occurred to me that they might feel like I owed them any more appreciation than enjoying our time spent together.
What do you all think?
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This may come of as blunt but, I'm open to sleeping with every single one of my female friends. I wouldn't ever rule that out, just cause the label "friend" is there.
I have never done something and expected to get some action in return though. Do you think they possibly thought your friendship moved to a new level being you shared so much emotion?? and then were disappointed nothing came of it??0 -
Hmmmm . I dont know about this.
One of my boys and I were talking yesterday and he said something along the lines of all women cheat.. I looked at him and was like hey I never cheated. He said I know you havent but your not a girl your a really awesome dude with tits lol.... Now he does want to date my sister so maybe that excludes him. But we have know each other for more than 10 yrs and hes family. We ***** moan and fight about ****. We vent to each other and buy each other presents. But thats cause hes family0 -
Men exchange emotional support for physical intimacy. Women exchange physical intimacy for emotional support. If you know a guy likes you romantically and you keep him around just for the conversation (basically friend-zoned), then it is flat out wrong and not fair to the man. Those kind of women make my stomach turn.
Now if you are actually friends, meaning neither of you want anything romantic with each other, than all bets are off and you can do whatever you want.0 -
I have never done something and expected to get some action in return though. Do you think they possibly thought your friendship moved to a new level being you shared so much emotion?? and then were disappointed nothing came of it??
I don't know- the 3 guys I'm thinking about were all friends. We may have dated at one point, but we were firmly in the friendzone, talking about each other's love lives and things like that. A part of me wonders if I pushed the guys away by not offering up at least some action. That's not my style, so if that's what happened they wouldn’t have been right for me. But I'm still curious. Unfortunately, 2 of them I’m no longer on speaking terms with, and I think the last guy would be too uncomfortable if I asked him.0 -
Men exchange emotional support for physical intimacy. Women exchange physical intimacy for emotional support. If you know a guy likes you romantically and you keep him around just for the conversation (basically friend-zoned), then it is flat out wrong and not fair to the man. Those kind of women make my stomach turn.
Now if you are actually friends, meaning neither of you want anything romantic with each other, than all bets are off and you can do whatever you want.
There's always exceptions to the case, but for the most part it is. Women connect on an emotional level and men on a physical level.0 -
I'm realizing, yes, they feel this way more than I had ever realized.
I had a difficult early summer break up, a male friend swooped in to support and rescue, etc. and then he asked for a relationship. I didn't ask him for the emotional support, but I took it when it was offered, so I feel some mixed guilt because I sort of knew it was a quid pro quo situation.0 -
Men exchange emotional support for physical intimacy. Women exchange physical intimacy for emotional support. If you know a guy likes you romantically and you keep him around just for the conversation (basically friend-zoned), then it is flat out wrong and not fair to the man. Those kind of women make my stomach turn.
I agree with you on this, Mike, at a basic level. So that leads me to ask, "What exactly are the guys on MFP who suppport the women of MFP expecting to get out of the deal?! " There are a lot of hours of support put in on this website....:laugh:0 -
I'm realizing, yes, they feel this way more than I had ever realized.
I had a difficult early summer break up, a male friend swooped in to support and rescue, etc. and then he asked for a relationship. I didn't ask him for the emotional support, but I took it when it was offered, so I feel some mixed guilt because I sort of knew it was a quid pro quo situation.
You never asked for it, but you still used him as an emotional crutch, no?
Put the shoe on the other foot for a second. What if a guy, whom you were crazy about, just broke up with his girlfriend. You started flirting and you two ended up shacking up a few times. Then a few days later he says, "thanks for the fun time, but all you were was a rebound hookup and I don't want anything to do with you anymore." Wouldn't you be a little hurt?0 -
This unfortunately is the story of my life. I become romantically interested in women, and then bend over backwards to make them happy. Even after I know it won't go anywhere romantically I still continue hoping "they will come to their senses".
I get angry at both myself for getting in that situation, and also mad at the women for continuing to "use" me even though I am just as guilty as they are. It's a really tough place for a guy to be.
It's not the worst thing you can do to a guy, but it does suck.
