Is EM2WL just an excuse for "gluttony"?
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MessyLittlePanda
Posts: 213 Member
I've heard it said that people who don't want to do low calorie diets and try and find "ways of eating more" simply lack willpower and appetite control, or that we criticise low calorie diets because we want to feel better about our own gluttony.
One of the reasons EM2WL works for me is because I do like good food, and cooking, and eating with friends etc. I do also enjoy sports and exercise so it allows me to train a lot without getting tired and drained. But psychologically I know I was attracted to it because I knew I would not have to restrict food so much, be hungry a lot, or "ban" certain foods from my diet. So in a way, I guess I didn't want to face some of the issues people have to deal with when low calorie dieting, and in a way I didn't want to have to test my self control to that extent. My brushes with low calorie diets were always short lived, I would get hungry, bad tempered, and tired pretty quickly. I am told that those things are short lived, by my friends who do the low calorie lifestyle, and that your body adapts. But I didn't really WANT my body to adapt to that. I didn't want to be stuck counting calories the rest of my life and having to eat that little just to maintain my weight.
I don't think I lack discipline in general, and nor does anyone in here, because most of us train. Training requires self discipline and control, it requires making yourself go out of that door when you would rather veg in front of the telly. For me it's not just the training itself, it's the self discipline to wash and dry my kit regularly so I have things ready, to pack my gym bag the night before, and sometimes to give up nights out, alcohol, seeing my friends or staying up late because I am training for an event. I could equally say that people who just slash their calories and don't bother to exercise are lazy, or lack discipline because they won't commit to an exercise routine.
I don't know....I just never thought until I started on here that food, what you eat, your attitude to it and whether you like food, think it's the enemy, or are just not bothered about it, could be so political!
EM2WL has worked for me anyways, so I'm not about to stop doing it, even if to some people they think it's gluttony or laziness or whatever. I only feel that I need sufficient appetite control to stop me from eating more than what I need to do what I do - I don't see what it would do for me to try and do otherwise, other than make me irritable and tired.
If that makes me a glutton, so be it!
One of the reasons EM2WL works for me is because I do like good food, and cooking, and eating with friends etc. I do also enjoy sports and exercise so it allows me to train a lot without getting tired and drained. But psychologically I know I was attracted to it because I knew I would not have to restrict food so much, be hungry a lot, or "ban" certain foods from my diet. So in a way, I guess I didn't want to face some of the issues people have to deal with when low calorie dieting, and in a way I didn't want to have to test my self control to that extent. My brushes with low calorie diets were always short lived, I would get hungry, bad tempered, and tired pretty quickly. I am told that those things are short lived, by my friends who do the low calorie lifestyle, and that your body adapts. But I didn't really WANT my body to adapt to that. I didn't want to be stuck counting calories the rest of my life and having to eat that little just to maintain my weight.
I don't think I lack discipline in general, and nor does anyone in here, because most of us train. Training requires self discipline and control, it requires making yourself go out of that door when you would rather veg in front of the telly. For me it's not just the training itself, it's the self discipline to wash and dry my kit regularly so I have things ready, to pack my gym bag the night before, and sometimes to give up nights out, alcohol, seeing my friends or staying up late because I am training for an event. I could equally say that people who just slash their calories and don't bother to exercise are lazy, or lack discipline because they won't commit to an exercise routine.
I don't know....I just never thought until I started on here that food, what you eat, your attitude to it and whether you like food, think it's the enemy, or are just not bothered about it, could be so political!
EM2WL has worked for me anyways, so I'm not about to stop doing it, even if to some people they think it's gluttony or laziness or whatever. I only feel that I need sufficient appetite control to stop me from eating more than what I need to do what I do - I don't see what it would do for me to try and do otherwise, other than make me irritable and tired.
If that makes me a glutton, so be it!
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I've heard it said that people who don't want to do low calorie diets and try and find "ways of eating more" simply lack willpower and appetite control, or that we criticise low calorie diets because we want to feel better about our own gluttony.
I admit I love food and I am grateful for now being able to eat more. However I certianly do not consider this "gluttony". Having hated my body for my entire adult life, having been trying to survive on and off on 1000 calories or less over the years, being constantly hungry and feeling guilty whenever I put something into my mouth - these are the things I'm starting to overcome. I'm not doing it so I can gorge on food, I'm doing it because I want to build a healthy 'normal' relationship with food and to learn to love my body and mind as a whole. It's still a work in progress but EM2WL has completely turned around my mentality regarding food and exercise.0 -
lol!