Personally, I need to learn how to stop being a support system in a way that puts me in a bad position emotionally while subjecting myself to repeated rejection. It does nothing for the self esteem.0 -
This unfortunately is the story of my life. I become romantically interested in women, and then bend over backwards to make them happy. Even after I know it won't go anywhere romantically I still continue hoping "they will come to their senses".
This is so beyond creepy to me.
I have several platonic guy friends and though I'm sure if I walked out of the bathroom naked saying "let's ****" they'd be down, that doesn't mean we're not friends. It means that we are animals with instincts and fun bits.
On that note if I went to one of the aforementioned guy friends because I was having an emotional issue that I needed advice on and at the end he turned around and said "let's ****" I would be utterly livid. The point of our friendship is NOT sexual and it's very CLEARLY not sexual.
I don't go around expecting all guys to be my emotional support, my feelings are not something I trust someone with lightly so if I found out that after all this time "he" was waiting around for me to give up and settle on him or, as it's so interestingly worded, "come to my senses" that would be betrayal. It means that he never cared about my feelings, he never listened and shared and helped because he wanted to be a good friend and because he saw me as a good friend. It would mean that everything was based on a lie and all that mattered was my poontang and potential access to it.
So I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that that is the worst thing I could possibly do to a man. I am not USING him (him is arbitrary in this context) any more than I USE any other person I count on, trust and love. That is what friends, real friends, do for each other. That is the basis and entirety of the relationship. I have a different type of relationship with people that I have sex with.
There is something to be said for girls that intentionally use a guy because they know he's interested in them and it is a horrible thing to do to someone. Just like it's horrible for a guy to just use a girl for sex because he knows she likes him and is willing. Hell, you could switch that up and I'm sure everyone would be upset all over again! Using someone is hurtful to all genders not just men.0 -
This may come of as blunt but, I'm open to sleeping with every single one of my female friends. I wouldn't ever rule that out, just cause the label "friend" is there.
* Internet - High - Five *0 -
I'm blunt and direct with my guy friends. Many have told me straight out they would sleep with me if given the chance. If there is absolutely no chance that will ever happen, then I tell them that before I'll accept that person's help and support. I would never accept help from someone if there was a chance they were hoping for something in return. I had a guy do that to me once and it hurt like h*** when he showed off his hot new girlfriend. I think if you can be honest and direct then it's easier to remain friends with members of the opposite sex.0
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This unfortunately is the story of my life. I become romantically interested in women, and then bend over backwards to make them happy. Even after I know it won't go anywhere romantically I still continue hoping "they will come to their senses".
This is so beyond creepy to me.
I have several platonic guy friends and though I'm sure if I walked out of the bathroom naked saying "let's ****" they'd be down, that doesn't mean we're not friends. It means that we are animals with instincts and fun bits.
On that note if I went to one of the aforementioned guy friends because I was having an emotional issue that I needed advice on and at the end he turned around and said "let's ****" I would be utterly livid. The point of our friendship is NOT sexual and it's very CLEARLY not sexual.
I don't go around expecting all guys to be my emotional support, my feelings are not something I trust someone with lightly so if I found out that after all this time "he" was waiting around for me to give up and settle on him or, as it's so interestingly worded, "come to my senses" that would be betrayal. It means that he never cared about my feelings, he never listened and shared and helped because he wanted to be a good friend and because he saw me as a good friend. It would mean that everything was based on a lie and all that mattered was my poontang and potential access to it.
So I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that that is the worst thing I could possibly do to a man. I am not USING him (him is arbitrary in this context) any more than I USE any other person I count on, trust and love. That is what friends, real friends, do for each other. That is the basis and entirety of the relationship. I have a different type of relationship with people that I have sex with.
There is something to be said for girls that intentionally use a guy because they know he's interested in them and it is a horrible thing to do to someone. Just like it's horrible for a guy to just use a girl for sex because he knows she likes him and is willing. Hell, you could switch that up and I'm sure everyone would be upset all over again! Using someone is hurtful to all genders not just men.
Thanks for calling me creepy for being a nice guy and actively working to try to show someone that I'm worth their time.
You rock! :flowerforyou:0 -
Men exchange emotional support for physical intimacy. Women exchange physical intimacy for emotional support. If you know a guy likes you romantically and you keep him around just for the conversation (basically friend-zoned), then it is flat out wrong and not fair to the man. Those kind of women make my stomach turn.
I agree with you on this, Mike, at a basic level. So that leads me to ask, "What exactly are the guys on MFP who support the women of MFP expecting to get out of the deal?! " There are a lot of hours of support put in on this website....:laugh:
There’s always the ego boost out of giving accepted advice, lol. I love it when I post a question someone asked me and you all answer it the same way I would. Stereotypically speaking, men pursue ego boosts in this way more than women.0 -
Even after I know it won't go anywhere romantically I still continue hoping "they will come to their senses".
This is so beyond creepy to me.
Thanks for calling me creepy for being a nice guy and actively working to try to show someone that I'm worth their time.
Jax, I think creepy is too strong a word… but I would, personally, be wary of a man who continued trying to win the romantic affection of women who clearly weren’t interested. It points to either low self esteem or an unyielding ego. He either needs this challenge to feel good about himself or he feels so bad about himself he won’t ever strike out into a “real” relationship.
Some women *do* change their minds and fall for a man who was originally in the friend zone. Unfortunately, I’ve noticed that the guys who do this are usually not right for the women they pine away for, and worse, they are often taken advantage of by these women. This hurts the good women friends of this guy who really do like the man but are deemed “unworthy” by him. After all, if she really liked him there must be something wrong with her. Hence his attraction to the always unattainable. May not be true in your life, but just so you know how an outside observer sees it.0 -
This unfortunately is the story of my life. I become romantically interested in women, and then bend over backwards to make them happy. Even after I know it won't go anywhere romantically I still continue hoping "they will come to their senses".
This is so beyond creepy to me.
I have several platonic guy friends and though I'm sure if I walked out of the bathroom naked saying "let's ****" they'd be down, that doesn't mean we're not friends. It means that we are animals with instincts and fun bits.
On that note if I went to one of the aforementioned guy friends because I was having an emotional issue that I needed advice on and at the end he turned around and said "let's ****" I would be utterly livid. The point of our friendship is NOT sexual and it's very CLEARLY not sexual.
I don't go around expecting all guys to be my emotional support, my feelings are not something I trust someone with lightly so if I found out that after all this time "he" was waiting around for me to give up and settle on him or, as it's so interestingly worded, "come to my senses" that would be betrayal. It means that he never cared about my feelings, he never listened and shared and helped because he wanted to be a good friend and because he saw me as a good friend. It would mean that everything was based on a lie and all that mattered was my poontang and potential access to it.
So I disagree wholeheartedly with the idea that that is the worst thing I could possibly do to a man. I am not USING him (him is arbitrary in this context) any more than I USE any other person I count on, trust and love. That is what friends, real friends, do for each other. That is the basis and entirety of the relationship. I have a different type of relationship with people that I have sex with.
There is something to be said for girls that intentionally use a guy because they know he's interested in them and it is a horrible thing to do to someone. Just like it's horrible for a guy to just use a girl for sex because he knows she likes him and is willing. Hell, you could switch that up and I'm sure everyone would be upset all over again! Using someone is hurtful to all genders not just men.
Thanks for calling me creepy for being a nice guy and actively working to try to show someone that I'm worth their time.
You rock! :flowerforyou:
I didn't say you were creepy, I was saying that mentality is creepy - you yourself acknowledged that it's not a positive thing.
Also, it isn't nice for you to have an agenda like that. It's deceptive and dishonest. You are playing at being friends when you really don't have an interest in being friends, you want more and you aren't being open about it. It's underhanded and it's wrong.
Even now you aren't being honest with me. Instead of coming out and addressing that you felt insulted so I could have an opportunity to clarify, you turned passive aggressive, played at the "nice guy" with a cute little emoticon and for what? Did it make you feel good? Did you hope I would simply take back everything and "come to my senses" about how very very wrong I am?