Someone had just asked me that the other day which sparked this ramble
on my newsfeed a few days ago (everything sparks a ramble :ohwell:) :
" Someone asked the other day why I want to be able to eat so much, lol. So I should clarify...
It's not just to be gluttonous ...ok, maybe a little, lol...but more so because I know how much our metabolisms slow with age, weight goes up, muscle decreases, and we have to eat LESS just to accomplish the same results. Everything that I do, is to DEFY that trend. So my aim is build as much muscle, and eat as much food as I can *now*, so that when I get to the age where my peers are hardly eating, getting "softer," and at higher risk for bone/muscle loss - I can still enjoy my life and have enough muscle to have as much independence as possible. This is very important to me, as I watch my grandparents age and lose all independence. I am a very "future" focused person, in case that isn't obvious, lol...
I just grew up originally thinking (as did my grandparents) that much of what we deal with with aging is inevitable. While some of it may be - and we will never be immortal- studies are proving BY FAR that many of what we've attributed to "the effects of aging" over the years, is simply the effects of being sedentary. I WISH my grandparents only had known that they needed only to eat a bit more, move a but more, and lift a little weights. I wish they'd even try a little now. I watched them give up at the first sign of "aging" almost 20yrs ago! I mean, if you still have to be here, why not try to make it the best it can be? My grandpa plopped on the couch in his late 50s & basically said "that's a wrap, I'm too old" & has stayed there WELL into his 70s. Grandma has followed his lead & she's still in her 60s. It makes me so sad. I don't expect them to be flipping cartwheels or nothing, but they've incurred more muscle/bone loss since they STOPPED moving/eating, than they had up until that point.
I didn't think they had a choice, but now that I devour studies on aging, I hurt knowing what they don't know... I'm not afraid to leave this earth, but I don't want my grandkids to watch me "give up" on life 20, 30, 50 years before my time.
But I do know that a lot of people feel like if they are comfortable with their cals *now* then why bother? You know? w/o the long term aspect in mind, it kinda seem pointless to some people to raise their cals if they feel "satisfied" now. Only problem is that what satisfies me now, may be too much 10yrs from now. Better safe than sorry, to get those cals at a decent level now, lol.
..the hardest part, not being able to say anything. I don't want to be disrespectful, so I don't. But all of the kids/grandkids talk about how much it hurts to see Papa just decide that he's "done" and how he always references his mortality when we are with him. Its very depressing "
~Kiki0 -
You make a good point about being future focused Kiki - it's not all about the now and it's not all about just wanting to eat lots of food.
I watched my obese grandmother also give up on life, and become very bitter. She has very little quality of life now. Her arthritis and health problems are now severely restrictive for her. If she had lost weight and become healthy in her 50's, as she was advised to do to stop her problems from getting worse, she might be a lot more active and healthier and in less pain now. But she didn't want to lose weight or do the exercise she was prescribed (walking, swimming, stretching and light weights).
Her example is one of the reasons I want to control my weight, and also one of the reasons I want to be fit and active for as long as possible. I met a lady in her sixties who was training for an Ironman tri a couple of months back, and I thought "wow, that's how I want to spend my old age" - not confined to a chair and dependent on others for everything.0 -
I never understand how people can think eating at a smaller deficit is gluttony.
Eating above maintenance, maybe but we are still at a deficit or maintenance here (aside from those who are bulking).
People who make those comments about gluttony have not taken the time to read what EM2WL is about.0 -
Spot on Heidiho.
I think a lot of people don't quite understand how much fuelling their body needs, I know I didn't. Before starting this journey I would have thought the amount in currently eating would be far more than I need.
As you pointed out, it's still below requirements, just a sensible amount rather than the ridiculous.0 -
Having yo yo dieted for 30 years if " Eating more" actually helps change the 30 year trend of getting to goal but only being able to stay there for a year ( or 5 minutes) then it is worth it. Stay tuned!0
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I don't know, I just figured if eating 1200 calories didn't allow me to lose any weight or improve my fitness level, I may as well try eating more and see where that gets me. Even if I don't lose anything, at least I am getting the same result while enjoying my food and not being hungry all of the time.0
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I get comments like that every once in awhile too, and they kind of baffle me.
I'm really short and working on the last few lbs, so my cut value is around 1700-1800. This is 500kcal more than what MFP recommended, but when I account for exercise, it ends up being only about 200 more (except when I do my long runs).
I definitely still need to watch what I eat, but the 200-500 give me some wiggle room. This way I can make sure that I don't eschew healthy fats, I am not grumpy, and I can fit in treats here and there. When I took my TDEE breaks between cuts I did not gain or lose, so I am doing something right. Gluttony would be eating 10000 kcal or junk (and even then, who am I to judge, maybe somebody does need 10k of junk for their activity level).