Allow me to preemptively say, I don't think you're a bad dude. I'm not angry at you. I don't think you're skeezy and a creep. I think that, like many of us here on MFP (and please please do not see this as an insult), you have low self-esteem and that one of the symptoms of that is the attitude you take toward being the nice guy in the hopes that one of the girls you pine after will suddenly realize how awesome you are. But in the meantime my ultimate point for the entirety of the thread, is literally that as much as it hurts you to suffer, the girl is not being a "user" for being friends with a guy and not having sex with him.0 -
Men exchange emotional support for physical intimacy. Women exchange physical intimacy for emotional support. If you know a guy likes you romantically and you keep him around just for the conversation (basically friend-zoned), then it is flat out wrong and not fair to the man. Those kind of women make my stomach turn.
I agree with you on this, Mike, at a basic level. So that leads me to ask, "What exactly are the guys on MFP who support the women of MFP expecting to get out of the deal?! " There are a lot of hours of support put in on this website....:laugh:
My first instinct is to point out that, just like in real life the bulk of support has typically gone to the sexier/spicier/more willing to put out ladies (until those ladies get solid bfs) so it would not surprise me if, on a subconscious (if not conscious) level there is some hope that all that emotional support will pay off at the right time and right moment.
But then I get a lot of support too, and I'm none of those things. Still, I think back to the days where certain vivacious ladies (until they got bfs and some disappeared) had tons of men chiming in on their discussions while other ladies (asking almost the same question) got jumped on and left the group.
This is not a judgment on men. After all, I know plenty of women who provide emotional and/or domestic support for male "friends" hoping those guys will wake up one day and discover that she's the one.0 -
This is arguable the worst thing you can do to a guy, use him for emotional support, then not give him any physical action. Horrible.
I think the context in which this statement was made is very important to this discussion. If I recall correctly, you asked about a woman who "comforted" men who were going through a break up or other difficult time and then would become annoyed or offended because they had the nerve to hit on her. I think that is appalling behavior on the woman's part.
The woman in question was actively pursuing men who were emotionally vulnerable and encouraging them to discuss their vulnerabilities as if she was a emotional support these men could rely on. For men, this is particularly difficult. It is showing weakness and causes feelings of being less of a man. The natural instinct is to "regain your manhood." The easiest way to do that is through sexual conquest.
Additionally, there is the aspect that emotional intimacy and physical intimacy often go hand in hand and that the combination of the two increases the sense of security and bond between the parties. I think this is true for both men and women. The probability of seeking a sexual connection based on a strong emotional connection is part of the reason that it is unethical for counselors and/or psychologists to enter into relationships with patients. I believe that both male and female patients are vulnerable to such relationships. I do not know which gender would be more vulnerable.
In the context of every day life, i do not agree that this is the worst thing you can do to a guy. That is, if a woman is going through a tough time and a guy offers unsolicited support, the woman shouldn't have to question his motives. If the guy had a hidden intent, that is his problem. I don't feel sorry for him and I don't have any ill will towards the woman who was the target of his agenda. It's the same principle as a woman who thinks she can get a relationship by offering sex. When she is kicked to the curb because the guy finds a girl who he really likes for more than scratching an itch, I don't feel sorry for her either.0 -
I have an ironic variation on all of this.... I had a Best Friend for YEARS who was like a brother to me, who NEVER gave any sign that he was the slightest bit interested in being anything more than a brother. We were REALLY close, even after he moved away to D.C. a while ago. We ALWAYS discussed our other romantic relationships with each other - always. Then suddenly this past summer,I stopped hearing from him. I received word from a mutual friend that Yusef had been living in Brooklyn two stops away on the subway for a couple of weeks & hadn't told me. Then I looked on FB & found out that he had unfriended me.
When I confronted him with it, he wrote me an email that said he would have "given his right arm to be with a woman like me." And when I was talking with him over recent months about someone I was extremely interested in, he just "couldn't take it any more" (this is after about 25 years) and he had to cut me off.
Meanwhile, and this is why things are so ironic, the "issues" I was having with the man I am so attracted to are turning out to stem from HIS perception (totally WRONG) that I have FriendZoned him! How nutty is this????
B & I are slowly working things out & I am cautiously optimistic, but I truly miss the support I THOUGHT I was getting all those long years from a person I THOUGHT was my dear friend and brother....
Anyway.
Thanks to al of you for shedding some light on my own cluelessness....0 -
In the context of every day life, i do not agree that this is the worst thing you can do to a guy. That is, if a woman is going through a tough time and a guy offers unsolicited support, the woman shouldn't have to question his motives. If the guy had a hidden intent, that is his problem. I don't feel sorry for him and I don't have any ill will towards the woman who was the target of his agenda. It's the same principle as a woman who thinks she can get a relationship by offering sex. When she is kicked to the curb because the guy finds a girl who he really likes for more than scratching an itch, I don't feel sorry for her either.
This. Perfect. Succinct. True. I don't believe friendships need asterisks or disclaimers0 -
There is too much missing from the context of the statement...is there a dating routine going on or just an interaction.
If the former then probably yes,a guy will grow tired of it (assuming no direct conversation regarding her desire for whatever reasons to not be intimate until married) and it would sort of make her a user.
Worst thing she could do?...meh,not really.
If just two people as friends then he is wrong to think it,would make him either a user,a predator or foolish.0 -
I think the context in which this statement was made is very important to this discussion. If I recall correctly, you asked about a woman who "comforted" men who were going through a break up or other difficult time and then would become annoyed or offended because they had the nerve to hit on her. I think that is appalling behavior on the woman's part.The woman in question was actively pursuing men who were emotionally vulnerable and encouraging them to discuss their vulnerabilities as if she was a emotional support these men could rely on. For men, this is particularly difficult. It is showing weakness and causes feelings of being less of a man. The natural instinct is to "regain your manhood." The easiest way to do that is through sexual conquest.If a woman is going through a tough time and a guy offers unsolicited support, the woman shouldn't have to question his motives. If the guy had a hidden intent, that is his problem. I don't feel sorry for him and I don't have any ill will towards the woman who was the target of his agenda
So glad to see you posting Dave! Whether it’s the insightful stuff or the sarcastic stuff, you’re always great to read!0 -
This is arguable the worst thing you can do to a guy, use him for emotional support, then not give him any physical action. Horrible.
I think the context in which this statement was made is very important to this discussion. If I recall correctly, you asked about a woman who "comforted" men who were going through a break up or other difficult time and then would become annoyed or offended because they had the nerve to hit on her. I think that is appalling behavior on the woman's part.
The woman in question was actively pursuing men who were emotionally vulnerable and encouraging them to discuss their vulnerabilities as if she was a emotional support these men could rely on. For men, this is particularly difficult. It is showing weakness and causes feelings of being less of a man. The natural instinct is to "regain your manhood." The easiest way to do that is through sexual conquest.
Additionally, there is the aspect that emotional intimacy and physical intimacy often go hand in hand and that the combination of the two increases the sense of security and bond between the parties. I think this is true for both men and women. The probability of seeking a sexual connection based on a strong emotional connection is part of the reason that it is unethical for counselors and/or psychologists to enter into relationships with patients. I believe that both male and female patients are vulnerable to such relationships. I do not know which gender would be more vulnerable.
In the context of every day life, i do not agree that this is the worst thing you can do to a guy. That is, if a woman is going through a tough time and a guy offers unsolicited support, the woman shouldn't have to question his motives. If the guy had a hidden intent, that is his problem. I don't feel sorry for him and I don't have any ill will towards the woman who was the target of his agenda. It's the same principle as a woman who thinks she can get a relationship by offering sex. When she is kicked to the curb because the guy finds a girl who he really likes for more than scratching an itch, I don't feel sorry for her either.