Since I upped my calories, I have been able to increase my deadlift weight by 50 lbs in less than 2 months (after stalling out for 2 months), and I have dropped 2 sizes. Sure, I lose on the scale very slowly, but it's consistent. I look and feel fit and healthy, and I can actively participate in life. If not losing my hair and having the energy to get through the day without passing out is gluttony, then call me a glutton.0 -
IGluttony would be eating 10000 kcal or junk (and even then, who am I to judge, maybe somebody does need 10k of junk for their activity level).
When in training Michael Phelps used to plow through 12,000 calories a day! ;-)0 -
How is eating the right amount of food to fuel my body and still lose weight being the least bit "gluttonous?"
If I just wanted an excuse to eat more, I'd declare every day a holiday. And I wouldn't get results.0 -
"Is Eat More to WEIGH LESS just an excuse for "gluttony"?"
Really?
What gluttonous person loses weight?
Gluttony is greedy, overconsumption of something when unnecessary for any practical purpose. This is not what EM2WL is about at all. The practice involves eating RIGHT and eating ENOUGH to promote HEALTHY weight loss. It exists to combat the unnecessary and unhealthy short-term dieting practices of severe caloric restriction which most diet programs, television shows, applications, etc.. promote as though it's the only way.
There is a big difference between losing weight, and losing fat. Losing weight can entail losing fat, water, muscle mass, bone mass, etc.. I could chop off my arm and lose a good chunk of weight and fit into my BMI. This isn't healthy. People need to understand the difference between losing weight and losing fat - it's the difference between being unhealthy and being healthy.
Gluttony gets us to where we start, dieting can get us to just lose 'weight', but EM2WL gets you to lose weight and build back a better, stronger, healthier body. EM2WL focuses on 'more is less' not 'less is more'. More food means more nutrients, more calories means a strong metabolism, more exercise means more muscle mass and a stronger, fitter body (where calorie restricted diets inevitably ruin the metabolism and catabolizes its own muscle and other tissues). You cannot build something new and wonderful without the correct building blocks and enough of them, and though it may take longer to get to the same result, EM2WL avoids (and even repairs) plateaus that traditional calorie-restricted diets create.
We are what we eat. If you eat an excess, you will become excessive. If you eat to fuel and nurture your body, then you are by no means a glutton.0 -
"Is Eat More to WEIGH LESS just an excuse for "gluttony"?"
Really?
What gluttonous person loses weight?
Gluttony is greedy, overconsumption of something when unnecessary for any practical purpose. This is not what EM2WL is about at all. The practice involves eating RIGHT and eating ENOUGH to promote HEALTHY weight loss. It exists to combat the unnecessary and unhealthy short-term dieting practices of severe caloric restriction which most diet programs, television shows, applications, etc.. promote as though it's the only way.
There is a big difference between losing weight, and losing fat. Losing weight can entail losing fat, water, muscle mass, bone mass, etc.. I could chop off my arm and lose a good chunk of weight and fit into my BMI. This isn't healthy. People need to understand the difference between losing weight and losing fat - it's the difference between being unhealthy and being healthy.
Gluttony gets us to where we start, dieting can get us to just lose 'weight', but EM2WL gets you to lose weight and build back a better, stronger, healthier body. EM2WL focuses on 'more is less' not 'less is more'. More food means more nutrients, more calories means a strong metabolism, more exercise means more muscle mass and a stronger, fitter body (where calorie restricted diets inevitably ruin the metabolism and catabolizes its own muscle and other tissues). You cannot build something new and wonderful without the correct building blocks and enough of them, and though it may take longer to get to the same result, EM2WL avoids (and even repairs) plateaus that traditional calorie-restricted diets create.
We are what we eat. If you eat an excess, you will become excessive. If you eat to fuel and nurture your body, then you are by no means a glutton.
Krystal for president!!!! :flowerforyou: 0 -
I think it's a sad sign. Just like the demonizing of certain foods, except in this case these people are actually demonizing the person who is eating "more," and glorifying being restrictive, even to the extreme.
Enjoying food is not bad.
Stuffing yourself far beyond what your body needs is gluttony, and that is bad for you.
Eating the proper amount of food to nourish your body is good.
It seems like it should really be quite simple.0 -
From what I Can tell most people on here are coming from VLCD. They don't stop doing those diets because they lose willpower. They stop because it didn't work! They don't start eating more because they want to (most of us are scared to death to even try) they start eating more hoping it WILL work! I can tell u I ate hardly anything and didn't lose a lb. I stopped because it wasn't working. Period.0