This^^^ You've covered all bases :flowerforyou:
Reading through the thread I had this crazy scenario in my head of every woman who asked for a guys help/opinion/support having to shag him in thanks and gratitude!!! :noway: :laugh:
It just says to me that guys that are friend zoned should speak up and be clear about their intentions/expectations. Women dont ever feel the need to thank a guy physically. Ever! If they do, it's just as underhand as the guy expecting it in return. IE you are both after something entirely different to what's being discussed.0 -
This may come of as blunt but, I'm open to sleeping with every single one of my female friends. I wouldn't ever rule that out, just cause the label "friend" is there.
* Internet - High - Five *
Man *kitten*!! :laugh: :bigsmile: :flowerforyou:0 -
Hi Pixie - YES! It would be a really good idea for a man to be honest with a woman from the start. In my case, I thought it was ME who was in the friendzone because he kept saying "I don't think we want the same thing - what do YOU want?" So I thought HE was trying to blow ME off and it wasn't until a WHOLE lot of time & misunderstanding that we are only NOW able to even START to clean this up. If he had stated his intentions clearly from the beginning, we wouldn't have been so confused and resentful toward each other.0
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I'm realizing, yes, they feel this way more than I had ever realized.
I had a difficult early summer break up, a male friend swooped in to support and rescue, etc. and then he asked for a relationship. I didn't ask him for the emotional support, but I took it when it was offered, so I feel some mixed guilt because I sort of knew it was a quid pro quo situation.
You never asked for it, but you still used him as an emotional crutch, no?
Put the shoe on the other foot for a second. What if a guy, whom you were crazy about, just broke up with his girlfriend. You started flirting and you two ended up shacking up a few times. Then a few days later he says, "thanks for the fun time, but all you were was a rebound hookup and I don't want anything to do with you anymore." Wouldn't you be a little hurt?
I agree with your point, but I also feel like his actions were kind of predatory knowing my emotional state. I said I felt some mixed guilt- not that I just took his support and spit on him afterward. He knows me well enough to realize that I wouldn't jump directly from a year and half long relationship into his arms. While it might seem like a nice crack in the friendship that allows a romantic door to open, I think it's totally crappy to try to wrangle a friend who is a vulnerable mess.
Also, I've supported him in really big ways (helped move his parents across the country) so maybe I was an idiot for not expecting something in return for that? Not trying to be a martyr, though.0 -
If you know a guy likes you romantically and you keep him around just for the conversation (basically friend-zoned), then it is flat out wrong and not fair to the man. Those kind of women make my stomach turn.
I agree, and I would add that if she keeps him around for conversation and tries to lead him on, it's not fair. But men do this as well, it is not just women.0 -
If you know a guy likes you romantically and you keep him around just for the conversation (basically friend-zoned), then it is flat out wrong and not fair to the man. Those kind of women make my stomach turn.
I agree, and I would add that if she keeps him around for conversation and tries to lead him on, it's not fair. But men do this as well, it is not just women.
I kind of disagree with that. If he's open and honest about his feelings (I love you!) and she's open and honest in turn (I don't feel that way about you) then from that point on it's clear and in the open. If she isn't uncomfortable around him after that and still sees him as a friend she's not using him, but she can make decisions about maybe not changing her clothes in front of him anymore with the new knowledge. It's also his decision to hang out with her or not. If he decides it's better to have her as a friend than not have her in his life at all, then as long as he can keep being a friend, why not? If he can't then that's fine too.
My biggest thing is honesty. As long as people are open and communicative then well informed decisions can be made by all parties.0 -
I kind of disagree with that. If he's open and honest about his feelings (I love you!) and she's open and honest in turn (I don't feel that way about you) then from that point on it's clear and in the open.
Oh I agree completely. My point was knowing that he likes you without him coming right out and saying it, so you use him for that attention and perhaps leading him on.0 -
Yes - men also lead women on! I know two musicians in particular who keep an entire HERD of female admirers who are NOT their lovers but give a kind of maternal support. the women often find some kind of "excuse" to be near them - offer them gigs or recording opportunities or even become their students. The guys apparently need the wide-eyed admiration and the women are too frightened to declare their true feelings because they know they will be rejected. I have thought in the past that the men KNEW what they were doing, but after talking with them about it, I now think they are so needy in their own ways, that they just do not understand what they are doing to lead on the "groupies."0
This discussion has been closed.